The Cyclist

Or do the sensible thing, and await clarification from the RD as to * what constitutes assessable income * what requirements / actions / paperwork are required for income covered by a DTA's Or perhaps one of the regular attendees at the DTA headsheds monthly briefings, could provide an update on Now that would be really helpful.

What is the purpose of a DTA, and by extension, specific items covered in the DTA ? UK State Pension have been covered repeatedly, as has Government Pensions. Just for a laugh, lets play the doom and gloom game, even though the UK State Pension is not specifically covered by the DTA, who says Thailand is going to tax UK State Pensions ? Do you have written confirmation from the DTA headshed ? After all, if they can decide to tax rental income ( tax paid in the UK ) they can also decide not to tax UK State Pensions, if they so choose. Yet again I have to repeat myself. Best wait until the DTA confirms what exactly comes under assessable income, before getting knickers twisted and doing yourself damage.

If the thought exercise comes to fruition and Thaland adopts the UK system then @bugger bognor is absolutely correct and we have had a 100 and odd pages of crap. Which brings us on to the UK / Thai DTA Income from property situated in the UK. Article 7 ( 1 ) Income from immoveable property may be taxed in the contracting State where the property is located. Which means that if you are paying tax in the UK on a rental property it should not be taxable in thailand. Article 19 ( 2 ) (a ) Any Pension paid by the contracting State ( Blah Blah Blah ) shall only be taxable in that State. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a80bddc40f0b623026953eb/uk-thailand-dtc180281_-_in_force.pdf Article 19 Is referring to Government Pensions. I make no comment on whether a State Pension is classed as a Government Pension. But that in itself throws up another interesting conundrum for the people who are claiming the State Pension and being taxed on it in the UK due to other Occupational Pensions.

How difficult is this to understand . I am not deciding anything. An intergovernmental body has came up with the UK / Thai DTA, as part of that DTA and decided my Government Pension is only taxable in the UK. The Thai Government can cancel that DTA in writing to the UK Government, giving 6 months notice. As of today I have nothing that suggests that the Thai Government has done so. I did not even read the rest of your comment. If you cannot get the basics correct in your opening sentence, then there is not much scope for anything else in your comment being correct. As I said previously, you can either whinge and bitch over the unknown or you can be proactive, read and digest your home Countries DTA with Thailand and take the appropriate steps to avoid being whacked with a Thai tax bill.

Ditto The UK / Thai DTA.

I am stating that under the UK / Thai DTA my Government pension is not taxable in Thailand. I can provide annual P60's and Statements of Future Payments to the RD if they wish to inspect them. My Private Pension does not appear to be covered by the UK / Thai DTA ( Even though it is taxed in the UK ) This is why it will no longer come into Thailand after the 01 Jan 2024. Proactively removing a potential source of conflict with the RD. Could you tell me where I have misunderstood the UK / Thai RD ? The only confirmation that I require from the RD is whether I need to submit an annual ' Nil Return " or if I am exempt.

I do not think that there is many who are declaring ' This will not apply to me ' The issue at the moment is that we do not know ' what will apply to whom ' As has been pointed out repeatedly. DTA's will apply, and what is covered is covered is dependant on the Your Country / Thailand DTA. Thailand has 61 DTA's with other Countries. Which will encompass a barrowload of work for the RD when they have to go through those DTA's for every single expat covered by a DTA. So it would come as no surprise to hear a blanket statement being issued stating that X, Y and Z incomes ( probably pensions / social security etc ) are exempt for people from those Countries are exempt. As I said yesterday. It would be prudent to abide by your Country / Thailand DTA and limit your exposure before 01 Jan 2024 to potentially being skelped with Thai taxation. You do not require a further announcement from the RD to put this into practice. Common sense tells you to continue remitting to Thailand income / money covered by a DTA and stop remitting income / money to Thailand that is not covered by a DTA. Absolutely no point in typing a 3000 word dissertation above about what you are going to do if Thailand does X. Take proactive steps to reduce the risk of X.

The minority in the UK's black economy is estimated at over £200 Billion. What is the size of your Countrys black economy ? Compare and contrast with about £3 Billion in tax avoidance and a further £ 5 Billion in tax evasion. That minority is rather sizeable in monetary terms. I agree, Thailand needs to sort out its own internal tax problems, but lets not pretend that every other Country is squeeky clean.

Does no-one in your home Country work cash in hand ? Does your home Country not have a ' Black Economy ' ? I find it difficult to accept that any Country does not have some sort of combination of the above. The UK's ' Black Economy ' is estimated at over £200 Billion a year.

There is a massive difference between participating and posting hundreds of posts containing unfounded doom & gloom. It is not difficult to read your countries / Thai DTA and coming up with a very good idea of what you will / will not be taxed on when remitted to Thailand. You also have time, before the 01 Jan to take the appropriate steps to mitigate what you judge you might be taxed on after 01 Jan. A further announcement from the RD / relevant authority should only be clarification on what you have already deduced.

Yes, it is astounding that in 15 years I have never been subjected to any of the nonsense claimed by others regarding Immigration or the Thai Police. Which is why I poo-poo the doom & gloom merchants on this thread. Are things going to change come 01 Jan ? For some, yes. For others probably not. Until further details are promulgated, read, digested and understood. There is pages and pages of crap being posted. Post number 02 on the 1st page sums it up perfectly and the thread should have been temporarily closed until a further announcement is made.

Thanks for that. As Iam not in receipt of the State Pension I have no idea what the credit entry is, or would be. It is not I, who thinks that the UK State is a Government Pension, but clearly there are posters who believe this to be the case. Having said that, it will really come down to how the RD interprets ' State Pension ' and if they deem it as taxable in Thailand then I think some people are going to be really disappointed and up s**t creek without a paddle, if that is their only source of income.

This, for a variety of reasons. Some of those reasons have nothing to do with money or a lack thereof. Sure, they are the people who can identify that their homeland is crap or heading to the dogs. It's called experience, and if you do not have any experience, you will not know any different.

Indeed, thanks for posting. Hopefully further information will be forthcoming in the not too distant future, that will dispense with a lot of speculation and bring absolute clarity. No issues with filing a ' Nil Return ' or something similar should it be required.

I think the start date of 01 Jan 2024 is a dead giveaway. Otherwise I would be running around with my head on fire, panicking about all the income I remitted to Thailand between 2009 and 2020.

Might be something to do with this https://www.xero.com/uk/programme/making-tax-digital/self-assessment-changes-mtd/

Snail mail, via airmail, from my pension providers takes about 6 weeks to get here. Not received anything, but could it be something to do with Self Assessment ?

I tagged you in because it was something that we had previously discussed. There has been others on the thread that appear to think that UK State Pensions are a Government Pension. They may well be correct, when the RD makes the distinction. I would prefer to err on the side of caution ( If it concerned me ) and expect it to be taxed and perhaps get a bonus if / when it is not. Rather than think It is a Government Pension and get shafted with a tax bill I was not expecting.

@Mike Lister Something you ( and any other UK State Pension holders ) might want to consider, which came about during a conversation I had yesterday. Government Pensions will increase by 6.7% in April. The September CPI figure released on Wednesday. Just as it has done so, for the last 20 odd years I have had a Government Pension. The State Pension will increase by either 8.5% or 7.9% in April ( ignore that it is frozen for pensioners in Thailand ) due to the triple lock. Which suggests that the State Pension is not a Government Pension or it would be increasing by 6.7%. Info only and not a suggestion or inferrence on how the RD will classify the State Pension for tax purposes after 01 January. Just something to be aware of.

The link supplied will not apply to many expat retirees in Thailand. Very few to none will be earning money in Thailand whilst working in the Philipines. For retirees the main bone of contention will be Pensions. Government Pensions are non taxable in Thailand due to the UK / Thai DTA. Private pensions are another story. Which is why I have removed mine from the equation and stopped it being remitted to Thailand Any other retiree who has any of the rest of the list being remitted to Thailand, might want to reconsider, until the muddy waters become clearer. Of course, people who are on retirement extensions and still working are a different kettle of fish.

Did you understand that link you supplied ? It covers- Company employees, working in the Philipines, bringing the money back into Thailand, where they have other Thai income in the same tax year. The tax credit must not exceed the amount of tax paid. I don't think the above will apply to too many expats, especially retirees. The above is covered in the initial announced and the the very first post in the thread, under the 3 sources of income that will be covered as ' Assessable income ' coming into Thailand. * Income from employment How many retired expats remit income to Thailand that comes from employment ?

I know But July 2023 was more up to date than 2022 as per the OP 😀😀

17 working days in July.

You really need to stop speculating. How many expats do you think are living in Thailand that have no income or income that is below Baht 150,00" a year ? Non I would wager unless they are working in the Thai Black economy. Again, nothing but speculation. Can you provide evidence for this ? Or is this another ' Somebody said it might / could happen ' so is now considered the gospel truth and nothing but the truth ? Yes indeed. That would be why myself and others, continue to post that US SSC and Government Pensions are covered by DTA's and will not be subject to Thai taxes. That is why everyone should have a look at the DTA that is pertinent to them and see if their income is covered by said DTA. It really isn't rocket science.

Makes absolute sense and falls into a comment I made above saying that in the worse case, we might have to file a Nil Return or something similar. To my way of thinking, remittances that are covered by a DTA will not fall under the bracket of assessable income. Assesable income being remittances that are subjuect to Thai taxation.