Hawaiian

59 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

plus the experience of the Israeli pilot

 

I'm puzzled as to how the israeli pilot has more experience than a Chinese pilot? Am I mistaken in thinking that it's been long enough ago since the israeli air force was in combat that all those pilots will have retired from flying long ago?

The israelis were not involved in either of the Gulf wars, and the last war in which aircraft were involved in combat was in 1967. Am I wrong?

I misspoke.  They may lack the combat experience, but appear to be better trained.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/china-might-have-stealth-fighters-how-good-are-pilots-who-fly-them-59147?utm 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Air_Force_Flight_Academy?utm

20 hours ago, placnx said:

The way things are now, the Taiwan operation would be over before the international community has time to have a meeting. SE Asia is not about to have a war with China.

 

I agree that the BRI (Belt & Road Initiative) is faltering, but the bad economic situation in China might incentivize Xi to create a distracting "win", the take over of Taiwan, similar to Putin's takeover of Crimea in 2014. There are elections in Taiwan next month, but Xi might wait until after the US election to see whether Trump wins. Taiwan is woefully ill prepared for a CHinese attack, and it will take the US many years to upgrade its navy and increase production capacity of advanced weapons.

Quality vs. quantity.  The other day an Israeli F-35 fighter jet shot down a Houthi cruise missile.  The plane's highly advanced tracking system plus the experience of the Israeli pilot made this possible.  It is highly unlikely the Chinese could accomplish a similar feat. 

While Taiwan may be "woefully ill prepared for a CHinese attack," the U.S. is not. 

Former secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld, said, "You go to war with the army you have, and not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time."  I believe the same thing applies to the U.S. Navy and Air Force.  There is nothing equivalent to combat experience.

24 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

A few more ships hit until things will be addressed, unless there's some major disaster involved.

Also, it's almost Christmas and New Year's Eve - many diplomatic efforts will be put on halt until beginning/mid January.

If I am not mistaken, this is the third ship that has been hit.  The other two suffered "little or no significant damage."  

Although it is a matter of when I am curious as to who will fire the first shot.

On 12/9/2023 at 6:03 PM, Morch said:

 

As long as the drones/missiles coming from Yemen are intercepted, I doubt something major will happen. If they manage to hit something, especially if it caused loss of life - different ball game. Fair enough, I think, for now. If this comes about, it would probably be dealt with in a similar manner - missile and drone strikes (either from Israel, or Israeli navy assets in the area).

 

When it comes to maritime traffic it's different. I think if they continue to attack ships based on owners' ties to Israel, and with ships flying other flags, they will eventually earn themselves a beating. Not necessarily from Israel, even. Going after ships this way is not something the international community and global business approve of or tolerate.

It just been reported that a Norwegian flagged ship carrying chemicals is afire in the Red Sea.  Houthi fired missile(s) blamed.

U.S. Navy ship on the scene.

What now?  Using your words, will the international community tolerate this?

16 hours ago, placnx said:

The way things are now, the Taiwan operation would be over before the international community has time to have a meeting. SE Asia is not about to have a war with China.

 

I agree that the BRI (Belt & Road Initiative) is faltering, but the bad economic situation in China might incentivize Xi to create a distracting "win", the take over of Taiwan, similar to Putin's takeover of Crimea in 2014. There are elections in Taiwan next month, but Xi might wait until after the US election to see whether Trump wins. Taiwan is woefully ill prepared for a CHinese attack, and it will take the US many years to upgrade its navy and increase production capacity of advanced weapons.

Underestimating an enemy often results in a long, costly war that can end in a stalemate rather than a speedy decisive win.  Putin seems to have made that miscalculation.  Many military analysts were surprised at the resistance put up by Ukraine and all of the economic and military support by western nations.  Then there are the economic sanctions that are slowly having a devastating effect.

Although Xi is just as ruthless and daring as his Russian counterpart, he is a lot more cautious.  Obviously, he is looking at all of the possible scenarios should China invade Taiwan.

Just because the Chinese have a much more superior military force does not ensure a quick, decisive victory.  There are many formidable challenges when conducting an amphibious operation.

Seven hundred something years ago the Mongols set out to conquer and subdue the Japanese.  Twice they failed, defeated by the weather.  D-Day, in 1944, could have also been a disaster for the Allies.  Fortunately for them, the weather cooperated.

Discounting who would come to Taiwan's aid is debatable.  If China were to make preemptive strikes on U.S. bases in Japan, the Philippines and elsewhere it is a given that the U.S. would immediately respond.  The Australians have also indicated they would get involved.  As to who else would join in depends how on long the hostilities last.  If China does badly, then maybe others will join in the fray. 

Let's hope that Xi realizes no matter what, China will pay a heavy price.

12 minutes ago, proton said:

He might not be either when the court appearances have ended, Biden is headed for the door

Wouldn't surprise me.  My worry is who will sit in the oval office if it's not Joe.  America is going down hill fast and we need a brakeman real soon. Joe is already having a difficult time determining which pedal is which. Scary.

2 hours ago, proton said:

Al Capone got prison for tax evasion, if there's any justice so will Hunter

But Al Capone wasn't a president's son.

1 hour ago, Tug said:

Yes I know this whole exercise of trying to jail HUNTER BIDEN is at the behest of DONALD JHON TRUMP to distract from the fact that he tryed to steal the presidency in 2020 and all his grifts and frauds over the years as you well know it is what it is a distraction 

Are you implying the FBI whistleblowers are Trump supporters?

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I was going to look up where israeli fuel comes from, so you saved me the trouble.

Turkey has no reason to be nice to israel, and perhaps they will cut the oil flow if nothing else works. I know the US would make it up, but that would take time.

While Israel does not belong to NATO it has fostered a close bond with many members.  Erdogan's economy is not well.  With the election coming up soon he might interrupt the flow of oil as a distraction.  But it may backfire if Israel's NATO friends institute a boycott on Turkish goods.  No way, you may say.  Crazier things have happened in today's crazy world.

59 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There is a difference between Muslims fighting other Muslims and allying with israel to fight other Muslims. The Saudi royals will IMO never risk something that the religious leaders would regard as an obscenity. I worked in Saudi with and for Saudis  ( not in a western compound without any Saudis ) for years, so I have some knowledge of the situation there.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that because the royals were going to normalise relations with israel that the ordinary Saudi agrees with it. I gather that the ordinary Saudis are as outraged by israel's behaviour in Gaza as any other Muslim country in the world.

 

I doubt they trust any country except Saudi ( themselves ) and are guided in international dealings by self interest, IMO.

IMO, MBS is all about business and while public sentiment may concern him, he is not going to let it get in his way.  I think he considers Israel as necessary evil that serves a purpose and will not cut all ties with the country. 

The Iranians that I have done business with are as sneaky as can be.  They lie with a straight face and have no compunction when caught in their lies.  The present Iranian regime hasn't displayed much trustworthiness either.  Thus my past comments.

Iranians are Persians and not Arabs.  They are also Shiites, whereas the Saudis are Sunni.  The rivalry between the two sects may not be in the spotlight, but it's there and does cause friction.  Saying Muslim is Muslim is almost like saying that Christianity is Christianity.  It is only in recent times that the Catholics and Protestants get along.  You may not agree with my analogy, but I think it's valid.

39 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

Other than yourself bringing this up, was there any mention of an invasion of Yemen by Israel? Or is it more a case of you dreaming something up and then treating it as a serious proposition?

 

 

Having 'the best toys' is no guarantee for proficiency or success. It takes decades of practice, combat experience and a organization mentality to build a top of the line air force. That's why there aren't many of them. Saudi Arabia's is nowhere near the list.

 

To make this clearer - you yourself could be supplied with the best machine out there, best accessories, and the fastest internet connection ever: and It would still have zero effect on the quality of your posts.

 

As far as I understand there is no intention to do more than retaliate, if things come to that. Your fantasies are irrelevant.

 

 

 

Was it suggested they will?

Although "Top Gun" and it's sequel were made for entertainment, there are some lessons to be learned.  Piloting a state of the art fighter jet takes more than just realistic combat exercises to be a winner.  Motivation and determination makes a big difference in whether there is mediocre performance or being a "top gun."

A military can be armed to the teeth with the latest military hardware, but if they have a lousy battle plan with poor leadership, then forget about victory.

31 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I very much doubt Saudi will become allies with israel in attacking Muslim people.

The present conflict started in 2015 and is still going on, albeit at on a limited scale.  While not widely known, the Saudis do have a small contingent of special operation forces in Yemen.  They have been operating with Bahraini soldiers.

Although Saudi Arabia does not have official diplomatic relations with Israel, El Al planes are still allowed to transverse Saudi air space.  To be safe El Al flight have been skirting the country and flying as far south as Somalia to avoid any "mishaps." The Saudis are no dummies.  I would say they trust Israel more than they do Iran.

As far as Muslims fighting Muslims, it's mostly Sunnis fighting Shiites and they don't need Israeli permission to do so.

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Haven't the Saudis been"pounding them" for years, and they have all the best US toys, but haven't succeeded in "pacifying" them.

Air power is never enough and needs boots on the ground, but how to get there without American ships, hmmmmmmm.

The Saudi's are modernizing their Navy, having contracted both Spanish and U.S. shipbuilders.  The multi-purpose littoral combat ships being built are supposedly to counter Iranian aggression in the gulf.  These ships are designed for near shore operations and will have missile firing capability.  They also could be used against the Houthis in Yemen.

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

A dead relative? Really? You mean like a second cousin? Classifying a brother as just a "dead relative" is a very cheap shot. 

A cheap shot?  Really?  You injected "just" just to prove a point.  Who's being insensitive now?  Typical of your antics, blowing things all out of proportion.  Making mountains out of molehills comes to mind.

11 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

What is so desperate about wanting to see justice served?  I am a lifelong independent and far from being a "retrumplikan."  As pointed out in the indictment, Hunter bragged about his opulent lifestyle while intentionally evading $1.4 million in income taxes.  You are the desperate one, using what aboutism to defend this shameful crime.  Shame on you.

The Democrats control the DOJ.  Why haven't they gone after blondy?  When you make accusations, name real names or is it because you are confused about who's who?

I have read of Hunter's excuse of turning to drugs because he could not handle the grief over his brother's, Beau, death.  Using a dead relative as an excuse for drug addiction is another sorry and shameful excuse.  Go ahead.  Keep defending him.

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Are you aware the Biden has 4 children? Well, three. One died possibly because of exposure to toxic chemicals during his service in Iraq.

Seems in this case the old saying, "There's one in every family," applies.  Black sheep, that is.

35 minutes ago, Tug said:

Pure desperation on the the part of the retrumplikans id love to see a full blown investigation of blondy and her hubby in their sweetheart 2 billion grift of the Saudis (love to know what they got in return humm?)or perhaps blondies involvement in daddy’s scam charity?

What is so desperate about wanting to see justice served?  I am a lifelong independent and far from being a "retrumplikan."  As pointed out in the indictment, Hunter bragged about his opulent lifestyle while intentionally evading $1.4 million in income taxes.  You are the desperate one, using what aboutism to defend this shameful crime.  Shame on you.

The Democrats control the DOJ.  Why haven't they gone after blondy?  When you make accusations, name real names or is it because you are confused about who's who?

To all of you commenting on my "history of Yemen" post,

I did state that Yemen has a complicated history.  For you nitpickers concerned about my use of "protectorate" and "crown colony" the following link should clear up the confusion.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/a-short-history-of-the-aden-emergency

Take note of the chronology: 1839, 1869, 1937 and 1967.

There are other links out there that are confusing and contradict each other similar to some of the information provided on this forum.

35 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Yemenites were never conquered and defeated in human history. Same same as the Taliban...

 

An Israeli official Amir Wetmann (Russia Will Pay a High Price for Killing Israelis’ )also made a claim to handle Russia for what(ever) they did...this was not reported here on AN.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX30OQobMXk

 

Looks like Netanyahu is forcing his near future political departure party by inviting his friends from Palestine, Lebanon (Hezbollah), Syria, Yemen, Russia and why not Iran... 

As a long time stamp collector I remember stamps of the Protectorate of Aden, a crown colony of Great Britain.  I recall stamps with King George VI and Queen Elizabeth on them.  Some time in the 1960's, Aden gained independence and changed its name to Yemen.  For some reason I never collected stamps from Yemen.

Out of curiosity I did a search on the history of Yemen.  Like much of the Middle East it has a very ancient and complicated history.

According to Wikipedia, the country has changed hands a few times by different warring factions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Yemen

30 minutes ago, Morch said:

🔴 Live: French warship downs drones headed from Yemen over Red Sea

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/live-french-warship-downs-drones-headed-from-yemen-over-red-sea/ar-AA1lgEW5

 

Given that there's quite an international naval presence in the area, just a question of time before other countries will be involved (willingly or not).

I was going post the same link.  You beat me to it. 

Good to see participation by the French.  Like you say, there will be more countries involved.

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

As long as the drones/missiles coming from Yemen are intercepted, I doubt something major will happen. If they manage to hit something, especially if it caused loss of life - different ball game. Fair enough, I think, for now. If this comes about, it would probably be dealt with in a similar manner - missile and drone strikes (either from Israel, or Israeli navy assets in the area).

 

When it comes to maritime traffic it's different. I think if they continue to attack ships based on owners' ties to Israel, and with ships flying other flags, they will eventually earn themselves a beating. Not necessarily from Israel, even. Going after ships this way is not something the international community and global business approve of or tolerate.

Well said.

47 minutes ago, metisdead said:

A post with an invalid URL link contravening our Community Standards has been removed. 

I believe that was my post documenting my claim of human shields, etc.  The link worked when tested, but failed to work when posted.

Interesting development.

Netanyahu has just announced Israel will take on the Houthis in Yemen if the U.S. doesn't.  Anyone care to comment?

On 12/5/2023 at 7:35 PM, rwill said:

Since they are saying it is the hotels system that is compromised I'm not sure this would help.

Best thing to do is never use links sent to you.   Also don't give info to people calling you.   Specially those claiming something will happen if you don't give them your info.

Excellent advice.  I am always suspicious when I receive any type of solicitation.  AOL has been quite effective in sending these types of emails to my spam file.  Then I make a quick check before deleting anything.