way2muchcoffee

It does beg the question: why would any sensible westerner, myself included, even consider raising a child in Thailand if these are typical of the values espoused by the citizenry?

Of course there are many positive aspects to Thai culture that must be considered. And without a doubt, there are many aspects of my own culture that I don't agree with as well.

This a a disturbing thread. I just explained the situation to my wife (Thai). She immediately, and quite angrily, forbade me to ever get involved in any situation of this type.

The op said;

Im two seconds away from giving this cowardly lowlife the beating that'll take him closer to death than hes ever been. I want him to feel exactly what its like to have no one there to help him when suddenly 4 of the guys who have been watching the ordeal rip me off and throw me down across the street.

Trying to prevent somebody from attacking a woman is one thing.

This is something else. At least in my mind.

Very good point.

The people of Germany did nothing when the Nazi's came to power and began a campaign of crime against many of it's citizens. I believe you had a moral imperative to stop the attacker. It is nothing to do with culture. I also believe that you completely lost your moral high ground by going back out to look for the four guys.

You are going to pay 300,000 for a divorced woman? Let me get this right, you are going to pay 3 times what the first husband was going to pay? Does this sound right to you? Then 5,000 per month to the parents? Does she not have any brothers or sisters? How much do the siblings send home every month? Do the parents live in a village? Here comes the gravy train... all aboard!

It never sounds right but this is the Thai / Falang pricing thing all round again, everything in Thailand is more expensive for a falang be it property or sinsot.

She is the eldest child of the family so there is nobody else to support her parents and 2 11 year old brothers and as you probably know once the children are of working age they are expected to send money home. I have been to the village and seen the living conditions which for a falang can only be described as horrendous.

Then the 5,000 per month is quite appropriate, especially considering your salary. Also you should be willing to help with somewhat larger amounts in the case of a medical emergency.

I think the sin sot should be dropped in this case. She has already been married, and divorced, and sin sot was paid by the first husband. That part is over, end of story. If you are going to do a full village ceremony make a present to her of the gold. Let her give some to the parents and keep some herself for security. If they want to have a stack of cash to show in the basket, ensure that it really is just for show. In this way all parties can keep face, and you aren't being abused.

You are going to pay 300,000 for a divorced woman? Let me get this right, you are going to pay 3 times what the first husband was going to pay? Does this sound right to you? Then 5,000 per month to the parents? Does she not have any brothers or sisters? How much do the siblings send home every month? Do the parents live in a village? Here comes the gravy train... all aboard!

If they cut it in the shop you know who the tailor is.

The other shops who sub out that work may use a variety of tailors, or they may change their choice of tailors to save cost. Any variety of things could happen. Thus you may get one high-quality suit but the next could be exceedingly poor.

My students told me that you can pick up dry ice at Swenson's Ice Cream stores.

It's pretty easy to see why it happens. Public transportation in the sticks is sparse. Public transportation in BKK can be exceedingly time consuming, and can cost more than a quick trip on the motorcycle. Most people can't afford cars. Taxis are too expensive. Tuk tuks are almost as dangerous as motorcycles and more expensive than taxis. Families need to get places.

See if you can find out the construction details. Some of the 'luxury' condos popping up all over BKK are built quite shoddily.

Thanks. I've been doing some querying on other forums and worked out some of the details. Here's what I was able to find.

These are the different categories of land ownership from the top (100% legal) to the bottom (illegal).

โฉนด Chanote, a water-tight legal document introduced almost ten years ago to gradually replace นส3ก.

นส3ก Nor Sor 3 (with a green stamp) The old-school legal document which acts in the same way as โฉนด so it can be used as collateral in bank loan applications and can be upgraded to โฉนด.

นส3 Nor Sor 3 (with a black stamp) One months notice is required before selling this land title. This type of land title is being phased out in favour of นส3ก.

สปก Sor Por Gor (printed on card) This land title is for family inheritance only and cannot be sold to outsiders - a so-called 'hard copy.'

สปก Sor Por Gor (printed on paper) This can be either sold to outsiders or upgraded to a 'hard copy.'

ทป5 Tor Bor 5 Totally illegal but very common in rural areas and tolerated by the local authorities. This land can be declared for tax reasons but doesn't have any land title and cannot be used as collateral in bank loan applications. This type of land is preferred by many as there are no strings attached when buying or selling.

I suspect the land my wife purchased falls into the last category

Fair enough.

normal thai women are just that, normal and wont be parted from their kids no matter what.

What a remarkably uninformed statement. Are you saying that the 10's of thousands, perhaps 100's of thousands or more, of Thai women who leave their children in the village to work in BKK as maids, servants, laborers, and construction workers are not normal? Are you saying poverty is not 'normal' in Thailand? I don't get it. I am not saying they don't love their children. Economic pressures force a huge number of mothers to go find work in the city, leaving their children in the care of the extended family. This is normal.

Of course most Thai mothers love their children, as do most mothers all over the world.

I do wonder though if the depth and breadth of a mother's love is somehow less if she has not spent years nurturing the child, being a parent, and seeing the child every day.

It seems that all relationships, including mother-child ones, require frequent contact in order for the relationship to grow and develop. You must spend time with people in order to bond with them. The more time, the stronger the bonds.

As far as my wife lying that would be highly doubtful. At the time of the purchase I didn't have enough money to give her so she sold her favorite gold necklace to make up the difference. We've been together 6 years and have been married for one year. She is a terrible liar. If she is guilty of something it is of being unsophisticated, naive, and overly trusting of others.

Thanks Irene. I appreciate your comments. It is my understanding that the land was King's land that was 'given' to the villagers some time ago. The families living in the village have been there for many generations. I don't know if this makes sense. Before my wife bought the property I asked two Thai friends about the possibility of there being such a case. One had heard of land of this type and the other wasn't sure. The document doesn't have a red emblem and there is no further paperwork.

LOL

My wife mistyped. I guess I need to restate my question. The top of the paper, signed by the village head, witnesses, and my wife, reads:

หนังสือสัญญาซื้อขาย

She tells me it says something roughly equivalent to 'Promise Form' or perhaps 'Promissory Note'. I have no way to really know without seeing a lawyer. It seems the possibilities are:

1) We were scammed

2) We were sold a piece of land but are awaiting a government land office representative

3) We are loan sharks and are holding the land until repayment of the debt

We were told that when the government inspector comes around they would call us to come there so the land could be put in my wife's name. Perhaps someone here has an idea.

Note: I buggered the subtitle to the thread. It would be nice if the system would allow you to modify the thread title.

LOL

My wife mistyped. I guess I need to restate my question. I'll do so in another post as the subtitle of this one is misleading.

My wife's best friend's father arranged the deal. Strange that there are no expiration dates on the agreement whatsoever. What kind of lease agreement has no time duration?

My wife is having a hard time believing she's been cheated. She's kind of clueless about anything involving paperwork and legality. Unfortunately for my wife, she will lose her best friend over this. I'm sure the friend had no idea about the fraud being perpetrated, but the friend's father, village boss, land owner, and others must have. Pretty crappy thing to do.

I am neither shocked nor surprised. Fortunately for me the 'purchase' occurred over a year ago and I no longer have an emotional attachment to the money. It was only 30,000 bt anyway. On my teacher's salary at that time it took about 5 months to save the cash, so it's not nothing. But it's not the end of the world either. I've been reading up on various land/housing threads in this forum the last couple of days. The mistake won't be repeated.

My wife and I purchased a small plot of land (1.75 rai) in her best friend's village near Sa Keaw last year. It was inexpensive, but is a lovely plot. When we purchased the land the village head needed to come. There were papers signed by the village head, with witness signatory by one or two other people. My wife was given a paper. On top it reads:

หนังสือสัญญาเช่า

When I look up the words it means something like a 'Promise' or 'Lease Agreement'. The land hasn't been properly surveyed and deeded by the government, so I assume there should be some kind of Nor Sor Sam, but I have no idea what that would look like.

My wife is convinced that it is her land, and will become so formally once the government gets around to surveying the area. I'm not so sure, but only because of the way in which those words seem to translate. Perhaps I am being a little paranoid, but I certainly wouldn't want to build on land that may not actually be hers. Can anyone comment about this?

thanks!!!

Macb’s Buriram thread was required reading amongst them for a few months until he finished posting. I had the impression it was a bit like them watching a Thai soap opera.

Would you mind posting a link to that thread. I can't find it, and am in the mood for a good read.

That's a good point Rixalex. Don't see much of a problem in doing that upcountry where there isn't a lot of traffic. I recall riding my bicycle to school a couple of miles each way when I was young. When I didn't ride the bike I walked.

My guess is that the poster is describing the random flagging down and paper checking routine that is all too common here.

My stepson who had steadfastly refused to wear any helmet (very uncool) very quickly discover that he could not pose around on his bright red Honda without a helmet. Demanded one...

I wish I could get him to wear it all the time when he is on his bike, not just when he is going to and from school...

You might try providing consequences for misbehaviors. Try taking his keys if he refuses to don the helmet before leaving home. If you see him driving around later without helmet, lock the bike up for a week. Bad behavior without consequence is much more likely to be repeated.

What I said was that it was up to the doctor to determine what qualified as physical or mental harm. I then went on to indicate that the language of the law is vague, so that hospitals can interpret 'mental harm' is the see fit. There is another thread on TV site that discusses the issue. Feel free to look it up.

What are you talking about Thai culture and Puu Yai's for? I thought I went out of my way to indicate that the portion of my post discussing abortion had nothing to do with the case of this young man and woman specifically.

Funfun - to whom are you making the snide comments regarding fatherhood and parenting? You quoted from two posters. I think most fathers in the world would object to their 14 y/o daughter dating a 19 y/o man, as would most governments. In TheDon's defense, I am pretty sure he was being sarcastic in regards to locking his daughter up until she was 26. That is ridiculous and you know it.