CRUNCHER

If you do not speak, read and write Chinese getting a reasonable job at-the recruitment level will be exceeding;y difficult. You will need a work permit. Teaching might be an option. Try the British council or write to HK Education Department. They used to hire native English speakers, but don't know if they still do. Pay was not very good and often working conditions not that good. Worth a try though.

and Ms Porntip never has questioned the fact it is the two suspects semen found in one of the victims and that investigators make mistakes in just about every case that takes time to solve all across the world. And if you believe a bloody hoe was found then you should believe everything else as fact that has been reported. Oh, and another fact you missed is the families after speaking to UK investigators feel confidence the the two suspects are the right people on trial.

An indisputable fact is that we don't know all the evidence and facts of the case ... well of course somebody living in a different reality selectively believing what they want to go along with what they want to believe can dispute this.

I concur with GC, everything JTJ asserts is wrong. Ms Porntip has openly questioned the handling of DNA from Thai officials. I don't understand the point JTJ is trying to make about the hoe. As for victims' families. It's already been established that they were only fed pap from Brit authorities who aren't allowed to do any investigating, and who only regurgitated what they were told by RTP.

I never asserted we know ALL the evidence and facts. Now you're adding the word 'ALL.' Pretty sneaky, dude. There are a few guys on the island (and perhaps some of their family and buddies) who know the lion's share of the facts, but they're out partying at the clubs alongside our sons and daughters. The people who know (one of whom is dressing in monk's robes, ha ha) aren't telling.

I do not know why you keep harping on about the British coroner doing her job. She has done her job, she is doing her job and, presumably, will continue to do her job. You have been told this so many times by people who know more about this than you do, but you refuse to listen. Like so many other things you are wrong and out of your depth. How can you be taken seriously when you cannot grasp a simple fact like this.

If the British coroner spends her time doing other peoples' job, who is going to do her job?

The British coroner was due to release her findings on the 6th of January.

That was her job.

Has she done her job ?

No she was not due to release here findings on 6th January. Show me where that was said. How could she do that when there was no inquest? No jury was empaneled. No witnesses gave evidence. I said ahead of that date that the case would be adjourned and so it proved to be the case.

That date was just "for mention". Yes she has done her job.

I tell you what it will be adjourned again in October.

One big fact you (referring to me: Boomerangutang) missed is that the semen of the two suspects arrested matched and the DNA of the Nomsod didn't.....

That's if you believe the DNA trail which Thai authorities concocted. I don't, and that's big reason why I wish the Brit Coroner would do her job. Unfortunately, even if her office did its job, and typed the two or 3 types of DNA found in/on Hannah, what would the Brits compare it to? They've already been denied DNA type from Nomsod, and probably other suspects as well. Judging by how idept the RTP have been, the RTP probably didn't even take DNA from others who should be suspects, such as 'Stingray Man', M, and Mon's cop friend (who threatened Sean's life). If you trust Thai officials' version of the DNA trail, then I've got some hair growing lotion to sell you for your bald spot. It's only $3,000 an ounce.

and Ms Porntip never has questioned the fact it is the two suspects semen found in one of the victims and that investigators make mistakes in just about every case that takes time to solve all across the world. And if you believe a bloody hoe was found then you should believe everything else as fact that has been reported. Oh, and another fact you missed is the families after speaking to UK investigators feel confidence the the two suspects are the right people on trial.

An indisputable fact is that we don't know all the evidence and facts of the case ... well of course somebody living in a different reality selectively believing what they want to go along with what they want to believe can dispute this.

I concur with GC, everything JTJ asserts is wrong. Ms Porntip has openly questioned the handling of DNA from Thai officials. I don't understand the point JTJ is trying to make about the hoe. As for victims' families. It's already been established that they were only fed pap from Brit authorities who aren't allowed to do any investigating, and who only regurgitated what they were told by RTP.

I never asserted we know ALL the evidence and facts. Now you're adding the word 'ALL.' Pretty sneaky, dude. There are a few guys on the island (and perhaps some of their family and buddies) who know the lion's share of the facts, but they're out partying at the clubs alongside our sons and daughters. The people who know (one of whom is dressing in monk's robes, ha ha) aren't telling.

I do not know why you keep harping on about the British coroner doing her job. She has done her job, she is doing her job and, presumably, will continue to do her job. You have been told this so many times by people who know more about this than you do, but you refuse to listen. Like so many other things you are wrong and out of your depth. How can you be taken seriously when you cannot grasp a simple fact like this.

If the British coroner spends her time doing other peoples' job, who is going to do her job?

Missing women found https://mobile.twitter.com/missingabroad

Good, but I wonder if we will ever get to know what this was about.

Are some of you for real. Disappointed that the police may have got it right, flunked the armchair detective course have we. Can't theorise about a murder can we, no more assumption or speculation. But wait, some of you are now chemists and know that this mix could not possibly kill her. One even goes to the stage of suggesting she would not want to kill herself. Many do not, but many take these concoctions to heighten their experience, not with the intention of doing themselves in but alas, some do make mistakes and end up going to far..

Death by misadventure, most likely, suicide, a possibility but unlikely however definitely not murder. We even have one poster telling us the coroner did not care to find out the cause of death. Please understand, the coroners report has not been released so how can that statement be taken seriously. Why do not some of you read or is it you do not comprehend or are just picking pieces to suit your agenda? It's only a preliminary report, and these just detail the basics.

Ok, please note, the Preliminary Report states that a combination alcohol and Valium was found in her system. You would need a large quantity of the drug alone to have an overdose but mixed with alcohol, a very deadly concoction. So why can't all of you who want to go off on your tangents of theories, assumptions speculation, accept that the poor lass was not murdered and, at this point in time, appears to have brought about her own demise and that it had nothing to do with certain people, corrupt police or even the so called mafia or serial killers, as some have suggested. Also, Valium and tramadol are readily bought throughout Thailand, without the need for a prescription.

We would not theorise about these cases if the RTP did their job properly. Within minutes the RTP say no foul play, how can they say that. The man found

hanged with his hands tied was "suicide" Really !!!! The boy found dead a while ago, was supposed to have fallen 50 foot without bruising himself.

The RTP should stop speculating and give out FACTS.

Looks like they did their job ok.. Please show me where that they made this statement within minutes of discovering the incident. I don't know the police involved or how they carried out their investigation but if you know anything about policing and have any investigative skills, then maybe you would understand that police sometimes issue statements for specific reasons.

Also, if you are practised in investigating murders, by just examining the crime scene, it is possible to establish that there has not been any foul play. Are you using the tabloid stories to base your statement on? I hope not, as their interpretation of what occurred and what actually went down can be very different. So to answer your question, it is very easy for a skilled investigator to make such a statement. I have not referred to the other two matters, know nothing about them, so why have you brought them into the discussion. What conclusion are you trying to draw by discussing irrelevant matters.

So you want the facts, what for? You cannot and never will have any input or is it just assist you in your endeavours to solve the case and make you look good as an armchair detective.

Quite right.

In a case like this, where a young person dies suddenly, with no signs of violence, but signs of drugs, the first reaction is that there has been no crime. However, this is not taken for granted and the scene is sealed pending a post mortem.

It seems the police did just that -unless you still believe the room was rented out after 15 minutes. If the post mortem reveals something unexpected you can go back and examine the scene for a possible murder.

Maybe the police made mistakes. I do not know; nobody on this thread does, but so far I cannot fins fault with the police in this case. Any fault finding is speculation pure and simple.

Well no a dido we are not speculating anything.

We are saying how can anybody say she died of natural causes when nobody of medical qualification has examined her.

And as for the vomit story. What rubbish. There was no vomit. But we will never know anyway, because guess what no pictures were taken. And why did the maid check on her hours before checkout time. I repeat.

Nobody knows the cause of death, because she has not been examined yet.

I certainly agree with you that we do not yet know the cause of death. Even so we have 24 pages of conspiracy theories.

As you claim there were no pictures, for you to know there was no vomit you must have attended the scene. Please tell us what you saw.

This thread for most of us is trying to prove the Burmese guys didn't do it. Thailandchilli has just made a great post and all of a sudden Greenchair is back to the shorts. Even showing a picture of a small pair of blue shorts, calling them a small pair of black shorts. And he's off about his jandal again.

And he makes a statement that they could well have done it, just not on their own. Deflecting is what they call it.

I think Greenchair is the latest member of the fab 4 thus making them the fab 5.

I think you're way off base with your comments about GC.

We do not know everything regarding the DNA , but I can tell you this . if they had sex with her in the first place , as the DNA shows , that alone would make them the main suspects.

If it was that clear then it seems strange that the it took several times for the courts to accept this case! Surely matching DNA from the B2 on Hannahs body would be enough for the case to be accepted straight away as the logic of the last part of your sentence implies.

That's why it's imperative for the Brit Coroner to do her job - determine (as best as possible) who matches the DNA found in/on Hannah. Thai cops have done too many obfuscations, in this and other cases, to be trustworthy.

This is not the coroners job. Her role has been explained to you many times and you will not accept it. If you cannot accept what the role of the coroner is, including that she cannot proceed until after the trial, how can anyone rely on what you say? You refuse to accept what you do not like.

Secondly, even if it was anything she could come up with would be pure speculation based on the information available to her. The fact remains that we will not begin to unravel the DNA, like so much on this thread, until the trial. The prosecutors/police have stopped putting details into the public domain, and quite right too, so the picture will remain unclear until the trial. Perhaps it will not even be cleared up then. We shall see.

Some of us were under the impression that the British inquest was scheduled for Jan 6. Now we hear it was supposed to be a review, and even a review is not possible, because Thai authorities are not cooperating. It sounds like another way Thai officials can slow down and otherwise detract from an investigation. Why are Brit officials so hamstrung by Thais. Can't the Brits do anything independently? The bodies of the victims were shipped to Britain. Some of the basic things the Coroner is paid to look for (wounds, weapons used, drugs in blood) should have been done within days of receiving the bodies. DNA traces are more of a question, because it degrades quickly.

For the Coroner to withhold ALL their findings, seems to me to be a dereliction of the duties. They're not a private firm paid by victims' families. They're paid from public coffers. They're paid (and given offices and equipment) to serve the British public primarily, and secondarily to help people everywhere. Helping people, would include contributing to rid Ko Tao of murderers and rapists who are still, very likely, roaming free there. Hello Brit Coroner's Office: Do your jobs, and quit shirking your responsibilities while hiding behind the soiled skirt of legalese liquid bullcrap.

Unfortunately you haven't a clue about the purpose of a coroner it seems. Firstly they are not having a criminal trial to decide who committed the crime. They decide 4 things

Who.

When.

Where.

How.

And then make a judgement. They are not their to run a trial in Thailand.

It is normal procedure to hold case reviews before the final hearing and this is what they are doing. There is no hurry to complete on a specific date and as a trial is underway they will conclude when the trial is over.

As for findings at a postmortem this is dependant on the condition of the body. It may well of decomposed considerably. They will have been as thorough as possible. They do not withhold this report and the defense has requested it. They will not be posting it in full or exerts on Thai Visa.

Perhaps you expect to much from them or perhaps nieve to what their purpose is. Whatever it is you are incorrect in you accusations.

In trying to understand what an inqest does, I've compiled a few key points, which somewhat sincs with what LD mentioned above:

>>> It is usual for the coroner to hold an inquest when a death occurs within 24 hours of admission to hospital.

Re; KT murders: it's been 15 weeks (a lot longer than 24 hrs) and the general public won't expect to hear anything from the Brits until a year after they got the bodies, at the soonest

>>> An inquest is held in public.

....Presumably to inform interested citizens. Yet there are indications that as much as possible will be withheld from the public. I hope I'm wrong, but I won't be surprised if pressure from Thai authorities will squelch findings (to the public) as much as possible.

>>> One purpose of an inquest is to determine 'How the deceased came by his/her death.'

I've already known the inquest is not a trial, and they're not looking for culprits (though they should be). However, determining 'how the deceased came by his/her death' may also include putting forth a DNA trail. I'm going to assume Brits will dodge that also, so as not to piss off Thai authorities (by implicating those who really did the crime). Plus, Brit experts are unlikely to have any of the DNA typing of those who should be prime suspects - because Thai officials won't share crucial data with the Brits.

>>> “Interested persons” are permitted to ask questions.

That could be an opening for Loonodingle. Perhaps he/she could go as representing a quorum of interested parties of Brits (and other foreigners) who reside in Thailand. We're interested because we would like dangerous people found guilty of the crimes they committed - so they're taken off the streets, and aren't lurking around looking for new victims.

At least one of the lawyers for the defense should go to England and ask questions of the Coroner. Unfortunately, the actual inquest may not take place until after the trial. If so, that's tough luck for the defense, and good news for the prosecution.

As I have said before some people need a reality check. An inquest is a judicial hearing.

There are many cases where a coroner has to open an inquest. Death within 24 hours of entering hospital is just one. Violent and unnatural death is another. Death from illnesses related to mining is yet another.It does not mean there will be a hearing within 24 hours, although the inquest is usually opened within that time for identification and then adjourned.

Yes. If there is a hearing it will be in public and you can go along if you wish.

No country in the world would release important evidence such as DNA to another jurisdiction ahead of a criminal trial. It is not just Thailand.

Interested persons can ask questions if they have a locus standi . This does not include posters on Thai Visa. Usually the coroner does not answer questions, she asks them of witnesses.

A court that hears a murder case is higher up the judicial food chain than a coroners court. That is why the murder trial takes precedence. That is why the coroner's court cannot return a verdict which conflicts with the higher court. You really must get in touch with the realities of the judicial world.

In UK the coroner is not Quincy M E. She has to comply with law and procedures. She is not there to help with your vendetta against the headman and his clan, even if the headman deserves it. I do not know him and I pass no judgement on this point.

If you do not like what the coroner is doing why don't you write her a letter telling her your views. Don't try to get others to do it for you.

Some of us were under the impression that the British inquest was scheduled for Jan 6. Now we hear it was supposed to be a review, and even a review is not possible, because Thai authorities are not cooperating. It sounds like another way Thai officials can slow down and otherwise detract from an investigation. Why are Brit officials so hamstrung by Thais. Can't the Brits do anything independently? The bodies of the victims were shipped to Britain. Some of the basic things the Coroner is paid to look for (wounds, weapons used, drugs in blood) should have been done within days of receiving the bodies. DNA traces are more of a question, because it degrades quickly.

For the Coroner to withhold ALL their findings, seems to me to be a dereliction of the duties. They're not a private firm paid by victims' families. They're paid from public coffers. They're paid (and given offices and equipment) to serve the British public primarily, and secondarily to help people everywhere. Helping people, would include contributing to rid Ko Tao of murderers and rapists who are still, very likely, roaming free there. Hello Brit Coroner's Office: Do your jobs, and quit shirking your responsibilities while hiding behind the soiled skirt of legalese liquid bullcrap.

Please read Loonodingles post 1197 very carefully. He has set out the position exactly. I said much the same earlier in this thread before the 6th January. I did not add the fact that there will be no hearing in the event of a guilty verdict, but this is the case. In fact I have doubts that there will be a hearing in the event of a not guilty verdict.

The coroner will have no findings at this time (perhaps a post mortem report, but will not be made public until the hearing if there ever is one). To over simplify a bit, the coroner's sitting with a jury, role is to determine the identity of the deceased, time date and place of death and cause of death (accident, misadventure, suicide, murder etc). As Loonodingle said it is NOT the corners job to do a police investigation. It will difficult for the jury, who are responsible for the verdict, to come to a verdict unless all witnesses testify and are cross-examined. Since most are in Thailand and cannot be made to go to UK there will be some problems.

It seems a lot of people on this thread are under a lot of false impressions. As I said before some people need a reality check. You cannot expect a coroner to fail to comply with the law just because you want her to.

The serial killer David Berkowitz the Son-of-Sam murderer was caught because someone noticed that there had been a parking ticket issued near the most recent murder scene and he was found by tracing that parking ticket.

That may be the one referenced above or maybe not but that was someone being alert who lived near the crime scene at the time of the most recent crime and not by people getting together pre-internet and saying what about this and what about that.

In the San Francisco region of California, police were stumped by a serial killer they dubbed 'The Zodiac Killer'. They couldn't decipher some coded messages, so they opted to publish one of the notes in the SF Examiner newspaper. A couple of regular (but bright) people in the suburbs were able to decipher the notes, and that led to capturing the bad guy. If it was a similar scenario in Thailand, the police would laugh at any suggestion to involve 'outsiders.' would tell you that the police are the professionals, and anyone outside offering an opinion (or possible evidence) is a 'conspiracy theorist' and input from them is worthless. Qualification: perhaps that closed-minded attitude would only happen when police and the gang of 4 decide to be shielding of particular well-connected people. I'm not sure if they would act that way if they had a vested interest in actually finding and nailing the real culprits - whomever they may be.

That's a nice story but the 'Zodiac Killer' of the SF region has never been apprehended --

The Zodiac Killer was a serial killer who operated in northern California in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The killer's identity remains unknown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiac_Killer#Suspects

I stand corrected. I thought he was caught. However, the gist of the story is that regular folks (would call them conspiracy theorists) proved helpful in a breakthrough in the case, which cops couldn't untangle. In contrast, we have the KT case, where the cops don't want any outside input, unless it's something which might further implicate the Burmese. They don't want to hear or see anything which could implicate the protected rich guys.

Perhaps I read Wiki wrong, but there was no break through.

Had no trouble in Jomtien a few months ago. Took both books showing full amount transferred and letter from bank.

How does the fact the case has been put back affect the British inquest or Coroners report ?

Lets not forget the inquest/report was due to be on 5th of Jan or there abouts. This was at a time when the trail was set for February.

My guess is not much. He will still want to see what transpires at the trial. Also, after the trial he will be more likely to get information from the Thai authorities. As far as I know Thailand does not hold inquests, but if it did and the positions were reversed UK would not send much info ahead of the criminal trial.

Another thought. I believe there are in fact 2 inquests. It will be interesting to see if both coroners take the same approach.

In Thailand, the police, the prosecution, even the judge are all on the public payroll, are they not?

In the UK, the 'experts' sent to KT, and the Coroner are also on the public payroll.

Indeed, the PM's from each country are paid by taxpayers. They're ALL SUPPOSEDLY WORKING FOR TAXPAYERS, the general public.

Added to that, they should all be working for the best interests of the general public, and one of those interests is to find, prosecute and jail criminals.

We already know Thai officials are inept at crime investigations, are very subjective, and are quite possibly being paid handsomely by outsiders to skew evidence - toward an agenda-driven result.

However, we harbor hopes that Brit experts involved with this case are adept and seeking to serve the general public.

Ideally, all officials looking at this case would be working as a team - to solve it, and get very dangerous people out of the public domain. From what 'Cruncher' described, the Brit coroner seems to acting independently of others. I can fathom that he's limited in the scope of what he can look for and deduce, but shouldn't he be interested in safeguarding future potential victims? If he just says something like "the murder weapons were a blunt object and possibly a blade" ....then that doesn't further the investigation nor keep vile people off the streets. But again, perhaps he doesn't give a hoot about what's right or wrong. Perhaps he just does his job in a clinical way, much like the lab techies who type the DNA.

In sum: we've got all these salaried people, many of whom are professionals, being paid by the general public to do respective jobs. They should coordinate their efforts and serve the public who pays their salaries. If not, they're in dereliction of duties ....or their myopically defined duties are too restrictive, and their job descriptions should be amended so PEOPLE WORK TOGETHER FOR THE PUBLIC WELL-BEING..

Your frustration is easy to see and I sympathize with a lot of what you say. The fact is though the coroner has to work within the powers given to him by law and follow accepted rules, guidelines and protocols. He can't just do his own thing. There might well be a lot of legal technicalities that I do not know about.

Where more than one jurisdiction is involved there are always problems and this case is no exception. As an example if the murder occurred in UK the coroner actually has the power to commit a suspect for trial for murder or manslaughter. (That power may have gone now - I am not sure.) But this does tend to show the coroners powers are reduced when the murder occurred overseas.

As I said, I have not come across a case like this and I am not sure how this will pan out, but my best guess is the the inquest will be adjourned until after the trial. We shall soon know.

I do not understand why so many expect so much of the British police. They were here to observe and not to investigate. What the Thai police told the UK police we do not know (nor should we at this stage). Equally the British police cannot put into the public domain anything they have been told in confidence, although they may have told the victims' families in confidence.

It is totally unrealistic to expect the Thai authorities to supply evidence to an overseas jurisdiction ahead of any criminal trial in Thailand. That would be the same in any country. The criminal trial has first call on any evidence.

If the criminal trial was to be held in UK, the Coroner would be required by law to adjourn the inquest until after the trial. The Coroner cannot return a verdict inconsistent with the criminal trial (unless the law has changed recently). What the position is if the criminal trial is overseas I do not know, but common sense suggests it would be the same or similar at least in practice. The most you are going to get is "unlawful killing by persons unknown".

Some people need a reality check on what Britain's role and powers are in this case.[/quote

What rubbish. The coroner cannot return a verdict inconsistent with the court. It is not the coroner duty to make any verdict at all in regard to guilt or not guilt of any persons. The coroner would postpone investigation until after court by law more rubbish. The inquest is delayed now because the coroner is seeking more evidence. The brit police cannot share any information they may or may not have simply because of the Thai death penalty. The brit cops may well have dna of b2 or dna of mon they would not share because death policy.

The coroner is completely independent and impartial to all parties. No court would have the power or even the wish to stop a coroner from presenting their findings that may exonerate or incriminate, but ensure evidence is accurate.

Sorry you are wrong (as I said unless the law has changed recently). If everything was in UK, the Crown Prosecution would inform the coroner that there was a trial pending and there would be no hearing at all except for identification.

The reason is fairly obvious. Suppose for example the coroner returned a verdict of suicide (although perverse) that would effectively scuttle any criminal prosecution for murder. Of course it does not apply to this case, but the principle is there.

How would this British police get DNA from B2, or anyone else in Thailand for that matter? Like I say some people need a reality check.

In reality the corner only does an investigation through coroners officers, who are police officers. He can, of course, direct enquiries, but in the end most of it is down to the police.

I have a lot of experience of homicide investigation and coroners' inquests and I can tell you that you are wrong. The only caveat I would include is that I am not sure of the position where the criminal trial is outside UK. I never dealt with a case like that.

It is just possible that the coroner would rely on a PM done in UK and return a simple verdict of unlawful killing by persons unknown. I doubt it though.

I do not understand why so many expect so much of the British police. They were here to observe and not to investigate. What the Thai police told the UK police we do not know (nor should we at this stage). Equally the British police cannot put into the public domain anything they have been told in confidence, although they may have told the victims' families in confidence.

It is totally unrealistic to expect the Thai authorities to supply evidence to an overseas jurisdiction ahead of any criminal trial in Thailand. That would be the same in any country. The criminal trial has first call on any evidence.

If the criminal trial was to be held in UK, the Coroner would be required by law to adjourn the inquest until after the trial. The Coroner cannot return a verdict inconsistent with the criminal trial (unless the law has changed recently). What the position is if the criminal trial is overseas I do not know, but common sense suggests it would be the same or similar at least in practice. The most you are going to get is "unlawful killing by persons unknown".

Some people need a reality check on what Britain's role and powers are in this case.

Let not also forget that at the exact same spot the night before the murders 4 Thai guys also mugged 2 UK girls, same spot on the same beach http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11111774/Thai-motorbike-gang-mugged-British-women-night-before-backpacker-couple-were-murdered-on-Koh-Tao-island.html

I must have missed this one. I am surprised that it has not gained more transation on this thread. I suppose it is because of all the focus on on the B2 and the Headman's familiy.

Mugging is a crime of violence that sometimes gets out of hand. If it is true that the police have no interest in such crimes, a repeat performance by the same gang in the same location is at least a possibility.

Anyone have any more details? Was it indeed reported to police?

DM07, on 29 Dec 2014 - 04:45, said:

DennisF, on 28 Dec 2014 - 13:55, said:

boomerangutang, on 28 Dec 2014 - 13:45, said:

at the get-together. . . .

If there's a guitar in the room, I could play some renditions of....

'Only You' (Platters)

'Under My Thumb' (R.Stones)

'I'm an Apeman' (Kinks)

'Teenage Wasteland' (Who)

'Midnight Rambler' (Stones)

'I'll Be Watching You' (Police)

. . . . . sing-alongs, ok.

Since I put the angle grinder through my left hand a couple of years ago you may well be short a Bass player.

Anything Rod Stewart sang I could play, plus meatloaf and many 80's bands...

Could even do Smokie!!!!

If ANY of that happened, I would have a bloody guitar in my hands by the end of the evening!

Dislike! LOL. Nevermind Midnight Rambler, I think we could add Sympathy for the Devil, Streetfighting Man and Gimme Shelter by the Stones to Boomeragutang's list .

This is a thread about the horific murder of two young people and their families' reactions.

How come we have got into parties and the music to be played.

The uncivil insults throughout are bad enough, but this is sick.

JOC - no need to feel sorry for parents who claim they are satisfied with the police work performed during the investigation just for the sake of getting closure, ridden out on the back of innocent patsies. Ever since reading that statement I have no respect and no sympathy for them anymore, sorry!

Here a brief list of what their parents are satisfied with:

1) RTP allowing bystanders and prime suspects to trample about and invade the crime scene.

2) RTP completely ignoring tell-tale findings such as:

a) Shallow stab wounds at David's head and shoulder (concentrating on right hand side, implicating a left handed attacker of similar height)

b ) Bone fragment, tooth fragment, brain matter and blood splatter in a circular pattern on the rocks behind Hannah, implicating an execution style, close range gun shot to the forehead while she was seated, to later be covered up by smashing her head with the garden hoe.

c) No DNA samples taken from under Hannah's fingernails (correct me if I am wrong)

d) Blood on Sean's guitar and stab wounds on his arms similar to David's.

e) Mafia head's son (prime suspect) disappearing for over a week (allowing him ample time to let Hannah's scratch marks on torso and arms heal).

3) The RTP letting key witnesses and/or accessories to murder such as Sean McAnna and Christopher Alanvare walk.

4) The RTP letting gangsters threatening key witness and/or accessory to murder Sean McAnna walk.

5) The RTP stating that none of the Burma DNA samples taken during the first days were a match, but later announcing that two of the DNA negative tested Burmese are the culprits.

6) The RTP, together with a racist pancake vendor, torturing the Burmese suspects into confession.

7) The RTP puppeteering the patsies around the murder scene while hundreds of witnesses could see that they were completely clueless about location of victims, which direction from they themselves were supposed to have attacked the victims, etc.

8) The RTP ignoring witness statements that mafia bosse's son along with AC bar owner followed the victims after a brawl over one of them fondling and/or pestering Hannah.

9) The RTP announcing that David and Hannah were killed with the hoe despite the fact that the hoe carried only Hannah's DNA.

10) The RTP denying british investigators access to all of their findings.

11) ...and the countless additional <deleted!> during the investigation...

If I would be a parent involved, I would scream in agony and rip that cesspit of an island apart with my bare hands!

You have no idea what the parents were briefed with, so right of the bat you start by making things up and vilifying the victim's families based on your own fantasies.

"1) RTP allowing bystanders and prime suspects to trample about and invade the crime scene."

They didn't properly secure the crime scene, wow, maybe you are not just talking nonsense...

"2) RTP completely ignoring tell-tale findings such as:

a) Shallow stab wounds at David's head and shoulder (concentrating on right hand side, implicating a left handed attacker of similar height)

b ) Bone fragment, tooth fragment, brain matter and blood splatter in a circular pattern on the rocks behind Hannah, implicating an execution style, close range gun shot to the forehead while she was seated, to later be covered up by smashing her head with the garden hoe.

c) No DNA samples taken from under Hannah's fingernails (correct me if I am wrong)

d) Blood on Sean's guitar and stab wounds on his arms similar to David's.

e) Mafia head's son (prime suspect) disappearing for over a week (allowing him ample time to let Hannah's scratch marks on torso and arms heal)."

Oops, I spoke to soon, you are talking nonsense.

a) Do you have any forensic pathology credentials to support your speculation based on pictures you saw on Internet? Who are you to make judgements on the nature of the wounds and how were they inflicted?

Gunshot... really. Because of splatter pattern... you have no idea what you are talking about. Evidence for this nonsense besides your uneducated guesses?

c) You don't know, don't bank on it, arguments from ignorance are worthless.

d) Again the armchair forensic pathologist determining nature of wounds based on some photo you saw...

e) What mafia? You just make a claim and ran with it, plus complete speculation over injuries in his body. The less said about ignoring that the man in question has been proven not to had been on the island the better, yes?

"3) The RTP letting key witnesses and/or accessories to murder such as Sean McAnna and Christopher Alanvare walk."

After interrogating them and collecting samples, you'd like to keep them locked up for the duration of the trial to satisfy your self righteous outrage?

"4) The RTP letting gangsters threatening key witness and/or accessory to murder Sean McAnna walk."

The police also interrogated and collected samples from those "gansters"

"6) The RTP, together with a racist pancake vendor, torturing the Burmese suspects into confession."

They were not tortured into a confession, they claimed they were threatened with torture.

"7) The RTP puppeteering the patsies around the murder scene while hundreds of witnesses could see that they were completely clueless about location of victims, which direction from they themselves were supposed to have attacked the victims, etc."

Puppeteering the patsies... of course, first make up a premise then derive conclusions from it, no wonder your conclusions agree with your preconceptions.

"8) The RTP ignoring witness statements that mafia bosse's son along with AC bar owner followed the victims after a brawl over one of them fondling and/or pestering Hannah."

What witnesses and how do you know they ignored them? You are just repeating rumors.

"9) The RTP announcing that David and Hannah were killed with the hoe despite the fact that the hoe carried only Hannah's DNA."

In their confession the Burmese men claimed they used a bottle to hit Miller, you are cherry-picking (mis)information that suits you.

"10) The RTP denying british investigators access to all of their findings."

No, they didn't deny access to all their findings, they gave them information when they came to observe the work done by the RTP, you don't know the extent and or relevance of the information they received, again, argument from ignorance.

11) ...and the countless additional <deleted!> during the investigation...

Oh well, case closed then.

Bugger off and let us do our stuff for the kids..........OK........You make me sick..........

Oh that's great. When you have run out of logic to support a argument resort to obcenities and abuse. Now we know who is right.

@ aimbc

Here is a short section from the coroners advice handbook.

Inquests are almost always held in open court, where the public can attend.

Journalists may also attend and report what has taken place.

The coroners office will not release any information to the media which has not

already been made public through an inquest, unless the next of kin gives his

or her consent.

This means that any member of the public can go to the inquest.

Im pretty sure there are members on here who may attend.

Oh thank you. very informative.

I believe it is usual for inquests to be adjourned sine die where there are pending criminal proceedings. I presume that will happen in this case.

Thanks everybody. Shuttle looks good; think I will give the heli a miss.

I will be visiting Phuket soon for the first time in many years. Things change.

I would appreciate advice on the best way for 6 people (including a couple not so young) and luggage to get from the airport to Patong.

Thanks in advance.

even the CCTV footage from the crime night, which shows Nomsod.

That is your opinion and your opinion, as much as it may hurt your ego, is not a fact or evidence of anything.

It's also the opinion of hundreds of thousands of others who have compared the video footage with photos of Nomsod. And it could be used as evidence against him - even though that would anger the gang of 4, and Thai officials. But rest easy, dude. Even if the B2 are acquitted, none of the Headman's people will be indicted. They're already clear, and will remain so. That's ensured by the Headman and his friends in high places.

"It's also the opinion of hundreds of thousands of others"

When you make up things like that, do you honestly think you sound convincing?

Not made up.....completely factual. You choose to lie and cheat like your Thai Police and criminal friends, then fine. We see you!

Could you please state the source of your statistic that hundreds of thousands of people have a particular opinion.

I am not asking about what is on the CCTV footage, the number of views of the CCTV footage or even who is or is not guilty of this horrible crime. I would just like to test the credibility of your claim as to numbers with a particular opinion and with it your own credibility.

Cgt is not assessable for long term non residents.

My understanding is that this will change on 1st April 2015. If you have any information to the contrary I, and I suspect many others, would love to hear it.

Pattaya is fine, the police here seem to know which side of the bread is buttered....

Yeh. Both sides.