Colin Yai

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-18475853 Surprise surprise its happened again and will continue unabated until something concrete is done ,hand wringing is just not enough, action is needed now .

What a bloody mess indeed! Some obvious double standards occurring in Syria. This yesterday from a White House spokesperson. "We call again on the Syrian regime to uphold it's commitments under the Kofi Annan plan". I note they are not calling on the Islamic terrorist insurgents to uphold their commitments under the Annan plan. America is being totally unrealistic and asking the impossible of the Assad regime, to stand back and allow armed gangs of foreign backed Islamic insurgents to roam the streets of Syria unopposed, killing civilians, military and police with impunity. It asks this knowing full well that no leader,whether dictatorial or democratic would allow these gangs to continue unchallenged. No matter how much one sided spin White House spokespersons try to put on it, they will never alter this obvious fact.

Does the UN also come under your broad brush of pro Russian rhetoric or just the US?

Pro Russian rhetoric? What are you talking about? Where did i mention Russia? Are you denying that Islamic insurgents are committing acts of terrorism in Syria, suicide bombings etc? How would the government of your country react to an assortment of foreign armed Islamic insurgents running amok, attacking police and military? Presumably they would just stand back and say "carry on lads".

The Way I see it Exsexyman rightly or wrongly ,anyone who is indifferent or not concerned as to what the Assad regime (bad as it may be) will be replaced with when the dust has settled is respectfully not thinking straight ,going off what has become of Libya , and the civil war in Iraq which appears to be going on at an ever increasing pace day by day ,The Answer?,sorry ain't a clue.http://topics.nytime...iraq/index.html read this link! what a bloody mess!

Surprised Chuck?,nah not really, us on the right are pretty fair minded and level headed people as you are very well aware, and per usual Chuck, well observed!

It's a great system when an illegal can get off a plane or boat claim to be a refugee and get tax payers assistance for health care, housing, welfare etc. Yet I who have worked all my life paying taxes, go back because I need an eye op am told I am no longer a resident and have no rights to assistance. Not even an OAP if I make it to that age.They the Gov have screwed us over for many years and there will come a time when the worm will turn, but I bet those with power will have left by then. Jim

AI know it's off topic, but interested in your statement re OAP. I have contacted Centrelink on this matter and they advised would have to return to Australia and "prove" intent of permanent residency. If approved would then be obligated to remain in Oz a minimum of two years to continuing receiving OAP if I relocated overseas. Any info on proving permanent residency?

That's right you can return and go back as a permenent resident to claim the OAP, but you must be in country for 2 years prior or 2 years after you apply and get approved.. My home is now Thailand, wife, kids, house and dogs. Make my living here, can't give up 2 years of my life to get a dog food and baked bean OAP, have nothing to go back to anyway, would end up as an urban outdoorsman. Jim

So Jim am I correct in assuming that all the money you paid into the "system" over the years has now "vanished",simply because you cannot meet the criteria set down by the Government?

What a bloody mess indeed! Some obvious double standards occurring in Syria. This yesterday from a White House spokesperson. "We call again on the Syrian regime to uphold it's commitments under the Kofi Annan plan". I note they are not calling on the Islamic terrorist insurgents to uphold their commitments under the Annan plan. America is being totally unrealistic and asking the impossible of the Assad regime, to stand back and allow armed gangs of foreign backed Islamic insurgents to roam the streets of Syria unopposed, killing civilians, military and police with impunity. It asks this knowing full well that no leader,whether dictatorial or democratic would allow these gangs to continue unchallenged. No matter how much one sided spin White House spokespersons try to put on it, they will never alter this obvious fact.

Does the UN also come under your broad brush of pro Russian rhetoric or just the US?

I do not think its quite that simple , if only it was

http://www.escapefromamerica.com/2009/11/the-impact-of-illegal-immigration-on-the-us/ I have been doing quite a bit of research on the subject and have come to the conclusion that Immigration in the US illegal or other wise is a highly contentious subject with many having strong views on the matter ,to be fair some may be misplaced ,but the fact remains its a volatile situation as the link above amply displays ,the thread is yet young and I've no doubt other Americans will be voicing their opinions over the coming days.

Well done President Obama (in this important election year)! As with his bold and risky leadership on the gay marriage issue, Obama once again leads to do the right thing for this specific class of valued young immigrants. Obama's got his mojo back, that's for sure. What's next? Coming out for decriminalization of marijuana? There's nothing wrong with mixing good policy with good politics. Yes, politically this immigration move is a huge WINNER.

Well JT it would appear by reading the link and the remarks underneath it is anything but a winner, and we do not have long to wait now do wehttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2895655/posts

http://www.liberal.o...nder-Labor.aspx It would appear by this link that Under Howards Govt the problem was handled legally and correctly ,so unlike the sheer shambles we have now under this administration , Shadow Minister for justice,customs and border protection Micheal Keenan appears to suggest that most are Illegals ( and I quote "Illegal boat arrivals") ,what the bloody hell would he know about the subject when we have so many "experts " on Thai Visa

Looks like we have another cheer leader for Clash of Civilizations (or maybe a recycled old one)!

I betcha would jump at the chance of doing an I.P check if you were able. The truth will set you free, after the initial pain it causes - ever felt like the little Dutch boy sticking his finger in the hole in the dyke? You are seeing people waking up to the truth, which must indeed be terrifying to peddlers of the official narrative.

P.S Make of the following what you will, but if true the U.S are already intending to ship arms to the rebels and Saudi Arabia and Qatar have picked up the tab.

http://www.debka.com...ut-whenâ€

As the violence in Syria continued to go from bad to worse in scope and intensity, US official sources had this to say Saturday, June 16, about planned US military operations in the war-torn country:

“The intervention will happen. It is not a question of ‘if’ but ‘when.’”

A Syrian Free Army rebel delegation is now in Washington to talk about their requests for heavy weapons from the Obama administration. In their meetings with US Ambassador to Syria Robert Ford and the State Department’s expert on Syria Fred Hof, the rebel leaders handed in two lists for approval: types of heavy weapons capable of challenging Bashar Assad’s armed forces and selected targets of attack to destabilize his regime.

Yes, this was also reported in The Guardian Newspaper yesterday. Seems like an inspired idea! Hand over a load of SAMs, heavy weaponry etc to a bunch of assorted Islamic Terrorists, Al Qaida, Muslim Brotherhood etc, who are already running amok. Today Russia have responded to this by announcing that they will send missile defence systems to Syria to counteract this. Meanwhile Mrs Clinton caught out being economical with the truth again.

http://www.guardian....a-syrian-regime

"The State Department have admitted that details were omitted from Clinton's speech".

Interesting link Thanks, I read it twice to "digest it" , I await the coming few weeks for further"developments" ,as stated previously "what a bloody mess"!

http://boxrec.com/li...d=352&cat=boxer

This thug assaults his partner in front of their young children and expects everyone to feel sorry for him because he has to face up to the consequences of his actions. He got a slap on the wrist sentence because he is rich and still whines about it. Clearly he has taken too many blows to the head in the ring. Man's a moron.

The Guy is a brilliant boxer and hardly takes any blows to his head as his outstanding boxing record shows and IMHO the best defensive boxer in the world today ,however having said all that the guy in his private life is a natural born arshole ,credit given were credit is due ,inside and outside the ring .http://boxrec.com/li...d=352&cat=boxer his record of fighters he beat reads like a who's who ,if only his record in his private life was half as good as he has had a few skirmishe's with the law before ,most likely cos his views on life are so well balanced owing to the fact IMHO he's got a chip on either shoulder .

I would like to see him get "tough" in mixed martial arts such as the UFC........He will take a few head hits there.

Horse's for Courses me old Son ,Horses for Courses , No doubt Usain Bolt would leave him for dead when Mayweather does his road work ,what does that prove?

*Deleted quote edited out*

As for multiculturalism - well there is a big island a bit to the south of you. It is called Australia. Multiculturalism has worked pretty well there over the past 60 years or so. But seeing you are a paid up member of the tin-foil hat brigade where your day isn't complete without a good conspiracy theory, I guess we will have to disagree on that one.

Rather funny and ironic that you are slavishly holding onto the legal wording of your visa. But given that legal wording is what you find acceptable to rely on - from governments no less - lets look at what the Australian governments legal obligations are in this case:

Convention relating to the Status of Refugees, as amended by its 1967 Protocol (the Refugee Convention), a refugee is a person who is outside their own country and is unable or unwilling to return due to a well-founded fear of being persecuted because of their:

• race
  
• religion
  
• nationality
  
• membership of a particular social group or
  
• political opinion.
  

Refugee Convention, Australia has agreed to ensure that people who meet the United Nations definition of refugee are not sent back to a country where their life or freedom would be threatened. This is known as the principle of non-refoulement.

Australia also has obligations not to return people who face a real risk of violation of certain human rights under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the Convention Against Torture and the Convention on the Rights of the Child.These obligations also apply to people who have not been found to be refugees.

In addition, while asylum seekers and refugees are in Australian territory (or otherwise subject to Australian law), the Australian Government has obligations under various international treaties to ensure that their human rights are respected and protected. These treaties include the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, the Convention Against Torture and the Convention on the Rights of the Child. These rights include the right not to be arbitrarily detained.

http://www.hreoc.gov...um_seekers.html

No doubt, you will have issues with this.

Any chance of producing a link which states multiculturalism has been a success over the last night 10 years in relation to Muslims which are predominately the % of "Asylum seekers" thanks in advance for complying with my request

It all boils down to identification of the refugee does it not. Hence the "non refoulement" principle is hard to determine initially is it not?

Do you think that off shore processing in say Malaysia could be more of a deterrent to destroying your ID?.. in terms of the length of stay within a detention centre?

That is the problem though isn't it? None of this is simple, and it certainly isn't as clear cut as the tin-foil hatters seem to think.

My family helped employ loads of VN and Cambodian refugee's through the 80's. None of them arrived with any papers. Refugees don't simply have a passport and are ready to go. That isn't to say they weren't genuine refugees.

In the case of the current lot, it is pretty common knowledge that given they don't have the correct papers from their government (I mean they ARE being persecuted by them) they do get false documents to make it into Indo or Malaysia. Indo and Malaysia's interest is simply to have these people pass through as quickly as possible. Though they can claim asylum in these countries, they have no access to work rights, so there is little wonder they don't want to hang around there.

If there was a government somewhere between Australia and the source of the refugees that did offer work rights, you'd want to assume that the more genuine of the refugees stopped there. But there isn't, so they won't. (Though if you again believe the tin-foil hatters, they are all one caliphite so they'd be happy as in those places given they are all the same...towel heads you know.....)

On the way to OZ, they are pretty much advised by the smugglers to destroy their documents. It isn't as if they are getting offical advice from an Dept of Immigration person are they?

I'd much prefer Australia bite the bullet and say 'look we are a sucessful country, we are a safe country and people are going to want to come here over nearly all other places'. And set up, in say Malaysia and Indo offshore processing, so you can actually establish a 'queue' which so many people get their panties wet over. It would stop people risking the boat ride, but would open it up to the conservative side of politics making scare campaigns of laying out a welcome mat. Also, you might find Indo and Malaysia have problems with setting up these camps on their territories...a fact convientely overlooked by most.

At the end of the day, I am pragmatic. I don't choose to go through life where my default position is to treat someone like a prick, especially if prima face, they are in need. Added to this pragmatism is that places like Australia are crying out for labour, so why not get these people out in the community as quickly as possible to pay their way?

If these guys truely are economic refugees, then logic would dictate that if the economy goes belly up, then the flow of boat people and refugees would stop. According to the doomsayers, that will happen next month when the mining tax and the carbon price kick in.

You don't really believe they flock to OZZ to work do you? ,in the UK its called DHSS in OZZ its known as "Centerlink"

The link you provide, Colin, is to an extremist website and is not a credible source of information.

As I have said before, people who arrive and are not accorded refugee status after a screening process, and who do not meet some other reason to be resettled, should be returned to their country of origin. This is best for everyone. It protects the rights of refugees and it is best for non-refugees NOT to spend years in detention centers away from their homes and families.

Yeah That,s fair comment Scott ,so if its not credible it should be quite easy to produce an independent link to discredit the Govt facts and figures that are displayed in the link then.

There is more misinformation on this thread than there is correct information.

1. As has been said, people arriving and requesting asylum is within the law. They are not illegal until they are determined not to be a refugee.

2. No one has mentioned about how the boat people impact in the legal migration system. At least those that are allowed to remain without being refugees. In many western countries they are not counted against the official number of allowed immigrants, so they are not queue jumpers or gatecrashers.

3. The pivotal question is why, if they are determined not to be refugees, are they allowed to remain. Repatriating screened-out asylum seekers is not a nice thing, but it happens all the time. At that point, they are not legal in the country. That is an internal situation which Australia needs to deal with.

May be you have not read in full the link in my post #46 ,if you have not I suggest you do so, having read it just what part of the legality or otherwise do you agree or not agree with ?

This conversation is going nowhere, Let's agree to disagree and move on unless anyone has a constructive response.

Yeah its going no where or is it? I respectfully requested that Samran answer my question eluding to the link I posted in my post #46 and to produce Independent evidence to counteract it, so far all I have seen is blatant insults as to my thoughts (and others) on "race" which in truth carry as much water as a car park puddle

Ah, the anti-immigrant immigrants running for cover of their 'non-immigrant' visa title to prove that they aren't immigrants. Quite amusing. All the more so, given that you'd desperately love to actually have an 'immigrant' visa, though for the purposes of this thread, that is an inconvenient truth.

Face it fella's you move countries, you are an immigrant. Stop splitting hairs.

As for critiquing websites? My lordy, where do you start with a website called 'hot heads' which is purely an opinion site which shows no data to back up its own argument. Shall I just hand out the tin-foil hats now? Or should I ask for you to justify the claim that this is all a muslim conspiracy for starters?

Why not Produce some data to prove him wrong ?

Argue with an anti-muslim zealot? So many better uses of my time. But thanks for asking anyway.

If they had the internet 30 years ago, he would have written the same diatribe - about Asians. What is the point?

But if you want to hang out with the tinfoil hat brigage, that is your perogative.

As usual some posters resort to ad-hominim attacks and source policing in lieu of any facts. Better to deny the existence of a problem and shoot the messenger then do something about it for fear of being oneself labelled a bigot, redneck, xenophobe, zealot etc etc. This is the squalid and disingenuous way the lib-left try to derail any discourse and champion an ideology which is anything but liberal.

The way I look at the situation is, the Left are being played like fiddles ,Just the same as Neville Chamberlain was just before WW 2 broke out and of course it took a hard right guy like Churchill to stop us being "enslaved"

Ah, the anti-immigrant immigrants running for cover of their 'non-immigrant' visa title to prove that they aren't immigrants. Quite amusing. All the more so, given that you'd desperately love to actually have an 'immigrant' visa, though for the purposes of this thread, that is an inconvenient truth.

Face it fella's you move countries, you are an immigrant. Stop splitting hairs.

As for critiquing websites? My lordy, where do you start with a website called 'hot heads' which is purely an opinion site which shows no data to back up its own argument. Shall I just hand out the tin-foil hats now? Or should I ask for you to justify the claim that this is all a muslim conspiracy for starters?

Why not Produce some data to prove him wrong ?

Argue with an anti-muslim zealot? So many better uses of my time. But thanks for asking anyway.

If they had the internet 30 years ago, he would have written the same diatribe - about Asians. What is the point?

But if you want to hang out with the tinfoil hat brigage, that is your perogative.

Of course this is the usual ploy of the hard left (I am hard right and proud of it too) call every one an Anti Muslim Bigot when they disagree with your point of view ,when you cannot produce evidence to prove them wrong ,I reality all it is is a "cop out" when some one has you on "check mate" so you resort to personal name calling by trying to discredit them with insults, Pitiful really

Information about the situation in the country of origin is also available. If the claim of persecution is reasonable, it can be checked out with the many NGO's, UN, and other agencies in the country. For example, if someone is a Christian or Bahai from Iran or Afghanistan, they may well have a claim.

Glad you mentioned Christian persecution , I wonder how many Afghan Christians are seeking "Asylum" in Australia after all they have a good case being that Afghanistan is #2 in the world (after North Korea) for the persecution of Christians ,personally at a rough guess I would say Zero ,for the simple reason the Boat trip with 50 or so Afghan Muslims would be quite risky not withstanding the leaking hulk they was travelling in .

The term I used was For example. By the way, I have met people from Afghanistan who were Christian. Let's expand it to say people who are non-Muslim. If you don't like that example, then let's try people who are gay, or believed to be gay.

Quite True Scott ,I could not think of a better example than a persecuted Afghan Christian, being that of the 50 Countrys Listed that actively practice Christian persecution Afghanistan is #2 after North Korea .

Ah, the anti-immigrant immigrants running for cover of their 'non-immigrant' visa title to prove that they aren't immigrants. Quite amusing. All the more so, given that you'd desperately love to actually have an 'immigrant' visa, though for the purposes of this thread, that is an inconvenient truth.

Face it fella's you move countries, you are an immigrant. Stop splitting hairs.

As for critiquing websites? My lordy, where do you start with a website called 'hot heads' which is purely an opinion site which shows no data to back up its own argument. Shall I just hand out the tin-foil hats now? Or should I ask for you to justify the claim that this is all a muslim conspiracy for starters?

Why not Produce some data to prove him wrong ?

There seems to be a lot of confusion about what an asylum seeker is and what a refugee is. A refugee is someone who is fleeing persecution, which has a higher degree standard than discrimination. The persecution must be for one of the reasons mentioned in the UN Conventions. The amount of money they have is not a part of the determination Countries that are signatories to the UN Conventions agree that those seeking asylum, will screen them. There are other protections afforded asylum seekers as well.

Once an asylum seeker is screened, if they are a refugee, then they are eligible for resettlement. If they are not a refugee, then they should be returned to their home country as soon as possible.

There is a good chance that many, if not most of these people, are economic migrants. Poverty is not grounds for refugee status. The longer they remain in detention, the greater the problems.

It is not too difficult to figure out the country of origin. There is extensive biographical information taken on asylum seekers. With whom did they arrive? Who do they list as their family members? Where do they say they come from?

Information about the situation in the country of origin is also available. If the claim of persecution is reasonable, it can be checked out with the many NGO's, UN, and other agencies in the country. For example, if someone is a Christian or Bahai from Iran or Afghanistan, they may well have a claim.

Glad you mentioned Christian persecution , I wonder how many Afghan Christians are seeking "Asylum" in Australia after all they have a good case being that Afghanistan is #2 in the world (after North Korea) for the persecution of Christians ,personally at a rough guess I would say Zero ,for the simple reason the Boat trip with 50 or so Afghan Muslims would be quite risky not withstanding the leaking hulk they was travelling in .

George, you overlooked one minor detail ,your ORIGINAL non Immigrant "O" Visa HAS to be applied for OUTSIDE of Thailand ,I traveled almost 900 KMS to LAOS to apply for mine and had to stay overnight before I received it ,having provided proof of my residence ,health certificate and Money in a Thai bank , the "law" has changed a little now as you do not have to produce a health certificate ,this only applys when you apply for a driving licence .

Samran I agree with every word in the link in my post #46 , Obviously by your previous posts I conclude you are at odds with it, so with respect could you please out line the parts, or all of it you disagree with and why ,and hope fully produce an Independent link to substantiate your views ,Thank you in advance for your reply .

I'm always amazed at how many members that usually post as hard core lefties when it comes to other countries, suddenly turn into Australian versions of George Wallace when it comes to immigrants to Australia.

Immigrants complaining about immigrants, oh the irony.

Does that include us with Aboriginal blood as well? Check the background of those commenting before you comment on them.

You live in Thailand? You are an immigrant.

Samran ,According to the 90 day report form I HAVE to fill in and have to make a n 180 km round trip to deliver it I am a Classed as An "ALIEN" ,for the pleasure of this I have to have Baht 800,000 in a Thai Bank for 3 months before applying for my NON IMMIGRANT "O" VISA of which I have to drive another 180km round trip and pay 1,900 for a 1 year extension to my visa stating retirement ,should I be late in applying for whatever reason I am "fined" 500 baht a day "overstay" I receive no benefits of any kind and at a conservative estimate have put at least 7 million baht into the Thai economy since arriving here in Nov 03 , One might say all the Chinese who live here are Immigrant stock too , needless to say without them this Country would sink beneath the waves in a very short space of time.