old wanderer

How is this not legalized theft?

The courts have weighed and measured Thaskin and his family and found them Guilty. For months evidence was put before this panel both by the procecuter and Thaskin's and his family attorneys. They weighed the evidence against the LAW. If it was corrupt, then they would have either returned all the money or kept all the money.

The judges were confirmed to their positions by the Supreme authority in this Kingdom....(hopeyou understand who this is).

To call the rullings of these judges thieves is to to be on the verge of Les Majasty charges.

You have a short memory of when other in the "family" got caught giving "candy" to the judges staff just before Pojaman's trial, and spent 6 months in jail, which was totally unpresidented in the history of Thailand.

This is a "a surgical, non-violent way"???? Are you sure?

Why Farangs from the USA wanna start a war in Thailand?

This is the American way of all things

It is not a war....just discipline.

When your children become rebellious how long do you allow it to continue? For me, I will discuss what is right, I will tell the consequences of continued rebellion, give a short time to sink in, then I act. This is not war. You have certain norms of behavior, even in a protest. When you cross that line and think you are equal or better than the authority in this country, then do not be surprised when a heavy hand is laid on you.

I listened to a televised speech yesterday:

"Do your job with honesty. In this country there may be some people who forget their duty.

You should be an example by working honestly and properly, your job is very important,"

"Working honestly will boost the country's progress and serve as an example for citizens, for civil servants and other people.

It will help the country to live in peace and contentment,"

"You should help maintain justice. If you can strictly follow your oaths, it will help the country remain orderly,"

"Being honest is not easy, there will be many temptations."

I believe the authority in Thailand has spoken, softly as usual, but precisely as is his way. Continue to ignore at your own peril.

I was just looking at that army supplied chart of the plot against the monarchy. I dont know where this is all going but it is quite worrying. Take a look at it. It includes more than just Giles and Red Siam or something and includes pretty much the whole opposition by naming Peau Thai Party. We are really in uncharted territotry now. Do all of these people really want to change the system?

By the way you can get it with English translation via BPundit blog

It is indeed very worrying. Thaskin got himself in the cross-hairs when he looked at the riches of the Kingdom, and then decided he could make it his. I believe the wealth contained therein is about the top in the world.

Why do you think a few days ago when the stickers came out "Thaskin for President" it was so vehemently repudiated?

Who does the army say they owe loyalty too?

I and my wife have substantial investments in Thailand. This could have catastrophic reprecutions for us and our family here.

Back at the start of the month there were some fairly simple solutions that could be taken to buy time and defuse the situation. Once the protesters changed from just people meeting and protesting to being a para-military force, with a law unto themselves and answering to no one, the solutions become difficult, unless you are willing to do the hard things that will be necessary. Does Abhisit and the General have the stones for it.....time will tell.

I don't get all this anarchy stuff....where I live it isvery nice and peaceful (Isan)...I haven't seen any red-men with sharpened bamboo sticks, or black men AK47s or M16s either...we did have a firework display on Sunday evening to honor Kamo...the loud noises frightened my wife....but I can attest that it is not in the least bit anarchic here...

What seems to be happening is that a few hundred (Nation numbers) boisterous people have made it inconvenient for the ultra rich to shop in some of Bangkok's more exclusive malls...I agree that this is a terrible thing for them to do...how wouldyou feel if you couldn't drive your $500000 Benz to your favorite shopping mall...terrible of course... but the press are blowing the anarchy thing out of proportion....we have lovely malls up here in Isan and factory outlets too....maybe you should come and do your shopping up here until the red shirts...you may even find that the prices are better....

And of course we could wear the XXXX favorite color, yellow, when we come to visit and shop.

Would not raise any problems would it?

Things were beautiful in Thailand when Mr. T was here before and I'm sure they will be relatively beautiful were he to win a democratic election. Forget your obsession with Mr. T for a moment and consider the wider scope of the situation. There is hope. Listen to the words of Aung San Suu Kyi!

Well let us look at that statement:

How many extra-judicial killings were sanctioned by Mr T?

How many journalist and rivals just disappeared?

How many hundreds of Muslims in the south are rotting in trench graves?

Where would Thailand be now, if Mr T had not plundered so much of the wealth of the country?

So Yes I would agree with your statement "Things wre beautiful in Thailand when Mr T was here before", if I were Kunying Pojaman. (And she was not facing 3 years in jail for tax evasion).

Some here have very short selective memories...When Prime Minister Abhisit' wanted to go to Chang Mai just 3 months ago, the threat of violence was so great he had to cancel.

Now for those of you that think Thailand is not falling into anarchy, then please explain when the leader of a country wishes to address his countrymen and you have the red shirts making serious enough threats against his appearance that he is forced to cancel? Is this democracy?

Maybe the thing to do is the grant Issan independence, and let them have their own country? The could even grant their great patriarch Thaskin citizenship that way. With their black shirt guards, great bastions of learning, I am sure they could show the way to really run a country.

that's it for me i am not going to bother reading anything else in this rubbish tabloid(the nation) what a load of crap from an obvious yellow shirt supporter.

Interesting you would totally reject this article. Does this seem like a normal nation to you?

When you go shopping do you have to get permission to enter a fort, and pass interrogation by so red shirted "protesters"

Some days the sky train runs and some days not, depending on the whims of some out of town group.

Some days you can drive down federal highways, some days you have to allow yourself to be searched by a mob.

Sometimes you can go for a ride on the sky-train, some-days you get ambushed by grenades and die.

To call the anarchy is indeed total rubbish....there is little difference between Thailand today and most countries in the world.

Yep and I know you love your yaba-yaba, you can see so clearly after a dose.

Why doesn't Thailand use crowd dispersal measures such as water cannons and rubber bullets? They seem to work in other places.

Guess you didn't see much of what was going on earlier... the protesters kidnapping and disarming police and army, even commandos that went to arrest one of the redshirt leaders ended up disarmed and locked up in a room for the media to take photos of.

Not to mention the water canons that were sent to Rajaprasong, and got hijacked even before getting there. Army had to negotiate to get them back.

There were many slip-ups like that in the past month or so.

We're yet to see how successful this attempt would get. I already said that given where the reds are encamped, and how determined they are to burn the area to the ground, this will turn very ugly very quickly, with army possibly fighting a losing battle.

I do understand the need for the government to remove the redshirts from the area.

I am just not sure if the show of muscles will achieve what it needs to, in order to bring peace.

On the other hand - the "peaceful" militants have been pushing for this much too long and the government, army, police and honestly the whole country looks like a joke because of this, and while the international community always comes up with wishes that things are resolved peacefully, it is nearly never the case.

I mean, if you were US, and you can't stay quiet, what should you say? "Blast'em!"? Obviously not. That doesn't mean that behind the official facade there isn't understanding that sometimes the most unpopular method needs to be used when all the others are tried and failed.

Whatever happens next, stay safe, everyone.

Could the armed encampment be "just blasted". Absolutly, but normal morality will not allow it.

Too many complanin on here nobody offers any alternitives...so let me give it a shot.

1. The protesters need to be shut down, as they have morfed into a para-military group with road blocks, dictating the movement of police and troops, conducting searches of anybody they desire for any reason, targeted assisinations....all these are way outside the bounds of a "protest".

2. A reasonable amoutn of force will be necessary to dismantly the encampment, yet a need to safegaurd the government that has the task to do so..

3. A possible solution:

a. Put the snipers in high buildings surounding the area to protect against M79 and other attacks like happened last time.

b. Bring up armored vehicles with dozer attachements on the front to clear the roads.

c. Bring up flame throwers to and start out of range moving up. People will never stand in fight with the possibility of becoming a crispy critter.

d. Circle the helicopters for intimidation

e. Cut all electricity in the area.

f. Have heavy reinforecemnt of police to arrest all those fleeing, and then sort them out, so those with arrest warrents can be detainied.

g. If they are available, the USA used some sonic weapons for crowd control in Iraq...pretty succefully. Nice bloodless tool. Block the side streets with these, and herd them to the collection points like at the sports areana area.

I believe this opeation could be carried out quickly...the main dangers is that of compromise by the traitors within the government that wish to see the group succeed.

Even with the most carefully laid plans can there be death and injuries...yes...but it is the price you pay for the side you support.

Let the flames begin...but this is a surgical, non-violent way to bring it all to an end.

Pretty narrowed minded of you.....It is conceded the Bangkok is mostly yellow shirts. If my town had been invaded in order to restore a criminal to his "Kingdom", I would be pretty upset with my government if they could not enforce the law. It is almost like some motorcycle gang taking over a small town, and everybody is afraid to act.

Here you have what has become a para-military force, setting up road blocks, stopping traffic, ordering both police and army not to travel....

They have now constructed a fort in the middle of the business district, have beaten people they consider non-sympathetic, have killed people that were a-political (the woman at the sky train that just brought water and a flower for the soldier to cheer them up), have kidnapped people. On and on. (It is all chronicled here in TV for pages and pages)

Maybe it is time for some "vigilante" action?

What I fail to understand, how is the government allowing this protest site to continue. Cut off all power, water, jam all communications. Make it dry up...

Now some might say....what about the residents.....well if you have ever been in a war zone, do not expect to continue with a normal life.

These kinds of measures would quickly disperse all but the rotten core group.

Some will argue...but they will just bring in generators.....gee, a single 50 cal bullet from a sniper ends that generator, (non violently again).

As small groups try to move to other parts of the city, arrest them...

As for the compromise.....I have posted before this question "What is the urgent need for elections NOW, and not waiting until when the constitution mandates elections??"

In the USA the current president and the former president had large groups that really despised them. Yet there was never a call in that seasoned democracy for elections NOW, instead of when the Constitution mandated them.

I am more than a little disappointed the current Thai government is letting this grow.

If this incident does not make a total fool of the military, nothing will. I can envision no other country on earth, where hundreds of military can be told "you cannot got anywhere, you have to stay here"

300 military vs 1000 protesters, not even a contest. And if I was the general in charge, and my local commander did not act, I would dispatch 10,000 troops to make sure this ended IMMEDIATELY!!

SoiGirlHunter:

I have a little story to relate for you to ponder, as you play on emotions of others.

I have been around Thailand off and on for decades, and have a pretty good understanding of the culture.

1st do not blame your mia noi for the acts of her family. Anybody that knows this culture, knows the women are not held in much esteem by the families. The loss of a daughter is not considered very important. It took my wife a lot of years to figure out her family did not love her, just her money.

2nd, maybe her feeling are indeed true. And that is a rare gem to find. (I know I have one).

In my wife's village there is a girl (now a middle age woman), who came home 15 years ago in a taxi to get everything ready for her marriage in 5 days. Of course she had no money to pay, but "Dave" would be coming in 2 days, on the train and would pay for everything. A week later, her dirt poor rice farming family scraped enough money together to pay off the cab. We call her the crazy lady, and she still writes letters to Dave 15 years later, or makes little packages of something she sewed, or made to send to Dave. Many many times she has handed me letters or packages to mail to Dave> It does no good to argue, her mind is locked in the past. She speaks pretty good English with a British accent. I tried to hire her (just to help her poor family), but my wife put and end to it when she announced she was going to be my wife. (Back on the medications, that have kept her a zombie for a lot of the past 15 years).

Somehow her mind will not accept that her Quan Tah will never come. I would give anything to know what happened to him...It could have been simply he got lost and could not find the way, or he ran away from somebody that loved him too much????? If it was the latter, then he owes a huge karmic debt for completely ruining this girls life. I am always reminded of the song Delta Dawn when I see her.

I like how the OP tries to compare Zimbabwe to Thailand.

No, Zimbabwe was run by Euro thief outsiders, who had no business in Zimbabwe other than to oppress and steal from the Native African people. When the people finally did rise up on their own, with a leader from within their ranks. Angry white run nations threw tons of trade sanctions on them, which is the real reason why their economy dropped.

In Thailand it's all about the Thais. Their is no colonial structure here holding the Thai people down.

Well Huey,

That is a pretty Pollyanna attitude of yours. I have visited, hunted, and had friends living in Rhodesia, and considered moving there myself, so my observation are just not from some book or obscure article I read, but from real life experiences.

1. The Rhodesian citizens that were born there for numerous generations were were hardly "Euro thief outsiders". The vast majority of what is now Zimbabwe population migrated to this area for the jobs and higher standard of living it afforded them.

2. The sanctions only came when the current government started to seize their property and expelled them from their country..Most held no other passport except for Rhodesian/Zimbabwe. In sort Africans do what they do so well and conducted an "ethnic cleansing", thus bringing sanctions on themselves for conduct that is universally repudiated.

3. Even without the sanctions, those that took possession of vast productive farms, were unable to even feed their family's from what before was feeding the whole country and exporting food to other countries, thus bring prosperity, jobs, and a much higher standard of living nation wide than what you find there today.

Thaskin and his party Thai rak Thai (Thai's love Thai's) was moving in this direction when he was ousted....so I stand by my link between the 2 societies.

If you have any real life experiences to bring to the table to talk about please do. We have all heard the academic crap that is passed around as facts.

Well said.. blacks and Thais have a lot in common always blame foreigners whites for their problems. Yes i generalize but that poster asked for it.

Please, blaming the "white man" for our problems is like blaming a Kleptomaniac for stealing. Yes a Klepto steals but crying about it isn't going to stop him you just have to find a way to tighten your defenses.

Secondly I stand by what I said about Euro Thief outsiders, considering 2% of the population (whites) owned 70% of the airable land. And on top of that they made it illeagle to publicly speak the truth about Great Zimbabwe's national heritage. (Large castles and complex international Trade some 800-500 years ago).

Paul Sinclair, A museum curator during the occupation, recounts

"I was the archaeologist stationed at Great Zimbabwe. I was told by the then-director of the Museums and Monuments organization to be extremely careful about talking to the press about the origins of the [Great] Zimbabwe state. I was told that the museum service was in a difficult situation, that the government was pressurizing them to withhold the correct information. Censorship of guidebooks, museum displays, school textbooks, radio programes, newspapers and films was a daily occurrence. Once a member of the Museum Board of Trustees threatened me with losing my job if I said publicly that blacks had built Zimbabwe. He said it was okay to say the yellow people had built it, but I wasn't allowed to mention radio carbon dates... It was the first time since Germany in the thirties that archaeology has been so directly censored."

It wasn't enough for the scum bags to steal the African's land but for a time they stole something even more valuable, their heritage.

This is why I say there is no parallel between Zimbabwe and Thailand.

Thai's know very well their heritage, and foreign land ownership is minimal. This is a struggle against themselves, not against a occupying force of foreign thieves.

Great Zimbabwe is a ruined city that was once the capital of the Kingdom of Zimbabwe, which existed from 1270 to 1550 CE during the country’s Late Iron Age. The mediaeval monument, which first began to be constructed in the 11th century and which continued to be built till the 14th century, spanned an area of 722 hectares (1,784 acres) and at its peak could have housed up to 18,000 people. Great Zimbabwe acted as a royal palace for the Zimbabwean monarch and would have been used as the seat of their political power. One of its most prominent features were its walls, some of which were over five metres high and which were constructed without mortar.

Eventually, the city was largely abandoned, and fell into ruin, first being encountered by Europeans in the early 16th century

It was not the Europeans that casused the downfall of Zimbawe, but they themselves even as it is today. That entire emire was nothing by the time European settlers moved to the area in the 1800's.

Your agrument lacks the facts you purpose that it was the Europeans that caused the downfall of Zimbabwe.

I like how the OP tries to compare Zimbabwe to Thailand.

No, Zimbabwe was run by Euro thief outsiders, who had no business in Zimbabwe other than to oppress and steal from the Native African people. When the people finally did rise up on their own, with a leader from within their ranks. Angry white run nations threw tons of trade sanctions on them, which is the real reason why their economy dropped.

In Thailand it's all about the Thais. Their is no colonial structure here holding the Thai people down.

Well Huey,

That is a pretty Pollyanna attitude of yours. I have visited, hunted, and had friends living in Rhodesia, and considered moving there myself, so my observation are just not from some book or obscure article I read, but from real life experiences.

1. The Rhodesian citizens that were born there for numerous generations were were hardly "Euro thief outsiders". The vast majority of what is now Zimbabwe population migrated to this area for the jobs and higher standard of living it afforded them.

2. The sanctions only came when the current government started to seize their property and expelled them from their country..Most held no other passport except for Rhodesian/Zimbabwe. In sort Africans do what they do so well and conducted an "ethnic cleansing", thus bringing sanctions on themselves for conduct that is universally repudiated.

3. Even without the sanctions, those that took possession of vast productive farms, were unable to even feed their family's from what before was feeding the whole country and exporting food to other countries, thus bring prosperity, jobs, and a much higher standard of living nation wide than what you find there today.

Thaskin and his party Thai rak Thai (Thai's love Thai's) was moving in this direction when he was ousted....so I stand by my link between the 2 societies.

If you have any real life experiences to bring to the table to talk about please do. We have all heard the academic crap that is passed around as facts.

I moved the picture to Photoshop and blew it up to study..

1st person with the black balaclava:

1. The gun in hand is a M16 but does not have an ammo clip inserted at this time.

2. Another automatic short barreled gun is hanging on his left side.

3. Over the left arm is a shooting bag with multiple 30 round magazines

4. The features do not appear to be Thai of the 1st person.

5. He is wearing rubber surgical gloves so as to not leave finger prints on magazines he has handled..

6. Possible radio in the upper right pocket

7. A hand gun is also holstered.

8. Camo T-shirt under tactical black jacket.

9. Black mike cord leading under the head covering.

Could be a professional or a mercenary?

Age maybe late 30's or 40's??

2nd person that nobody has noticed or at least mentioned:

1. Looks Thai

2. No gloves

3. Rifle similar to a bullpup (compact auto or semi auto)

4. Pistol tucked in waist band

5. Shooting bag with ammo. Maybe grenades?

6. 2nd rifle slung over right shoulder.

7. White T-shirt under Tactical jacket...

Not nearly as professional as the 1st guy. Something is clipped onto his white T-shirt...maybe a mike?

Bottom line, both heavily armed with 2 rifles. None that I can see are capable of firing a M79 grenade however, but maybe the one in back of shooter 2.

These are not protesters, they are men on a mission....as far as the guess that the camera man was shot for shooting this picture. Of the 3 rifles that are in sight, none are ready to shoot. So I think not.

They appear to be crossing a bridge.

Best guess from studying the pictures...they are on a job assignment, and are in contact with who ever is paying them and giving the orders. They are prepared to shoot their way out of trouble should they be surrounded after the assignment is finished. Too much ammo and too many guns for just a simple go shoot a couple of targets. Shooting their way back through the red shirts could be blamed on the targets and the people around them. If I were the military, I would find these 2 and wire them up to find out who was paying their salary.

The 1st shooters rifle is set-up for long range shooting...That is no silencer, just a simple flash suppressor common on almost all M16's

I would like to bring the focus of this topic back to the center point:

What is so urgent that requires the loss of life, and injury to hundress of people,the damaging of hundreds of companies, that could not wait until the normal election cycle???

I can see no urgency, but am open for somebody to expain it to me.

Best answer is Thaskin want his money now, and the country be damned

3. Often times I have seen her loan money to people in villages around her family home. When we returned to visit with her family she had washed the yellow shirts we had worn at the rally a few nights before and hung then to dry. 2 people that both owed her money stopped by, I think to ask for more time, but when they saw the yellow shirts, they starting expressing some very negative words about the PAD. Normally she is a generous person and would have told them OK 2 more years, you work your land, give my 25% and save to pay me back. Well this time she told them "NO....Go ask Thakin to help you", took the land and kicked them off. I tried to talk to her a bit about this, but I have learned I do not get into fights over things that do not directly effect me. He mind was made up.."If these 2 buffalo brains do not love my King, then they should not have land in his Kingdom." Normally she is generous. A few years ago everybody in the village was in trouble about money, so she bought all the silk in the village to help them out. (We still have boxes of material sitting around).

So your wife charges 25% yearly interest to poor peasants (that's just 1800 basis points above average lending rate after all ) and then sends the proceeds to the PAD "to help her King" who btw has an extimated wealth of 36 billion $.

What can I say ... I'm speechless

Not quite... She loaned the money against the land. In most cases even if the loan is not repaid, and she takes title to the land, she allows the people to continue farming the land and takes 25% of the crop. A far cry from 25% intrest.

... She fired him the next day because he supported the Red shirts...

OW, I do not want to pick a fight here, but that action by your 'yellow-shirt' wife is a clear example of why many people (Thai and farang) are sympathetic to the Red shirt movement.

If I had a driver, I would not remove his employment (and probably his source of income to support his family etc), simply because of his political leanings.

Simon

Simon,

I agree with you. BUT I like my peace at home, and will not fight somebodies else s battles. Ultimately I do have the final say in my family, but with items like this, it is simply "I don't have a dog in this fight". As far as his family goes, he had dumped his wife of 20 years last year, for a new Mia Noi...but TIT. (This may have colored some of my wife's emotion, as she knew his wife as well). So maybe it was an excuse she was looking for.

you think thaksin is offended by what farangs say on internet forums

im sure he wont do anything to the detriment of farangs.

anyone know who pumps more baht into issan. taksin or FARANGS

If you were here when he was first elected, you would have seen he did an awful lot to the detriment of farangs. Weekly changes to Visa regs at whim spring to mind.

Thaskin = Thai rak Thai....(Thai's love Thai's). This is his party....xenophobic.....could be

Undeniable this is how he came to power.

Turns on the box and says, I want to know if army kill all the red shirts yet.

Well at least I know my wife is not the only one to feel that way.

A country (if it wishes to appear to be a country with a constitution and laws) simply cannot let a very small portion of the population dictate who can be in power and when you must hold elections. (Yes, I know some will point out the PAD, BUT it was the court, not the protest that brought down the regimes).

I can see nothing that is so urgent or life threatening that an election must be held before the scheduled time for it.

My wife says bring in the tanks and bull dozers, shove all the stages, bikes, taxis and trucks into the klong. Have elections next year and then what happens som nah nah, but at least it is a constitutional election.

I sit here on the side lines and observe my Thai wife through these trials and tribulations. I personally have no axe to grind.

1st my wife came from a small farming village in Issan. She was raised as thousands of other elder daughters, were it was more important to take care of her younger siblings than get any education....hence 4 years of Thai schools was all she attended. She left home at 15 to be a maid in BKK, came home at 22 and borrowed 250,000 baht from her rich uncle at a interest rate of 10% a month. Started a sewing company in BKK, and repaid the money in 7 months. We met and married when she was 29. One might expect her attitudes to be similar to what we see coming from Issan today,,,,but no....(We have now been married 14 years).

I was surprised when the yellow shirts started their protest a few years ago, that my wife kept ASTV on day and night. When they blocked Parliament she would sleep on the floor in-front of her ASTV. It was then I found out she had been at the 92 protest when all the students were killed. (Little did I relize I had married a political activist. Who would have expected this from a simple Issan girl?).

We now have what are described in the news as rural poor, and uneducated people demanding the government disband and allow an immediate election. If we look at history and what has happened in other countries in similar situations:

1. Mao led a peasant revolution against the government of China...Result...China got the government the "people" demanded, but their life certainly was not better and all the business, and professionals were turned into coolie labor, and private property vanished, being taken over by the "people's Government".

2. Rhodesia, with the strong backing of the USA and Brittan was forced into "democracy" allowing 1 vote 1 person,,,We now have a country called Zimbabwe, 50% unemployment, worthless currency with a 12,000% annual inflation rate. But the people have their "Peoples Government" with regular election...Somehow Mugabe seems to always win....

A lot of people on this board have been beating the drum for 1 person/1 vote, and when the PAD suggested "new politics" they went absolutely insane with the idea that everybody was not equal. But in truth are they??....Personally I would be in favor of a government system that gave everybody 1 vote, and if you paid taxes, a 2nd vote, or if you owned land a 2nd vote (either/or), if you employed more than 5 people and paid taxes on them, maybe a 3rd vote. (But this from an old man that started his own business at the age of 23, was wealthy a few years later, and had the government taking 6 figure taxes from me, so I freely admit I am some where to the right of Genghis Khan. ) In the USA (being tax time right now) it was announced 47% of the citizens pay no tax at all. Yet they have an equal vote, and why should they care what it cost, as they do not contribute.

So back to the situation in Thailand...Nobody will seriously argue that corruption is not rampant in elections. It is an expected way of life. Certainly in rural Thailand, it is not the person with the best ideas or campaign promises that will get the majority vote, but the person that offers the best price per vote. Yet if the majority simply vote the person that offers them the best deal what will become of the country? The "elite" as they are called in the press, will they just go along with the new government...(and lets leave Thaskin return out of this discussion and it really clouds the issues). I think not. Aynn Rand once wrote Atlas Shrugged about similar situations. (One of my favorite books.)

So back to my Issan wife and her activities...

1. I am certain she is the one and only none red shirt in her little village. When the PAD were having rallies we had one of our very rare fights...she wanted to return to Thailand and join the rallies. In the end she wired some 200,000 baht donation to them, rubbing my nose on the receipt and stating, "I fight for my King in my own way, with my own money"

2. Last year when we spent a month in Thailand she wanted to go to a Yellow Shirt rally somewhere a few hours outside of BKK> When we arrived, our driver we always use for the past 10 years was sort of a personal friend, was clearly uncomfortable. She fired him the next day because he supported the Red shirts.

3. Often times I have seen her loan money to people in villages around her family home. When we returned to visit with her family she had washed the yellow shirts we had worn at the rally a few nights before and hung then to dry. 2 people that both owed her money stopped by, I think to ask for more time, but when they saw the yellow shirts, they starting expressing some very negative words about the PAD. Normally she is a generous person and would have told them OK 2 more years, you work your land, give my 25% and save to pay me back. Well this time she told them "NO....Go ask Thakin to help you", took the land and kicked them off. I tried to talk to her a bit about this, but I have learned I do not get into fights over things that do not directly effect me. He mind was made up.."If these 2 buffalo brains do not love my King, then they should not have land in his Kingdom." Normally she is generous. A few years ago everybody in the village was in trouble about money, so she bought all the silk in the village to help them out. (We still have boxes of material sitting around).

What I have created is a capitalist, she makes her own money, has her own bank accounts, and a bunch of Chanotes. This divide between red and yellow is very deep. Thaskin did a good job of brainwashing the poor. I asked my mother-in-law how this street got paved in the village. "Thaskin loves us, and he is rich, so he paid for it". Might as well go an argue about religion because you cannot change their minds. It is a firmly held belief. The other end is the people that have business and do pay taxes in the Kingdom, are simply not going to allow themselves to be taxed and regulated into oblivion, and finally the 3rd part is the established military and politicians that for so many years have been fed by kickbacks and corruption, are not going to be changed as well.

The one thing that while it cannot be discussed openly, but should be remembered is Thailand is not a democracy, but a Constitutional Monarch. And while that presences is never discussed, it was that in itself that ended the similar problems in 1992. Never forget this is the Kingdom of Thailand.

I would invite other thoughtful discussion on how all this will play out. As for my wife's thoughts. This morning she stated "I hate this government. Too weak. If this was some other country or even Thaskin, they would have MADE the protesters obey the law. In a few months what ever happened will be forgotten." she went on the say, "Next year we will have elections, so the DAAD can wait until then if they think they can win". "What do they need to have happen today, that cannot wait until elections"?

And I think that makes the key point. What is it about Issan that is so urgent it demands the country be torn apart in strife, and the loss of life and injuries that could not wait until elections next year?

The part that totally baffles me How can any government claim when somebody gets in an airplane they don't know where they are going.

Nobody flys a jet without a flight plan, Any dummy sitting within a mile of airport with a $100 radio can listen to the clearance delivery frequency and hear the flight plan being broadcast to the aircraft in English or sometimes French before they taxi out for take-off.

Anybody that wanted to invest just a little time and money can do this. It is not encrypted. It is in plain language.

Even if I had an intellignece orginization with only a dozen people I could keep track to the wondering of the who Shiniwatra clan.

Try to get taxi clearance without a flight plan...and if you want a serious violation, call in sometime saying "This is gulfstream xxxxxx decending out of Flight Level 320 (that is 32,000 ft), request landing clearance....No flight plan no clearance.

Also nobody that is operating a charter aircraft is going to endanger there multi-million dollar investment for somebody that insist not to file a flight plan for a $20,000 charter...just is not going to happen.

So if Khun Thaskin did leave Montinegro, did he do it on a charter, or a commercial flight? If so where was that flight going?

Once you know the commercial flight number, or registration number of a charter aircraft, you can even get on the internet and look up the flight plan.

So I really reject the idea the Thaskin is so clandestine nobody knows where he comes and goes to.

Montenegrin : Visa free travel would not be unduly compromised by the Sovereign State of Montenegro providing a diplomatic or traditional passport to a national of another country.

You have endeavored to ask a number of questions, a few of which I'll attempt to answer.

Khun Thaksin was under investigation and subject to trail before becoming Prime Minister first time in 2001. In that case, he called his actions 'an honest mistake' [which some might view as an acknowledgment of guilt] and we now know, because some the Judges have stated publicly that they decided that his electoral majority should be considered in his favour. They therefore acquitted him so he could continue as elected PM.

During his period in office a number of events occurred @2,500 people killed during a self described 'war on drugs', a prominent human rights lawyer disappeared off a street and is believed to have been murdered, probably by members of the Police. [note both PM Thaksin, and his deputy expressed that this was the most likely reality]. This along with actions resulting in deaths in the south of Thailand, led to a position where the actions of the security services was given latitude by silence [at best] or deliberate encouragement [at worst]. The point here is that a state can and often does reflect the moral compass of the Head of Government.

Further, Khun Thakisn returned to Thailand after the coup and attended the trail. However, he asked and was given bail to attend the opening of the Olympics in Beijing, from which he never returned, hence the description of his being sentenced in absentia, not tried in absentia which some people mistake this for.

More recently, as you noted a PM [Khun Samak] was disbarred owing to his hosting a cooking show [for payment]. The late Samak had also been found guilty of offences which would prevent him from being the PM, however these matters were still under appeal [having already lost at least one appeal hearing] and after his death the cases did not proceed. In other words the cooking show issue was the least of the issues he had. One last point here, the law is very clear, the Prime Minister may not accept payment for services whilst serving the country. I don't know if this translates well, but the court view was that his position was like being a little bit pregnant. Equally, can it be reasonable that the PM of the country openly and deliberately flouts the law of the land, whilst being, in principal the centre of such authority?

On another point, the parliamentary system here works on the election of the PM by the house of representatives, as is the case in many representative democracies. In most cases people don't see it, since the largest party or group appoints the head of the largest party to be PM and the vote is a formality. The process is described as first among equals.

Lastly, Khun Thaksin has never argued the legal basis for his conviction, though he has argued the court was biased against him [Note the positive bias shown in 2001].

Hope these pointers help in you ascertaining more about Khun Thaksin and his time in office.

Regards

Excelent post....

I do with you would have included Khunying Pojaman however....his wife of many years, who was really the power broker behind Khun Thaskin...was sentenced to 3 years in Jail for tax evasion just before his conviction. Her attornies (also relitives) were sent directly to jail from the courthouse after trying to give a candy box with 2,000,000 baht to the judge hearing her case. Then was disbared.

Oh and lest we forget he just lost another case for abuse of power and had 40 billion baht forfeited to the government.

So you can see what a upstanding family we have here All just devoted to the poor under privliged and down trodden Issan people.

So if you do not find a lot of simpathy for him here, there are reasons that go back many years.

Well Brit. Here is the Thai law on the subject:

THAILAND

CITIZENSHIP: Citizenship laws are based on the Nationality Act of 1965 with Amendment No.2 AD 1992 and Amendment No.3 AD 1993.

BY BIRTH: Birth within the territory of Thailand does not automatically confer citizenship. A person born of a father or mother of Thai nationality, whether within or outside the Thai Kingdom.

A person born within the Thai Kingdom except a person of alien parents if, at the time of birth, the father was not married to the mother, unless the mother was given leniency for temporary residence or had been permitted to stay temporarily in the Thai Kingdom, unless she had entered the Kingdom without permission.

BY DESCENT: Child born in wedlock, either of whose parents is a citizen of Thailand, regardless of the child's country of birth. Child born out of wedlock, whose mother is a citizen of Thailand and whose father is unknown or stateless, regardless of the child's country of birth.

BY NATURALIZATION: Before being able to apply for Thai citizenship, the person must have the following qualifications: Have displayed good behavior. Have a regular occupation. Have a domicile in the Thai Kingdom for a consecutive period of not less than five years. Have knowledge of Thai language.

DUAL CITIZENSHIP: NOT RECOGNIZED. Exceptions:

Child born abroad to Thai parents, who obtains the citizenship of the foreign country of birth, may retain dual citizenship until reaching the age of majority (18). At this point, person must choose which citizenship to retain.

A Thai woman who marries a foreign national and acquires her husband's citizenship has technically lost her Thai citizenship. Should the marriage end in death or divorce, the Thai national woman could regain her Thai citizenship. This is an unofficial dual citizenship designed to protect female Thai nationals.

LOSS OF CITIZENSHIP:

VOLUNTARY: Voluntary renunciation of citizenship is permitted by Thai law. Contact the Embassy for details and proper paperwork. If a person of Thai nationality who was born of an alien father and has acquired the nationality of their father desires to retain the other nationality, they must renounce Thai nationality within one year after attaining the age of twenty years.

INVOLUNTARY: The following are grounds for involuntary loss of Thai citizenship: Person voluntarily acquires foreign citizenship.

^unfortunately you have lost the plot - you are by birth a citizen of your country, no matter how you twist it this will always be the case.

Sorry Brit...but you are incorrect. I had two of my bretheren-in-arms that went adventuring in Africa some years ago. Lost their citizenship and became persona non grata in the country of their birth...

This is fact, not academic theory. I am personally connected to these 2 people.