way2muchcoffee

I get into National Parks for the Thai price when I show a Thai Driving license, if the policy was racist my Thai driving license would mean nothing, I would still be white therefore I would be discriminated against because of the colour of my skin.

It isn't racist at all.

That is not always true. For me, with Thai Driver's, WP, Tax ID, and spoken Thai it runs about 50/50 at the National Parks.

Ranting and raving is either one of two things here:

1) Rational discussion on experiences that effect our lives in some way

2) Blowing off steam

In any case, I personally wouldn't avoid anywhere with two-tier pricing. It's all about the experience of seeing and doing things that I find life-enriching. I'm not going to shortchange my life experiences over a couple hundred baht.

Christ, I've heard it all now. Don't you think you're stretching the point a bit. We're talking about paying a couple of dollars extra to see a freakin waterfall, not the extermination of 6 million jews.

Perhaps you're drinking way too much coffee

LOL. Probably I've had a but much coffee, but maybe not. To be fair I should point out that you conveniently forgot my next sentence in your quote.

For the record I do not believe the governmental two-tier pricing is the only racism/discrimination in this country.

1) Discrimination against Foreigners in Business

2) Land Ownership issues

3) Visa Difficulties for Foreigners married to Thais

4) The application of fines for laws like littering (only seem to apply to westerners)

5) Two-tier pricing on goods, and other non-governmental services like taxis, clubs, etc.

6) Discrimination against Indians, Burmese, Cambodians, and other immigrants

7) Job Discrimination against dark-skinned Thais

8) Education discrimination against rural Thais

9) Age discrimination in employment

10) Gender discrimination in schools

11) Class discrimination in the legal consequences for lawbreakers

12) Class/Economic discrimination in the admission to certain government universities or high schools

13) Nepotism is a form of Job Discrimination

14) Cronyism is a form of Job and/or Economic Opportunity discrimination

I rather think the two-tier pricing is only the tip of the iceberg.

I'm not so sure your theory holds siamamerican

Life Expectancy

USA: 77.85

Thai: 72.75

Infant Mortality: Number of Deaths of Infants under 1 y/o per 1000

USA: 6.4

Thai: 19.5

Or perhaps it's just the belief that all people should be treated equally regardless of race, creed, or color.

Or possibly it is a reaction to the horrors of Nazi Germany, U.S. Slavery, the general mistreatment of indigenous populations the world over, ethnic cleansing, racial profiling, and countless other similar atrocities that are natural extensions of racist and discriminatory policies.

People are sensitive to discriminatory practices, even small ones, because we have seen the harm they have, do, and will continue to cause.

Never mind.

Let me get this right. It's not racism to discriminate based on the color of skin or on nationality. It is just the Thai way. I am not surprised by all the apologists, but rather am disappointed in their inability to see something for what it really is.

No matter. I love Thailand anyway. I got hit with the two-tier pricing at Khao Sam Roi Yot last week. Wife in for free, me for 200 bt, despite showing work permit, Thai driver's license, tax ID, and politely speaking Thai to the guard. So I paid up, we stayed 2 hours, the cave was beautiful. I would highly recommend this to anyone visiting the Hua Hin area.

Sure there are things that annoy me, but I chose to live here, and on the whole I'm happier in Thailand than in my home country. I'm well established here and have no intention of leaving anytime soon. I will, however, retain the right to point out injustice wherever I see it, be it in Thailand, USA, UK, or wherever. The simple fact is that I live here, so I am more likely to see or feel the injustices here on a regular basis than any other country. TIT.

I think the 21% is probably correct. 'Undernourished' doesn't necessarily mean starving. I suspect it is liberal;y defined as lacking in certain essential vitamins, minerals, or other nutrients deemed necessary for a healthy diet.

Actually the site indicates that 21% of the population of Thailand is undernourished. Click on the country itself and the information appears.

Wow! Thanks for the info. I'll have to visit there in the next few days I think.

I pay more money in taxes to the Thai government every month than the combined taxes paid by the 30-odd members of my wife's extended family. I find the practice of two-tier pricing racist and abhorrent.

Thinking.... Could I live anywhere near comfortably on 10,000 bt per month? No way!!

some countries prisons are more like holiday camps than real prisons.

And which countries would those be?

Being attacked or assaulted by a stranger on the street is not the same thing as when a member of your family is involved in a domestic violence situation. In the first case it is clear that violence may well be necessary to protect yourself and your loved ones. The second case requires an altogether different approach. It requires a considered response, one that is likely to actually solve the problem and not inflame it.

The ability to determine the appropriate response to the various situations in life we encounter is the measure of our morality, intelligence, and wisdom. It is this ability that allows us to call ourselves civilized.

In Thailand 'truth' is not a defense in a libel suit.

If anyone happens to get involved long-term with one of the 90% or so of Thai ladies earning earn less than 10,000 bt/month, it will be expected that you chip in a bit to help make ends meet. Doubly so if by being with you she is required to live a 15,000 bt/month lifestyle. This is not renting a girlfriend, just common sense I think.

Thank you for your honest observation. She is nowhere near a 15,000 bht range, at least not from me. She is a student and not working. It is interesting to see all the claimants on this forum, who say they pay nothing and/or if you do, you are renting a GF or wife. In my personal aquaintences of foreign men in Thailand, who are with Thai women, I only know one who (appanretly) does not give his lady monthly money.

Does this say more about you and the folks you know than it does about anything else?

Actually it says more about you I think.

I make considerably more money in a month than my wife can make. If I assist her monetarily in any way I guess that makes her a money-grubbing whore according to your prejudices. Pardon me if I take offense to your attitude.

Now you may say that we're married and we share assets so no problem. But what about during the 4 years we lived together before we were married, or the year we dated before living together?

By the way, when I lived in the states and lived with girlfriends we shared expenses. Since my earnings were generally higher I picked up a larger share of the tab. I think this is completely normal behavior. It's called being a man. If the incomes were reversed I would think that my former girlfriends would have done the same.

lol, you make lots of points ... all based on something not said or implied. so "pardon me if I take offense to your attitude"

I am glad to know that some of your girlfriends in the states would "have been the man" as you put it, if only they made more money!

Doling out cash to a BF or a GF for living expenses demeans them and you imho. Sharing living expenses is a different story all together So certainly it makes a difference if you are married (or even living together as most places in the west would oft refer to that as common-law marraige)

But to only know one coupled person in Thailand that wasn't putting their other 1/2 on an allowance .. well ..... That does say a lot about a person.

I guess I should ask my Thai BF for a monthly cash stipend since his monthly cashflow is higher than mine! Yeay! thanks for the idea!

Ok then. All of the relationships in which I assisted my partner or vice versa were live together situations. There have been three of those, each lasting about 5 years, including my wife with whom I've been with for 6 years.

I don't know if you should ask your rich boyfriend for a stipend, but if the disparity of incomes is considerable I hope he treats you to some nice holidays and nights out on the town.

Fair enough sweetchariot, i see your point. It often isn't really black and white though.

For example. One of my long-term girlfriends decided to pick up a Master's Degree after we were together about 3 years. We worked out the finances, she took financial aid, and I paid all the rent and most expenses, including her food and transportation, for the five quarters it took her to complete the degree. Sadly we broke it off about a year after she finished so I never got to recoup the investment as it were. The break up was more my doing anyway.

I'm trying to give a2396 the benefit of the doubt here. If his girlfriend is in school it isn't unreasonable for him to offer her some spending cash from time to time. It all depends on the relationship. If she demands money 'or else' that's one thing. If he offers the money because he realizes how tight the money is for any university student anywhere in the world then that is something quite different. If I was in a long-term relationship with someone who was trying to finish a degree I'd absolutely help out financially if I had the means.

I don't know his situation, but I'm not willing to judge without facts. It is so easy to fall into the common assumptions, which may or may not be true in any particular case.

If anyone happens to get involved long-term with one of the 90% or so of Thai ladies earning earn less than 10,000 bt/month, it will be expected that you chip in a bit to help make ends meet. Doubly so if by being with you she is required to live a 15,000 bt/month lifestyle. This is not renting a girlfriend, just common sense I think.

Thank you for your honest observation. She is nowhere near a 15,000 bht range, at least not from me. She is a student and not working. It is interesting to see all the claimants on this forum, who say they pay nothing and/or if you do, you are renting a GF or wife. In my personal aquaintences of foreign men in Thailand, who are with Thai women, I only know one who (appanretly) does not give his lady monthly money.

Does this say more about you and the folks you know than it does about anything else?

Actually it says more about you I think.

I make considerably more money in a month than my wife can make. If I assist her monetarily in any way I guess that makes her a money-grubbing whore according to your prejudices. Pardon me if I take offense to your attitude.

Now you may say that we're married and we share assets so no problem. But what about during the 4 years we lived together before we were married, or the year we dated before living together?

By the way, when I lived in the states and lived with girlfriends we shared expenses. Since my earnings were generally higher I picked up a larger share of the tab. I think this is completely normal behavior. It's called being a man. If the incomes were reversed I would think that my former girlfriends would have done the same.

If anyone happens to get involved long-term with one of the 90% or so of Thai ladies earning earn less than 10,000 bt/month, it will be expected that you chip in a bit to help make ends meet. Doubly so if by being with you she is required to live a 15,000 bt/month lifestyle. This is not renting a girlfriend, just common sense I think.

Nope. It's called honor, courage, and pride Bina. I don't know where you grew up, but the ganging up thing very rarely happened anywhere near where I lived. When people heard of that kind of thing happening, the offending group would be condemned for being cowards, just like when it happens here.

Mostly you would here about that kind of behavior in racist 'redneck' areas and in 'gang' areas. Consequently, neither of these types are respected much. I have never even heard of someone getting attacked by a group of men when stopping a scene like the OP described.

To paraphrase Occam's Razor: 'the simplest explanation is usually the closest to reality'

Another sidestep. Nicely done.

I ask because I was the victim of a mugging in BKK a few years ago. I was walking to a friend's apartment and had to cross over a bridge. It was about 9 at night. Two guys with machetes cornered me on the bridge, one coming from behind and one from in front. They said nothing, asked for nothing, and when they approached one of them immediately swung the machete, arcing downward toward my forehead. Instinctively I put up my hand to block the machete. I nearly lost the pinky finger of my left hand and the thumb was cut fairly deeply as well. I managed to break free and ran as fast as I could, losing a shoe in the process. The two guys chased in pursuit. The first people I reached were at an outdoor neighborhood restaurant. I pleaded with the restaurant worker and several of the patrons for help. All they did was turn away as the two guys slowed, but kept approaching. They literally turned their chairs and faced away. I continued past two more noodle type shops, each with several customers, and each time pleading for help. Nobody would help, so the guys kept up their pursuit for another 50 m or so until I came to within sight of a police box. The two assailants then quickly disappeared into the darkness.

I most certainly would have appreciated any kind of assistance. A phone call to the police, even a shout from one or two of the patrons would probably have sent the guys on their way. Severe damage was done to my finger and I have limited mobility and almost no feeling in it today. Truth be told, I am lucky to be alive.

sbk - you nicely sidestepped grapetable's question. If you were getting beat down on the street while a gaggle of guys sat around and watched, would you wish for somebody to have the courage to step up and put a stop to it?

It isn't meant to be a confrontational question. I know that if I were in a similar situation, as the victim, I would certainly be grateful.

I don't think people should be taking off shirts in public, except while sitting at the beach. I don't understand the idea that if you are young and cut it's ok, but older and fatter not ok. That is completely ridiculous.

Nobody said cut - but in general a young body is inoffensive. Whilst old and wrinkly and flabby is offensive and an assault on peoples senses!

A body is a body. Young, old, fat, skinny, cut, soft, dark, light. No type is inherently more offensive than any other. I think it is you who is offended. This makes it your problem.

If I follow your logic, then all ugly people, or disabled, dark-skinned, old, or deformed people had better just hide themselves in a closet. They aren't beautiful enough to be let loose on the public.

I don't think people should be taking off shirts in public, except while sitting at the beach. I don't understand the idea that if you are young and cut it's ok, but older and fatter not ok. That is completely ridiculous.