Hawaiian

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

He meant "Palestinian" Arabs. I got that wrong at first so deleted my post.

Anyway, he's an EXTREMIST anti-Zionist River to the Sea type.

Israel will NEVER allow right of return for Arabs en masse.

That means the end of Israel. Of course that's what the Jew haters and Israel demonizers want. 

Do you think they're fooling anyone if they deny that? 

There's another reason for never allowing that. The numbers that left during the "Nakba" by force or freely are debatable. I think the range is about 400-700K.

Not to mention but I will a significant percentage of those Arabs were MIGRANTS from other Arab countries who moved to the Mandate for economic opportunity -- so in no way really "Palestinian" in the first place.

Now "Palestinian" Arabs are several millions and would overwhelm Israeli Jews.

Some genocide, huh? 

 

To add, of course some much more limited return and qualified compensation could possibly be part of a negotiated two state deal, but full Arab right of return -- impossible for Israel to do. 

If I get this right, he is saying the "Palestinian" Arabs are citizens of Israel by birthright?  Oh, isn't Israel a sovereign nation that makes the rules regarding Israeli citizenship.  Like you say, that will never happen.

Perhaps our Australian friend could convince his sovereign nation to invite the several million "refugees" to resettle in the country.  Lots of room there and I'm sure his countrymen would welcome them with open arms.  I understand there aren't many racists living there.  That would atone for the theft of aboriginal lands.

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

LIAR!

The Aliyah Process: Step by Step Overview - Nefesh B'Nefesh (nbn.org.il)

I actually know something about this.

My sister strongly considered it.

It's a big deal, a long process, and many move there and fail.

As I'm into researching expat options (I really wouldn't want to move to Israel), I researched this myself.

I'm one case. Two Jewish parents, two Jewish grandparents, etc. and I also found it would not have been anything close to instant.

Again, if you don't know what you're talking about -- STOP LYING. 

Partly why I asked "Jewish or Palestinian."  I am confused since he jumps all over the page.  Not sure if it is intentional or  another one of his Freudian slips.

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

Them Freudian slips....Thanks.

 

You clumsily tried to turn my argument against my, and failed. As usual.

 

I did not and do not 'ignore the plight' as you claimed - that's another lie from your lie factory.

I actually addressed the issue of their future.

 

 

47 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

They don't want to apply for citizenship. They have it by birthright.

The Jews or the Palestinians? 

25 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

The same argument could be applied to the centuries that Jews spent in Europe if one was so inclined. Many of the Jews who went to Israel from Europe and Russia after WW2 could surely not trace any ancestors back to the holy land, other than to point to their religion? All of them were citizens of their host countries. That's the essence of your argument, that they've been away so long it doesn't matter. Let alone the question of living in a refugee camp.

Every sovereign nation has the right to define their requirements for citizenship whether the rules are racist or not.  Why would anyone want to apply for citizenship to country where they are not welcome?

37 minutes ago, Zab1e said:

The only truth is “he who has the gold makes the rules” and controls the narratives. 
 

after 75 years of illegal occupation, blockades, oppression, apartheid and biased news from the mass media? 

Hamas attack does not mean attack on civilians. 

 

 

Are you implying that the IDF has infants, young children, disabled individuals and the elderly among its ranks?   Or is it you don't know the difference between a civilian or a member of the armed forces?

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

Counter-battery fire (sometimes called counter-fire) is a battlefield tactic employed to defeat the enemy's indirect fire elements (multiple rocket launchers, artillery and mortars), including their target acquisition, as well as their command and control components. Counter-battery arrangements and responsibilities vary between nations but involve target acquisition, planning and control, and counter-fire. Counter-battery fire rose to prominence in World War I.

 

 

 

Note: there was counter battery fire at Gettysburg in 1863.

Seems there is a lot of counter battery fire going on on this forum.

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

 

Now your conflation education with genetics. You'r etrying to duck out from yoiur "It's in their blood" claim with an irrelevant defection. The suggestion that any race is different in a way that affects their social behaviour is racist.

Didn't I say you call it anything you want. If you're looking to pick a bone, go find a dog.  A dingo will suffice.  You won't find them on

this forum, but guarantee you'll find some racists.

52 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Here we go with the racist garbage. It must be in their blood argument". A very reminiscent argument made in times past and used often by racists.

Racist?  If you say so.  I believe if you begin indoctrinating children with the ideology of hating a particular ethnic group, in this case people of Jewish descent, one generation after another it eventually becomes  ingrained into the culture. Are they then considered racist if they habitually practice this ideology?

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

You're the one making their strategy claims, I am not. 

You may be confusing me with another poster.  What I posted is not strategy, but just plain common sense.  I would think it would be logical if Hamas is being hounded and pounded in Gaza why send send some of their troops back into Israel.  For what?  What would that accomplish?  Can't make it any plainer than that.

Remember, you were the one who made the first wise ass remark.

1 hour ago, ezzra said:

Unfortunately, there aren't many of them as on the 7th of October, many of the looters, rapists and murderers were ordinary Palestinians folks who joined the terrorist in their deeds, and what future do you wanna build for you and your future if you don't stand up and be counted and let them here you objection, and if enough of them will do that, all those terrorists will be gone...

Must be in their blood.  Agree.  Almost impossible to change that mindset. You've convinced me, but it is the rest of the world that will never agree.  Every move that the Israelis make is scrutinized, looking to shift the blame from Hamas to Israel.  As the old saying goes, "You gotta do what you gotta do."  And it sure looks like Israel is going to do it.

22 minutes ago, ezzra said:

When you aid and abide, harbour, allowing your your schools, mosques, hospitals and homes to become a potential Hamas hiding places and battlefield, working for the Hamas digging tunnels to be used in guerrilla war, when you rejoice and dance in the streets seeing dead, butchered and kidnapped Israelis, you're no better than the terrorists, you become the enemy and thus a fair target, and maybe if enough of the Palestinians babies will die the penny finally will drip...

There are others that feel the same way, but are afraid to express their sentiments because it's politically incorrect and they will be targets of ridicule. 

Basically I agree with you, except my sympathy goes to those Palestinians who wanted nothing to do with Hamas but were forced to cooperate.

In WWII, the Japanese population thought it be disloyal to the emperor were they to even think of surrendering to the Allies. The destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki changed many minds. Of course, the rest is history.  

What happens next in the Israeli/Hamas conflict will also become part of history.  Right now what will be written will be anyone's guess.

31 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I personally bear no resentment but I'm saying that many people in Australia, at least, held significant resentment to Japanese and Germans and, as I previously said, comic books demonizing Germans and Japanese were common until the mid 60's at least. People like Bruce Ruxton, the head of the then powerful RSL was especially vehement. Most of those people have all died off by now.

There are some on both sides that will never get over it.  My brother's father-in-law belonged to the Nazi party.  I have no idea how active he was.  However, this never seemed to be an issue with my brother and his German family. 

Perhaps my growing up in Hawaii with a large Japanese population made me more aware of Japanese culture and appreciative of Japanese cuisine.  While there, I ate everything put in front of me.

I recall one old Japanese lady regularly sneaking me in to the back of her restaurant and personally serving me.  Her establishment did not have a grade A sign.  This was a system imposed by the U.S. military, which I mostly ignored.  I miss those days.

As far as the Aussies go, I understand the resentment.  Not very many people are aware of the Japanese bombing of Darwin and other Australian towns.  Also the treatment of POW's by the Japanese Imperial Army was most barbaric. 

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

 

I did, I said and I meant that the general populations of German and Japanese enemies during ww2 took 50 years to get over. Years that I was mostly alive and can recall personally.

So can I.  My first time in Japan was 1958 in the U.S. Navy.  Never recalled outright animosity for Americans. I returned in 1965 as a civilian and lived there for several months.  Returned again in 1972. At that time the Japanese were upset with Nixon for his removal of the gold standard.  The "Nixon Shock" was responsible for a decline in the yen from 360 to around 270 to the dollar.  Other than that my experience was mostly positive as I traveled from Hokkaido to Kyushu.

My brother served most of his army time in Germany.  This was in the mid 50's.  He married a German girl and went to work for an American electronics giant in Frankfort as a salesman to German businesses.  Other than visits back home along with his family he lived there till his death.  My friendship with my sister-in-law and my two nieces was excellent.  After my brother's death we continued to stay in touch.  I never visited Germany so my personal experiences are limited.

As far as Italy goes, no personal experiences.  In all my years of travel I have made many friends and never had any hassles with anyone.  Don't know about you.  Negative attitudes usually bring negative results.

13 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I'm talking about the general population's attitude to these former enemies. I believe you were as well.

 

Say what you mean and mean what you say. 

25 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

It took at least 50 years for them to get over it.

Fifty years?  Really?  In 1951, the U.S. and Japan signed a Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security which was amended 9 years later.

Italy was one of the founding members of NATO in 1949.  West Germany joined in 1955 right after the allied occupation ended.

So much for your hundred year comment.

Perhaps you and your friend from New Zealand should take remedial classes in world history.  You two may learn something.

8 hours ago, stevenl said:

Good someone understands Hamas' strategy. Did you offer your advice to Israeli military leadership?

No, I am not qualified, but evidently you think you are.

8 hours ago, stevenl said:

Maybe first read the post before responding?

Could be he feels he is being left out of the discussion and rushes in without thinking.  And I thought it was the IDF you and I were discussing.

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You don't reply to the point I made that if israel can be defeated by a few fighters with rifles and rpgs, it's not going to survive anyway.

Killing thousands of Palestinians to kill a few Hamas isn't going down well with much of the world, for obvious reasons.

It was the Palestinian's homeland before Euro people half the world away took it and gave it to someone else. You wouldn't be happy if someone came and threw you out of your house to give it to someone else, or would you go willingly?

 

The other point I made was that the hatred being built up now isn't going to go away and israelis will be living in fear for a very long time, maybe hundreds of years. Is that what they really want?

You mean just like how the former western enemies of the Germans, Italians and Japanese fear them today?

On 12/14/2023 at 1:38 PM, bradiston said:

What you quote is almost exactly what I pay per month here in Thailand for in patient cover. But I'm 73 with a heart condition. Maybe people should look at getting properly covered at home, by a policy which includes at least some travel.  Might work out about the same, or even cheaper.

I never bought travel insurance before Covid.  I do now.  At 84 years old I am more vulnerable.  I buy Allianz through Priceline and pay about $190 USD total for both me and my girl.  Thirty day policy with good Covid coverage.  Both of have tested positive, but asymptomatic.  Never got seriously sick in Thailand before. Still you never know.  That is what insurance is for.

52 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Agree they have to stay on their toes.

But the IDF is not the most reliable of sources. And the report is from October, way from before the present issues from the Houti attacks arose.

This distraction could be an excellent opportunity for Hamas to try again though.

52 minutes ago, stevenl said:

 

 

Doesn't make sense for Hamas to attack now.  The October incident was part of the Oct. 7 invasion. Right now Hamas is too busy fending off the IDF. And since there have been no more incidents  reported it indicates Israeli vigilance is paying off. The Israelis have 6 state of the art Saar 6 warships and 5 modern subs with a more advanced one on the way.  I would say quite sufficient for now.

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Exactly.

All this global noise because there are Jews involved.

That actually proves the validity of the origin of the ideology of political Zionism.

Israel isn't going anywhere.

The sooner the haters fully accept that the sooner there is any hope for a better future for so called Palestinians.

 

They will not openly admit it, but the Saudis know this and are not about to waste any time and money messing with Israel.  Both Egypt and Jordan have realized this for awhile because they have had to deal with Hamas in the past and don't want anything to do with them and the trouble they caused.

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. Defend against whom, exactly? Are they not mainly engaged in stopping Gazans fishing and such like important stuff? Oh and blowing up Palestinian houses with Palestinian children in them, of course. It's good to see a navy being gainfully employed..

You don't have to be a graduate of the U.S. Naval War College to know it pays to be prepared for anything.  Perhaps your training to be prepared for the next war was to get ready for the next Maori uprising.  Seems the protests are gaining steam.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/israeli-naval-forces-thwart-hamas-attempted-invasion-by-sea-idf-video-shows

Looks like more than innocent fishermen were involved here.

11 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Those trained soldiers must have been shaking at the knees as they saw 3 unarmed and shirtless hostages waving a white flag.

I see the Ozzie has joined forces with the Kiwi, has who run out of steam, to take on the Hawaiian.  Yep, the Kiwi has boxed himself into a corner.

Can you furnish a video?

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Tis you with the double talk. I thought you were better than that.

 

When the allies went into Japan you are right, they didn't massacre the population, UNLIKE what is happening in Gaza where they are massacring the civilian population, including over 7,000 children. Had the allies gone into Japan and blown up thousands of children, would the Japanese be of the same mind now?

 

I'm done with you for that post. Carry on without me from now on.

They didn't have to.  Unlike Hamas, Japan surrendered.  It's in your world history book.

12 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Watching Sky News and it is appalling that IDF can kill 3 unarmed people in civilian clothes. They are obviously firing at anyone they see, with no reason.

The chances of this being in crossfire are impossible.

This is what ethnic cleansing is. Even Sleepy Joe Biden says the Israelis are bombing indiscrimently, which is incredible itself. He must know for sure there are war cries before publicly stating the country they are sponsoring are doing this.

The death toll continues...Israel will be paying for this for many decades in the future...

You talk like you are a seasoned combat veteran who has experienced the horrors of war.  Training and actually being involved in combat is not the same thing.  While training may prepare you not to let fear and apprehension take over it happens, even to the bravest.

Just saw Thaibeachlover's post about the deliberate shooting of hostages. This applies to him, too.