Mike Lister

You are absolutely correct of course. But there again, my Royal London Global Select is 72% US and has realized 29% in one year, which prevents me from buying the S&P Index fund (which is the right things to do).

Some thoughts on trading: It is better to trade today than wait and trade another day. Trading is such sweet sorry. Trade in May and go away. It is a far far better trade that I make now than I have ever traded before. Clearly, I have no thoughts on trading, I prefer to invest. 🙂

Probably, I can't recall that I consciously changed my view on this, perhaps I am 50/50 and that neither option would surprise!

If you want to go back to 2015, as in your example, that would be a clear valuation. But doing so, forgoes the gain from 2015 to 2023 which is also tax free. I was trying to see a way to maximise the transfer and keep the gain to the minimum.

Yes for sure you're OK if you report it to Customs but I'd assumed that wasn't going to happen, if it was, why not just do a SWIFT transfer and reduce risk.

For me, the solution for this is pointing more and more towards the role of the banks and reporting transfers to the Revenue, who then follow up or don't.

Yes, I suppose you can do that within Thailand and it may work. But trying to withdraw cash in one country, fly it over here and then try to deposit in cash at a Thai bank, I think will be problematic.

The bigger problem with carrying large amounts of cash is, what do you do with it when you get to your Thai home? If you put it in the bank, the teller will probably make a note or raise a flag somewhere. In the past I've withdrawn 2 million Baht in cash and walked it across the mall to another bank and deposited it there and nobody said a word. Today, I'm not so sure you can do that any more.

Taking the house sale example: If the house was sold before 1 January 2024, the proceeds, including any CG, are free of Thai tax, when remitted to Thailand. If sold after 1 January 2024, the picture is not as clear cut. If there was a reliable valuation dated 31 December 2023 and the split between capital and the gain could be easily and reliably calculated, remitting the capital would, as you correctly state, be free of Thai tax. There are two problems here. The first is obtaining a reliable valuation as of 31 December 2023, that can be done easily with financial instruments but it's far harder to do with an asset such as real estate. The second problem is whether the Thai Revenue would accept that valuation or whether in the case of a capital gain, they will insist that the gain is apportioned. Since we don't know what the Thai Revenue position is on this, (although Dogmatix might because he seems to have some insight into RD working/thinking) we're very much into assumption. The key is in the ability separate capital and gain, precisely and reliably and the TRD acceptance of the method used. Next is the Credit Card option you mention: There's a short write up in the Simple Guide that describes foreign credit card usage overseas and the assessability of those transactions. It lists the salient points in the debate and says that it has not concluded, the answer at this point is there is a good possibility they might be. Last up is the accessibility of borrowed funds that are remitted: I have no idea on this point, sorry.

Not taxable here. Anything earned before 1 January 2024 is exempt from Thai tax.

It depends on the source of those funds, whether or not they are already taxed, when they were earned, etc etc. Suggest you read the following:

If those funds were earned before 1 January 2024, there is no Thai tax issue, similarly, if they are not assessible funds, and the person is not tax resident here, there is also no Thai tax issue.

A big change in my neck of the woods, as far as I can see....today we're at 42 degrees a year ago it was 37. Ten years ago it was 36. https://world-weather.info/forecast/thailand/chiang_mai/april-2023/

Yes, I agree in bold above. The year of remittance alone is not enough, the year the income was earned is the other issue.

There's a discussion underway currently in the long tax thread on the subject of whether or not funds remitted to Thailand in a year when the tax payer is not tax resident are taxable or not. The emerging picture is that those funds MAY not be taxable. If that continues to be the case, it will be important to ensure the funds are not remitted to Thailand in a year when you are tax resident here (180 days or more in a calendar year). Regarding the transfer to a fixed account: I strongly suspect that it is not possible to transfer directly to a Fixed Account and that the funds must be deposited into a feeder account first, something such as a regular savings account. I have had that same issue in the past with UOB where a feeder account had to be used. Why? There's no logical reason as far as I can see, other than the fact a Fixed Account is fixed by date and duration and the passbook will need to confirm those things. But given that rates here, even on Fixed Accounts, are so low, I wouldn't be overly concerned at losing out on quite small amounts of interest.

If the UK State pension is remitted to Thailand monthly or quarterly, it is frozen at the same rate, every month for every year, the P60 will be largely irrelevant as the amount swill always be the same, as will the unmatched tax years. The only variable in there is the exchange rate.

There has been much discussion over several months about remittance and residency but some aspects have yet to conclude satisfactorily. The open item at the end of the Simple Guide has existed for three months and is this: L) - income that is earned in a year when the taxpayer is tax resident but not remitted until a year when they are not tax resident, is it later tax assessable in Thailand? Assuming the taxpayer in question is a foreigner: one field of thought is that the person could be Thai Tax Resident in Year 1 and store earned untaxed income overseas. In Year 2 they become not tax resident in Thailand and remit those funds to Thailand in the same year. In Year 3 they return to take up Thai residency again and are taxed on Year 1 earnings/Year 2 remittances. Maybe that's possible but it doesn't pass the sniff test at first glance. If it is possible, it means that all anyone has to do is to take a 186 days holiday outside Thailand and remit their income whilst away to escape all Thai tax!

Just checking that you understand the tax tax tables are stepped, only the mount of income that falls within that step is taxed at that level of the step. There is an open issue about the tax on funds remitted when not tax resident and whether they could be taxed later, despite not being tax resident at the time of remittance. That issue is logged at the end of the Simple Tax Guide and is awaiting clarification. My personal opinion is that the government will not want to allow this tax rule change to impact the Thai property market, hence the idea that imported funds used to buy real estate here, will be taxed, seems improbable. How this will be operationalised or what measures put in place to prevent a negative impact on the property market, is very unclear.

I know that chap, he just got drafted into the army.

No! The word "from" is missing in that statement, as identified shortly after the document was posted and as discussed on the preceding page. Tax is still based on remittance, nothing has changed. That sentence should read, "And who receive income from inside or outside Thailand

We certainly can do that: OVERVIEW OF THE TAX LAW 3) Thai tax laws require Foreigners who reside in Thailand for one or more periods with at least 180 days in one tax calendar year and who receive income from inside or outside Thailand via: a) Income from employment (wages, salaries, remuneration, etc.) assessable under Section 40 of the Revenue Code; b) Income from business operations is assessable under Section 40. c) Passive or property income (interest, dividends, rental income, goodwill, pension etc.) based on Article 41 paragraph 2 of the Revenue Code. to assess their income for Thai tax and file a tax return, providing the assessable income threshold has been exceeded.

My compromise amendment to that para: OVERVIEW OF THE TAX LAW 3) Thai tax laws require Foreigners who reside in Thailand for one or more periods with at least 180 days in one tax calendar year and who receive income from inside or outside Thailand via: a) Income from employment (wages, salaries, remuneration, etc.) assessable under Section 40 of the Revenue Code; b) Income from business operations is assessable under Section 40. c) Passive or property income (interest, dividends, rental income, goodwill, etc.) based on Article 41 paragraph 2 of the Revenue Code. Everyone happy now?

You said lowest common denominator, I said average members ability! My recommendation is that the discourse stop taking place over the heads of most posters, if it is to be useful to most.

No thanks, it's already been demonstrated that dedicated tax guide threads don't remain dedicated for very long. I think that leaving all the tax discussions in the same pot probably best serves the members who want information, even if it does mean a slot of sifting through legal hypothesis by amateur American lawyers and accountants with spreadsheets. Sooner or later, some useful information is bound to surface somewhere. If anyone wishes to propose alternate wording for the challenge that has been raised, I'm happy to hear it. That said, for third time, the typre face in bold sets aside the previous arguments by many that foreigners in Thailand don't need to pay tax and confirms that the Revenue Code states that they do (even if the remaining verbiage is questionable in its presentation): Individuals, who are categorized as: a) Thai citizens; b) A Thai resident who filed taxes in the previous tax year; c) Foreigners who reside in Thailand for one or more periods with at least 180 days in one tax calendar year. And who receive income from inside or outside Thailand via: a) Income from employment (wages, salaries, remuneration, etc.) assessable under Section 40 of the Revenue Code; b) Income from business operations is assessable under Section 40. c) Passive or property income (interest, dividends, rental income, goodwill, etc.) based on Article 41 paragraph 2 of the Revenue Code.

The story as it stands is not credible. There are plenty of valid reasons why somebody may not have a copy of a tax return, simply, they don't need to file, just like over 50% of Thai's don't need to file.