MrMojoRisin

8 hours ago, Bert got kinky said:

You forgot to mention ripping off the country, tax evasion and his extrajudicial murders.

 

Your response to a very extensive, factual list of Thaksin’s accomplishments is to regurgitate nonsense junta / anti-democracy / semi-fascist propaganda.

????????????

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

https://www.britannica.com/science/Dunning-Kruger-effect

2 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

Yeah. A clever one, though....

No, not clever at all, I believe he is no more than a man of average intellect - it’s just the dimwits he is being compared to that give the impression of cleverness.

BTW - I was being facetious by labelling Thaksin a devil… those that preach this nonsense do so not because it’s true, but because they haven't the gumption to own their own ignorance and fascist leanings.

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

but they can accept a fugitive criminal as their leader. Pathetic! 

Yeah, Thaksin is the devil.

????????????

Incompetent junta <deleted> themselves over with their own constitution.

????????????

Imagine having absolute power, getting to write the rule book as you please and yet, being such an epic bunch of dip<deleted>s that you’re about to get flogged in an election and tossed to the curb just 4 short years after stealing the previous election.

????????????

I’ve come to understand that it is not that Thaksin is a genius that he wins so much, it is that those opposed him are an historically unprecedented horde of ass clowns.

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Those on these forums that have and continue to support what is light fascism and try disingenuously to justify it with refrains of “Thaksin is the devil”, well…

????????????

5 hours ago, DeaconJohn said:

Tell me again how many military coups there have been since 1932.

Generals in command are as Thai as sohm tam.

The iron fist in the velvet glove has ruled the realm since forever - fat chance that will change anytime soon.

Nonsense.

irreversible change has and is occurring.

5 hours ago, DeaconJohn said:

When civilians take power it becomes a kleptocracy in double quick time.

This comment has got to take the cake as the most inaccurate and silliest yet made on this forum.

If you believe there has been coup after coup to prevent civilian corruption (not to maintain military and elite corruption) then I’ve got a boatload of GT200 bomb detectors to sell you.

Yours has got to be the dumbest anti democracy statement ever uttered.

5 hours ago, DeaconJohn said:

Thais themselves complain about their dictators but prefer an authoritarian gov't to anarchy and fighting in the streets.

Why the fear of elections from those in power then?

Why the jailing of anyone willing to speak up?

Why the constant illegal banning of popular opposition figures?

Why the abuse of section 112 of the constitution?

Why the constant disbanding of opposition political parties?

Why the constant rewriting of the constitution?

Why the oppressive Computer Crimes laws?

5 minutes ago, MisterTee said:

Religion, specifically Buddhism, and the institution referred to are allied but different entities.

If you don't fully grasp that, your study of Thai ways will only lead you around in circles.

My study of Thai ways has taught me that “the institution” unfortunately cannot be mentioned without risk of, at the very least, upsetting one nutter or another. Conservative institutions, no matter which type, have a tendency to appeal to fanatical nutters…. the preceding group identity matters little, for they are nutters one and all.

1 hour ago, zzaa09 said:

Your 20% conveniently omitted the most influential entity and it's cult like power and following. 

All of which can be commonplace among analyst whom truly lack the understanding of how things really function here........and how all this has operated for quite some time.

Euphemistically referred to as religious nutters.

1 hour ago, DaddyWarbucks said:

Your post and the one you replied to nail Thaksin's cojones to the floor, so no need for repetition about economic crimes. 

Both posts do no such thing, so you are correct, no need for repetition.

1 hour ago, DaddyWarbucks said:

Those of us who lived here during his time in power will remember some inconvenient facts that the Kool-Aid drinkers either don't know or choose to ignore.

Inconvenient facts, mmm, how about...Thaksin's pro-poor policies and repeated election victories threatened entrenched interests of the conservative ruling elites, including the military, the civilian bureaucracy and the political establishment.

1 hour ago, DaddyWarbucks said:

The egregious corruption of his administration pales beside the drug war massacres, one of which resulted in 2,873 Thais dead in three months, from February to April 2003.

Ain't it funny how the  "those of us who were here" crowd, who somehow believe that their physical presence miraculously grants them omnipotence on all things Thai, always fail to exhibit any awareness whatsoever of what the Thai people themselves actually, think, feel, want and believe.

A poll taken at the time showed 90 percent of Thais supported the drug war.

Those above and below Thaksin supported the drug war.

Sad but true.

The drug war was terrible (and criminal), and there is plenty of blame to go around to plenty of people and organisations along with Thaksin. 

Your revisionist version of events does nothing but prove your own ignorance, unreliability and prejudice.

1 hour ago, DaddyWarbucks said:

The victims included whole families, women, children and old people.

That was from just one relatively short period of time. How many died in total on his watch is open to conjecture.

Thaksin's introduction of the 30 baht Universal healthcare Scheme reduced preventable infant deaths by 17,000 per year.

Where is your outrage at the anti-democratic forces in Thailand who have for decades raped and pillaged the country, their greed and gluttony never satisfied to the point that the inequality is so great that 17,000 babies needlessly died every year?

Thaksin is surely no angel, but there are a great many seriously awful people causing infinitely more harm to the people of Thailand than him.

Your petty and obsessive hatred of Thaksin reveals a great deal about you.

1 hour ago, DaddyWarbucks said:

When UN sec-gen Kofi Anan nominated a rapporteur to investigate these gross human rights abuses, Thaksin's angry response  was "the UN is not my father".

That is correct, the UN is not his father.

What did the father of Thailand have to say about the drug war?

1 hour ago, DaddyWarbucks said:

He will never regain power in Thailand. A civil war would result if he did.

If it were up to the Thai people, Thaksin would be back in power in an instant.

Any free and fair election will return a Thaksinite party to power.

A civil war?

It would be an 80/20 split.

The military leadership, billionaires, bureaucrats, religious nutters and fascists being the 20 - and the sure losers.

20 hours ago, CMHomeboy78 said:

That's a very good summing-up.

Thaksin and his clan are corrupt to the bone. Anybody who can't see that is either blind or has an agenda they want to push.

But you underestimate his background.

He is descended from a Chinese immigrant who arrived here in the 1860s and went on to make his fortune as a tax farmer.

He settled in Chiang Mai in 1908 where his son and grandson - Thaksin's father - prospered in construction, agriculture, and later as cinema owners before going on to open Shinawatra Silks.

So they were far more than just "silk merchants".

Forbes puts Thaksin's boodle at two billion... he could very easily have bought this latest verdict in his favor.

"But I don't give a hoot" [to quote Trink] as long as he and his family never get back into power.

 

It is actually a garbage summing up.

Was there corruption under "Thaksin and his clan" - of course there was...after all, this is Thailand.

But let's not kid ourselves about who the real villains are when it comes to corruption in Thailand:

The top five richest men in Thailand have reportedly increased their wealth by a combined $13.6 billion over the past year in one of the world’s most unequal countries where the wealthiest 1 percent of the population in a nation of 69 million own more than two-thirds of the nation’s wealth.

Although Thailand made significant progress in rolling back endemic poverty in recent decades, the trend began to be reversed after 2014 when a repressive military junta ousted an elected government in a coup. The rate of poverty has since been on the rise again, according to the World Bank.

Anybody who cannot see the truth is either a gullible fool or a closet fascist.

https://www.ucanews.com/news/pandemic-widens-chasm-between-rich-and-poor-in-thailand/93262

Constitutional Crisis

= time for another

Conservative Coup

10 hours ago, TheFishman1 said:

Well when he left Thailand how many billions of dollars went with him corruption at its best TIT

When it comes to corruption, Thaksin is still a beginner when compared to the Thai military an ammart.

Corruption at its best is the ability to otherthrow an elected government and remove all over site of the illegally installed regime.

How many trillions have been pilfered since the coup?

9 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Some might say, but everyone knows.

The same way everyone know Prawit only borrowed millions of dollars worth of luxury watches and that Thammanat really was smuggling flour, not heroin, to Australia. ????????????

7 hours ago, scorecard said:

- The corruption part is well proven, several times over.

- Astute. Yep, invest in blood diamonds.

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. Accepting and propagating verdicts from a corrupted judiciary is akin to putting the noose around your own neck, for surely what goes around comes around.
 

Bypassing justice to do harm to your enemies only ensures that they will do the same to you.
 

Your prejudices and bitterness (jealousy?) towards Thaksin has you at odds with truth, decency, justice, compassion, reason and logic. 
 

BTW - have you any idea of what types of illegal activities the Thai military has investments in? 

5 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

Of this what if scenario regarding how Thaksin and his gang would've handled the whole COVID mess..........just an educated guess, probably not much different. 

Educated guess I think not.

Just a guess.

Thaksin came to power via the votes of millions of poor Thais. To remain in power he had to continue to contest and win elections which means he had to remain popular with enough voters to win a majority in parliament. Democracy would have held Thaksin accountable to the people. The Covid response of an elected government in a democracy is going to be vastly different to what is dished out by usurpers who come to power behind the barrel of a gun.

The military did not commit a coup and trash the constitution to better take care of the poor, they did it for the very opposite reason.

3 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Deny him accesx to ANY  mass media and he's dead already !

Can’t beat him fair and square so cheat. That’s a losers mentality my friend. Since when has political censorship ever been a good thing? There’s a reason tyrants and dictators rely so heavily upon censorship - it protects the bad and suppresses the good. 

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

'Policies to reduce poverty'.

 

Well that would be wonderful but is it really that simple.

 

At that time there was an outspoken Thai lady in my office, her father was a snr. policeman in a large very poor upcountry area/

 

The lady was so proud of her dad for several reasons. One was that he supervised the distribution of the 'envelopes' to support vote buying. And she make no attempt to hide any of the details she was aware of.

 

Further she proudly told all how the people were told verbally in a visit byone of the party canvassers that:

 

- An enevelope will be in your letter box early morning on xx/xx/xxxx. 

- When you go to vote you must tick YYYY. If you don't we will know and we will tell all your neighbors you don't support the savior. (In an upcounty village being ostracized by all the other people in the village is very serious/very undesireable/even frightening).

 

This same group (Snr cop and canvassers) did the foot work when each village got 1mBaht and in many villages it was doled out to the villagers. Suddenly mobile phones for sale appeared in shops and there was pressue to buy them with the personal dole out from the 1MBaht village fund. Guess where the phones came from in terms of the wholesaler?

 

At that time one of my son's buddies had a ML title, passed on from the boys' mother. The mother was a very snr person in the Thai finance ministry. She was appointed (not asked to join) a committee to monitor how the 1MBaht to each village was being used. 

 

She was no pushover. She refused to accept the reports given by the poliricat appointees in her office, she went herself to several villagers to ask around etc.

 

She discovered that many very poor villagers now had phones, but there was a problem they couldn't afford the 'Top up' cards on sale (at this time 'top up cards were one of the main ways to get further phone credit).

 

So the phone companies introduced 10Baht Top up cards.

 

The lady went back to Bkk, appraoched the minister involved and shared what she had found and shared that she would not allow herself to be part of the 'monitoring committee' and resigned. She was punished  for years for not supporting the 'system'. 

One lady in your office is hardly a sufficient sample to draw any conclusions from, unless of course you care very little for facts and seek only to reinforce your own opinions regardless of how feeble the foundations upon which you perch yourself are.

The most recent Thai “election” barred / severely restricted international observers - why do you think that is? If you are unsure, perhaps you could go ask your lady friend, you know, the one from your office. ????????????

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/26/thai-election-process-deeply-flawed-independent-observers

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

"...Your post history up until recently is a constant stream of pro junta ...".

 

That's not true. 

 

A question; Are you a trump fan, numerous statements by the week which are mostly 100% untrue, twisted etc?

It is very much true.

Trump supporters are much more politically aligned to Junta supporters, I’d suggest you repeat your question whilst looking in the mirror.

On 7/29/2022 at 11:11 AM, Artisi said:

would you care to point out and justify your claim regarding the Democrats and Junta trying to get  of the 30Bht medical scheme. 

First things first, no need to separate the Junta and the (misnamed) Democrats. At every single opportunity to support democracy the feeble (misnamed) Democrats chose to side with Dictatorship. It follows that the destruction wrought upon Thailand by the Junta is, in part, blood on the hands of the (misnamed) Democrats.

As for Thaksin’s 30 baht UHC there is countless instances of the Junta wanting to get rid of the scheme… but let’s start back in 2008 after the judicial coup that installed yellow bellied Abhisit shall we:

“With Thaksin as the face of the “30 baht” scheme, public opinion on UHC seemed to organize along partisan lines. The scheme was replaced once by the Democrat-led government in 2009 under the slogan “free treatment for 48 million people.” It was subsequently resurrected in 2012 with the “30 baht” moniker under the Pheu Thai government.”

Now Prayuth:

Prayuth Chan-Ocha, the head of the junta and Prime Minister, has revealed the eleven policies of his administration, one of which is a plan to improve Thailand’s health system; however, the conservative junta might set Thailand’s health policies back by ten years.

https://prachatai.com/english/node/4341
 

18 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Suggest you check the facts, it was proposed, in detail by the dems.

 

Nobody is saying everything bad in Thailand is Thaksin's fault, that's just your beat up to try to make him look better.

 

Reality is that there's a number of negative forces in this country, has been for decades and they still exist.

 

 

 

Your post history up until recently is a constant stream of pro junta anti Thaksin garbage. Oh how it must embarrass you… just how badly on the nose the junta is now, where not even the most avid consumers of their garbage can bring themselves to publicly support the sad and sorry bunch of clowns running the country. Thaksin implemented the 30 baht UHC - to much global acclaim, the Democrats and their military buddies would like nothing more than to get rid of this lifesaving policy.

39 minutes ago, Orinoco said:

And i suppose these people below are just ignorant fools.

I'm glad none of the dead were your parents as there were to some people in Thailand.

Nice one. 

https://www.amnesty.org/fr/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/asa390012003en.pdf

 

Justice the Thaksin way.

 

 

In 2003, who urged Thaksin to “suppress the drug menace” 

After Thaksin declared victory in the drug war who said “the fight against drugs is far from over”?

In 2004, who said that “the death toll is a small price to pay to crush the drug trade”?

The answer is the same in all three of the above questions - if you know so much about what went on back then you will know who was the driving force behind the failed war on drugs. Either you have no idea what you are talking about or you are will-fully ignoring facts in order to continue wallowing in your own personal prejudices.

I see a poster above is claiming the 30  baht healthcare policy as the brainchild of the (misnamed) Democrats. Ain’t it funny how everything bad in Thailand is Thaksin’s fault and everything good is due to the anti democracy pro coup kleptocrats that barstools fascists so adore. Talk about self delusion.

12 hours ago, Orinoco said:

We are done.

It's a shame you know nothing of what went on years back in Thailand.

But I will say this.

Thailand has the government it deserves.

When the people grow up, they will then truly have the government they deserve, I hope I live to see that day.

Good day. 

 

 

 

Just because you assume I know nothing of “what went on years back in Thailand” doesn’t actually make it true. Your ability to leap to a conclusion from little to no evidence marks you as the very type of individual susceptible to the third rate propaganda the junta and their allies have been using to control the Thai masses for decades. It takes a very special blend of gullibility and ignorance to swallow their nonsense as will-fully as you appear to have done. By the way, who are you to look down upon the Thai people? What have achieved of note in your life? I’d wager <deleted> all, certainly less than the many brave Thai youths who have risked jail, their careers and physical harm in the ongoing fight for democracy. Know nothing cowards these kids are not.

1 hour ago, Orinoco said:

I think it's more funny,  when people think Thaksin was a good guy.

Courts,  you are joking, his regime killed loads of people with out trial. 

 

 

 

 

 

It’s all relative isn’t it.
Is Thaksin a saint? 
Obviously not.

Is he a “good guy” when compared to the Generals and Plutocrats who have robbed Thailand of her democracy and bullied, censored, stolen from and oppressed the Thai people?

Obviously yes.

A free and fair election will certainly reveal the opinions of the majority of Thai's.

What makes you think ”his regime killed loads of people”. Post a link or two supporting your claims. No links is of course confirmation of the presence of bullsh!t.

2 hours ago, Orinoco said:

The criminal is just trying to stay relevant, 

Hoping to keep the doors open for future family members to grab the reins and run the show again. 

 

By “grab the reins” do you mean win an election?

Is winning elections not preferable to coups?

Out of curiosity, had Thaksin been discovered with 30 odd luxury watches that he could not explain where the money came from to purchase… do you think he’d have a criminal conviction for it?

Funny how the Thai courts work eh? Being convicted of political crimes by the Thai judiciary is a badge of honour - it screams out to all and sundry that one is anti-coup and pro democracy.

18 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

An interesting point.  Surely anyone claiming to truly care about the Thai people would make the education system their priority, not simply throw them a few quid to buy their vote?

 

The only real changes Tony made were involved in either enriching himself or keeping the public superficially happy to ensure they voted for him.

Into which basket (self enrichment or superficially happy masses) do you place Thaksin’s 30 baht universal healthcare?