way2muchcoffee

ok

ive got to have a go at this one

ive been/am in a similar situation

trust is the foundation you build a relationship on

if its not rock solid then the whole thing crumbles somewhere down the track

every lie or deceitful action chips away at this foundation

its a cumulative effect

all the little ones add up to one big one and down she comes

you can forgive abuse of trust

but that only polishes your halo - it doesnt change the other person

if you really want to spend 'forever' with someone then you must have faith they are acting in your interests as well

so

a dark night of the souls is in order

lay it all out on the table

'this is what i want - no games'

'what do you really want, honestly - no more lies'

can we get there together?

yes- ok, give it a go

no - ok, at least we know each other and maybe can remain friends

also make it clear no more deception will be tolerated

go to the temple and get this confirmed by a head monk

suggest it yourself first - if she doesnt want to, shes not genuine

make it clear that if you cant trust her, then, whats the point

openness and honest - rare commodities in the Land Of Lies [LOL]

i think family conditioning dictates the actions of many thai girls

=go and find a farang to sponsor the family and yourself=

or else your not a good daughter, youre a disgrace

if she can break from that you have a chance

if she cant - let her know your not the one to play the 'golden farang'

how will you know?

by how much is given without wanting return - the same way you play it

if the hand comes out at the end of the month - look out

thats my advice based on my experiences to date

any lessons learned - ill let you know

chok dee

Very solid advice. i couldn't have said it any better myself.

A single woman with kids isn't marketable in any country, and particularly not in Asia. I can easily imagine how an initial lie could spin quickly out of control. I say, if you really feel there is something to your relationship with this woman, then wind things back. Go slowly, rebuild the trust, and see where things go. I don't buy all this business about dark clouds hanging around forever.

Usually 5-6 hours during the week, and 7-8 hours on the weekend.

I am with the “if you don’t like it go home brigade on this one”

Reason:

I live in Ireland and pay my taxes in Ireland, part of which goes to the upkeep of tourist attractions, so in my taxes I have paid a contribution to the upkeep of a particular historic / tourist site.... well then why should I have to pay the same entry price as a visiting American tourist who has not paid anything towards the upkeep of the site?

In addition, many indeed if not most Irish people have not visited their local “sites of interest” which they have supported through their taxes, but head for far off lands to view the sites of interest in these places.

So next time think.... who paid for the roads to the site, the toilet facilities (such as they are) the gardeners and grounds men,

It was paid for by the taxes of people of the nation.

You, are just paying the normal price of entry, the Thai national has already paid part of their fee through taxes and is only paying the balance at the gate!

Have a happy and enjoy it while it lasts! For Buddhism teaches us that nothing is permanent!

Foggy

Ps. The above sounds very reasoned so let me be clear and unreasonable will the be-grudgers <deleted> off!

Except for the fact that I pay nearly 10,000 bt monthly in taxes to the Thai government for the privilege of paying tourist prices about 50% of the time at national parks.

Check the 7th or 8th Commandment (depending on your religious persuasion). Not that anyone really cares, but two-tier pricing is a form a theft in my book.

$400 per acre does seem awfully cheap. Perhaps in the middle of North Dakota somewhere?

Amphetamines are so readily available in Thailand that I wouldn't even consider bringing her here. Remember that Thai drug laws and Thai prisons are exceptionally harsh and brutal.

1) Do not send her money under any circumstances. She is a drug addict and even though she may intend to use it to move house, she is extremely likely to spend the money on drugs. It is a virtual certainty.

2) Send her an email and ask her if she is willing to enter an intensive long-term drug treatment program. If she is, then you should fly back to Oregon an assist her in getting into one.

I would recommend a program in Seattle called 'SeaDruNar'. This treatment program is harsh, but effective. It involves 6 months of intensive work therapy and behavior modification therapy, coupled with AA/NA style support meetings. During the first three to six months clients are not allowed to leave the 'house' except to go to the program's 'recycling facility' where clients work six days per week, 8 hours per day. This is followed by a 3-month period during which clients move to another house, find a real job, and slowly integrate back into society while living in a carefully monitored and controlled environment. There is a lifetime of aftercare provided if any client wishes to remain part of the community. Since the clients are working to pay their treatment expenses there are often no monetary costs involved. The program is designed to provide the life skills and support tools necessary for the recovery of 'hard-core' addicts and alcoholics. Check out this website for more information: http://www.seadrunar.org/introduction.html

I have been with my wife now for 6 years. One year ago we were legally married. On the 1st of May this year, our one year anniversary, we did the village wedding ceremony. We just got back to BKK yesterday. My wife hails from Surin and her family is on the poor end of the already poor Isaan region.

In total, including the wedding clothes for both of us, gas, rentals, hotel, and other expenses the wedding ran about 120,000 bt and lasted two and a half days, with the official ceremony being on the last one. Two pigs, 30 cases of beer, 5 cases of white whiskey, 50 kg or rice, a truckload of vegetables, sauces, oil, gifts for my brother and my two friends who came up, and various other items.

As far as sin sod is concerned we put 40,000 bt on the plate, of which 35,000 was returned to us. My wife's mother is not alive so the sin sod went to the grandmother. We topped up her 5,000 bt with most of the money given by the guests. The grandmother netted around 15,000 bt, more or less. We also put on the plate the various gold jewelry we have purchased over the years - 3 baht. My mother left me two diamond rings set in white gold when she passed on, total value of around 600k bt, so we put those on the plate as well.

Everyone gained big face. Everyone enjoyed the wedding. My wife was/is very pleased. I wanted this to be a memorable day for her especially, and that was a resounding success.

As far as financial assistance goes, we help out what we can when we can, but don't send a fixed amount up every month. My wife has a brother and sister, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc, and from time to time they need help when the inevitable emergency arises. 1000 here, 1000 there, whatever. It seldom ends up being more than 2,500 per month and some months it is nothing. Sometimes we make small loans to family members - sometimes it is even paid back! Other times not. I canceled about 10,000 bt in loans outstanding from various family members during the wedding. Once a year or so, we pitch in maybe 5,000 or 10,000 for big ticket items, family funeral. roof caved in, wall in the house sank in the mud and cracked, new water pump, etc. I would estimate that my annual contribution to her family is around 50,000 bt, more or less. This is about two thirds of one month of my teacher salary. Her family are working poor. They work 6-day weeks and earn only 6,000 bt per month which is just barely enough to live on. They are all itinerant construction workers. Sometimes there are gaps between when one job finishes and the next begins. Sometimes the bosses don't pay properly. Of course they all drink, but that is the culture. I have visited, stayed, and slept in the construction camps many times, and I can definitely say that they aren't living with any kind of extravagance - quite the opposite. They eke out their simple and harsh existence one day at a time.

I am happy with the arrangement. My wife is good at keeping the assistance at a moderate level. Over the years we have learned to tell the real emergencies from the fake ones. My wife has learned to distinguish between appropriate assistance and when people are trying to take the piss. She is the filter, and the request only comes to me if it is legitimate. Sometimes it isn't convenient financially and we have to say no. It has taken years to find this balance, but this is where we are, and it works.

We pay about 3,000 bt/month. Only one A/C unit in the bedroom which runs about 16 hrs/day. We live in a 3-story shophouse. Lights, washing machine, computer running 24/7, fans. TV or stereo running all the time, sometimes both. Refrigerator and electric cooking.

My wife went through the government sponsored one. There were no tuition costs, only books, materials, uniform, and field trips. Total costs were on the order of 6,000 to 8,000 bt/year.

Be aware that the quality of instruction is very poor, and the expectations of knowledge gained are rather high. Nobody really fails the program as long as they attend most of the classes and do all the homework. The instructors will 'help' good students pass the tests. The actual knowledge gained won't be anywhere near the equivalent of a proper M6 certification, but in the end she'll have the diploma. The diploma is what is necessary for employment.

Yes - there are adult education programs in Bangkok (and outside as well) to finish M3 (Grade 9) or M6 (Grade 12) education. My wife was unwillingly pulled out of school by her grandmother after Primary 6, to go work.

After we started dating, many years ago, she wanted to finish her high school. She attended classes once a week on Sunday, each class lasting about 4 hours. It took 2 years for her to get M3, and another 2 years to get the M6. That is the standard program. It is very inexpensive - you just pay for books, materials, and several field trips.

I have heard that if a person is highly motivated and can self-teach then you can get the same qualifications by passing competency tests in Math, Science, English, Thai Language, and Thai Social Studies (art, music, history, geography, geology, civics, etc.). These tests are not easy.

The program is called 'gor-sor-nor' abbreviated, but the true name is การศึกษานอกโรงเรียน. Bangkok is divided into regions. There is a government office for each region of BKK. When my wife started, we lived in Saphan Kwai area and were in the Chatuchak Region. The classes were held near the Mor Chit bus terminal, and the main office was on Pahol Yothin Soi 37/1.

As I recall there is an office around Ekkamai/Prakhanong and one around Sathorn/Rama III. I assume there are other offiices as well. I had my wife look around, but we can't find any phone numbers.

Isn't tipping supposed to be in recognition of good ?service.

I suppose it depends on where you are.

If you don't tip in the U.S. you are stealing money directly from the pocket of the server as he/she must pay taxes on 10% of the food and beverage bill. 10% of the bill is taxable income for the server.

So if you have a bill of $20 and tip nothing, assuming a 15% income tax rate, you have just stolen $0.30 from the waiter. Anything you tip over $0.30 goes to the waiter/waitress and is the actual tip they receive.

Here in Thailand the rules are different. Here the tip is an expectation, regardless of the quality of service, but it depends on the category of restaurant you go to.

Street vendors = no tip.

Outdoor Low-End Thai restaurants = the change leftover or maybe 20 bt

Outdoor or Indoor Medium Quality = 20 bt, and maybe the change too if it is nice place

Higher Quality = 20 bt minimum, more for very good service

Highest Quality = It's part of the bill, but you can feel free to tip more if service was excellent

There are minimum tips that are culturally acceptable. It's up to you whether to impose your values or not, but in my experience living in foreign countries it is best to follow cultural norms and expectations.

Ranya Paew - almost too horrible to believe! Truly horrible. It hurts to read about this kind of thing.

Pattaya and other tourist resorts might be an anomaly with respect to the entitlement that Thais working there might feel towards your money for average / crappy service. Whatever. If service is poor, I don't tip.

Places like Patong in Phuket however seem to have an inclusive 10% service charge mandatory in every restaurant, bar, hotel, etc. You have to pay however indifferently awful the food or service. Which is worse?

If, as you say, most restaurants in the area adopt this policy it seems you have little choice. In Pattaya only a few restaurants seem to do this and they are places where I only eat ONCE!

A tip is for exceptional service not a right, which, in the case of the added service charge probably goes to the restaurant rather than to the service staff any way!

A moderate tip is a cultural expectation. It is not for exceptional service. A somewhat larger tip is for exceptional service. If there is an added service charge there is no need to tip, unless the service is exceptional, then feel free to give a tip directly into the hand of the server.

I would agree that wages should be much higher than they presently are here. I would also agree that it is somewhat rude to ask for a tip.

I tend to agree wilko. I was horrified when my wife first described the beating. It goes against the grain of my beliefs. In the end, I just have to shrug my shoulders.

You could be right about piss-poor and untrained. There is a difference, but that difference is irrelevant.

As a teenager I worked as a waiter in a diner for a few years. I was pretty good at it. With that experience, I would never, ever, leave a 1 bt tip. It's just not right - no matter how bad the service. Piss-poor, untrained, doesn't matter. Then again, that's just my opinion - and probably the opinion of anyone else who held a similar job at some time in their life.

Word of advice: If you must leave a 1 bt tip, and that's entirely up to you, don't ever return to that restaurant. They'll piss in your soup and serve it to you with a smile.

Just take a trip into panthip when you come to BKK. You'll find many laptops in your price range. They won't be top of the line, but for most purposes they will be just fine.

Yes, it is making a point. It is saying I'm a cheap charlie. I don't have sympathy for the server, and I haven't yet figured out that the service was probably poor because the server had no training.

HP dv9000 series 17'' is a good deal for around 60,000. They even have decent graphics installed.

Isn't that about double what he said he wanted to pay?

For those who choose not to tip, or choose to leave a miserly 1 bt.

1) Pretty dang stingy in my opinion.

2) Consider the exceedingly low wage of service staff (200-250 bt per day)

3) If a mistake is made and an order needs replacement the full cost comes directly from the server's paycheck.

4) Taking a day off of work may result in a 3-day deduction in server wages

5) Restaurant food costs are normally, but not always, much lower than back home - so you're already getting good value for the money.

6) Server's work something like 60 hours per week - I'd be surly too

7) Server's don't have proper training and can't be expected to perform as you are accustomed.

8) What is 20 baht to you anyway? Will it break your bank?

9) Server's often deal with Westerners whose manners and behaviors aren't appropriate according to Thai culture and expectations.

10) Thai people tip as well - it's not just some hairbrained American thing.

The trick with motorcycle taxis is to know what the rate is supposed to be. Do not discuss the rate before the trip. When you get to the destination give him what you know is the correct price and walk away. Nine times out of ten nothing will be said, just a fair exchange.

It's even worse for than that for waiters in the U.S. The total sales are tallied for each waiter/waitress at the end of each shift. It is expected that the server has received a tip of a minimum of 10%. Tips are taxable income. Thus 10% of the daily sales of servers are counted as taxable income and must be reported to the IRS. It is up to the restaurant management to handle this bookkeeping. It's crazy, but true.

Fair point I guess.

I get my hair cut at barber shops. Pretty simple cut - Skinhead #2. Usually the price is around 70 bt. I always give 100 bt. When I return I get big smiles, sometimes a jump in queue, and they pay attention to the fine details every time.