TroubleandGrumpy

Everything that is written in the Thai RD Tax Code is written specifically for salary earners and recipients of income in Thailand, who are tax residents. It has been and still is my belief that unless a person has to pay income taxes, then they do not have to lodge a tax return in Thailand. The vast majority of Thai citrizens do not lodge tax returns - a google search indicates that only 6-9 million people lodge a tax return out of a population of over 50 million over the age of 18. Unlike other countries, the Thai RD does not want everyone to lodge a tax return. The application of everytghing in the Thai RD Revenue Code is not automatic, as some people think - otherwise every single person leaving Thailand would be fined 1000 Baht for not getting a tax clearance. When it comes to application of the Code, it is not automatic that it will be against all money received/earned overseas by Expats and remitted into Thailand. DTAs have a big impact on those forms of income, as does the application of the Thai RD Tax Code in each and every single situation (and as directed by the Thai Govt). So does the application of the tax laws in Thailand against Expats (which have not been tested in a Court - yet). No part of this 'new rule' ramifications have been 'tested' in a legal manner (Court), and the Thai RD often loses Court challenges. Depending on how they implement this new rule change, they are going to get a lot of new 'challenges' by Thai citizens for changing a system used for 30 years, with 3 months notice. I am not keen to lodge a tax return in Thailand - ever. I do not believe Thailand has the legal or moral right to force retired or married Expats to do so - unless they are using their Visas to avoid taxes overseas, or are earning money in Thailand. That viewpoint is based upon how Thailand legally treats retired/married Expats. Legally and technically, all Expats staying in Thailand long term are doing so as a tourist - we are not here as an immigrant - the 90 day reporting and annual renewals is due to the Visa being an extended tourist Visa - that is why we have the same 'legal rights' as a tourist. Thailand does not and cannot legally tax tourists, unless they are earning income while they are in Thailand. There are Visas that actually give legal rights (such as the LTR), but the standard Visa that most Expats used when entering Thailand, is an extended tourist Visa - we are all tourists (visitors). But I am not going to take that legal 'argument' further and get it tested in the Thai RD Tribunal or Court - only because that would be extremely expensive. I will also point out that there is SFA arrangements in place at the Thai RD for the lodgement of a tax return in Thailand under which the terms and conditions of a DTA can be utlised. Both the written and online versions of the Thai RD tax lodgement do not cater for that situation. Therefore, should any Expats wish to lodge a tax return and claim that certain money is not taxable under a DTA with their country, it will be an expensive exercise if we use a tax expert - and it could be very expensive if it goes to a Tribunal. Plus I am certain that the Thai RD does not have the time and resources available to manage that anyway, should every Expat who receives over 120K Baht from a Pension lodge a tax return claiming they owe no taxes (or a very small amount) due to their interpretation of a DTA. Who the hell at the Thai RD is going to be able to deal with exemptions claimed under the DTAs that Thailand has with over 60 different countries. Unless I am working/earning income in Thailand (legally available only with a work permit), then I see no legal reason for a retired or married Expat to pay income taxes. My calculations are that they get zero from myself anyway, but it is the principle of the matter. When a Thai Court has ruled that Expats can be legally charged a much higher rate in a State hospital, because they are not Thai citizens and have more money, that clearly states we dont have the same legal rights as a Thai citizen. And there are so many other situations (like dual pricing, courts, etc.) where it is very clear what our/my legal status is in Thailand. Implicit in that is that we dont have to pay income taxes Thailand will find out soon enough that if they start applying income taxes against many Expats (especially their Pensions) then they will not stay living here in Thailand full-time. Obviously some Expats have no choice and cannot easily move out, but many Expats can and will either just visit Thailand (<180 days), or they will take up other options. It is no coincidence that the Taxation Minister in Malaysia, who introduced this same new rule in 2022, has stated that they have no intention of taxing the money of retired/married Expats that they bring into the country. As she said that is wrong because that is all 'new money' being broguht into the country, and it would be a massive disincentive for Expats to bring money into Malaysia if it is going to be taxed. The implementation of this new tax rule is about removing the loophole that allowed citizens and companies to invest their money (earned in their country) overseas and to then bring that money back and not pay taxes on the earnings made on that investment overseas. The associated 'global taxation' system that is now being employed in many countries, is about stopping people living in one country for long periods, just so that they can avoid income taxation in another (and money laundering).

We recently drove around in Isaan - up to Korat to Ubon to Yasothon to Roi Et to Khon Kaen and back again, and then down through Surin and Buri Ram to Korat. There were less fires (smoke plumes) than there were on previous trips - but there were still fires here and there - some were openly burning their lands near the main roads. But unless the Thai Airforce water bombs the huge amount of fires in Cambodia and Laos and Myanmar, it aint going to make much difference when the wind comes from their directions.

So you applied for multi-entry retirement Visa and it was not approved and they gave you single?

The information I have received from my enquiries to both the ATO and local legal firms is something along these lines: the new tax law in Thailand at the moment is as you can see is still quite vague, and we hopefully will have a more clear idea of how this affects visa types and nationalities specifically in the coming months once it has been implemented and trialed by the authorities I have received no officlal reply from the ATO - both from an email and an online 'application' - only references to website information (like below). What is clear under the DTA is that as long as you are a tax resident of Australia, you do not pay any income taxes to Thailand on any money revived in Australia - even if you are also a tax resident of Thailand. There are several rules/regs about what is an Aust tax resident - best way is to take the test blow. I am an Aust tax resident - and wil be for at least 2 years - so Thailand will get none of my age pension for at least 2 years. But after 2 years it becomes 'problemmatic' maintaining tax residency in Aust while not living full-time in Aust - each person has to ascertain their own status - or seek a private ruling from the ATO (I have done that and was told 'several months delay'). Questions | Determination of residency status – leaving Australia (ato.gov.au) Applying for a private ruling | Australian Taxation Office (ato.gov.au) I am very/extremely doubtful that the definition of assessable income used by some people on this forum is correct. My read of the Thai RD tax guide is that assessable income means taxable income. I am certain that the Thai RD does require Expats to report all the money they remitted into Thailand from their own personal saving - or from other non-taxable sources such as inheritences or property sales made overseas (that was bought with their owen money from overseas). However rental payments received from property overseas is taxable income.

To the uneducated an educated person is strage - likewise a wise man to a fool. Not sure who is what - I think maybe one of us is an uneducated fool. But like I said - lets agree to see each otjher that way.

I was once told that 'they dont send their best and brightest there mate'. Now I really understand exactly what he was saying and really meant. Question - How the hell would I know anyone's IP address and location ?? R U Lot Serious??

Idiotic and stupid - you are beyond silly and into the twilight zone with all that khrapp. Now that I have responded to your insults with my own. If you seriously do not know that Thais in general have an attitiude towards Falangs (some good and some not so good) then you are not a person that lives in Thailand - or only in/near bars. Lets just agree to disagree. Have a great night - hope you find a good one. Bye.

Good to hear. IMO someone can criticise Israel - but justifying what Hamas did is way over the line. Anyone who agrees with Hamas doing what they did is not a decent human being - they are the exact opposite.

Absolutely - becaue they are trying to avoid 'civilians' - while Hamas are trying to get them killed - deliberately. If Israel was to employ massive indiscriminate bombings and kill them all - that would be rightly criticised and not OK in world opinion. Personally I feel they should do that - but they are not going to that extreme - yet. If Hamas uses a nuclear device against Israel - they will - immediately - and the west bank too - fully supported by USA. Undoubtedly the next target would be Syria and/or Iran the probable source of the nuclear bomb - and then Iraq and/or Lebanon if they attack Israel. Ditto for Pakistan. And guess what?? WW3 would not start. That is all total BS. The first world countries are sick of the Muslim terrorists and would not leap to their defence against Israel and USA - China, Russia, USA, Europe, India, France, UK, etc etc - have all dealt with them and will not take their side. And Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan will all stand aside. That IMO is the reality of the situation and Israel is willing to go that far - because this latest atrocious attack by Hamas was the final straw. Hamas will either be the destruction of them all (famatical Muslim terrorists) - or it alone will be destroyed by Israel.

I have only one response - do you know what sarcasm is mate. Calm down and have another one - relax - you might live longer.

Truly delusional - you are the epitome of the ignorant Expat claiming to know it all - Thais dont have an attitude to Falangs - you are clearly not in Thailand - or only ever in Pattaya?? Do you remember the TM30 debarcle - that law is still on the books mate. People like him/you doing the wrong thing are what causes the Thais to not modernise their immigration system - they dont want more of you lot here - and saying it is fine is truly silly.

You are totally and utterly wrong - I did not read past that ignorant statement.

R U Serious ? You sound like that youtuber who thinks Thailand Immigration is wonderful and there have been no changes since 2010 in order to crack dowen on the 'bad ones'. The bad ones are the reasaon why many Thais have such a negative attitude to Expats for decades, and why any discussion to make it easier for Expats to retire/marry in Thailand are immediately shut down. Yes Xenophobia and Corruption is a big part - but the bad ones are their best excuse.

Bugger - I was hoping you had blocked me. In answer - the truth is that fanatic crazy terrorists like Hamas make peace impossible.

Detroit Lions might just upset the applecart and pull this one off - brave I know. What say you guys? Winner is?? Jared Goff is very under-rated - and Lamar Kackson is very over-rated. Mahomes is a proven champion - and Purdy is unconvincing. It is all about the quarterback and how well he is protected - Chiefs have lost their best offensive lineman and Mahomes is used to having plenty of time.

Your 'friend' is one of the reasons us 'good guys' who are playing by the rules, have so many issues to deal with Immigration. They are trying hard to catch people like you/friend, and the rest of us have to deal with the consequences. I hope you/friend are blocked on your next entry and blacklisted forever. Reported to Immigration (your IP address and location).

You are stating lies and distortions as fact and using what a poster says to embolde your own argument. As I have proven many times, the history of the region and the Jewish claim to those lands is undisputed. Recent ownership has been with the Muslims - ever since they murdered and drove them out en masse when Islam became their religion and Jews became their sworn enemies. Not all Muslims agree with that - the vast majority in thge World do not - only the fanatics on the extreme (Hamas, Hezbolla, etc.). Many do not know this but the greates killer of Muslims is other Muslims - they have more 'sects' than the Chritians - but they are still very violent in resolving their conflicts (like Christians were). Those are things that are not in dispute if you have any idea of history. However, what is disputed is the BS about Palestine ever being a State or Sect (of Muslims). They are nothing but fanatical murderous terrorists using that BS to get their one and only goal - the death/removsal of all Jews from Israel. In regards to your only valid points - suck it up princess - that is history. After WW2 the State of Israel was created, and accepted by the UN, and the lands in a designated area were given over to them. Done. Over. Suck it up and move on. Every attempt by Muslim States to 're-take' that land was defeated - and yet Israel gave back lands after winning those wars and disputes. Plus they even forcibly removed their own people from Gaza and West Bank to try and achieve peace with PLO. That was a mistake - the fanatical terrorists used that concession and all the world's donations, not to build a society for the people there, but to embark on a campain of terrorism. Hamas and Hexbolla will never accept the existence of Israel - they will never cease until Israel is destroyed - that is their one and only goal. IMO the only solution, as proven by history, is the complete annihilation and destruction of either Gaza and Hamas and all its supporters, or of Israel and all Jews. There was never going to be peace between the West and Nazis - it was one or the other. But just remember and ask yourself - what happenned to all the Nazi supporters - were all Germans killed - No. Whoever loses - their supporters will just fade away into history. All the attempts at peace settlements and negotiations over many decades have failed - I say let them at it and lets see whose 'God' wins. If Israel backs down now, Hamas will regrow and again commence terrorist attacks. Let them at it - until one side is gone and becomes history. You might think that is extreme - but let me tell you a fact. Every single Hamas member and supporter wants to die as a Matyr fighting for their cause aghainst Israel. OK I say - Israel is going to let them have that and I agree 100%.

So anyone disagreeing with your delusions and pointing out the truth is an Islamophobe - that shows what sort of mind you have - delusional and seriously in need of help. What I write below is in response to your posts - but it is aimed at anyone willing to read/listen - you will probably have blocked me and I will be doing the same shortly. Since they murdered Jews at the Olympics the Muslin terrorists calling thermselves 'Palestinians' (no such country or caste of Muslims ever existed) have embarked on ever increasing terrorism as a means to achive their goals - which is the death/removal of all Jews from Israel. Only delusional ignorant and stupid people see these murderous cowards in the same light as the French Resistance - they are Terrorists - and as those two videos I posted yesterday from brave Muslims who knows them personally and bravely spoke up is just one of many many facts and proof. No Israel is not completely innocent in this 'dispute' - but Israel is more in the right than Hamas, and anyone saying that Hams and the people of Gaza are all innocents 'fighting' for their homeland is as ridiculous and ignorant as the woke liberal idiots protesting on the campuses of USA and elsewhere around the world.

Correct - writing a story about Palestine that starts in 1918 is total BS writen by the sort of academics that have recently been exposed in the USA - and forced to resign. Thank you for apologising after realising that.

That is the way to go. Come as a tourist - get a property lease - go see local Immigration Office and ask what they need you to get to be able to apply for a 12 month O Retirement Visa. Insurance is only mandatory for O-A Retirement Visa applied for outside Thailand.

If you read my link you will see that is total rubbish. The history of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel begins in the 2nd millennium BCE, when Israelites emerged as an outgrowth of southern Canaanites, During biblical times, a postulated United Kingdom of Israel existed but then split into two Israelite kingdoms occupying the highland zone history of jews in israel - Google Search

Well said mate - I wonder if the pro-Hamas side understand the irony of it.

Muslims can become full Israel citizens - many of them are - nearly 2 million.

There was no such thing as a Palestine - there never has been. The name started when the Rponas won the second Roman/Jewish war. The lands of the area were not what you think - especially Jordan - you need to learn some history.

There will be an end to the conflict only when one side is destroyed - whichever one. 1920s?? Are you serious - the Jews lived in those lands thousands of years ago. When WW2 ended there was still a lot of Jews living in those lands. When WW2 ended many more Jews returned to their 'homeland'. History of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel - Wikipedia