MicroB

UK government considering extending residence requirement in UK for Indefinite Leave to Remain from 5 years to 8 years. Caveat its the Daily Mail; https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12156381/Foreigners-wait-longer-British-citizens.html So for Partner visa, @2.5 years per visa, that will mean 1 x visa application fee (£1577), 3x visa renewal fees (3x £1033), 8x NHS surcharge (8x£624) plus ILR fee (£2,404) (12,072) rather than current 1 x visa application fee (£1577), 1x visa renewal fees (1x £1033), 5x NHS surcharge (5x£624) plus ILR fee (£2,404) (£8,134). Seems like a money making exercise.

For those interested, anyone with a Thai passport with such a stamp in is blocked from applying for a new one until any blacklisting has expired.

For a Partner Visa, I have £1500+ to lose (non-refundable). Immigration Rules Appendix FM S-EC.1.4.(c) make it clear: Though common sense suggests there is a difference between a beak handing down 1 year versus 4 weeks because they didn't have the money to pay the fine. But anyhow, a good Malaysian friend (consultant Surgeon in the UK) who had a particularly nasty run in with the HMG (threatened with deportation because he asked permission to attend a wedding in KL. Cost him £5k in lawyer fees to stay in the UK, missing the wedding of course, due to the arbitrary nature of a nameless official), is looking into the Malaysian codes I have to confirm what was the actual offence. I suspect there is no leeway, hence the manual, but time is a probable solution. Her current passport in in her previous married name, which being Thailand means she had a first name chosen by her ex-husband, because he didn't like her given name. Her ID card is in her maiden name and new given name. So she needs a new passport. She thought she would have to wait for her current one to expire before getting a new one, which isn't the case. She just has to apply for a new one and the current one is canceled.

I have now read S-EC.1.4(c), and well understand it now. Wait until December 11 2024, unless Appendix FM is revised. Hopefully PM Starmer by then. Not that I would normally vote for his party. Present HS has a screw loose and looks to low hanging fruit to get herself out of trouble.

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So I suspect the large number of members of this forum who have confessed to overstaying in Thailand are basically criminals for life, and should be denied visas for any other country. In addition, their obvious untrustworthiness would mean they should be banned from certain positions or coming into contact with the vulnerable. This seems consitant with your point. Malaysia began a draconian policy some years back, replacing the previous overstay fine system with mandatory jail time. Another Guesser. Blocked based on off topic worthless replies.

Bye. Blocked.

Bye. Blocked

Ignoring those guessing.

My Thai fiance has an irregular travel history, from before I knew her, and while I have no intention of witholding information if asked, I am unsure if it will affect the success of an application for UK Holiday or Partner Visa. In September 2019, she traveled to Malaysia for work, with friends, via an "agency", to whom she paid 7000 Baht for "insurance". She worked in massage. Previously, she was an electronics engineer with a Japanese firm in Bangkok for 13 years until divorcing her husband (who was also her manager). As she puts it, on her first day at work she did one foot massage, then went shopping at the local market before being picked up by the Malaysian Police (I assume there are regular raids in the area). She was 3 days in a holding cell, before being bailed. She is unclear who paid the bail, but I suppose it was the shop, who kept her passport for surity. I think once being bailed, she could have simply checked out of Malaysia, and that would be that. But she had no passport and dutifuly reported to the police station on a regular basis, until the Malaysians suddenly rearrested her and her friends, and threw her in a pretty miserable sounding prison (15 to a cell, sleeping on the floor, a bit of rice and some disgusting rotted fish to eat. Eventually her court date came around, a few days after the 30 days she had been originally permitted to stay in Malaysia (so essentially about 1 month on remand). The Court process was in English, which she didn't understand, and she had no representation. The result was another month in prison, deportation and a 5 year black listing (until December 2024). The stamps and scribbles in her passport, as much as I can determine, relate to an overstay offence. Googling, it seems there are many students, interns, who got the same stamp and were thrown out. The whole experience seemed to have shocked her; in prison, there were many different nationalities. A lot of underage Vietnamese girls, but also hardened Malaysian criminals who seemed to have no problems getting extras into the prison. I understand, for the UK, all travel history for the last 10 years has to be provided, along with any convictions. As related, are these events likely to have a significant impact on the outcome of a visa application, or unlikely to merit much concern?

Dementia has not been mentioned. Using the US population as representative of a Western population, 5% of 65-74 year olds will have Alzheimers, 13% of 75-84 year olds have, and after 84 years, its 33%. There's no cure. Early diagnosis means you can receive medication that slows the pace of the disease in some people, but by the end, you are on a bunch of anti-psychotics to control your behaviour. AD is also a terminal diagnosis; AD will in the end kill you, usually cardiac failure as the bits of the brain die off. The irony is, in the UK, the majority of pace maker recipients have dementia; the pacemaker keeps the patient alive long after the patient has gone. Familiies have to resort to court orders to get the thing turned off, to prevent a continuance of a living nightmare. Dementia is a diagnosis few people accept or believe. In 2017 my father, who had been living alone for 4 months while his wife was in hospital. was diagnosed with AD. No major crisis had triggered the mini mental test, just little changes in behaviour about the house. He passed away in September last year, after 2 weeks basically comatose at home. The Docs wanted him fitted with a pacemaker. This family pushed against that; he wouldn't have gotten out of hospital, a miserable end. Looking back, at first he was dismissive of the diagnosis, insisting they had made a mistake. Those who did not know him might have agreed; outwardly, he was fully functio.nal. For a while, if I let him, he might have been able to drive his car. Two years in, it was more apparently, but he was still reasonably independant, popping down to the shops, even using a card machine to pay for a pub meal. He was even taking himself to the hospital for macular degeneration checks. At that stage, he knew there was something wrong with him, but couldn't recall what it was (for reference, he was a retired army Captain, 50 years in the medical field, and in retirement, he had gained a BA ans MA in Humanities)/ From 2020-22, he went downhill rapidly, possibly hastened by COVID lockdowns. He couldn't dress himself, subject to foul mouthed outbursts, increased anxiety, defecating in bed. His time was improved by family and carers, and he still enjoyed some good times. But AD doesn't completely rob the individual. Most of the time, in conversations, he would recycle the same old anecdote, increasingly things from when he was a child; perhaps it was his attempt to remain relevant, join in a conversation. But sometimes, there was a light bulb moment, and he had regained his faculties, and you could actually have a conversation that didn't involve him recalling doodle bugs over London. Given the incidence of dementia, and its prognosis, how would that go for an expatriate in Thailand. Living in an alien culture, probably diagnosis will be very late (social faux pas dismissed as something unique to foreigners). Without diagnosis, there is a good chance you will be found lost, possibly in a Thai prison cell. in a pretty miserable way (semi-starved, dehydrated)/ With a diagnosis, what then? You end up a burden to Thai society, unless you are flown home and dumped on the street. With Dementia, patients lose the right to refuse treatment. Others have to act in your best interests. It was very hard for me to tell the doctors not to fit a pace maker to a man who had been told he was in heart failure, but I also knew that Dad would not want the treatment.. This is different from a DNR. This chap was lucky, in that he had a Thai family to look out for him. I suspect there are many not so lucky: https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2270423/french-man-lost-in-chiang-mai-forest-found-safe

I'm considering using an agent for a Thai marriage, and reading these replies, it seems worth it. The Agent I am speaking to is coming from my fiance as a recommendation of friend of a friend's daughter, which probablyh means I will now have to use this agent and no other. After initially quoting a ridiculously low 2500 Bht, they came back with 25,000 " we take care of eveything, you not worry". Is this fair, and is there scope to knock a bit off (ie. get my own quotes to see if they will come down a bit), or is pricing fairly rigid?

UK Tax treaty, with a section on PE: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/507424/uk-thailand-dtc180281_-_in_force.pdf BoI have told me that LTR is supposed to provide tax advantages to individuals not companies. I am a Director of Research; my role might on occasion involve interaction with sales or the consulting team, but I am never involved in contract signing. But that role might change. Its perfectly plausible that I might be involved in sales to Thai entities (the Thai government is one of our clients), or signing off a custom project. Merely being located in Thailand could affect what I can do or cannot do for the company, and that affects career prospects and certainly job security. The issue is what incentive there is for my employer. This is something I want to do (live and work from Thailand), not a requirement from them. As a Public Company, it would be highly remiss of them to not seek professional lawyerly advice on the impact this would have on the company. At one level, the official policy is that I would be paid a salary based on the local rate, which could be 50% of my current salary, which would kill this for me, even if there were no other issues. I have too many UK financial committments. I probably want to continue with NI payments. My immediate line manager has no issue maintaining my current salary, but I suspect that's not really in how power; I am dependant on the largesse of the employer. What happens after 5 years? You might hope that Thailand extends for another 5 years. Or they might not. Similarly, your employer might take a different view. What happens if your job ends (redundancy for instance). You can't stay in Thailand automatically. Taxation arrangements will change if you take another job (supposing permits. visas worked out). I've had a conversation with an International Tax Consultant who is thinking about exactly the same move. He's concluded the process is too opaque to risk the standing of his employer.

Ask the employer about permanent establishment, risk of. If the company has a subsidiary already, its possibly not a problem. But then they'll put you on Thai wages, which might not be $80k a year. If the company doesn't have a Thai subsidiary, then there is the risk of Permanent Establishment, which basically means the company might become liable to Thai corporation tax, @ 20% on Thai revenues. If they company cannot show the Thai revenues, then I think they get docked 5%. The terms depends on the tax treaty between Thailand and your country. For the UK, and most others, Permanent Establishment happens if the employee is involved in any sales role or signs contracts, that might involve a Thai entity. I'd thought it was implied. But for me, a Thai salary would be half my current, and I have a mortgage to pay. My role isn't sales, but my role might involve signing contracts in the future. A move to Thailand will limit my work in the company. But it rests on a Lawyer's reading of "habitual" in the tax treaty. Likely the Company Lawyer will say no way. And in 5 years time, what then? Will Thailand even still have a LTR scheme? Others might suggest a non-Immigrant B visa and work permit if working for a Thai entity. Not sure of the accuracy, but be prepared to be depressed https://www.chrislross.com/PPPConverter/

The LTR people at the BOI came back to me with a simple response: Its not even a 10 year visa. They issue it for 5 years, then you renew. In that time, the Thai government could withdraw the visa, change the conditions. As ment.ioned, its superficially attractive I guess the work permit route is best. The subsidiary isn't fully integrated into the company (its registered name is still the original trading name). I'm not even sure it has much of a future in Thailand (its just one part of an acquisition). And my company reserves the right to put me on a Thai wage, which might be anywhere from about the same as now, to less than half my current salary (if I can trust the various estimates of Thai director salaries), though my own manager would be happy paying me the same (it might be sterling converted into Baht at the time of a move, better hope Sterling doesn't strengthen....).

For me the personal income tax issue was already pretty clear. The more important issue was Permanent Establishment; whether me moving to Thailand would have a significant impact on the financials and costs to my employer, the company. A poster was supposedly told verbally by BOI that there was a PE exemption, but no documentary proof has been provided to date. See:

I'm in the UK. UK-Thailand Tax Treaty https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/507424/uk-thailand-dtc180281_-_in_force.pdf On the face of it, point 3e is me, and to an extent 3d. But there is clearly a restriction on what I can do or what I will be able to do. On the

Interesting. Point noted on the subsidiary. However, for UK companies, the express territorial limits of the Employment Rights Act 1996 were repealed in 1999, meaning employees of UK companies overseas do retain employment rights....maybe. It is a subsidiary, not a distributor. Though to be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if it is shuttered and the functions moved to India. https://www.internationalworkplace.com/about-us/news-and-insight/do-you-know-employment-rights-employees-working-abroad This document, from when they were drafting the LTR regulations flags up PE; almost sounds like they hadn't thought of this, and were looking to address it (maybe): https://resolution.soc.go.th/PDF_UPLOAD/2565/P_406340_25.pdf

I think the Permanent Establishment issue kills this. If anything, it limits what I can do for the company. The Company is not going to look into it and is putting all responsibilities for costs, including taxation, on me. As you point out, a lot of people aren't thinking this through clearly.

I was advised to check this topic, but having searched it,Thailand, but if a company doesn't knw it seems my question has not been raised before. For those working from Thailand, for a non-Thai entity, how has the question of Permanent Establishment been dealt with. I work for a UK Plc, in the financial sector. Based on company revenue, my salary and my qualifications, I seem to qualify for this LTR visa. My employer is in multiple different industries, and in 2020 purchased a UK company concerned with the automotive sector, which came with a significant Bangkok business that is now 49% owned by my employer. However, its not a part of the company I work with or ever work with (I work in the healthcare sector). While Permanent Establishment does have a UN definition, it seems countries have their own view. Essentially it considers if a company is subject to Corporation Tax because it has established some sort of presence in that country that is to do with deriving revenue from that country. Thai corporation tax is 20% of revenues earned from business with Thailand. If the comapany doesn't know how much revenue it gets from Thailand, corporation tax is 5% of total revenues (I think), which would amount to about £10 million a year to the Thai finance ministry. If that happened, I don't think I will be doing the move. Also, it will cost the company a significant amount of effort/expenditure to figure which Thai incomes are not currently taxed according to Thai law, which are subject to tax treaty etc.. BUT PE isn't an issue if the presence in country is not "directly" related to revenue generation. ie. If I was in sales, doing deals with Thai clients, or if I was involved in contract agreements (signing off contracts), I would be considered establishing a PE. However, my role is Director of Research, within out healthcare entity; essentially I direct the creation of content that the sales people go out and sell. Nothing I do is specific to Thailand, but I do know Thai entities do purchase our healthcare data. At least, this is how I understand it. So, does the fact the company already has a subsidiary in Thailand, albeit at some distance from the work I do, mean nothing changes for the company's status if I choose to move to Thailand? I would add this is something I want to do for personal reasons, not because my company wants to relocate me. The company has recently introduced new working policies, which includes a conditional approval to work in places other than my home country. So far, within the company, I know of one employee who chose to work in Poland, but was put on Polish wages, another who relocated from Canada to Japan, and who was retained on Canadian wages, some who have gone from UK to New York and San Francisco, and are pretty much on the same salary deal as London. In theory, I could be put on Thai wages, and still be UK taxed (but I suspect if it came to it, they'd agree to maintain a UK level salary).

Additional information; my employer has a subsidiary in Bangkok, following acquisition of a UK company in 2021, but not operating in the same sector as me. The Bangkok company is 49% owned by my employer. Not sure of the significance of this.

I'm thinking of relocating to Thailand in 2024 under the Long Term Resident Visa. From my understanding, I meet the requirements of this visa. I am a Director of Research for a UK Public company, and been with them for over 10 years. While my salary doesn't quite reach $80,000 based on current Sterling rates (but its close), I have a PhD, so exceeding the Masters requirement. The company posted nearly £190m in revenue in 2021, and nearly £180m in 2020. I'm expecting double digit revenue growth in 2022. The company is in favour, in principle, of allowing me to relocate to Thailand (subject to me working legally etc). However, I've come to aware of "Permanent Establishment" and the possible implications that might have for my employer, possibly making them liable to Thai corporation tax. Obviously, they might not be happy with that. Maybe someone can shed light on this. In my role, I am not directly involved in revenue generation. I basically lead the teams that create our product. Its sales who go out and sell, and get contracts signed. I might be involved in the selling process, but I derive no commission or bonus from sales. In our consultacy business, I might be involved in production of a deliverable, but never with the actual signing of contracts. Can anyone provide an opinion whether my company would be liable to "Permanent Establishment" in Thailand? I have a feeling this might put the kibosh, for now, of a move to Thailand. A lot seems to be determined by how much authority I have (I don't have any) and my involvement in generation of revenue arising from business with Thai companies (my company probably does do business with Thai entities such as King Power, or even the Thai government, but I don't think in my part of the company, we do any business in Thailand (but I'd hate to think that my presence in Thailand might impede business with Thai companies in my sector). Maybe someone can share experiences of working from Thailand, for a non-Thai company.

You're making assumptions about my mum and dad. Tradition also demanded the groom asking permission off the prospective FIL in a grovelling way, before popping the question. Dad obviously had to get mullered to ask the question, so not so easy for him. But who knows; he's no longer around. Sometimes people just click right away.

Not always. My father passed away in September. He met my mum while serving at BMH Colchester; 29 year old RAMC sergeant from Hackney and she was an 20 year old army nurse from Melton Mowbray. He knew her, after meeting through a mutual acquaintance, for about 1 week, and popped the question while drunk as a lord. They were married for 54 years. Its different for everyone.

What about Dementia? Were you really of sound mind when you decided you wanted to end it all, or did you come under undue pressure from family members who just wanted rid of you? It happens. I've no issue with suicide, and don't take a Catholic view of it. I've an issue when you ask a doctor to help you on it. Doctors should of course have the right to say No, I'm not going to help you. But what of those who enter the profession because it will give them the opportunity to end someone's life; Dr Shipmans without the profit motive. People like that do exist, and are drawn to professions that give them the opportunity. There was a recent case of an American nurse, William Melchert-Dinkel, who online groomed troubled people to take their own lives. Dutch reflections indicate the moral complexity once euthanasia becomes institutionalised. Hospitals become places where you go to be cured, to die, to be killed. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/mar/17/assisted-dying-euthanasia-netherlands