MangoKorat

I 'get it' completely - I get that now, instead of admitting that you are wrong, you are now going 50/50 by saying 'there becomes a point' bla bla bla. The actual fact is that you have a choice, you can pay your way out of a situation or you can refuse (if you know you are right). You cannot say I'm wrong, because I know it to be true. I refuse, others pay. At the start of your argument you were stating that its reality and claiming its what you have to do if you live in Thailand. Now you say that you do 'stand up' but only to a point. Which is it? You then move on to calling me naive - how can that be correct when I have proved time and time again that you don't have to pay the police - and that's the nub of it - you don't have to if you are sure you've done nothing wrong, That is plain and simple corruption and although you may not think so, you do have a choice. Yes, choosing not to pay may well cost you time, even money but for someone like me who is totally anti corruption, paying the police is out of the question. I'd rather go to court and end up with a bigger fine if I lost.

Really? Well its worked for 22 years, what makes you think it won't carry on? Listen, I (with the help of my Thai lawyer) took a major Thai hospital to court and they backed down and settled just before the court date. Ditto, with the same lawyer I took my ex Thai wife to court, she went to see a lawyer herself and settled before court. On both occasions I was told I was wasting my time - the old 'farang always loses' rubbish. Its nothing but bar stool rubbish - those who do get prosecuted have probably broken the law and those who have lost money to a Thai wife, either weren't entitled to it or haven't tried the Thai courts. They simply go on perpetuating the 'farang always loses' crap. Having said that, there will always be times where even the courts get it wrong but that applies to Thai's as equally as it does to foreigners. The 'farang' does not always lose - I have first hand evidence of that, where does your evidence come from?

Naive? I think I've explained fairly comprehensively why I'm not and others have also commented that their experiences have been the same. I would not be stupid enough to state that the police never take a cut - simply because I don't know that. What I do know is my experiences and those are that you do not have to pay the police. How can my experiences be naive? No, the police are not doing it for the love of their job but by both sides coming to an agreement, their job can often be made much easier - they don't seem to like working or filling in forms very much. Yes, I know very well that people do pay the police, its common knowledge but that's usually because they have been breaking the law - sometimes by drink driving. All I'm saying is that if you are certain you have done nothing wrong, you don't have to pay them. Get your phone out and start recording - see what they do. Its barstool rubbish and very much like those who claim they've been 'fined' for doing DIY on their home. They mistake police corruption for the truth, the stories perpetuate and become the truth in many people's eyes.. A member once posted on here that he had been fined by the police for working when all he had done was to drill a hole in the wall of his home. If that story was true, what he should have done was refuse to pay anything and ask for his day in court. I discussed that story with my Thai lawyer who stated that it was rubbish - there wasn't a court in the land that would have fined him for doing that and he should have refused. The police have learned that they can squeeze cash out of some foreigners so they try - next time you have a problem and you know they are wrong - grow a pair and refuse.

More barstool and mug talk. I've never been in a serious accident in Thailand but I can think of 2 mates who have. One was at fault, not sure about the other but the one thing I am sure of is that neither will have given the police a single baht - they both think like me. You might like to 'wake up' as you say - things are changing. Thai's are even starting to stand up to the police - not seen the news stories of them recording incidents of attempted corrupt police activity on their smartphones? The police wave them on. I don't need to wake up - I've spent a considerable amount of time in Thailand over the last 22 years. I've driven/ridden literally hundreds of thousands of kilometers and never once have I paid the police or knowingly taken part in any form of corruption. Perhaps its you that needs to wake up?

And why would I have a problem with that? I drive totally legally in both the UK and Thailand.

He's completely unhinged. There's so many different things that he's done and that he's likely to do that its actually become boring. The UK News programmes have been totally consumed by his antics and policy making (or unmaking) for the last 4 months - its been like a daily comedy show but its a show that I now turn off. He can get on with his stupidity for all I'm concerned, I'm sick of hearing his name. However, there are 2 areas where I remain angry at his stance and one of them is a problem for all of us. The man who said Covid might kill 90-100,000 people in the USA (now almost 1.2 million) and suggested that bleach might offer a cure - has taken the USA out of the Paris Accord and is trying to introduce policies that harm the environment - once again Trump knows better than the scientists. What he's doing could very easily take the planet past one of the 'tipping points' the scientists have been warning about. The same man said he would stop the war in Ukraine within 24 hours - to the best of my knowledge its still raging. And before any of you climate change deniers get on your soapboxes - go sit in a room, light a coal fire with no chimney and smoke 40 fags a day - see how long you live. It doesn't take Einstein to tell you that what humans have done to the Earth's atmosphere since 1750 is totally unsustainable. We've also done a lot of other damage but the atmosphere is the most pressing. I actually hope the US economy goes down the pan - yes it will also do severe harm worldwide but if it makes his MAGA supporters realise what a deluded, lying lunatic he really is - maybe the world won't have a similar problem in the future.

You are still failing to read my posts correctly. Where did I say I live in Thailand? I don't. I am not wrong or 'very wrong' but you are. I drive perfectly legally in both the UK and Thailand. I obtained a Thai licence previously because the nearby National Park would allow foreigners who lived in the area to gain entry at the Thai price if they showed evidence of living in Thailand. A driving licence with a local address was accepted for that at the time but it isn't now. My 5 year Thai licence expired during Covid and as there is no benefit to me holding one at the moment, I haven't applied for a replacement yet. I am not resident but I visit often. I hold a UK full licence together with an IDP so I do have a valid licence. The insurance brokers for both my bike and car have also confirmed that they are happy with my UK licence. I will be applying for a new Thai licence later this year when I finally make the move to live in Thailand. So the scenario you refer to above is not going to happen, my insurers would not refuse to pay because when I drive in Thailand, I do so perectly legally. I did on one occasion, get pulled over for speeding when I actually was. On that occasion I didn't argue with the copper but I did insist he put the carbon paper in his book before issuing me with a ticket - something he wasn't too happy about. I only question the police's accusations when I know I'm right, such as when they tried to fine me for being in the 'wrong lane' when they hadn't even asked where I was going so could not accuse me of that. That and the several times (in the past) when I've been pulled over for supposedly speeding without any evidence whatsoever. If that's arrogance - so be it. I wouldn't be stupid enough to argue with the police if I knew I was in the wrong. If you've done nothing wrong, you do not need to pay them - that's worked for me for 22 years. Fortunately, as far as driving is concerned, they don't seem to pull foreigners over so much these days. For the last few years I've been waved through at every checkpoint. I won't take part in any form of corruption whatsoever, yes it does handicap me sometimes when I want get something done but I deal with that. I have taken part unknowingly like when I was charged 500 baht for residence certificates to apply for my driving licence and bank accounts. Corruption is a disease that holds a country back, it prevents development, keeps the poor poor and the rich rich.

That's an argument I've heard time and time again but my experience has been the complete opposite. I stand up to them if I know I'm in the right and its worked for me for 22 years. I've had Thai friends visibly gobsmacked that I dare to challenge a cop who's making up the usual 'you go too fast' crap etc. Most of the time the cops are just trying it on with foreigners - when you stand up to them (politely) they almost always back down and wave you on, they can't be bothered. They also know that there is more likelihood of there being some sort of backlash if they try it on with foreigners. Years of court cases for what? I've never been in a serious accident but I know of a few that have and in all of those cases, the police actually acted like a mediator and encouraged settlement. 'Cause that's what happens here' - is it? You know that for a fact or that's what you've heard is it? As far as I'm concerned its just barstool talk or at best, the experiences of people who don't have the spine to stand up for themselves. If people stopped paying the police, the problem would go away. I've been involved with court action - as the plaintiff, twice in Thailand, both cases I won and on both occasions the courts themselves actively engaged in getting the parties to settle before court. Yet the barstool folk say 'The farang always loses'. Having a decent lawyer on hand can be helpful if you are in the wrong. Paying bribes very much IS supporting corruption - just like all the Thai's that moan about the police being useless and ripping them off - but they pay. In the right or wrong, they pay. They can't moan about corruption and take part in it.

Yes but is it beautiful in the dry season? I was up around Nan and Chiang Mai a couple of weeks back and the place just looks brown and desolate. Nan to Uttardit via the Sirikit Dam was much the same although a lot of 'burning' had also been going on making it worse. Apart from locals the only foreign bikers I came across on the entire trip was a couple of guys on CRF's that lived locally. That's the first time I've been around there - I need to go again when there's greenery around. I came to the conclusion that January to April isn't the best time to tour much of the North.

So you're one of those that thinks drink driving is OK? Police corruption is also OK?

I had exactly that conversation with a girlfriend yesterday. I recalled hearing my ex MIL ask "does the farang want to eat" in Thai. She had no idea that I knew what she'd said. I told her that I am a person and I have a name, how would she like it if I said "does the Thai want to eat". The term farang' can be offensive and it can be bloody annoying. It used to be that it was often used offensively by Thais but its become so common these days that I think its rarely is used offensively. But why do we have to have a 'label'? We all have a name. If you don't speak Thai, you won't know if its being used offensively or not and as I say, it can be both. It would be much easier if they just stopped using the term - dream on. Its become so common now that I often hear Westerners using it and even dropping the R for an L in the typical Thai mispronunciation way - falang. Upshot is, I must have explained it pretty well as my girl said she fully understood and would stop using the term - advising her family to do the same. Let's see.

Will there be anything left of the USA when Trump's term ends?

I think you've misunderstood. I AM talking about major brands like Pirelli - like for like. I saw a pair on Lazada today that are 4000 baht cheaper than they are in the UK. As for fitting, my local bike shop or Cockpit branch fit them for 100 -120 baht. The lesser known brands you mention may well be OK but I'm always wary when it comes to tyres. We had problems with some of the Eastern European brands of car tyres in the UK a few years back. Tyres were de-laminating, shedding tread, blowouts and all sorts of other nasties. A blow out in a car can be bad enough but on a bike, at the speeds I ride?? No thanks. So I tend to stick to the well known brands when it comes to bikes - although I have no doubt that I am being ripped off every time I buy them. Hopefully someone will have tried some of these Lazada cheapies and can opine on whether they are genuine or not.

It says 'Parking exceeding 24 hours will be charged from the first hour again' - whatever that means? I take it that it means you will be charged per hour from the start. In any case, I don't think its really intended as Long Term.

Please read my post fully - I stated that I am not resident. As far as I know I do not need a Thai licence unless I stay longer than 12 months.