dinga

Thanks for the suggestions - an update.... I went to Rayong yesterday and visited a number of shops both in Laem Thong Mall as well as around the market/bus station. I managed to find only 2 shops that had Gold Bullion Bars - but both had very limited stocks/range and I was turned off by charges of 290 baht and 500 baht per Baht Weight in addition to the Baht Weight prices notified by the Gold Traders Association. I'll get my missus to call some shops in Pattaya to check on availability and prices - if there are similar limitations and additional charges looks like I'll be heading up to BKK.

So, what was the advice/reaction of the TRD, specifically in relation to Social Security/OAPs payments???? PS A couple of asides: * It would be very pertinent to know who "The Thai woman" has been talking to at the TRD - being female and young with seemingly a soft persona, I seriously doubt she has the status to get access to senior and knowledgeable TRD Officials. My guess is also that it is very likely contacts have been limited to telephone conversations with lower level officials. * In my view, it's very important to bear in mind that the Western Tradition is for lawyers & accountants to look for every loophole and to find 'defensible' positions. In contrast, the Thai environment is very different - read the words, that's what the law means (don't search beyond that for legislative intentions; different interpretations & stretched alternative meanings etcetc)

Having listened to some of their - and some others - speils, I personally have serious reservations about the accuracy of a number of their positions & conclusions in relation to Thai Tax provisions. Others should research the issues and reach their own conclusions - not simply accept as gospel the statements of (especially foreign) service providers. Section 42 of the Thailand Revenue Code deals with categories of assessable income that are exempt for the purposes of income tax calculation, and would be a good place to start. Tax Lawyers, Accountants and others stumping for business clearly have incentives to attract new paying clients - from lodgement of Tax Returns up to and possibly including to support of appeals against contrary TRD decisions. Frankly, I place much more credance on the opinions of TRD Officials on tax matters. Some others have directly discussed potential tax implications with senior TRD Legal Officials - has Carden done similar and has he reported the results?????

Agree - UKRULES interpretation is nonsense. The Thai Revenue Code does treat foreigners and Thai citizens equally ie. Social Security payments made under Thai law are consistently treated regardless of the status of the recipient. There is ZERO implied 'equivalence' of social security payments made by other countries.

I prefer Rayong, but Pattaya is doable. Appreciate those details Thanks

Seems not - I've approached around 6 shops and they only sell gold jewellery.

Does anyone know where to purchase Thai Gold Bars (96.5% Gold) in Rayong?

"power of american consumerism" - based on PRICE. Consumers will disappear when employment collapses. Smoot-Hawley 2.0 - original was universally a Great Success

For OAP recipients, you may find it interesting to compare the size of your payments with the entitlements for the Thai Social Security Old Age Allowance (OAA) - and reflect on who's hard done by: The amount payable under the OAA ranges from ฿600 to 1,000 per month, depending on the recipient’s age. Payments are not taxable, and the current rates are as follows: 60–69 years old: ฿600 per month 70–79 years old: ฿700 per month 80 to 89 years old: ฿800 per month 90 years old+: ฿1,000 per month

See comments/response in CAPS below: The Thai revenue code has no specific provisions relating to foreign income. CORRECT - APPLIES TO ALL TAX PAYERS/RESIDENTS REGARDLESS (NO DISCRIMINATION) However most DTA's, including the Australia / Thailand one, have what's known as a non discrimination clause. That means Thai and foreigners are treated the same for tax collection. Therefore, the income equivalents, in terms of social security are exempt for Thais; and remitted social security is exempt for foreigners. DISAGREE - BEFORE RESORTING TO THE DTA, THE PROVISIONS OF THE THAI TAX LAW MUST BE FIRST CONSIDERED. IN RELATION TO THE LATTER, SEEMS THERE ARE ONLY TWO POSSIBLE PROVISIONS UNDER SECTION 42 THAT EXEMPT ASSESSIBLE INCOME FROM TAX: (12) Special pension, special gratuity, inherited pension or inherited gratuity. (25) Compensatory benefit received by the taxpayer from the social security fund under the law governing social security. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT IT'S GENERALLY ACCEPTED THAT AUSTRALIAN SOCIAL SECURITY PAYMENTS - ESPECIALLY THE OAP - DO NOT FALL WITHIN (12). IN MY VIEW, (25) CLEARLY DOES NOT APPLY TO AUSTRALIAN S/S PAYMENTS AS (A) OAPs ARE NOT 'COMPENSATORY BENEFITS'; (B) THEY ARE NOT PAID FROM 'THE SOCIAL SECURITY FUND UNDER THE LAW GOVERNING SOCIAL SECURITY' IN THAILAND, OR INDEED AUSTRALIA [THERE IS NO SUCH FUND]. WITHOUT GETTING TOO FAR INTO THE WEEDS, ON A CURSORY READ I COULD ONLY SEE ONE REFERENCE IN THE THAI SOCIAL SECURITY ACT THAT MENTIONS 'COMPENSATION' PAYMENTS - AND THIS ONLY APPLIES TO COMPENSATION FOR LOSS OF EARNINGS. CLEARLY AUSTRALIAN OAP PAYMENTS ARE ASSESSIBLE INCOME, SO THE DTA DOESN'T COME INTO PLAY UNTIL IT'S DETERMINED THAT REMITTED AUSTRALIAN OAP PAYMENTS ARE NOT EXEMPT FROM THAI TAX. MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT THE DTA CLEARLY PROVIDES THAILAND HAS THE RIGHT TO TAX OAP REMITTENCES. IN THE EVENT BOTH COUNTRIES HAVE TAX RIGHTS ON INCOME, DTA'S PROVIDE PROTECTION FROM DOUBLE TAXATION BY ENSURING CREDITS ARE AVAILABLE WITH THE RESULT THAT ONLY THE HIGHEST TAX AMOUNT IS PAYABLE - AND NO MORE The TRD offices, based on multiple real world reports, are simply considering the Australian Old Age pension social security ( which it is) , therefore exempt for tax in Thailand. I DON'T HAVE A DOG IN THIS FIGHT, BUT WHILE BENDING TAX PROVISIONS TO PROVIDE SOME SORT OF "DEFENSIBLE" POSITION MAY BE A STRATEGY, I FEAR IT IS BUILT ON QUICKSAND. AGAIN, MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT A BUNCH OF TAX ADVISORS HAVE REACHED THE SAME CONCLUSIONS AS ME. ALSO, I WOULD TAKE LITTLE CONFIDENCE FROM HOW DIFFERENT TRD OFFICES CURRENTLY INTERPRETE THE TAX LAWS - NO COMFORT AS I SEE THE REAL POSSIBILITY THAT A CLARIFYING EDICT WITH UNIVERSAL APPLICATION COULD BE ISSUED IN A HEARTBEAT, WITH NO PROTECTION FOR THE PAST. Nothing absurd about it. Makes sense. NOT TO ME. BUT I WISH EVERYONE WELL IN THESE SOMEWHAT CONFUSING TIMES

The following is courtesy of well known and credentialed lawyer Sebastien H. Brousseau • 1st • 1stFounder and CEO | Legal Services ProviderFounder and CEO | Legal Services Provider1d • 1 day ago In the recent Supreme Court Case No. 4655/2566, the court invalidated ‘automatic’ 30-year lease renewals, emphasizing that any pre-agreed automatic renewal of a lease beyond the statutory 30-year limit is unenforceable under Thai law. Understanding the implications of automatic renewal of a lease is crucial for lessors and lessees alike. Full article at this link: https://thailawonline.com/automatic-renewal-of-a-lease-in-thailand/

Thanks - but the Thai Revenue Code is a Thai Law. You'd have to be a cretin to selectively interprete that Paragraph (and all the others In Section 42) as relating to any happenings that occur outside of THAILAND. No wonder TigerandDog has slunk off into the ether. For mine, is so absurd that it's not worth even considering getting a legal opinion from a credible Thai law firm.

TigerandDog I'm waiting anxiously..... Well, what are the provisions of the Revenue Code that you claim "clearly stated that social security payments are NOT assessible income".??????? If you are deluded, just admit it and your incorrect statement will not mislead anyone else.

Please provide the Revenue Code provision (the specific Clause) that "clearly stated that social security payments are NOT assessible income"

I have no interest in an LTR Visa, so at the risk of being accused of scaremongering, I call BS on the claim that dissenting tax advisory companies have not clarified this issue with the TRD. Suggest you look at the material on the Expat Tax Thailand website - here's an extract: Can you please confirm that Wealthy Pensioner LTR Visa holders are exempt from tax on foreign source income remitted to Thailand Yes the Wealthy Pensioner LTR is exempt from foreign sourced income if remitted the following tax year. Category: Visa and Tax Declarations Tags: LTR Visa, Pension, Tax Exemption Amongst that website material is a recording of an interview ETT had with a Senior Lawyer from the TRD Legal Section. My recollection is that the above extract is 100% consistent with the verbal advice from that Lawyer. I just suggest LTR Holders clarify the tax position to their own level of satisfaction.

More, that you need to turn 65 DURING the Tax Year (ie. during 2024 - not in the 1st 3 mths of 2025)

We've all overdosed on your asinine comments - pray that you go away and find something useful to do. While I have successfully ignored most of them, I can't ignore the "No extra use of infrastructure...." So who do you think pays for all of the infrastructure & benefits that you expect and use in Thailand? A Freeloader who whinges about making any contribution - no matter how modest - is a powerful advocate for the opposite of what he/she espouses

Crossy - see answers IN CAPS below: Are you saying that you see 39V at the input side of the breaker when it is off (open) and that drops to 7V when you turn it on (closed)? YES That would suggest that your pump is now pulling too much current for the panel, or possibly you have a bad connection in your wiring panel to breaker 😞 WHAT IS THE 'WIRING PANEL'???? IS THIS AT THE SOLAR PANEL???? I HAVE NEEDED TO ATTEND - A COUPLE OF TIMES NOW - TO THE MC4 CONNECTORS I'VE PLUGGED INTO THE PANEL CONNECTORS. ....[THINK LAST TIME THERE WAS VERY LOW VOLTAGE AT THE PANEL-SIDE OF THE BREAKER - NOT SO THIS TIME] COULD BAD CONNECTIONS BE THE CAUSE ???? Do you have a couple of car/bike batteries you can connect to get 24V and feed the pump directly? GUESS I CAN TRY AND GET A COUPLE - HOW ARE THE BATTERIES CONNECTED - +VE TO +VE; -VE TO -VE???

UPDATE - Help/Advice still Needed! 1. The problem (non-working) pump was retrieved and sent for check by the supplier. Supplier reports the pump is in perfect working order - and attached a video clip to show that. Also confirmed the waterproof seal is intact but there was mixed/no advice about the maximum submerged depth [I had located it at about 11.5 metres] 2. In the meantime, I bought another sub pump [3SYDC 24V / S2.0 - 40 : DC 24V, 300W] which I connected to the existing 340W panel, and which is positioned at a maximum depth of 7 metres in the Wet Season (more like 5 metres now). The pump worked faultlessly for 2 weeks until it stopped pumping 2 days ago. My trusty multi-meter records 39.7 Volts at the input side of the breaker when closed - but this drops to 7Volts when the breaker is opened. Seems to be the problem as before.... Any ideas, guys????

ALL YOU HAND-WRINGING CHICKEN LITTLES...... take a look at today BP where the TRD talks about reducing Income Tax collections globally providing the impetus for countries to move towards comprehensive tax reforms - in the Thai context = including progressively raising the 7% VAT and imposing Wealth Taxes on Thai's who previously had escaped the RTD net by stashing wealth offshore. The latter is the context for the push for disclosure of WW income. Farangs may (eventually) suffer collateral damage but we ain't the targets....

What an extraordinary video [and admission] by Hart. The OP's correct summation that 'After a fiery battle Benjamin of "Integrity Legal" seems to have finally been beaten down by the tax debate and came the final conclusion. If Thailand won't enforce laws regarding foreigners operating in restricted occupations why are they going to enforce these tax laws?' I'm flabbergasted that any advisor with years of experience in Thailand can provide professional advice without regard to/understanding of the local - including enforcement - environment. There's a very important takeaway here, folks.

That makes 2 of us that don't understand....... My understanding of ETT;s advice re. LTR visa holders: 1. If income was earnt overseas in (say) 2023 but remitted to Thailand during 2024 - No Tax Payable on such remittances 2. If income was earnt overseas in (say) 2024 and was remitted to Thailand during 2024, such income is subject to Thai Tax and likely needs to be reported in the Tax Return to be lodged by 31 March 2025.

LTR VISA - may not be the panacea folks seem to be assuming. One takeaway from yesterday's ExpatTaxThailand Webinar was that the old Rules (pre-2024) on remittances continue to apply to LTR Visas ie. in order to be Non-Taxable, remittances must be made in any year other than in the year the income was earnt. It will be Taxable if remitted in the same year it was earnt. Must admit that I have not been closely following LTR implications so my takeaway may not be entirely accurate. But it seems to me that there may be widespread misunderstanding based on ETT's clear advice yesterday.

I hate the moron, but to be fair he DID NOT say he will deport ALL Immigrants. He said he would deport all ILLEGAL Immigrants. Truth Matters

Just to recap.......the Sub Pump is 250W, 24V and 8A. The Solar Panel is 340W, 24V, Imp 8.84A Attached is a page from the Pump manual which recommends a single 275W Panel for this Pump. Based on this recommendation, I shouldn't need a second Panel. Could it be that I need to buy a 275W Panel to replace the current (sic) 340W Panel????