adammike

3 hours ago, malagateddy said:

Obviously they do make use of such things..but the British Taxpayer picks up the tab on health-care..I know this for a fact.
Just the same as a Spanish person receiving eg health-care in the UK.
The bill goes to Spain.

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Yes but there has to be infrastructure to enable them to get health care ,hospitals equipped with trained staff etc houses and apartments built connected to water electricity,internet and so on.

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Not tebee or adammike.

I don't do maths I just quote actual numbers and percentages,as usual brexiteers try to blame everybody but themselves for the cluster and refuse to accept their responsibilities and ownership.

4 minutes ago, billd766 said:

But what you and most Remainers ignore is that almost 13 million voters couldn't be bothered to vote and you claim most would have voted to remain.

 

All they had to do was get off their arrrsssseeee and do it, BUT they didn't care enough to do so.

 

If you split the non votes in the same proportion that the Leave and Remain groups got then the Leave vote would be proportionately lager than the Remain vote.

 

It really does not matter which way you try to twist the result, you cannot change it.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brexit#Referendum_result

 

 

United Kingdom European Union membership referendum, 2016 
National result Choice Votes

%Leave the European Union 17,410,74251.89%

Remain a member of the European Union 16,141,24148.11%

Valid votes 33,551,98399.92%

Invalid or blank votes 25,3590.08%Total votes 33,577,342100.00%

Registered voters and turnout 46,500,00172.21%

Voting age population and turnout 51,356,76865.38%Source: Electoral Commission

I don't claim anything I just point out that you brexiteers claim that 52% of the electorate or the population voted leave! That is simply not true so stop saying it.

10 hours ago, vogie said:

Maths has never been the remainers strong point has it.????????????

It was 52% v 48% in the referendum but that 52% is only 37-38% of the Electorate not 52% of the electorate.

On 12/5/2018 at 4:33 AM, vogie said:

Spin it as much as you like chomper, the majority of the British Electorate voted for brexit, I know you are not big on democrasy, what suits chomp, but I agree with you on the lies.

 

 

You may spin and deny but the Tory party and all those who voted leave are responsible for the cluster.You own Brexit all of you who voted leave.P.S the majority of the British electorate did not vote leave 37% of the electorate voted leave

On 12/5/2018 at 5:16 AM, Aforek said:

45 kmh, it's pretty fast for a bicycle; you don't think that in future, there will be a sort of licence to use it ?

How is it in other countries ? 

Most are ok to 25kph, the high speed bikes need a number plate and a moped license as well as third party insurance as a minimum, that's here in the Netherlands and they are moving to get the mopeds and scooters off the bicycle lanes and onto the roads in the city's that means helmets will be compulsory.As the high speed bikes are relatively newish they are making the rules up as they go along.Don't hit anybody without insurance.

10 hours ago, malagateddy said:

Grouse..I tell the TRUTH ... I am not a trendy eu loving socialist like some people eho post on this Forum.
Like it or lump it..Blair and co. have a heck of a lot to answer for..opening floodgates re uncontrolled immigration..Iraq ..illegal war.
Now Grouse..have a laugh..google the Blair Miranda..read about blair..mandelson etc!!!

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We all know that about Blair a Labour prime minister taking the country to war was against everything that we trendy EU loving socialists stand for that's why he doesn't get a say in policy,also it's the reason we have the useless JC in charge.

10 hours ago, rixalex said:

You mean, what about the rights of tebee, grouse and adam, and the other 1 or 2% of Brits living in the EU.

So we're back again to the wants and needs of this tiny proportion of the population.

Not that your wants and needs aren't important. But what you are doing is putting those wants and needs, like your desire to live and work freely and easily in the EU, ahead of Britain's need to have a fair immigration system that treats all immigrants equally.

Your freedom throughout the EU comes at a cost. It's a cost to people living in the UK who have immigrants turning up in their neighbourhood who haven't been vetted or tested at all, to see what useful contribution they will bring to society if they are planning on staying long term; and there is a cost to non EU immigrants who are being discriminated against since they are not also afforded this laissez faire open door attitude as well.

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I've found you all, been missing you,did I miss anything?

3 hours ago, rixalex said:

As far as playing of the racist card is concerned, you need to look within within your own camp, judging from remainers on here expressing the view that they would rather Britain receive unvetted, unscreened EU immigrants, than African or Asian ones who HAVE been tested to show their work and language skills, on the basis that African and Asian people "aren't like us" in the way Europeans are.

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Lies.

 

'...hardline Brexiters are fearful, and so they should be, because if that vote does transpire they will certainly lose. A fitting ending to an Eton inspired mess....' 

 

...or to put it in it's correct context -

 

a total reproach of the the largest electoral turnout in our history - the will of the majority, all 17.4m of us, being ignored and our democratic decision overturned.

To put it in other terms - the death of democracy in our nation. If this does happen it will be the end of an epoch - a tragic day for anyone with a mind and a conscience. And one things for sure, it would not be the end, it would merely, I fear, be the beginning of a long and potentially bloody decline in the UK, which would see the country become angrier and more polarised then ever before.

 

How very sad that you and others like you are willing this conclusion. 

Bring it on,why did I have the last post playing in my head while I was reading your post

 

JRM is a fool - he's good at playing the part of a Toff, but is a man of no real substance, breaks down when faced with difficult questions.A soundbite pollition 

 

Farage is also someone who likes to play a part - the bloke down the pub in his case - he withers too under difficult questions 

 

D Davis is just lazy - probably incompetent too, but he never puts enough effort in to be sure either way.

 

boJo Is cleaver, but uses that intelligence to avoid doing work - he too plays the loveable buffoon, but is a nasty piece of work who would sell his own grandmother if it bought him political advantage. 

 

I've no idea what Hoey is doing in the Labour party   

Don't fall for his nonsense he is on a wind up,he's graduated to throwing a dead sheep on the table as his cats aren't garnering enough attention. 

 

10% is perhaps being a little generous? ????

 

I don't make the same distinctions as you though. Brexiteers seem to have among them some of the more intelligent and able politicians.

Compare these two sets as an example.

 

JRM / Farage / D Davis / BoJo / C.Grayling / Kate Hoey / Gisela Stuart and M.Gove.

 

vs

 

Clegg / Milliband / Cameron / Soubry / D.Abbott ???? / E.Thornberry ???? and T.Blair! ????

 

No contest. Whatever you think of their personal politics, the Brexiteers have the intelligent, knowledgeable politicians in the fold - they generally a have damn sight more integrity too. Not Gove/BoJo so much, perhaps, but you get the point....or probably don't, as the case may be.

 

Now you are taking the piss.

 

As your focus on numbers Remember that less people voted for Remain

It's ok for the brexiteers to claim it's the will of the people but not ok to have a peoples vote.

 

Pwllheli...?

Near Holywell Flintshire.

24 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

This same old tired rhetoric being wheeled out yet again eh?. 

 

27-28% of the population voted for Brexit.

This is not an argument. How many of the remainder were either not eligible to vote at the time or not on the electoral roll? This would likely be the same (if not less) in the event of a re-run. People die and people become of age to vote. The numbers stay roughly the same. The one thing that would change these numbers more significantly is people getting themselves on the electoral roll of their own volition. That may happen in the event of a re-run, something tells me it probably won't, though. 

 

37-38% of the electorate voted for Brexit.

You seem to be ignorant of the fact that those who do not vote do not count in the democratic process, by default! BTW: I can totally understand why people don't usually bother to vote, especially at national/general elections, but this was neither - it was a special (supposed) one-off vote that was given to the people to decide on - regarding one specific issue, and don't forget it was the largest voter turnout in British History. 33+ million people is a huge electoral turnout for the UK - way above anything else we have ever had and the majority of that electorate voted FOR Brexit. That says a lot!

 

You won one ballot on one day.

This is how voting works mate, it happens over a short period and isn't a continuous drawn out process over many days or weeks, for (what should be) obvious reasons. So again - what is your point here? I don't think you have one.

 

You can spin it any way you want but you can't call it "the will of the people".

Very simply - yes it was, yes we can, and we will. Because this is the truth of the matter, inconvenient though it may be for those who didn't get the result they desired. Don't like the current system we have? Then how about proposing a new way of voting?

 

The Brexiteers lied about everything, there are legitimate questions about their finances and foreign influence still to be answered.

There were undoubtedly a lot of lies, exaggerations and distortion of facts put out by both sides, but to be fair, Remain were by far and away worse in this respect. The spending/foreign influence arguments are purely conjecture and none of it has been proven and I doubt ever will be, there is nowhere near enough evidence, the spurious conjecture is all we ever hear of course. I wonder why? The exact same accusation re: government funding, inflated spending allowances & BBC partiality was leveled at the Remain campaign too don't forget. Far less coverage of that of course. The BBC acting as a virtual mouthpiece for Remain for one thing, that inequality is rarely if ever taken into account by Remoaners.

 

Whatever the outcome the countries of the UK are hopelessly divided.

No argument there! Here's to hoping that those who didn't get their way grow up & attempt to unite going forward. It's well overdue at this point.

 

I won't go into the Labour / Corbyn points, but I would like to ask you this:

 

Just say that Remain had won, and you had got your wish for us to stay in the EU no questions asked - in ALL honesty - would you still be making the same erroneous claims that you are?

 

And secondly, let's say the worst case scenario comes to fruition and we are forced into a 2nd ref., we have it and the result comes out at around the same small margin - but with a defeat for Leave, but this time we see a smaller proportion of the population/electorate voting, as I think would be the case, not least because of Brexit ennui; let's say 20% of the total population vote and of that 20% the electorate is reduced to around 30% for Remain vs 28% for Leave, will you still be making the same strident claims about 'the will of the people'? Something tells me you definitely wouldn't and here lies the problem - these trivial claims are just total hypocrisy on your and a great many other Remoaners' behalves. 

 

Lastly, just say we do have the referendum a 2nd time and the result comes back with another slim margin victory for Leave, will you and every other Remainer promise to shut up and move on with your life? 

No,I'm retired it's the highlight of my day winding you up.I'm off to north Wales tomorrow for a month, walking the dogs every day.Back to Amsterdam 6 Jan get my visa from the Thai consulate arrive Bangkok 16 Jan till 7 March.Don't do anything to f!#k up the euro from now till January please,behave.

1 hour ago, smedly said:

please explain, consider the fact we have not left yet in your answer

More dead cat strategy.I don't have to explain anything it's you brexiteers who will be doing the explaining.

3 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

 

I'm still of the opinion that it is you who will be sorely disappointed, with the possibility of a 'people's vote' being simply that... The audacity of such a name too, unbelievable condescension.

It would seem there isn't time for the government to draft a new bill to put through the Houses / vote on and pass the bill (as they can't agree on the price of tea right now), and then allow the public to vote again - many of whom, I'd wager would abstain or stick to their original opinion. It would then have to be enshrined into UK law. 3 months doesn't seem long enough, but who knows, the amount of skulduggery going on within UK politics, corners could be cut it, so it can't be ruled out. The public's collapse in confidence would be dramatic and long-lasting though, IMO.

 

Bottom line is, the people have spoken and made themselves clear, if that decision is not listened to then democracy is simply whatever the political class want it to be and is no longer dictated by the people - the game would be up. Democracy = (lit.) rule by the people. This infers that our voices are heard and our will listened to, by majority rule. Especially in the instance of national referenda, NOT - 'oh, uh, we didn't like your first answer, have another go, please'. If we are to call ourselves a democracy and keep a straight face, then the people must be listened to. It can be dressed up in any number of ways by those who got the shock of their life in 2016, but the result still stands. Gina Millar and her band of patronising cohorts like to say for example that the issue was too 'complex' for the nation to vote on. Although I dislike her smug arrogance, she does, to some degree, have a point. However a referendum was what was offered to the people, as the gutless politicians didn't want to make the wrong or 'unpopular' decision themselves, so they gave this 'power' to the people. If this is your chosen course of action as a government, spineless in many respects though it is, then you'd better bloody well listen to what the people tell you to do. Otherwise the veil of democracy is liable to fall altogether and people will see modern politics for what it is. The second point worth making about the suggestion of a 2nd ref. is this - if everyone (who didn't get the result they wanted) is so exercised about a referendum being the way the decision was made, and that the issue was and remains a far too complex one for the man/woman in the street to answer - then why on earth would you favour a rerun?!? Totally illogical - unless, perhaps - you're desperately hoping for the first result to be overturned - and imagine that with the aid of project Fear 24/7 and the inevitable political incompetence transforming things into an almighty clusterf*** - you may get just that result. Then the points being made about the first referendum are conveniently forgotten and suddenly referendums and their results are valid once again. Pretty damn subversive, if you ask me. Why any ordinary member of the public would support this kind of subterfuge is unfathomable.

 

The danger now is that Brexit may only be a nominal one, if the 'deal' gets through parliament that is, which still seems unlikely. If it doesn't, well then I just pray that we leave as we were promised we would. Simply meaning no 21 month transition period, no 'divorce' settlement, no 'bespoke' deal - the UK didn't vote for this anyhow. The country simply exits quietly and unceremoniously on March 29th 2019. WTO rules ensue and we take our future in our own hands and make the best of it, restoring long overdue independence and some much needed confidence in our nation and democratic legitimacy. A cull within the political class is sorely needed too, of course.

Should this happen then I and many millions more democratic Britons will have a little faith restored in our country and a little more hope for our future. Fingers firmly x'd.

The numbers that matter are 27-28% of the population voted for Brexit.

37-38% of the electorate voted for Brexit.

The referendum was 52% leave 48% remain.

You won one ballot on one day.

You can spin it any way you want but you can't call it "the will of the people".

The brexiteers lied about everything,there are legitimate questions about their finances and foreign influence still to be answered.

Whatever the outcome the countries of the UK are hopelessly divided.

One good thing is that the campaign for another referendum has put Jeremy Corbyn on the spot he is a leaver but the majority of the "members" of the Labour party are remainers so he has been "hoisted by his own petard" he was elected twice by the members after giving them the power to elect their leader over their MPs.

One way or another their will have to be an election and or another referendum and that may not solve the cluster that is Brexit.

2 hours ago, grumpy 4680 said:

          If the EU does not want to be more friendly and share security matters, then i would be asking for the UK to leave Nato as well, and let the miserable gits take care of themselves, They are certainly no longer allies.

That's funny a brexiteer who are miserable gits on steroids calling out somebody else for being a miserable git, you lot wouldn't know friendly if it came up and kissed you on both cheeks.

7 hours ago, Kim J said:

Maybe so. But deal with the establishment direct and most will prefer cash.

Whenever I book a guesthouse with Agoda or booking.com it's always pay at guesthouse cash only.

Keep your feet clean and dry and buy some anti fungal cream use it twice a day,oh keep your feet clean and dry, buy some rolls of kitchen paper and use it to thoroughly dry your feet before using cream.

39 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

Resorting to insults? Isn't it just better to admit that you're wrong? And what's it got to do with Brexit anyway? 

It's called the dead cat strategy,its how Boris Johnson operates.

26 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

It seems a bit odd to me that no matter how many times Leavers post this leaflet the Remainers deny what it means.

 

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160813202542/https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk

 

The referendum on Thursday, 23 June is your chance to decide if we should remain in or leave the European Union.

The government believes it is in the best interests of the UK to remain in the EU.

This is the way to protect jobs, provide security, and strengthen the UK’s economy for every family in this country – a clear path into the future, in contrast to the uncertainty of leaving.

 

This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide.

 

I have made it bold and underlined so it should me easy enough, even for teebee and AdamMike to understand.

 

The UK voted to leave the EU yet the government under Teresa May STILL wants to keep us in, thus ignoring the bold and underlined statement.

I have never questioned the result of the referendum or what was on the ballot,I have said from the beginning I would rather remain, failing that leave and do it fast as possible.If the UK leave without a deal I want it to be a total disaster so it destroys the Tory party for a couple of generations.I am not a fan of Jeremy Corbyn but I would be ok if he did become PM so he could bring the water,railways,electricity back into public ownership.You have blown Brexit as many said you would and now you want to pass the buck onto remainers who are not part of the process,Theresa May and Brexit are your bitches not mine,reap the whirlwind brexiteers.

33 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Actually it IS all about Brexit and Teresa May.

 

Whilst we Leavers voted to leave, the whole Brexit shambles has been led by Teresa May, a committed Remainer who is doing her best, or worst perhaps to give us a semblance of freedom whilst clinging to the EU apron strings. 

 

IF there was a committed Leaver at the helm from day 1 i assure you it would be a whole lot different.

Dead cat strategy 1.0