Mike Lister

The web site belongs to Dezan Shera and Associates, a very large global firm with a substantial presence in Asia. https://www.dezshira.com/about-us/our-firm.html# The usefulness of the article is to describe to foreign residents in Thailand, in simple terms, the circumstances under which their funds transfers might be assessable, under which parts of the Revenue Code, AS SHOWN IN BOLD IN THE TAX GUIUDE. Individuals, who are categorized as: a) Thai citizens; b) A Thai resident who filed taxes in the previous tax year; c) Foreigners who reside in Thailand for one or more periods with at least 180 days in one tax calendar year. And who receive income from inside or outside Thailand via: a) Income from employment (wages, salaries, remuneration, etc.) assessable under Section 40 of the Revenue Code; b) Income from business operations is assessable under Section 40. c) Passive or property income (interest, dividends, rental income, goodwill, etc.) based on Article 41 paragraph 2 of the Revenue Code.

Please bear in mind that not all readers of this thread have the same academic stamina and qualifications that you do and the average members ability to understand the Revenue Code or a DTA is not what yours might be. My biggest criticism of the thread previously is that the conversations were too complex and hi brow for many to understand, which is why a more simpler dialogue became so popular. Expat blogs and any other reasonable form of narrative that puts things simply and provides anecdotal evidence, is usefully deployed here for many, this is not a court of law or a debate in the Supreme Court! I also think we can get a good indication from looking at what other countries Revenue departments do, if we want to understand how the TRD might behave in the future. Looking at gold standards or best practise or even most common practise, in the absence of first hand confirmation of local practise, is extremely helpful.

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/View-Rates/Foreign-Exchange-Rates

THB is still a restricted currency, it is not freely convertible. It can only be sent overseas in limited amounts to specific neighbouring countries, otherwise it must be exchanged for foreign currency beforehand, by the remitting bank.

It looks like that's the thing to do, Capital Economics makes a very sound case that the S&P might reach 6,200. The latest jobs report was a whopping 50% over estimates! That pushed expectations for a rate cut back substantially. But the case is now being made for higher asset prices, regardless of interest cuts and bond yields seem to support that since yields have now increased. Rates remaining higher for longer seems to be the theme and oil has joined that party, it's now over $86. Things that concern me are: - the difference in values between the US markets and overseas is getting even wider - higher oil prices don't impact the US but they cause great damage in other economies which combined with a stronger USD, puts EM at risk. - the above will hurt the Thai economy, equally as badly. Expect higher fuel costs to impact long haul tourist numbers.

I have read several times that the app will not allow you to transfer funds overseas, to an account in your own name. That is in keeping with BOT rules regarding overseas funds transfers that require specific criteria to be met and supporting evidence.

I may need to change my opinion on Gift Tax, I've been reading how other countries such as the UK treat Gifts and it's much more liberal than I had previously understood. Gifts from overseas, to UK residents are free of tax, that being the case, overseas gifts to Thai tax residents might also be free of tax (subject to limits). One question is whether the Thai RD would look at those funds first as a Gift, or as Imported Funds that need assessment, in other words, does the Gift aspect negate the need to assess them? https://community.hmrc.gov.uk/customerforums/pt/8d15fffc-4393-eb11-8ced-00155d9c86c6#:~:text=There is no income tax,be subject to income tax. The US also has liberal terms on Gifts, they impose a lifetime limit of Gifts which is in the millions of Dollars. On the Thai side: there appears to be a means by which previously given Gifts can be clawed back and reclaimed, under odd circumstances. The giftor can reclaim the gift from the giftee, if the giftee defames the giftor or refuses to provide funding for medical care in critical situations, when they are able to do so. "You can reclaim a gift if the recipient commits a serious crime against the donor, if the recipient seriously insults the donor or seriously undermined his reputation (defamation), and if the recipient refuses to provide the donor with the necessary assistance in the event of danger to his life . You must submit a claim in this regard within six months of becoming aware of the incident. There is also a statute of limitations. Theft, fraud and an attack on the donor himself can be a reason to revoke a donation. If it concerns defamation and insult, it must be serious matters. A wrong word in the family atmosphere can be too little; you have to think of public statements that seriously discredit the donor". https://www.thailandblog.nl/en/expats-en-pensionado/over-schenken-en-schenkbelasting-in-thailand/ Another aspect is that the Gift must be intended for the Giftee and used by them. My confidence level that we understand Gift Tax here is low.

Anything earned before 1 January 2024 is free of Thai tax, you only have to be concerned about income earned and imported to Thailand after that date.

The difference between us is that you're in the business of guidance, I'm in the business of providing information. I'll happily tell people what their options are and that's it, I'll leave it to others to tell them which one to pick. If this were the UK, I'd have no problem giving UK tax guidance but here, it's far too dangerous. On that note, my suggestion for commingled funds, is, don't commingle funds. Or if you really must, keep all the paperwork and understand at the detail level, how to decomingle funds.

You'd do better to look at the impact of USD strengthening when it comes to THB value. You'd also do better to look at RMB if you want to understand AUD strength or weakness. BOT rates aren't even in the picture. https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=THB&to=USD https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/index/dxy

You appear to be very cavalier about telling members to ignore this and that, which, whilst that advice may well appeal greatly to the common sense side of things, doesn't always match up with the way the laws are written. I on the other hand would feel much more comfortable presenting the facts, even if that means saying I don't know, and leaving others to make their own decisions.

That section is a direct quote from a law firm of some repute, nevertheless, I agree it is still somewhat ambiguous. I think I'd prefer to go with a single "from", as follows. OVERVIEW OF THE TAX LAW 1) Thai tax laws require a person to pay income tax to the Thai Revenue Department under the following conditions: Individuals, who are categorized as: a) Thai citizens; b) A Thai resident who filed taxes in the previous tax year; c) Foreigners who reside in Thailand for one or more periods with at least 180 days in one tax calendar year. And who receive income from inside or outside Thailand via: a) Income from employment (wages, salaries, remuneration, etc.) assessable under Section 40 of the Revenue Code; b) Income from business operations is assessable under Section 40. c) Passive or property income (interest, dividends, rental income, goodwill, etc.) based on Article 41 paragraph 2 of the Revenue Code.

You are in fine shape Ken, you have nothing to be concerned about. Your income is all mostly exempt, as we have discussed. In the extremely unlikely event you are asked to verify it is exempt, HMRC can easily verify those things quickly. Stop worrying, please!

I agree, I think the word "from" is missing, it should read, receive income FROM inside or outside Thailand". Do you agree?

I have no difficulty with members interpretations of the rules in this thread, the difficulty arise where others view the statements as fact or established precedent and decide to follow. The other aspect is me understanding what is reliable to include in future versions of the tax guide, it's for those reasons that I would like to understand what is what. Perhaps I will need to feed back assumed facts and reliable information from time to time, to get sign off and agreement, before issuing subsequent versions of the guide.

That also has to be assumption and opinion. I personally think that if somebody was gifted 20 mill, the RD would look at both the giver and the receiver.

The numbering in the Overview is wonky but the content remains valid, it should read as follows: OVERVIEW OF THE TAX LAW 1) Thai tax laws require a person to pay income tax to the Thai Revenue Department under the following conditions: Individuals, who are categorized as: a) Thai citizens; b) A Thai resident who filed taxes in the previous tax year; c) Foreigners who reside in Thailand for one or more periods with at least 180 days in one tax calendar year. And who receive income inside or outside Thailand via: a) Income from employment (wages, salaries, remuneration, etc.) assessable under Section 40 of the Revenue Code; b) Income from business operations is assessable under Section 40. c) Passive or property income (interest, dividends, rental income, goodwill, etc.) based on Article 41 paragraph 2 of the Revenue Code. I have updated the master copy and will update the forum version before long.

Para 53 of the master copy of the Simple Guide now reads: 53) Note: It is my opinion that only funds that are exempt from tax, or funds on which tax has already been paid, can be Gifted. Because Gift Tax is a domain of the wealthy and depends on local practise to some extent, there is a shortage of confirmed information on this subject. I do not believe it is possible to Gift funds that are untaxed assessable income, in order to avoid tax. Members wishing to exercise this option should seek qualified advice before using this option to Gift untaxed funds. I will update the above into the forum copy, as soon as practicable.

All of this is slap bang in the middle of "dunno" territory! The UK and S and other countries also, have additional laws that surround use of Gift Tax to reduce the risk of Tax Evasion but Thailand appears to have none. The US limits Gifts by monetary value, the UK by time and imposes penalties where that is not met. Working offshore and earning fee income that is not taxed and the transferring the funds to Thailand using Gift Tax, to buy a house, doesn't pass my sniff test, as much as we might want otherwise. It's Work in Progress that I'm happy for others to debate but which I will avoid..

I understand that and I don't think you're a bad person for doing it but it struck me that in your rush to express frustration as a result of the technology issue, you perhaps overlooked the other bigger issue which was what, face, pride, wealthy farang in poorer Thailand image....you get the idea.

Gift Tax statements have been problematic from the outset, mostly because of the lack of clear information and the fact it is primarily a domain of the wealthy that is reserved for hi-so's in Thailand and much depends on established local practise. The current statements derive from known documentation, combined with discussion in various threads and unfortunately, some logic. Part of that logic says that a foreigner cannot sensibly earn untaxed income overseas and import it into Thailand tax free as a Gift. That scenario is Tax evasion in the Western play book so I deployed the same logic here. I agree this is only an opinion and should indeed be indicated as such but since those statements had sat in the previous guide for a couple of months without comment on them, I felt it was safe to let them stand in the current version. I will attempt to go through the document again and mark up which statements are opinion and which are quotes but this will take time, that purpose was previously served by supplying quotes to source web sites where the full statements could be seen in full, but the quirky nature of quoting links on AN interfered and they had to be removed. Please bear with me on this point and it will be addressed. Perhaps more importantly, thank you for reading it and for your comments which I deeply appreciate. Having read the and re-read the same material so many times I am so close to it that I probably couldn't spot even obvious errors any longer, which is why objective assessment is extremely useful.

I think that was very rude and fails to consider where you are. Just because you think 20b is an insignificant amount, doesn't mean the person paying the bill does.

Looks like he's polished it too, nice job.

This is exactly the case. The word has finally got around and people have gone from ignorance to surprise to what if, to anger and now well into hypothesis. Folks need to go back to basics and remember what happened rather than listen to all the video hype from sales guys trying to piggyback on the change.

I don't, really. The recommendation I have made in the new Simple Tax Guide is as follows: COMINGLED FUNDS 57) Funds from various sources that are all contained in the same bank account are referred to as commingled funds. Trying to account for them separately can be difficult, unless you keep complete records that show the individual sources of those funds. Much of this comes down to individual discipline and the ability to retain and file receipts and statements. Some tax authorities have policies regarding commingled funds, policies such as LIFO, (last in, first out) which is primarily an inventory management technique but can be used with commingled fund accounts. We are not aware of the TRD policy regarding commingled funds or even if one exists. If you hold funds in this way, the two options open to you currently are, keep detailed records that describe all the feeds into a commingled account, or separate the sources into their own accounts.