Hawaiian

22 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

1. AJ+ is mostly OK for me as news outlet.

 

2. Fine for me if you don't know the answer to my question as expected.

 

Thanks, anyway.

Your answer has convinced me that this forum has become a circus with deflections, fabrications, accusations, innuendos, misinformation, name calling and other forms of juvenile behavior.

In other words, so much BS it has become a chore to read.  I know I won't be missed.  Who cares?  I don't.

7 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

I asked : did Israeli army also commit "horrific acts" since 7th of October 2023?

 

No need to hide behind Hamas.

7 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

I asked : did Israeli army also commit "horrific acts" since 7th of October 2023?

 

No need to hide behind Hamas.

I don't know.  You tell me.  And please, no links from Al-jazeera.

2 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Agreed with most of your comments, but did Israeli army also commit "horrific acts" since 7th of October 2023?

If you consider casualties caused by Hamas's use of hospitals and peoples homes to store arms and munitions and their use of human shields as "horrific acts", then the obvious answer would be yes.

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

What are you on about? Gantz 'chosen'? Gantz is the head of a current opposition party, which agreed to conditionally join the cabinet for the duration of the emergency. It was not Netanyahu's 'choice' per se. As for his past appointment for IDF chief of staff - he was a distant third choice, picked after Netanyahu's candidate (and current Defense Minister, Gallant, was dropped because of a legal case). I'm not saying he's clueless or anything, but he's not quite the brilliant strategist or tactician either - his role in this is to be the 'adult-in-the-room', and to generate a semblance of stability and level headed take on things - which Netanyahu often fails to broadcast or apply. How much influence he actually have on current events is a good question. Since this would be the second time he politically 'saves' Netanyahu, and seeing how the first time fared, best be cautious about how things will pan.

No need for further explanation.  Just say they are inmates running the asylum and leave it at that.

16 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

More lame deflections and fabrications #2 :

 

Your post : The notion that Hamas is only responsible for the direct actions of it's own men is nonsense as well. As the de-facto governing body in the Gaza Strip, it's on Hamas anyway. Your claim that the ones who killed Thai workers were not Hamas is something you claim - not fact.

 

"You seem to know the exact workings of the Hamas plans, and in detail....interesting."

 

Quote from my source :

 

"Al-Qassam and Saraya Al-Quds conclude the handover of the 5th batch of hostages."

 

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231129-al-qassam-and-saraya-al-quds-conclude-the-handover-of-the-5th-batch-of-hostages/

 

Conclusion : Israeli and Asian hostages held by Al-Qassam (Hamas military wing) and Saraya Al-Quds (non Hamas military wing) were released recently. This is another proof that most or all Asian hostages were held captive as hostages by Al-Qassam and/or Saraya Al-Quds. 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izz_ad-Din_al-Qassam_Brigades

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Quds_Brigades

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Islamic_Jihad

 

Other Gaza brigades like Islamic Jihad might also have Israeli and/or Asian hostages, but they don't work together under official elected Hamas.

 

1. Who attacked the factory or place with all these Asian workers is logically the military wing that took them as hostages. Not all Gaza brigades attacked the same places.

 

2. Hamas and all other Gaza brigades do not always work together.

3. Many non-military Gazans participated in the looting and extra judicial crimes without any control or supervision

 

 

Who cares whether they all work together or not.  They are all savage criminals who need to be eliminated.  No need to elaborate who did this and who did that.  They are all guilty of horrific acts.

22 hours ago, Morch said:

 

What 'people'? On his current cabinet, there's a mediocre ex-general as Defense Minister, and a couple of former IDF chiefs turned politicians belonging to an opposition party who joined government as an emergency measure. Again, given past instances, you can count on Netanyahu picking whatever action he feels would be most beneficial for his personal political interests. The other version regarding his decision making capabilities was referenced by a long term political ally - to the effect that Netanyahu's decisions are governed by the last person he speaks to. All the confident baritone voice bravado is a facade. About half of the Israelis would probably say bottom line it's his wife and eldest son who call the shots. 

I tend to disagree with your assessment of Netanyahu's  ability to manage the present conflict.  Benny Ganz, who is a member of the war cabinet has a very impressive military career.  Was he chosen by Netanyahu for political reasons? Maybe.  Even if that were true, Ganz's considerable military experience, both as a non-com and high ranking officer could be a valuable asset in making strategic decisions.  Remember, many times military goals align with political goals.  Personally, I hope you are wrong.

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The Mrs. was more into a rage fit. Suggested she take a hoe and work it out in the garden. There was almost an incident.

Living with me for many years my girl has learned not to stress out over things she has no control over.  I guess that is why we discuss things, but never argue.

4 hours ago, Pouatchee said:

I think that when passengers have a fit that the reason for crazed behavior should be studied and catalogued. I have mild claustrophobia and have taken planes quite a few times without any issues. Who's to say that one day something like this won't happen to me or anyone of us?

 

Alcohol or drugs aside, there might be an underlying issue that could be treatable or diagnosed. Its easy to point a finger and blame people but sometimes there are real issues at cause but no one knows them cos no studies have been undertaken, yet

If anyone has any inkling they are a candidate for this kind of behavior they have no business potentially putting others in jeopardy.

7 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Do we have to use this tool here on AN or are we free to judge the bias or not ourselves ?

 

You are free to choose just as I am free to choose. 

50 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Is this your other go to media source apart from Al Jezeera? New Arab also Qatar owned

The news site if you want to be misinformed.  Al-jazeera.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/al-jazeera

1 hour ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Now you have the benefit of religion I thankfully do not, so my soul and the devil don't compute.

Whatever the Hamas leader has said is your normal deflection away from the post you questioned originally but as you brought it up I'll give you my take on it.

Hamas will lose this war as they are fighting a far better armed and supported military who don't care how many innocent Palestinians they kill on the way, putting that to one side, what next?

My guess is Israel will go back to normal running Gaza as an open-air prison with all the same restrictions on Palestinians as before, but this time International support for Gaza will be huge as the one thing that is getting out to the world is the fact that Israel is a Apartheid state with the morals of an alleycat. 

Although the expression of selling one's soul to the devil began as a religious saying, it also now has a secular meaning of gaining wealth, success, power, etc. by doing something bad or dishonest.

There are also arguments that Israel is not an apartheid state.

https://www.huffpost.com/archive/ca/entry/10-reasons-israel-is-not-an-apartheid-state_b_9128056

20 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Why a peace deal with Hamas will never work, this from their top leader in Gaza yesterday, he also recently visited the hostages.

 

Oct. 7 massacre 'was just a rehearsal,' says Hamas leader in first public address since Israel attack

Hamas’s Oct. 7 slaughter was “just a rehearsal,” the Islamist group’s leader in Gaza Yahya Sinwar threatened on Thursday, in his first public statement since the terrorist organization massacred more than a thousand people in Israel.

“The leaders of the occupation [Israel] should know, Oct. 7 was just a rehearsal,” stated Sinwar, according to the Maariv newspaper.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/oct-7-massacre-was-just-a-rehearsal-says-hamas-leader-in-first-public-address-since-attack-on-israel

 

 

 

 

I would say this is an open challenge AND an invitation from Hamas for Israel to resume hostilities.   Knowing the Israelis they will accept this invitation. 

9 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Exactly, all that lovely gas, out in the Med, just off-shore.

As of 2017, the Gaza Marine field licenses were owned by PIF with 17.5% of the field development rights, Consolidated Contractors Company owns 27.5% of these rights and Shell 55%. The development and gas extraction rights belonged to the Palestinians alone. In the year 2018, Shell company, which had taken over British Gas earlier, decided to relinquish its 60% stake in Gaza Marine, transferring it to Palestinian state companies.

A think tank's perspective:

https://besacenter.org/why-israel-approved-development-of-the-gaza-marine-gas-field/

18 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

And then what? Sacrifice all the rest?

 

I did not say that or imply it. I stated what the players involved have been expressing. Hamas has also publicly told its fighters to gear up for the continued offensive in preparation. Once most of the civilian hostages are released and only military or security left along with men of fighting age the stakes for a resumption of the war rise significantly, that is a fact. How that transpires is yet to be seen.

 

My personal opinion is on side with IDF and Israel, wipe out Hamas. My other opinions would be a complete overhaul of the Palestine education system along with real opportunity given to them. How's that all achieved? I am not a general, a politician or key player. I can only leave that to the experts that do profess to hold those qualifications. If you different thoughts then feel free to express them without the need to ask me what I would do. 

Someone has gotten up on the wrong side of the bed and has become very argumentative.  It ain't you and it ain't me.

35 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

So what do you suggest as an "End Game" more of what's gone on since 2006/7?

Israel should get back to business.  If Hamas is not destroyed or crippled they will be a threat again in the future;  just like cancer cells need to be killed before they regrow.

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

And I'll repeat - you assume that there is a coherent plan. That there's an agreed upon, clear and reasonable end game goal.

There is nothing to suggest this is the case - while ongoing statements and past instances support the notion that it's a mess.

I suppose your intelligence source has revealed what Benjamin Netanyahu and Benny Ganz are up to.  You seem so stuck on bashing Netanyahu.  Your prerogative.

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

You are assuming that Netanyhu got a coherent, realistic plan to fall back on. Nothing in his career recommends this is the case. Most of the time he just wings it. One of the things Israel failed to do under Netanyahu's rule was to formulate a workable plan or vision as to its relations with the Palestinians. In lieu of an overall strategy, what's on offer are ad-hoc concessions to coalition partners, off the cuff reactions to emerging situations, and pushing things forward (aka managing the conflict) without seriously discussing goals and means to get there. The current situation is not all that different in this regard.

 

What makes you think Netanyahu is 'the right person'? He's notoriously indecisive, over-invested in his own political survival, and lack any semblance of credibility.

Netanyahu has some very capable, battle tested people advising him.  Whether he takes their advice we may never know.  The destruction of Hamas is very much what he intends to accomplish.  If he succeeds he will viewed as a hero among most Israelis.  If it brings him glory and political success, so be it.  One of the greatest concerns many have is how much is this going to cost in lives lost on both sides.  World opinion is another concern.  The old saying "War is hell,"  surely applies. 

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

 

The issue, now, seems to be one of making a choice - either bringing back the hostages, or trying to 'destroy' Hamas. I don't see how both could be managed under current circumstances. Either option got it's share of problems and potential setbacks, and any choice made would imply some serious negatives as well. This is where spokesmen commentary is neither here nor there - they are not the decision makers, and especially when Netanyahu and/or Hamas leadership are concerned, underlings are not always in the loop at this phase.

This is what I mentioned in a previous post.  You don't publicize your strategy.  Keep the enemy guessing.

55 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I think it depends - the more information is revealed about the Hamas attack, the more chances support for Israel's actions would grow. But on the other hand, the same goes for more details on Palestinian casualties in the Gaza Strip, and the destruction meted. So maybe balances out, sort of. I do think that the more ardent Palestinian supporters on the progressive 'wing' of the Democrat party are less popular (in general, not their constituencies) with their colleagues and general democratic voter base. Again, more of an impression than a researched view. Since it's hard to see any of, say the 'squad' members losing seats, maybe not a major issue/point anyway.

 

One point I disagree on is about 'squad' members.  Rashida Tlaib faces a serious opponent in the Democratic primary.  It's Shanelle Jackson, a Black woman who is pro-business and pro-Israel.  She has an interesting private sector and political background.  A very articulate person who seems quite capable to tackle the radical, left-wing congresswoman.

Another one on shaky grounds is Ayanna Pressley.  She is married to a supposedly reformed ex-con who served 10 years for drug trafficking. 

I think the more sordid details are exposed about the savagery of Hamas the more people will tend to dismiss the climbing Palestinian casualties.   Some will rationalize that these people are getting what they deserve for putting Hamas in charge.  Only time will tell which sentiment wins.

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2023-11-29/bloomberg-evening-briefing-saudi-arabia-tries-its-hand-at-reining-in-iran

Thanks.  When I tested the link it went to a 404 message.  This one does.  Again, thank you.

 Two and a half years ago Iran-aligned Houthis attacked Saudi oil facilities with missiles and drones.  Just the other day the Saudis reported Houthi missile attacks on various energy and desalination facilities.  I would think that Saudis would be more upset with Iran than with the Israelis.

Iran is intent on becoming a nuclear power. It would give them the clout to boss around the Arab states in the Middle East.  A few years back the word was that if Israeli jets flew over Saudi airspace to knockout Iran's nuclear program they would look the other way.

That won't work anymore since Iran has moved everything to the bomb-hardened Natanz nuclear enrichment site.  Now what?

One alternative is to establish a better relationship with Israel. This may include coming under Israel's nuclear umbrella.

Sooner or later the Israelis, with or without U.S. involvement, will  find a way to sabotage Iran's plans on becoming a nuclear power.

Even Russia and China don't want to see Iran succeed.

3 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

I failed to mentioned the importance of American support is for a successful and sustained campaign.  The sentiment of the U.S. Congress seems to favor to continue backing Netanyahu, especially after the condemnation of a few Hamas supporting representatives, like Rashida Tlaib.

Just saw this from my Bloomberg Evening Briefing. "Saudi Arabia Tries It Hand at Reining In Iran."   The article discusses the Saudi's attempt at diffusing the situation.  The Saudi's have offered Iran economic incentives if they stop aiding Hamas and Hezbollah.  They are also asking the U.S. to get involved. 

I tried furnishing a link, but the link doesn't work.