WDSmart

Nick, AGAIN, I said that I added my own remark in [brackets] in my original post. I didn't change any of the other wording. Here's what I wrote in my post: 16 minutes ago, WDSmart said: Here is the definition of "Zionist" in the Oxford Dictionary (the remark in [brackets] are mine): "a supporter of Zionism; a person who believes in the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel [but used to be Palestine].

I had to look up "Tsahal." I assume that's the same as what is referred to in English as the "IDF." In the previous post, I just meant to refer to any Hebrew militia over the past 100 years. I don't know the date that the "Tsahal" was formed.

Could you provide a link to your claim ? Nick, it's as I say in the post, from the online Oxford Dictionary. Just type "Zionist definition." Here is a link: zionist definition dictionary - Search (bing.com)

I sympathize with anyone who is forced to give up their land. That, in fact, is why I do understand why the Palestinians are trying so hard to prevent that from happening to them. I don't support most of their tactics, but I do understand their efforts at resistance.

Here is the definition of "Zionist" in the Oxford Dictionary (the remark in [brackets] are mine): "a supporter of Zionism; a person who believes in the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel [but used to be Palestine].

Nick, Yes, I agree that's the problem, but I at least understand why the Palestinians could feel that way. I don't agree with them, especially with their tactics in trying to repel the Israelis, but I can sympathize with people who do not want to give up ownership of their land.

This is a blunt lie that should be removed. Tsahal's people are the most dedicated and professional fighters on the planet. They have to get on with an enormous and ungratifying task, which they will carry out in the most humane fashion. It is Hamas who uses the population as human shields. But it is the population, probably driven by its hatred of Israel, that refuses to turn against the bloodthirsty, rapist war criminals. Ben, read these... Specific risks facing women and girls in Palestine | United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs - occupied Palestinian territory (ochaopt.org) How colonizers weaponize rape: reflections from the Palestinian case – Mondoweiss

I do repeat what I believe is the "Palestinian narrative." You repeat and presumably believe the Zionist narrative that all that land belongs to the Hebrews. I disagree with that.

I don't "embrace" it, but I do acknowledge it and am convinced they believe it. And, your embracing of the Zionist narrative doesn't make it true either. That's why we disagree.

Morch, No, that's not what I claim. I don't fully embrace either side's narrative. I hope there will be a peaceful settlement to this conflict eventually, but I doubt that will happen. I don't deny Israel's claims. I know they believe them. They are based on their holy book. I also don't deny the Palestinians's claims. They have lived in this territory for thousands of years and are now being asked (forced?) to share it with the Hebrews. Do you deny that? As I said, I hope they can work this out without the present atrocious conflicts, but right now, I don't see any end in site.

I'm sure that is true, and I'm sure a lot of Israelis don't approve of all the actions taken by the IDF. But this will be an "endless conflict" because both sides genuinely believe the land in question is theirs. So until either one side completely conquers the other, or the two sides agree to share the land in some form, either a two-state solution or a one-state solution that guarantees equal rights for all, this conflict will be "endless."

ezzra, I'm sure that's true. But I suspect it's also true of the Palestinians and most other people, for that matter. So, not only the "terrorists" (Hamas) should understand that but also the Zionists (Hebrews who are intent on taking over Palestine). That, in fact, has been the brunt of all my messages so far...

And you just had to edit the post replied to, of course.... Anyway - I was not advocating Israel conquering and holding on to anything. You, on the other hand, are cheer-leading the opposite. That difference. I put "regaining their homeland" in quotes because that is not true of the Israelis. Palestinians are trying to hold onto their homeland. Israelis (Zionists) are trying to conquer someone else's (Palestinians') homeland.

Nonsense. Just watch and see what happens...

I was wrong in saying that. I do not follow all the day-to-day details on the IMFs invasion of Gaza. They have invaded the north and are now moving into the south. They will continue until they control all of Gaza, and I'm sure they'll then remain there.

Yes, both are wrong. ALL MY POSTS have included my agreement that Hamas has committed atrocities, both on Oct 7 and in the past. I am not pro-Hamas. Most of my posts are in response to people "complaining" about Hamas. I'm just trying to remind them that the blame for all this should not be placed only on one side.

Yes, that is something I claim, and you can see it happening by looking at how the maps of "Palestine" and "Israel" have changed over the past 100 years.

And, the Israelis "regaining their homeland" essentially implies the destruction of Palestine. That, in essence, is the root of all this 100+ year conflict.

Yes, I agree. And now, all the talk about Israel knowing about the Oct 7 attack but failing to act leads me to SPECULATE that they grossly underestimated Hama's ability to carry it out and chose to allow it to happen so they would have an excuse to go into Gaza. Whether that is true or not is really not important now. Hamas attacked on Oct 7 and committed many atrocities, which, of course, the Zionists in Israel are now using as justification to completely decimate Gaza. That's my interpretation of what is now happening. This interpretation places blame on BOTH parties and is not intended to give support to either one.

Yes, I agree with everything you said above, especially the last sentence. That also applies to the Zionists in Israel. They want to completely take over what used to be called "Palestine" and either expel all non-Jews or allow them to live in what is now called "Israel" as some lower-class citizens.

I say it was wrong, just as I say the actions the Zionists in Israel are taking in Gaza now. IMO, they are BOTH guilty of war crimes and have been for well over 100 years.

And from the other perspective, the Zionists in Israel (which used to be called Palestine) have been waging war on the Palestinians for well over 100 years, trying to completely take over their country, which they've effectively done with help from the UN. Now, Palestinians have been compartmentalized into two small areas, Gaza and the West Bank, while the Zionists in Isreal continue to take over land and squeeze them even further. None of this justifies the actions Hamas took on 7 Oct, but neither does it justify the actions the Zionists are now taking in Gaza. They are both guilty of atrocities (again), and I'm sure they will continue.

I'm not "antisemitic." (And just FYI - "Semite" includes BOTH Hebrews and Arabs, not just Hebrews. Look up its definition online.) I am anti-Hamas and anti-Zionist. I'm not really either pro-Palestine or pro-Israel, but between those two, I am more sympathetic to the Palestinian point of view, which is to regain control their homeland which is being taken over by Israelis.

Yes, and thanks for expressing your views. Unfortunately, Bkk Brian is not capable of doing that when reacting to posts with which he disagrees. All he apparently is able to do is to revert to calling names.

I agree war crimes were committed by Hama.s and am sure also by Israel in response.