The Cyclist

I think the start date of 01 Jan 2024 is a dead giveaway. Otherwise I would be running around with my head on fire, panicking about all the income I remitted to Thailand between 2009 and 2020.

Might be something to do with this https://www.xero.com/uk/programme/making-tax-digital/self-assessment-changes-mtd/

Snail mail, via airmail, from my pension providers takes about 6 weeks to get here. Not received anything, but could it be something to do with Self Assessment ?

I tagged you in because it was something that we had previously discussed. There has been others on the thread that appear to think that UK State Pensions are a Government Pension. They may well be correct, when the RD makes the distinction. I would prefer to err on the side of caution ( If it concerned me ) and expect it to be taxed and perhaps get a bonus if / when it is not. Rather than think It is a Government Pension and get shafted with a tax bill I was not expecting.

@Mike Lister Something you ( and any other UK State Pension holders ) might want to consider, which came about during a conversation I had yesterday. Government Pensions will increase by 6.7% in April. The September CPI figure released on Wednesday. Just as it has done so, for the last 20 odd years I have had a Government Pension. The State Pension will increase by either 8.5% or 7.9% in April ( ignore that it is frozen for pensioners in Thailand ) due to the triple lock. Which suggests that the State Pension is not a Government Pension or it would be increasing by 6.7%. Info only and not a suggestion or inferrence on how the RD will classify the State Pension for tax purposes after 01 January. Just something to be aware of.

The link supplied will not apply to many expat retirees in Thailand. Very few to none will be earning money in Thailand whilst working in the Philipines. For retirees the main bone of contention will be Pensions. Government Pensions are non taxable in Thailand due to the UK / Thai DTA. Private pensions are another story. Which is why I have removed mine from the equation and stopped it being remitted to Thailand Any other retiree who has any of the rest of the list being remitted to Thailand, might want to reconsider, until the muddy waters become clearer. Of course, people who are on retirement extensions and still working are a different kettle of fish.

Did you understand that link you supplied ? It covers- Company employees, working in the Philipines, bringing the money back into Thailand, where they have other Thai income in the same tax year. The tax credit must not exceed the amount of tax paid. I don't think the above will apply to too many expats, especially retirees. The above is covered in the initial announced and the the very first post in the thread, under the 3 sources of income that will be covered as ' Assessable income ' coming into Thailand. * Income from employment How many retired expats remit income to Thailand that comes from employment ?

I know But July 2023 was more up to date than 2022 as per the OP 😀😀

17 working days in July.

You really need to stop speculating. How many expats do you think are living in Thailand that have no income or income that is below Baht 150,00" a year ? Non I would wager unless they are working in the Thai Black economy. Again, nothing but speculation. Can you provide evidence for this ? Or is this another ' Somebody said it might / could happen ' so is now considered the gospel truth and nothing but the truth ? Yes indeed. That would be why myself and others, continue to post that US SSC and Government Pensions are covered by DTA's and will not be subject to Thai taxes. That is why everyone should have a look at the DTA that is pertinent to them and see if their income is covered by said DTA. It really isn't rocket science.

Makes absolute sense and falls into a comment I made above saying that in the worse case, we might have to file a Nil Return or something similar. To my way of thinking, remittances that are covered by a DTA will not fall under the bracket of assessable income. Assesable income being remittances that are subjuect to Thai taxation.

I have 3 accounts in Thailand * FCA. Last remittance Jan 2020 and would have had the RD doing somersaults with the amount of tax they could have collected. * Extension money account. Amount has never changed since it was opened. * Daily account where my pensions go. Which is about to drop to a single pension until clarity makes an appearance. None of them pay interest.

I know and understand the point that you are trying to make. The only answer available at the moment is ' No one has a clue ' In almost 15 years in Thailand, I have never filed a tax return in Thailand, I dont know anyone else who has filed a tax return in Thailand. That would include retirees and people working in O&G. The more I think about it, I think I would be correct in saying that I have never even heard it being a topic of conversation.

Just because it is tax free in the UK does not mean it is tax free when it is remitted to Thailand. If it is not covered by a DTA then it would be taxable when / if it is remitted to Thailand * * I make no comment on the ability of the RD department on how good or bad they might be at doing their job. ** If the figures quoted on Thai's not paying tax are correct, you might be able to draw your own conclusion.

Correct. And that source of income will either be covered by a DTA and therefore not taxable in Thailand. Or it wont be covered by a DTA and subject to Thai taxation, which you can either pay or spend a barrowload of money legally trying to fight why it shouldn't be taxed. Or you can make your own arrangements to stop that income being remitted to Thailand, whereby saving yourself grief, paying tax or paying legal fees to fight paying tax. Not really hard to understand.

The Global Warming deniers were the ones who had had to change script to Climate change. 6 documented Glacial and Inter-Glacial periods are testement to the fact that the Earths climate does indeed change. Not for the reasons that the tax them to the hilt and invent stuff lunatics claim. Sense of humour bypass operation was a roaring success.

That is probably just the heat signature from the structure in the OP 😀

The rules from the 01 January will have absolutely no effect on what you do in the UK regarding ISA's etc. They might be effected if you decide to remit that money to Thailand after the 01 Jan 2024.

Another glaring example of the war on Global Warming / Climate change is a big pile of horse manure.

The UK / Thai DTA can only be ' cancelled ' by the Thai / UK Government. The actual wording states something like ' In writing with 6 months notice ' I'm sure that every other Country / Thai DTA will have wording to the same effect. I am also sure that we would have heard by now if the Thai Government had made moves to ' cancel ' these DTA's. I think 1 of 2 things will happen. 1. A blanket amnesty will be announced, something to the effect that all persons on retirement visa / extensions that are from Countries with a DTA with Thailand are exempt these changes from the 01 January. 2. The worst case scenario is that we might have to file ' Nil Returns ' with the RD or some other method where we have to file paperwork with the RD, but being exempt Thai taxes. This would only cover income ( Pensions and such like ) that are specified in the relevant DTA. Do I think there is any need to panic - No Do I think that there is any need to make plans to flee Thailand - No Do I think much will change for most retirees - No Do I think that there are certain posters who are trying to spread fear and alarm - Abso@#$&*%&#lutely. Perhaps they could post the DTG of their next face to face with the Head of the RD and we can all rock up at the meeting and hear the doom & gloom straight from the horses mouth.

I have 2 pensions presently coming into Thailand. Both Pensions send me an annual P60 which shows the annual amount paid and the total tax paid. The both also send an Statement of future earnings. Which shows the monthly amount to be deposited and the tax deducted. It might be fair to think that all pensions that are above the £12570 UK threshold supplies the same information on an annual basis. No idea what the State Pension provides in the way of paperwork or pensions below the UK tax threshold. I suggest that if people are not receiving these, that they get ontotheir pension administrator / provider and ask for them to be sent.

See my edit above. Yes, that was my reply to Mike Lister, who has stated that his Pension is a Government Pension, which is totally different to a State Pension.

Portugal is doing away with its Golden Visa and 10% tax rate as it is claimed that it is causing chaos with the price of Social / affordable housing. How anyone can think that £500,000 and above properties causes chaos with the price of Social / affordable housing is discussion that would be interesting from a fly on the wall perspective. It has an interesting line about UK Government Pension https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/retirement/retirees-are-living-the-high-life-in-low-tax-portugal/

I have never mentioned State Pensions ( Nor I am in reciept of a State Pension ) Some people would do well to understand that some people actually know the difference between a State Pension and a Government Pension. You can also throw in the difference in a Private Pension just for good measure. Happy ? Good, keep calm and carry on. Extra bit added I fully agree and accept that people who are remitting State Pensions / Private Pensions may well get caught up after the 01 January. We wont know this until further clarification comes from the RD. In the meantime, until such times as the muddy waters become clearer, it would be wise to take any steps people deem neccessary to limit their exposure after the 01 Jan, if they feel they potentially will get caught up in it.

What is the purpose of a DTA ? Is it not to ensure that the same funds are not taxed in 2 different Countries ? Perhaps you could explain why you are lost for words and why income that is not taxed elsewhere would be covered by a DTA ? Whilst you are scrambling about trying to come up with an answer. I'm still awaiting your explanation of how I have misunderstood the UK / Thai DTA, in that my Government pension( taxed in the UK ) is covered by said DTA and should be exempt from Thai Taxation.