old wanderer

BTW you can't revoke citizenship of someplace you are born. (facts are facts - once thai always thai)

That fact is simply not true.

In the USA Under Supreme Court rulings, those born in the USA have citizenship, which can only be lost by voting in a foreign election, volunteering for service in a foreign military,

Thaksin arrived on March 13 by a private plane from Dubai to the Montenegrin coastal town of Tivat, police said in a brief statement.

"Mr Thaksin Shinawatra is a citizen of Montenegro and he is here at the moment

And just becasue Thailand might proceed against him, there is absolutly no law that says if you act against one person, you must then act against all person in simular circumstances.

I had just gotten a non-im O visa (multiple entry) when I got tasked to go to Thailand for 3 weeks to teach some classes. I needed a work visa. I went to the Thai consulate with all the paperwork for my work visa, and they issued it, but voided my O visa that should have been good for a year. I had to spend the money to replace it when I returned....

So much for thinking they don't care if you have 2 visa in your PP...

If I remember some thread about Thai citizenship, it is illegal to hold dual citizenship..I realize that hundreds do, however, consider if indeed this is the LAW and the Thai Government confirmed that Thaskin is indeed a citizen of Montenegro, and moved to revoke his Thai citizenship.....Intresting bitch slap by the Thai government for all the trouble he has been giving them....

Does it matter if he personally paid for it? He respected them enough to get budgets assigned to get rural development projects done, where decades before there was just mud & dust. That's *a lot* more than any previous government did for them.

Yes it does matter just like the vote buying matters...

If indeed Thaskin was a real leader, why is he not here leading, instead at some resort in Motanegro? Why did his family and relitives all flee the country?

I would think that's obvious.. He's being prosecuted on politically motivated charges and cannot expect fair treatment under the current regime.

So does it matter if the Mafia gives money to the church, or to schools???? After all it is just money...and it does so much good...However there is always a price to be paid.

You've lost me.. I thought we all agreed that Thaksin implemented populist policies that empowered and developed previously forgotten rural areas. After that, the folks living in those rural areas thank him for it. It's basic politics, nay, basic human nature.[/color]

How is defining a criminal prosecution just politically motivated charges. Thaskin wife was sentenced to 3 years in jail for tax evasion. He was sentenced to 2 years in jail, and is facing at least 15 different criminal cases if he returns. However sitting in a safe resort, while your troops are putting themselves on the line, is the leadership of a coward.

If you also have a short memory, Thaskin was the king of filing libel suits against anyone and everyone when he was in power. Now that is political motivated cases. Politically motivated cases happen in civil court not criminal court.

Sorry you wish to be an ostrich about Thaskin...just like the mafia, he was a criminal enterpise, corrupting, stealing, killing, kidnapping, and intimidating people when he was in power. His policies did far more benifit for him, than they did for all the people of Issan. There is little talk about how many thousand lost thier land because they were not sophisticated enough to understand the agreements they signed. It was as easy as when the white men offered colored beads to the American Indians just for signing a piece of paper.

Have you also forgotten when he sold Man City, England confiscated the money, as he could not show where the money came from, as is the case with many criminals. He lost that money, and you can hardly say England was politially motivated when they took the money or revoked his visa..it was the law, not politics.

As you travel through Issan today, yes the people now have electricity and cell phones, the roads that were paved with an inch of blacktop are now full of pot holes, and there are few young wishing to stay in the villages, hence the slums we see around Bangkok, and the draw of the factories.

Some of this was started during Thaskins rein, however the King also played a major role in bringing this to the people.

As I said in my orginal post just like the Mafia Godfather, he may give you charity, he may do you a favor, but someday he will want to be paid back...

Does it matter if he personally paid for it? He respected them enough to get budgets assigned to get rural development projects done, where decades before there was just mud & dust. That's *a lot* more than any previous government did for them.

Yes it does matter just like the vote buying matters...

If indeed Thaskin was a real leader, why is he not here leading, instead at some resort in Motanegro? Why did his family and relitives all flee the country?

So does it matter if the Mafia gives money to the church, or to schools???? After all it is just money...and it does so much good...However there is always a price to be paid.

I know of dozens of people that took the easy credit, when the Thaskin government made it available, bought turcks, whiskey, and a few mia noi, never thinking about how to pay it back...When that land was taken for the loans not paid,,,who ultimatly made the profit...(I'll give you a hint...it was not a person in Thailand).

The question....Have the Red Shirts shot themselves in the foot?

You have to remember the movement is not a grass-roots movement, but a movement being financed by a person trying to get back a fortune he lost, an X wife facing 3 years in prison, who is awaiting an appeal, and he is subject to atleast 15 criminal cases once he is in the country and arrained.

Most of what we just saw were taking people that are doing little or nothing during this season, loading them on paid trucks, and paying them for their time.

Do the Northern Issan people love Thaskin...yes they do....but they have neither the money, education, nor motivation to take over the country.

A great example of what happens when you empower these types of people is Zimbabwe...Rodesia use to be the most productive country in Africa, but some bleeding hearts in Britian and the USA decided the uneducated masses should be empowered. So the country was forced into a "demecratic" election, and you can see how well this change worked out for them....80% unemployment, 12,000% anual inflation, nothing is produced or exported any longer.

My wife of 14 years comes from a very small village in Issan. She is the only anti-Thaskin person from that village that we are aware of. She has had more than a few very noisy discussions with neighbors and family about this. Her mother is absolutly convinced that Thaskin personally paid to have the road paved that passes through their village. Hard to overcome ignorance and predjudice.

Boy when I read stories like this, I feel soo lucky having been married for 14 years now...

A couple of suggestions that might push the relationship in a new direction...you say the daughters are like your own. Start asking them questions about your wife's private life....is she having an afair, talking confidentially to them you might have to leave, as you know trying to keep a secret in Thailand is impossible.

Two...start going to school to learn Thai...make it clear you are sick of being left out of the conversations, then go to school...you might not like it at 1st but as you start to gain proficiency you will. Better yet if it was in another city, so the family can feel some of the loss. Cut the funds a bit, to pay for your expenses and let them feel a little bit of the pinch...

You can always leave, but try something else to get off high center that you are stuck on now.

There are several things that seems to be missing in all the talk about change:

1. I believe that most of the policies that Thaskin implimented for the Isan people are still in place. The government would do well to show what was changed that brought the support from Isan, and then demonstrate what they have done to make those policies better. What was tried in good faith, but corrupted by the corruption of people given athority to carry out these policies. (ie the Rubber Tree planting)., and what did not work.

2. The DAAD (Red Shirts) seem to be demanding they want to govern. They have the numbers and ask for democracy. However a look at Rodesiia, and what happend when the British government, and the USA government forced chang. We now have Zimbabwe. The people got change....but only a few in the government that just goes on and on, really saw any benifit. The rest of the country is the very worst example of allowing a majority with minimal education take over a country.

The one person one vote does not work when the majority can totally ignore the rights of those who lost....Strong laws and constitution are needed, and people like Thaskin MUST be held accountable for his crimes.

My hat is off to the handling of the protesters yesterday my the military. With election on 18 months away, what will be done so that all voices can be heard in places like Chang Mai, where less than 2 years ago a people were killed for expressing a voice against the DAAD?

everybody should be happy that he is doing something else.

I am not happy he is not their. If he were, he would be arrested, then have his sorry arse drug over to the courts where he could be arraigned for the 15 some criminal cases that are stopped because Thai law requires a person to come before a court to hear the charges....he left for the Olympic 2 years ago promising to be back in a couple of weeks...

My wife comes from a really small village in Isan...She started her own company in Bangkok when she was 22, but has no education. She was at the anti-military rally 20 some years ago when all the students were killed. 2 years ago when the Yellow Shirts were having there protest, we had a rare argument. She wanted to return to Thailand to join the protest and support the King. She ended up sending several thousands of dollars to ASTV as a donation..(her money not mine). She was sleeping on the floor by the TV watching ASTV for weeks.

Last year when there was a ralley outside of Bangkok and we were in country. We went. It was clear our driver of almost 10 years that we use every time we visit, was not happy being there. Turns out he was a Red Shirt supporter....she fired him the next day.

There have been a few other people that have expressed a support for the Red Shirts, and she is pretty ruthless with them...I know she was holding 2 Chanotes for some money she had loaned. Now in the past even if the note was due, she would let the people keep farming and paying the money back..2 people she had loaned money to stopped by to see her when we visiting at the family home in the village. Hanging on the line were 2 yellow shirts that said, "We Love the King". When they expressed there displeasure at those yellow shirts, she called her loan and took the property...When I asked her about it she said, "If those stupid people think Thaskin can help them, they don't need my help. I love the King, and those people should not own land in his Kingdom, so I took it".

I would guess she is the only village person the does not support Thaskin. But she is by far the weathiest person in the village now, and most know just to keep their mouths shut, and wait till we have gone before spending hours discussing her. Even her mother believes Thaskin personally paid to have the dirt road through their village paved when he was PM....

Last time I went I also need a letter from my wife stating we were living together and still married.

Why does not one of our members who frequently travel in and out of the country, simply ask at the airport.....Sure beats all the speculation. They have a line from making declarations and paying duty, so stands to reason there is a purpose to this red line for items to declare.

Nothing like that has been posted on ThaiVisa. However, agreements concluded between husband and wife are easily voided at any time. So a land lease contract between husband and wife is not 100% secure.

We found this to be true....My wife owns a stack of Chanotes. The head of the land office has always been very good to us, and defered any little white envelopes for his employees...(almost unheard of I know). We were doing 2 Chanotes last year, and as always we wanted to register a USEFRET in my favor. Her Thai ID card has my last name, so there is no quesition we are married. Each time I have had to sign a document that I did not provide funds for the purchase of this property.

Well in casual conversation she mentioned we had been married 14 years.....He then went and pulled some of her files, and asked why she had filed this USEFRET as though she was single...really got upset with her, as he explained a lot of our ealier paperwork was illegal, and could cost her the property.

It took most of the next day to put everything straight. Yes I have a USEFRET, BUT since we are married if she so desires, she can revoke it at any time...

After 14 years I am not too worried, but it is mainly as a protection agains relitives should she have an accident. So be wary of the difference between what a married couple can do vs a unmarried couple.

Well I have just re-read this thread....Time flys, but back in the late 80s early 90s I was a coyboy and had a ranch (5000 acres). In one of my trade deals I ended up whit a Buycres Erie well drilling rig. I drilled well on the ranch up to 16" casing size and over 300 meters deep. A poor flow for me was 700 GPM pumping from a water head at 150' and my best well flowed 3000 gallons per minute using a 200 Hp electric pump...(It is absolutly awsome to flick a switch and watch a 12" diameter pipe throw water 20' sideways befor hitting the ground.

So a few suggestions for those in a sand area:

1. I have always used steel 1/4" wall welded casing....

2. There are well engineered sand screens for pulling water from sand layers...not too expensive and sized for your casing..(I think 6" is the smallest) 6" was also the smallest casing I ever set drilling with an 8" bit and after the casing is set, throw a bag of concrete to seal the base, then pea gravel then dirt, the about 10' down another bag of cement or 2 to prevent ground water entering your well water and contaminating it. (Especially if you have live stock around).

Next time I go to Thailand I am going to ask around about what equiptment is available..Cable tool if heavy enough, rotary, or reverse rotary, or hammer drills, all have thier places. I now regret I sold my well rig and all the stuff as I would have enjoyed making a real well.

One well I did complete was a 860' well with 14" casing. I used a 8" 5 stage pump driven by a 100 HP gear head connected to a diesle engine. I was flowing 650 gpm and 70 PSI to power a water powered center pivot that would irrigate a 200 acre field about 1" of water every 3 days.

My wife will say she is Thai, but in her village it is 1oo% Suay....(Small ethnic group that speak Kui)

One path that has not been discussed....a Farang holding a mortgage against the property.

In our case (married to a Thai with a Farang last name), I have a Usefret for each Chanote we own, (we have a lot of them) but then we went a step further and I "loaned" her 5,000,000b and took a mortgage back on each of the properties.

We both know her relatives have already had discussion on how to divide up all our property, and as far as they are concerned I do not count..(Interesting as to how greedy some can be). It took more than 10 years for my wife to come to this conclusion, given the natural family attachments they have.

Even though we are getting up in years, (I don't plan on dying for another 30 years however, just to irritate the family) we may just have to have a child..(no my 1st choice in life), or just will the whole shooting match to the church we belong to.

needforspeed:

Sad sad story....BUT, before I found the woman that was for me (Now almost 14 years), I had a similar situation to yours.

In this case it was 5 phone calls to England, and 3 to Germany when I was away one month. I called both the gentlemen and discussed the situation, both ended contact, and found pleasures elsewhere.

However I was not a happy camper, and had built a beautiful home on a mountain side overlooking a lake, so when I had all me ducks in a row, I just burned it down and went on down the road.

I would right a letter and ask some questions about the gentleman's intent:

Are you planning on supporting my children too, or just screwing my wife.

Would you please be sure to leave my car full of gas when you leave, and the frig full of beer.

etc..

With all that is available in Thailand, few men would find her so enticing to risk another farang coming home and looking for revenge.

As others have said, protect what ever assets you are able to. Sometimes things do work out

Choke Dee.

Last year, when gold was about $900/oz, I still had a substantial amount of money in several Thai banks. Since I new it would be over a year before we would return, I simply withdrew the money and bought the 5 and 10 baht gold bars in China town.

They were considered bullion, and exempt from declaration into the USA. Now at $1150/oz, am I a happy guy

(Every once in a while, my wife says..."I want to play with my gold and jewelry" and I open the safe and she lays it all over the bed, like a little girl playing with dolls. )

Did I make any money, NO, but I did keep my money from devaluation. I can return it to Thailand, or sell it here at full value.

I have done this for over a dozen properties my wife owns. It takes both our signatures to get the Chanote in her name, then I become the heir. Under Thai law I have 6 months to sell the property.

There is also the USEFRET, that allows the property to be willed to another person, but you retain possession until death. This works better if you have not changed her ID card to being a married woman. I spent several hours with the head of the land office explaining why a husband could not rent, or be the receiver of a lease or USEFRET. I was most interested in getting an exact legal resolution to the problem, not manipulating the system.

In the end it turned out a mortgage held by a trust company I set up, was the most bullet proof. No matter which way the chess board was moved, I still had check mate....and that is important in a country like Thailand.

Feeling a bit late to ask the question but we recently transferred our house from a Company to my wife

By the time this was done at the Land Office we were both not Directors of the Company

When the transfer was done we were asked to give copies of passports and we both signed one document she signed others

The house / land is in my wifes name alone but I am not sure why we both had to sign the one document

Anybody do similar and know what the form we signed was

If you show your wife as a married woman, then the husband has to sign that it is her sole property....I have done about 10 of these with my wife and her thirst for acquiring land. She then adds me as heir to the property....(If something should happen to her, I have 6 months to dispose of the property under Thai law).

A lot of Thai's do not show the wife as married to keep things simple at the land office. Fortunately for us, the head of the land office has become a friend, and anytime things are not quite right, he just says,,,,give a little something to the office people that have to fix it...

There is a very nice farm near Kuhn Gok Farm, outside of Wang Moung, Sara Buri...The owner used to be Miss Thailand...She has about 30 head of quarter horses, and a little highway restaurant. Ask around for the farm as it is on a highway not to far from all the waterfalls (15km).

Hope this helps....I used to have 50 head of horses on my ranch some years ago in the USA, so know how fun it can be to have them around.

Last time my wife and I were in Thailand, we had a reunion with a lot of her old Thai girlfriends....One who is a very giving and nice person asked my wife to help find her a "rich old man"...I sat back and listened...1st she had a Danish man that just adored her (18 years ago), sent her money did all the nice things, but she turned her back on him for a handsome Thai policeman.....2 kids, and he is gone....My wife asked her if she kept him happy in bed, to which she replied don't know I just know the dead fish position...I not care much.

Then my wife really lit into her...(and she used to be one of her closest friends). "You had your chance, and you like buffalo brain, listen to Thai man." "You not want somebody to love and be happy with, you just want them to die, so you can have money" "I would never introduce you to farang, because you just too cold dead fish" "Look at my husband, he good man, I work every day to make him smile, and he be happy. I be happy"

Now this girl is speaks pretty good English, (way better than my wife's 30 word vocabulary when we met,) is a Christian, and took care of my wife when she had TB and nobody wanted to be around her.....so I would have thought she would be a keeper...my wife says no way....

So my advice is, talk and find what her long term goals are. Educate her about responsibilities, then think about an introduction or 2. See what her sensitivity is about a man in her life.

I am one of the lucky ones, now married for 13 years, and they are just getting better. We make a pretty good team.

Sometimes I am amazed people have such short memories....Would you call Thaskin and his clan "friends" of the Monarchy?

While some would say Thaskin and some of his clan have only been convicted of a simple crime.....remember there are some 18+ cases waiting his reappearance here in Thailand. Until he can be brought before the court they cannot proceed with these cases. (Or stay outside the borders and let the statue of limitations run its course.)

Do you really believe the Red Shirts think they can get a pardon? (No precedent, outside the law and tradition for pardons)...and if it is rejected what a perfect excuse for anarchy, and the complete destruction of all the Thai traditions and institutions. All so one very very greedy homicidal maniac can return...

The best thing for Thailand would be if some dark night, Thaskin just disappeared as so many of his critics did. (Maybe Star Trek Scotty beamed them up, as nobody knew what happened.....just gone??)

I just went through this with my Thai wife. She has my last name....

It was required for me to sign a document for each Chanote that the money used was her money independant of my money. (We had 4 pieces of property).

If she has never changed her name, and but is in fact married, the transfer is illegal by the rules. If she is married and says she is married, but still uses her Thai last name, the assumption is she is married to a Thai, and may not be asked for this document from her husband.

I know many Thai, that do not declare there married status. However, they can find problems if they have relitives that care to stir things up.

The one advantage to declaring a marrriage to a farang, if something should happen title will pass to the farang, but he must sell within 6 months.

If she says she is single, dies, then titile passes to all the Thai relitives, not to the unknown spouce.

Well I have been married to my wife for around 13 years. Many years ago when this "loan" stuff 1st surfaced, I made a suggestion to my wife.

I will loan you the money, if you want you can loan them the money, but take a chanote as security..

I have either gotten all my money back (I let the wife keep the interest) or I have about 6 Chanotes (in my wife's name now) that I keep as security for the loans I mad her that she did not collect on, but ended up with some property...

Few of the shirt-tail relatives are unhappy, but we let the share crop their old land and see a profit most years. Others decided it was better to repay the money and get the Chanote back.

The most important thing is my wife is really happy, as she has all this land, and is treated like visiting royalty when she returns home. She has become a pretty hard nosed business woman, even making her sister sign a contract to work one piece of land.

And for sure, I am usually happy if the wife is happy.