chiang mai

The Bangkok Post reported that 25% of the POPULATION filed tax returns in 2023. EDITED TO CORRECT, population not workforce.

Possession is nine tenths of the law, whoever holds the asset is the likely owner, in law at least. If this was 1925 I'd say the paper based exercise would work but not today. Going much further down this road takes the discussion into that large grey area that sits between avoidance and evasion. It's actions like this that made the UK begin to scrutinise accounts held in the Isle of Man and Guernsey, some care is warranted..

That's fine, as long as the giftee takes ownership of the gift at the point where it is gifted. That means, the giftee will need to have any overseas property transferred into their name, overseas; the 10k USD will need to be transferred to THEIR account in the foreign country where the gift was made; any gift documented and recorded in the country where it is made; before the value of those things can be transferred by the giftee, in their name, to Thailand. What happens outside of Thailand is of no interest to TRD, their interest begins with the remittance into Thailand, the person who makes the remittance and the source/origin of the remittance. You could not for example make the gift overseas, whilst Thai tax resident and then remit the funds to the giftee's account in Thailand because the gift is not made in law until it is received by the giftee. You could however make the gift overseas, transfer ownership to the giftee and once they fully owned the gift, they could remit the proceeds of it to their Thai account as non-assessible income.

Section 523 of Thai Civil and Commercial Code stated that “A gift is valid only on delivery of the property given.” Moreover, the gift legal action will be valid when a gift is given to the receiver. As long as the receiver does not receive the property/asset, the legal action will not be considered as valid. https://www.herrera-partners.com/2024/01/10/on-gift-tax-and-properties-in-thailand/

This is incorrect, please read my earlier post.

As an earlier poster has said, anything earned or saved prior to 31/12/2023 is free of Thai tax so that largely covers your savings question. The answer to the house question is more complicated. Firstly, I assume your house was your primary residence, if so, there is no capital gains (CG) involved. If however you have rented the house out whilst you've been overseas and the house was not your primary residence, you would have to file UK CG. If a CG was involved and those funds were imported to Thailand, the gain would be subject to Thai Personal Income Tax rates (PIT). It is unclear at this stage how the Thai Revenue (TRD) will view partial remittances of CG so this is an unknown. If your house was not subject to CG, you are left with principle and profit, none of which was taxable in the UK and which the UK would regard as savings. Once again, it is not clear how the TRD will view those funds, as savings or as profit and capital that are commingled. There are two options going forward. The first is to wait and see what information emerges from the TRD regarding the two unknows described above but this may take time. The speedier and more certain option is to remit the proceeds of your UK house sale, to Thailand, in a year when you are not tax resident here, that would mean the funds are not assessable. Becoming non-resident for Thai tax purposes for a year would involves staying here for no more than 179 days in the calendar year the funds were remitted and then travelling or living elsewhere for the remaining approximately six months.

I understand the sentiment but your logic is skewed. There's no financial benefit to stopping motorbikes on sidewalks plus it's labor intensive and hard work for no thanks. By comparison, it's far easier to sit behind a desk in an air conditioned office, reading a report from BOT or the banks, containing a list of names and amounts transferred from overseas and then sending somebody a letter or asking an audit team to go have a chat.

Remitted income only.

We do not agree and probably can't go any further. I am certain that a Thai tax resident cannot legally escape tax, merely by remitting funds to another person, the concept flies in the face of any audit and compliance rule and reasonability test that I've ever heard of. Probably all done here now.,

Legal opinion is that a gift only exists when it is actually made, the intention of making a gift does not constitute a gift. "From section 521 and section 523 of Thai civil and commercial code, it shows the qualification of the gifting. We can examine the legal action of gift must contain all these elements. We do not need to point out that without one of these elements, the legal action will not be considered as gift. Section 523 of Thai Civil and Commercial Code stated that “A gift is valid only on delivery of the property given.” Moreover, the gift legal action will be valid when a gift is given to the receiver. As long as the receiver does not receive the property/asset, the legal action will not be considered as valid. https://www.herrera-partners.com/2024/01/10/on-gift-tax-and-properties-in-thailand/

The question of whether the gift has been taxed offshore is not relevant until those funds are declared to the TRD on a tax return, by the remitter but under your scenario, that is never allowed to happen. There is no presumption by anyone regarding whether tax has been paid or not, on foreign or domestic funds, until the Thai tax return is filed. If the gifter is a Thai tax resident, they will have remitted funds from overseas which, for the sake of this example, are assessable to Thai tax. The fact the funds were remitted to another person and not to their own account, does not excuse the remitter from declaring the funds on a tax return. If that same remitter had remitted Thai assessable funds from overseas, to, for example, a Thai property developer, in order to buy a condo, those funds would need to be assessed for Thai tax as if they were remitted to their own Thai account. If that were not true, any foreigner living in Thailand could pay all their bills in Thailand, using remittances from their overseas account and none of it would be regarded as assessible income and no Thai tax would be due ever! The gift is only made when the gifter is willing to give and the giftee is willing to receive, that can only be proven once the remittance has been made, the argument that the gift is made before the remittance is therefore not valid.

How can a giftee make a remittance to themselves, from another person's' overseas account? I get that the decision to gift is made first but only the gifter can make the physical transfer. Those questions are probably moot since what you're suggesting is that everyone, native Thai's and foreigners, can gift their income to a spouse or relative and nobody anywhere in the country has to pay PIT.....cool!

Wow, apparently that's the regional hospital and also a medical training facility, that very worrying.

Even though they remitted Thai assessable income to make the gift?

Yes, but the split year filing is interesting, the same as self employed and rental income. WHich I take to mean that they want to know about the event sooner rather than later, because it is an area of potential abuse.

An interesting find that Gifts given via the Gift Tax rule are regarded as income Category 8: A10: Gift tax is considered income type 8. Persons liable for gift tax must submit income that occurred between January and June, form Por.Ngor.Dor.94, within September of the tax year, and submit income that occurred between January and December, form Por.Ngor.Dor.90, within January and March of the year following the tax year. If the form is submitted via the internet, the deadline is extended by another 8 days. https://www.rd.go.th/43338-1/clear-cut-ภาษีการรับให้-gift-tax-ใครต้องเสียภาษี.html

Goodbye

Everything I've read suggests the gift needs to be well documented in advance and clearly spelled out as being a gift and why. The date is also of relevance if it is to be repeated, eg. an anniversary or special occasion or date of significance. Having the agreement stamped by a lawyer would be the icing on the cake I imagine.

Why even bother demanding an answer to the question in the first place, if you were only going to believe the answer you wanted! Ignore list, now, parole hearing in one year. Bye

Yes, if I had the proof I needed

If you say so

Perhaps. And perhaps the auditor would see it as a contrived scenario.......not a situation I'd want to be in.

"In Thailand, regulations on gifts are generally covered by Sections 521 to 536 of the Thai Civil and Commercial Code. A gift is any property or money that is voluntarily given to another person without the expectation of receiving anything in return. So, for example, if you gratuitously forgive someone’s debt or hand someone a cheque to obtain pardon, this would be considered a gift under Section 522 of the Civil and Commercial Code". https://silklegal.com/law-on-gifts-in-thailand/ gratuitously Law. without receiving any return value: The plaintiff must show that they will be forced to either hire someone to perform such household services or have someone perform them gratuitously. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/gratuitously Legal Concept of Gift Section 521 of Thai Civil and Commercial Code states that “A gift is a contract whereby a person. Called the donor, transfers gratuitously a property of his own to another person, called the receiver, and the receiver accepts such property.” https://www.herrera-partners.com/2024/01/10/on-gift-tax-and-properties-in-thailand/ "When you give something away as a gift, you are expected to relinquish all benefits from that asset. If you continue to benefit from it in any way, this is known as a ‘gift with reservation’". https://www.expattaxthailand.com/gift-tax-2024/

I can easily imagine a scenario where the same passport, name or ID number appears repeatedly over time and somebody decides to take a closer look. That's the entire approach to money laundering under the aggregated 10k rule in the US, same person makes lots of transactions under the reporting threshold.

Give it a a rest!