MrMojoRisin

29 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Really?

And did the farmers get the biggest part of that money?

Or did the middlemen, who always make money, just make more money?

And the middlemen are exactly those local influential people who make sure the poor people vote for the "correct" party.

Wrong……again.

The rice scheme bypassed the middlemen by allowing farmers to sell (mortgage) their rice directly to the government.

Your blind anti democracy obsession is causing you to post embarrassing inaccuracies even against the easiest of targets such as Yingluck’s flawed rice scheme.

????????????

1 hour ago, pacovl46 said:

Mate, he's a criminal. End of story and you can twist and turn that for as long as you want, it doesn't change the fact. In regards to your childish counting, if you think Thaksin is innocent then you were never even in the game! ????

* after a fair trial

5-0

1 hour ago, pacovl46 said:

Why do people keep bringing that up????

 

Just because the current one or anyone else for that matter might be corrupt, doesn't mean that Thaksin should go free!!! The one has nothing to do with the other whatsoever!!!

 

Every criminal needs to pay for their crimes. End of story! 

 

 

* after a fair trial

4-0

23 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

All salaries have to be linked to productivity.

This is a concept that really is not palatable in Thailand, as the workers are not productive enough to be driven in this manner.

The Boss,s have to Invest in more modern and efficient Machinery, which makes this policy even more unpalatable to them, over and above paying extra Salaries for the same productivity., so the lay offs will start.

12 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Though their hearts may be in the right place, it is amazing how the opposition party seems to consistently drop the ball on messaging and the ability to win hearts and minds. They seem to be as broken as the democratic party is in the US. And I speak as a Democrat! 

Strange comment, given PT are favourites to win the upcoming election (and the Democrats just had the best mid term election results in decades for a party with the sitting President.

40 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

And again.

1-0

1 hour ago, hotchilli said:

Nobody really wants him anymore..

he's hanging around like a bad odour.

anymore?

1 hour ago, josephbloggs said:

More deflection, once again you don't answer any questions.  Bye bye.

“If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?”
- Sam Harris

34 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Ha ha, brilliant. You have you head so far in the sand it is ridiculous. So you genuinely believe he didn't:

 

• Approve an Exim bank load to the globally sanctioned Burmese junta to buy Shin Corp satellites and services.
• Hide shares by transferring them to his maid, driver, and family members to avoid paying tax whilst PM.
• Instruct the BOI to give tax breaks to Shin Satellite
• Instruct the transport ministry to abolish the minimum flight price rule just before he entered in to a JV with Air Asia
• Authorise the sale of state land to his wife at way below market value. (No conflict of interest there!)
• Have a poor human rights record at all, in fact he was a shining beacon of humanity.

 

Those are facts, there are paper trails. If you don't want to see those facts then feel free to carrry on waving your Thaksin flag but he now deserve to be ignored. If you are not a troll you are doing a good impression of one.

Educate yourself, read a book.

https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/9780801449994/fighting-for-virtue/

1 hour ago, josephbloggs said:

Answer the question. 

Until there is a fair trial your list is nought but allegations.

7 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

So he is innocent?  The extensive list of corruption I posted before (that you ignored) didn't happen?

* after a fair trial

As goes for everyone, innocent until proven guilty.

8 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Just because the trial didn't go his way doesn't mean that it wasn't fair! That's just your opinion. He's a convicted criminal who needs to go to prison, regardless of what your opinion is on the subject matter. End of story!

Seems Freedom House (along with every other NGO that reports on rule of law) disagree with you -

Although Thailand’s constitution grants independence to the judiciary, in practice Thailand’s courts are politicized, and corruption in the judicial branch is common. The Constitutional Court, which has been accused of favoring the military, has sweeping powers, including the ability to dissolve political parties, overthrow elected officials, and veto legislation. In 2018, the government enacted a law that made criticism of the Constitutional Court with “rude, sarcastic, or threatening words” a criminal offense, further shielding the body from accountability. In February 2020, the Constitutional Court abolished the popular opposition party FFP after what observers characterized as a highly politicized trial.

In 2019, Kanakorn Pianchana, a judge in Yala province, shot himself in court immediately after acquitting five Muslim defendants from Thailand’s deep south on murder charges. Before shooting himself, Kanakorn read a statement stating that he had been under intense pressure by superiors to find the five guilty despite a lack of evidence.

https://freedomhouse.org/country/thailand/freedom-world/2021#CL

3-0

1 hour ago, pacovl46 said:

Any criminal needs to pay for what they did, regardless of what anyone else did! 

*after a fair trial

All persons shall be equal before the courts and tribunals. In the determination of any criminal charge against him, or of his rights and obligations in a suit at law, everyone shall be entitled to a fair and public hearing by a competent, independent and impartial tribunal established by law

27 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

In your head maybe, not in the real world, though! 

2-0

44 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 There's many outstanding serious charges against him still unheard, and for many of these cases the evidence has already been made public and shown him to be 

What are these serious charges and where is the evidence?

8 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

This notion that somehow you can legislate prosperity by increasing the minimum wage is nonsense.  If there were no negative ramifications from raising the minimum wage to 600 baht, why stop there.  Why not 1,000 baht or 5,000 baht.

The reality is that a "job" not a person is worth only so much per hour.  It doesn't matter how good or experienced or how much the person needs to survive, you will pay a person only so much to cut your lawn. 
 

Increasing the mimimum wage is the surest way to put people out of work. Employers can not absorb that increase in cost no more than the gasoline stations can not pass on the higher costs they now pay for gas than 3 years ago.  What it will do is increase the incentive for employers to reduce the number of employees, reduce the number of hours worked, and have employers focus on automation to eliminate them entirely. 

We are also in a global economy.  So you raise the cost of labor here, and any Thai company that competes with other companies located in Cambodia, Vietnam, the Philippines, India etc will now find the increased price they must sell their products at will put them at a competitive disadvantage.  If they go out of business or sell less product those jobs will be lost 

You want to increase the standard of living, then increase the value of the worker.  You change from being a nation who has mostly low value jobs like growing rice, cleaning hotels, being cashiers, sweeping floors, and being a waitress to higher value jobs such as automotive assembly, cell phone assembly, pharmaceutical production, tire production, etc.  

Now in order to get there Thailand has to have an educated group of workers.  No company is going to locate in Thailand or expand in Thailand if the human resources to carry out their operations dont' exist.  Apple is in China, and not because Chinese workers are cheap. but because China is the only country that has enough workers who have the training that can perform the tasks required by Apple. 

 

If you look at any of the countries with high living standards they all have one thing in common.  Their economies are based on producing goods and services that require higher levels of education for workers. You will never have a wealthy population when the majority of the workers are engaged in no skill or low skilled jobs
 

 

Nonsense.

The evidence from economic research over the past few decades suggests boosting wages back to a normal trajectory would strengthen aggregate demand and consumer confidence, help keep inflation on target, and bolster government revenues at a vital moment in the post-COVID recovery.

Benefits of raising minimum wage:

• higher labour force participation and productivity among low-wage workers
• better job retention and lower turnover, reducing costs of job search and training
• reducing the “monopsony” power of very large employers to suppress wages
• more money in workers’ pockets, leading to more consumer spending.

https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691169125/myth-and-measurement

2 hours ago, seajae said:

what thais need to realize is that when the wages go up so does the cost of living, this is just an election bribe attempt as per usual, will drag all the uneducated people in tom thinking they wil be better off when they wont. While wages in Thailand are low they are similar to wages in all the countries around them, yes they do need higher wages but they do come with a cost to them as well, Thailand is third world, it is not in the same class as western nations so wage difference should not come into it, the wages have to align with the costs of living in this country. A pay rise is great as long as it does not mean that the cost of living rises and puts the thai people in an even worse postion of not being able to support themselves and their families, wage rises do come with a cost and businesses will always make profits whether they are here or in the west, people cannot compare Thailand to the US etc or would the expats whinging about thai pay rather see Thailand collapse on itself trying to compete with western countries

Not true.

Wages can go up without a cost of living increase quite easily…, all it takes is for profits to go down.

Have you any ideas what has happened to the respective share of the pie going to wages and profits since 1971?

Educate yourself, don’t just parrot the false narrative that perpetuates exploitation of the working class.

https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

16 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I'm stating, not suggesting, that he occupies no role, never mind a lead role, in the current government.

Then you are also stating, unwittingly no doubt, that you know nothing of how politics works.

????????????

6 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Thank you, yes, she was removed by the court, she was not removed by the military coup.

Thank you for what?

The military and the courts are one and the same - there is no hair to be split here.

Yingluck was removed from the Prime Ministership as part of the coup conducted the the Thai establishment of which the courts were a willing co-conspirator.

And her supposed crime… transferring a public servant - how utterly ridiculous.

Yingluck was removed from power in a coup.

3 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

There you go again with your childish deflections and insults.

And did you not read the part where I said there always was and always will be corruption? And also the part about him being so brazen that he didn't care? As you posted yourself Sarit's wealth was only discovered after his death when there was an inheritance battle. Thaksin flaunted his wealth and waved his corruption around for everyone to see because, as I said before, he genuinely thought he was untouchable and that the rules did not apply to him. 

If you care to respond to any of my points feel free, but if you just want to insult and deflect then please move along.

What points?

You've a chronic Thaksin obsession.

You're unable to see things as they are.

There is not a single type of corruption that is not committed on a far far grander scale by the anti democracy military elites than anything Thaksin and his kin were ever accused of, let alone actually guilty of.

The “Thaksin is the devil” nonsense is a mere sideshow meant to distract the mentally limited whilst the status quo is maintained - a free for all orgy of corruption by the military elites.

Elected governments in Thailand were all significantly less corrupt than all of the coup installed regimes - this is a simple and undeniable fact that all of the “but, but Thaksin” nonsense in the world will never convince any rational individual otherwise.

Your obsession with Thaksin is a guise, a fig leaf you hide behind because you haven’t the courage to simply state you are an authoritarian right winger who only believes in democracy if your side wins.

The double standards and hypocrisy one must stoop to in order to maintain the “Thaksin took it to another level” tomfoolery is hilarious.

Nobody is fooled

3 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

What impact did it have on a me personally?  Well luckily I was not put on a drugs blacklist so I am still alive unlike my friend's father who was gunned down by police (no drugs involved at all). Also unlike Nong Fluke, and all the other murdered children and adults across the country - no trials, no evidence, just executed.

Thailand has corruption, it is what turns the wheels, always has and likely always will (just like the UK although - until recently - they were better at hiding it). What Thaksin did though was to take it to another level and he became so self obsessed and complacent he didn't even bother to hide it - he literally thought he was untouchable.

The Exim bank loan to Burma to buy his satellites. The hiding shares in his maid's name (and driver, and children, and relatives) to avoid tax. The Ratchada land sale to his wife at way below market value. Getting the BOI to grant tax breaks to Shin Corp while he was PM, getting the transport ministry to abolish the minimum air fare law when he was about to engage in a JV with Air Asia.  His appalling human rights violations (war on drugs, Tak Bai, Krue Se).

The man is a poisonous, self serving crook with only his own interests at heart. His corruption was so visible and open it was really quite astonishing how he thought he would get away with it - he really did believe he could walk on water.

Oh, the 30 baht health scheme was good though so I applaud him for that.

Methinks you lack a thorough understanding of the topic at hand.

Thaksin took it to another level you say?

When dictator Marshal Sarit Thanarat died in 1963, the Thai public discovered he had accumulated 2.8 billion baht (then US$112 million) during his life - equivalent to 30 percent of the national budget at the time

Thaksin is not the cause of Thailands woes and you are fooling none but the true believers with your fantasies.

7 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

The problem with your thinking is that you are not living in the right era.

 

Let me ask this.

 

Why do most large American companies hire Indian, Philippine or other English speaking outside of N.A. for call centers.

 

Why is almost nothing mas manufactured in England, E.U. Canada or the United States?

 

Why is Thailand no longer making any of the clothes that they used to Wacoal and other thai lingerie companies have had to leave Thailand?

 

Why is China the biggest country for producing things?

 

 The answer is the same they priced themselves out of the market.  

 

The biggest proof of that is the North American auto industry.  with the wages, benefits and medical plans that these companies got it reached a point where the sale of a car did not replace the amount that the company paid on benefits for retired people.

 

The more you raise wages and benefits, the more a company needs to spend, and the easier it is for someone else too out bid them.

 

You talk about migrants coming into Thailand and taking jobs from Thais.  I think you need to look at the U.S.  Why do you think there is an open border at the south?

 

Who do you think is washing the dishes cleaning the rooms, and bussing the tables?

 

If it was not for some of the unions  who do you think would be doing most of the construction?

 

  

Wrong.

https://www.epi.org/blog/inflation-minimum-wages-and-profits-protecting-low-wage-workers-from-inflation-means-raising-the-minimum-wage/

1 hour ago, robblok said:

again Thanathorn is differen to bring him in this discussion is just stupid.

 

Thaksin was corrupt no question about it. So he deserves the punishment.

 

Others do too but it wont happen soon. Your reasoning is let all the corrupt bastards go until the judiciary changes. (Will take years if not decades and all the time they can do what they want). Not a good solution.

 

That is like saying lets not check for people who drink and drive as we can't get them all and some people are above the law. It still helps bring down at least a bit. Better then nothing.

 

Instead of dodging the real question what to do until the judiciary changes. Let them all free or what ? That is the core issue.

 

I dont really expect an answer as you bring in Thanathorn and that is foolish as it about a proven corrupt leader. Thanathorn is not corrupt. 

Thanathorn’s position is that Thaksin should face a new trial under a neutral judge

- why do you think that is?

- why do you disagree with Thanathorn?