chiang mai

Por 161 and 162, are both set in stone.

The member I responded to is British, he remits two UK pensions to Thailand. The member is not American, doesn't have a US Airforce pension and doesn't receive US SSc.

I've only scanned the video you provided because it's very similar to many others that I have seen. This one tries to tell us that all the proposed tax changes are only assumed to be happening but in fact are only proposals. That is true in respect of two of the items, including negative income tax and also the tax on worldwide income, those two things are only proposals at this stage. But the important change that took place last year is the reinterpretation of the overseas remittance rules, that is not a proposal, that is a done deal and has been in effect since 1 January this year. It is that rule change that will force many foreigners in Thailand who are tax residents, and who remit income above a certain level to Thailand each year, to potentially file a tax return. As far as your tax position is concerned: It looks as though all your pension income is potentially assessable to Thai tax and that none of it is exempt by treaty (DTA). If indeed that is the case, the scenario I described earlier is what your liability to tax appears to be, unless you are able to invoke the DTA and use UK tax to offset Thai tax. I'm also assuming that no changes are announced between now and tax filing time next year, that could potentially alter your Thai tax liability.

If others don't reply to this, I will do so when I return

You are eligible for deductions and allowances (known as TEDA) within the Thai tax system of around 500k baht per year, possibly more based on family composition and financial instruments you buy in Thailand. That leaves you with 200k baht per year that is potentially assessable to tax here, depending on the source of your private pension (government/civil service related or not). I suggest you let us know answers to the following and that will zero in on your potential tax liability: Source of UK private pension, government related or not? Married, wife working or not? Wife files own tax return? children and their ages? Thai purchased life of health insurance? Children in higher education in Thailand? Tax deductible investments in thailand? In a worst case scenario I estimate approximately that 150k of your 200k liability might be taxed at 5% and 50k at 10% although any UK tax paid can possibly be used in the retaxing calculation.

Whilst that is strictly correct, I had in mind the Western countries that most members involved in these threads will originate from....my apologies to those members that hail from Saudi, Caymans, Bermuda etc! That is unless a person chooses not to hold a mainstream bank account or other typical financial products such as pension etc.

I agree, I'm pretty sure a person must be resident for tax purposes somewhere and if all else fails, it will be in the country of domicile.

I'm unsure. But the work around is to realise the gain and remit it to Thailand, in a year when you are not Thai tax resident.

I think the TRD will look at that as Capital Gains, even though they are tax free in the UK, that is after all what it would be if it weren't inside the ISA.

I've read some posts arguing that access isn't allowed but I think it's important to read the precise wording. As I recall, it says access to transaction detail isn't part of the annual data transfers under CRS but it CAN/COULD be accessed/provided under required circumstances. Those expressions may not necessarily be contained in any single document since tax and legal requirements both come into play here.

Sorry, yes, you are correct, I'm juggling too many things whilst I ought to be just enjoying the beach. 😞

Indeed that's what the TRD Code says. TIN's can only be issued to tax residents once they have breached the assessable income threshold. If they don't do that, they are not required to obtain a TIN and will not be able to file. The middle part of the argument, where thresholds are breached but there is no tax to pay, once TEDA and the zero rated band are taken into consideration, is much less clear.

Regrettably, various Revenue functions and governments don't agree that pensions are savings, in many cases they were accrued using pre tax income or preferentially treated income.

Sorry, I now realise you are no longer focussing on just the question and scenario raised by the earlier poster but on defining the circumstances surrounding your answer to it, gottit. I understood the earlier poster was solely interested in 2023 savings but you are interested in 2023 and 2024 amounts which are commingled. I am not aware that TRD has made their position clear with regard to commingled accounts (FIFO/LIFO) but I don't think that detracts from the fact that exempt and taxable income can be separated using statements at the end of last year. There is therefore no need for apportionment since the pre 2024 income is exempt and excluded from the return. What remains is interest income earned in 2024, the Thai tax on which will depend on how that interest was earned. Apparently, TRD regards fixed deposit interest as capital gains but regular savings account interest is not. Regardless, all income is taxed using PIT tables rather than a special CG rate. Lastly, I think you are correct that TRD regards partial remittances of CG income to be apportioned although I'm not sure that any of the examples mentioned thus far involve CG. "If the bank balance was £10,000 at the end of 2023 and you have received monthly interest payments in 2024 (and nothing else), the balance might now be £10,220. 10000/10220 = 97.85% is from pre-2024 220/10220 = 2.15% is from 2024. You transfer £1000. Of that amount, 2.15%, or £21.53, was earned in 2024".

Agreed

There is an exemption for all income earned prior to 13/12/23, there is no formula involved and there is nothing to calculate, https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html Interest bearing income such as savings deposits can be taxed at a flat rate of 15%, Capital Gains are taxed as income on the PIT tables.

There are people who think that but there is nothing I have seen the Revenue Code, or from professional sources, that says you can. The issue of whether or not you can do a pen and paper calculation and deduct TEDA/zero rated band to determine if tax is payable, has been often debated. You must decide what you want to do. TEDA is variable from person to person, one person may have only 60k as a personal allowance,-plus the 150k zero rated tax band. Others will have significant other deductions/allowances hence it's not only the 150k that must be considered.

If you have no assessable income, there is no need to file a return. If you have assessable income that exceeds the threshold of 60k/120k baht per year, but there is no tax to pay, you must decide whether to file of not. There are penalties for not filing under those circumstances but they appear not to be levied. If you have assessable income above the threshold and there is tax to pay, you must file a return.

If all your remittances are from savings and there is no tax to pay, there is no requirement to even file a tax return because you don't have any assessable income. Assessable income is that which must be assessed for tax whilst savings pre 12/31/23 are exempt hence they are not assessable.

Risk management would be to hold only a limited amount of money in a single account and to either spread the rest of your wealth around other accounts, both on and offshore. Holding all your funds in a single onshore account and then closing the account and withdrawing those funds, in advance of a tax event that is not entirely clear or confirmed, seems counter productive and futile given the difficulty of opening new accounts and the potential for a positive tax outcome.

We made it to Samet and did stay at the SK Beach Resort for a few days and very pleasant it was too, so thank you and others for the positive recommendation. We couldn't fault the hotel, location or the service, plus the beach was wonderful with powdery white sand. The dedicated pier, ferry and transport all ran very smoothly, an effortless ending to the 12 hours drive to get there from Chiang Mai. We had a bungalow that was very pleasant and only a short walk to a park like area that faces onto the water, all very tranquil and quiet. Lots of European guests, all fighting (literally) for beach chairs at 7am so we decided to give that a miss and hung out instead at the Exec club pool just a stones throw away. As you wrote quite appropriately, they do what they do very well. We took a truck/taxi over to the Ao Prao Resort which was pleasant enough but a little too remote for us. After a short respite to take care of business we're continuing our island hopping with stays on Koh Chang and Koh Kood, both of which we know fairly well. And since I am now very firmly in vacation mode, I will catch up with the forum at some point in the distant future. Cheers.

What you have described is incorrect and appears to be a proportional formula for capital gains remittance rather than the remittance of savings. If the poster has 10,000 pounds in a savings account, as of 31/12/2023, he/she can draw down and remit that amount any time therefacter, reducing the end of year statemented amount accordingly and the entire 10k is free of Thai tax. @Agusts

Paranoia personified

I strongly recommend this thread is closed, the constant refusal by the same few members to debate tax and engage only in personal attacks suggests the thread is no longer valuable. @Captain Flack

It is not a single fixed figure In either case, it depends on what you as an individual are entitled to. In both cases, the 60k personal allowance applies. The married person can claim their wife, assuming she doesn't work or file her own return where it is more cost effective to file jointly. The over 65 year old can claim a deduction for their pension income but the under 65 can do similar for their non pension income. The big difference between the two is that the over 65 can claim an allowance based on old age. On top of those things are other variables such as allowances And deductions for various financial products. I'm sorry there is no single simple black and white answer.