Galong

Holy Cow! I guess they should put signs up outside of tattoo parlors warning people that if they want to put some artwork on their bodies, SOME people are going to automatically think that they will be seen as idiots, sociopaths, evil-doers and criminals hel_l bent on causing problems for the honest hard-working folks here at Thai Visa. Geez, this is getting a bit ridiculous even for this forum.

SARS could have turned into a massive catastrophe had conditions been slightly different. Read the EU, WHO and CDC analyses of the events. The collective view is that the world had a horseshoe up it's butt.

But it didn't did it. It was contained. I have no faith in the opinion of the WHO. They claimed more people would die from disease after the tsunami and that did a LOT of damage to the tourism industry here. It was totally uncalled for. We took care of our people. The combination of the military, the locals, expats and everyone else made sure that everyone had plenty of food, bottled water and a place to stay. I don't trust WHO.

Solid evidence that it's mutating? Like hello? Viruses mutate 24/7. All living organisms mutate. What happens is that it's a small piece at a time. Just a question of which piece. As for eating chicken, if it's cooked, I doubt that you'll become infected from the virus. Maybe salmonella, but not bird flu

24/7? I doubt that. But even if they do, do they mutate to a form that makes them more dangerous? Maybe they do, but mutating to a form that makes them transferable to humans is another story. Until solid evidence exists that it is possible for this virus to move from birds to humans, I'm not worried. It's not that I trust governments or the "authorities", far from it. But I think that the media tries to make things sound much worse than they actually are. They cry wolf all the time.

In the past I thought the drivers fled the scene to avoid legal action, but it just might be to avoid getting a beating by the survivors... I know I would be rather pissed off if a crazy driver caused me bodily harm. I can run fairly fast, so he better get a good jump.

Perfect! Expose these dirty cops and hopefully impact the tourism to this region. Loss of face seems to be more powerful than honesty and justice unfortunately.

If tourist figures fall the only people who'll suffer are the guesthouse and nightclub owners who have no influence over the behaviour of the police and who seem to get a fair amount of stick from the BiB themselves.

True, but perhaps the locals won't be so interested in supporting the police's story if this happens again. Perhaps the locals will confront the cops for what they did and how they handled this murder.

I personally don't care if it affects nightclubs. Thailand shouldn't be about drinking in my opinion. So much of the trouble that arises between tourists, expats and locals is the result of drinking. The relationships we form should be about culture, nature and friendships... leaving alcohol out of it would only be a positive move... in my opinion.

...it will make the SARS epidemic seem like a tryst with chickenpox . A travel embargo even for a few weeks would wipe out Thailand's tourist industry. Deprived of the FX that pays for oil, heavy machinery and high tech material, Thailand would fall into an economic depression that would provoke unrest etc. It's not just Thailand, but the rest of the world too. Imagine if the EU or USA were obliged to ban travel between regions, not just countries. Well, that's one of the things that will be done along with the rationing of medical care and medicine when an epidemic occurs.

SARS epidemic? Don't more people die daily from Malaria than the total number of people who died from SARS? I think SARS was greatly over-stated/over-promoted by the media. So some white folks died (I'm white too) so it made the headlines... It wasn't the pandemic that they tried to tell us it was going to be. Crying Wolf seems to be the norm these days.

Yes, this could do a lot of damage but until there is some solid evidence that it's mutating, I see no reason to worry and I CERTAINLY see no reason to stop traveling.

I gotta go eat some chicken now.

Perfect! Expose these dirty cops and hopefully impact the tourism to this region. Loss of face seems to be more powerful than honesty and justice unfortunately.

And though Thailand has its own subsection on Wikipedia's page on xenophobia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia , so do 4 other countries, so it's not like they're uniquely xenophobic.

Thanks for that link... very interesting. I hope the Thais realize how bad they look to many citizens from many other countries. I seriously doubt that they care however... you know, Thailand being the center of the universe and all.

I like the sentence, "Thai will give his or her last drop of blood to prevent a single inch of the country ever being ruled by an invader" Um, Thailand was colonized from the inside by the Chinese. I don't remember any blood being spent preventing that from happening.

There seems to me to be a very common theme in most of the violence we read about... alcohol! It is the root of many evils and should be illegal.

What strange church you belong too?

I don't belong to any church. I'm a free thinker thank you. But, it's hard to deny that alcohol is so dangerous and responsible for so much of the violence.

This is a subject of the utmost seriousness. Should this genie get out of the bottle and become truly human to human, we are talking about something that would make nuclear war look like childs play.

The sky is falling, the sky is falling... yeah, yeah, yeah... BORING.

I don't trust/believe anything that the media or WHO says. They've been saying this global pandemic is going to kill us all for how many years now? The real questions are (1.) How the World Health Organization stands to benefit from creating more hysteria and (2) How are they funded and (3) how much more money will they get if they can scare everyone.

This is like that stupid colored threat level that the rednecks use to keep people worried about terrorism.

There seems to me to be a very common theme in most of the violence we read about... alcohol! It is the root of many evils and should be illegal.

Isn't the World Health Organization the same moron who claimed that as many people or more would die from disease after the tsunami than died from it??? Maybe they mistook Thailand for New Orleans.

They are NOT authorities on health. They are blood-sucking media leeches and I don't believe a thing that they say. they've cried 'wolf' too many times to be trusted.

Furthermore, I'll bet 216 people died from Malaria today... what about doing something about that WHO? Oh, that's right, it's poor blacks in Africa and poor Asians tucked away out of sight... they don't count I reckon.

WHO is about as trustworthy at Talk-sin.

I say the "REAL THAI AUTHORITY's should conduct a few random drug tests around town. They just might find out a few more contributing facts to this tragety.

If you're referring to wacky tobaccy... Alcohol is obviously one of the most dangerous drugs on the planet! How many families have been torn apart by alcoholism? How many drunk drivers have killed completely innocent people? Have you ever heard of a stoner beating up his/her family or driving like a lunatic? No, because pot doesn't affect the brain in the same way as alcohol... from what I've been told and read.

From the Liberty Post website:

In purely objective terms, beverage alcohol is a recreational hard drug: mind-numbing, easy to misuse and intimately connected with aggression, carelessness, and despair. When a drugged individual is involved in a violent crime or an accident, the drug is most often alcohol. In America, alcohol is responsible for 65 percent of murders, 55 percent of college rapes (that's 70,000 per year), 39 percent of traffic fatalities, 33 percent of all trauma injuries, 33 percent of drownings and other accidental deaths, and 25 percent of teen suicides. About 150,000 Americans die from chronic alcohol-related illnesses each year, and another 3,000 from accidental overdoses.

Random drug tests would only serve to fill the pockets of the authorities, it wouldn't curb crime if they're checking for pot. Other, harder drugs, are a different story. Random testing for alcohol would be much better in my opinion.

If you really want to stop this sort of violence, Ban Alcohol!!!

Ciao

Mayor charged after 'drunken fight with police'

"It shows I never touched anyone."

*except for the 20 minutes of video that captured a great deal of intimate "touchin" with the accompanying "well-known model." * j/k

"The footage records everything from start to finish. It proves what I say," he said.

Prarob claimed Chonsawas said: "Who are you? And you don't know who my father is?"

*superbly classic line*

He denied being drunk. He said he wore short trousers and casual attire at the time, something he did not do when going out for a drink. *For that activity, he said he typically dons a Spider-Man costume underneath a Hello Kitty dress.* j/k

When asked about the three women in his car, Chonsawas said: "What models? I am puzzled. They are not models, just friends."

*uhhmm... yeah, ok... they are "just friends" *

- The Nation

=======================================

OMG John! Thanks for your editorial bits... it really made this story a lot more interesting.

*why he doesn't stay there? third person still unharmed. and could harm him. he doesn't know if he had knock off the others finally nor if they still could harm him. but still bullets in his gun he dosn't aim for a finishing shot - no he goes away and seeks backup by police

Did he run away and go straight to the police? Or is this an assumption that you consider to be a 'fact'? What was the time difference between the shooting and Uthai turning himself in?

"doesn't aim for a finishing shot"? Are you serious? A bullet in the chest IS a finishing shot! He seemed to have been shooting to kill. It's merely luck that the woman didn't die.

I don't see how most of your facts are actually credible.

Good thing you're not going to be on the jury.

Whoa, long thread, can't be bothered to read it all ... yada, yada, yada

OK, this will hopefully bring you up to speed:

1. Something happened in Pai with a cop and two tourists.

2. Tempers flared

3. Nasty posts deleted by moderators

4. Assumptions made

5. Tempers flared

6. Acceptance that some of us are wrong

7. More assumptions made

8. Agreement on some points

9. Friendships made... sort of

10. Assumptions made, but more politely presented

Peace

After all the speculation on the 'details' the following are the basic facts.

An armed cop shot 2 unarmed people. The 2nd person shot was a female. The cop ran away.

The 'official' version has more holes in it than the people shot.

Pathetic little man, I hope he gets his punishment but I doubt anything will happen in the long run.

Hammer > Nail > Head Unfortunately, I think your last sentence is correct too. I sure would like to be wrong.

Furthermore, if he had his pistol under his motorbike seat, I see that as a bit irresponsible. A crowbar and vwalla! A bad guy has got a gun! What a minute, a bad guy had the gun in the first place.

Am I correct in assuming that cops in the US and probably elsewhere are on the job 24/7 too?

Thus Uthai being called in to break up a domestic quarrel would not have been unusual, though of course his use of excessive force is an entirely different story.

I have heard from a reliable local source that Thai police are not permitted to fire more than one shot in self defence. Obviously, unless Uthai's claims that the shots were accidental (which seems incredible) is true, he is clearly guilty of excessive force.

So what would the charge be for using excessive force resulting in the death of two people? Manslaughter? The possibility of Uthai "accidentally" putting three lethal shots in the guy and one lethal shot in the woman is pretty darn far-fetched in my opinion. Certainly this can't honestly be interpreted as self defense.

There is a very good reason that the Thai police are not usually punished for there indiscretions. The reason is not justified and I'm not going along with it so please don't kill the messenger (me).

The Thai police represent some 250,000 poorly trained, somewhat powerful individuals who see themselves as the "thin brown line" that holds back evil doers from committing atrocities against the weak and hi-so classes. Most at the lower level have little formal education in the western sense and they do exactly as they are told by their superiors. The police are not only quasi-military they are part of the feudal system here that keep the rank and file cops forever at that lower level and the higher ranks are filled through a patronage system. The system in place is quite lucrative as we all suspect and NO ONE in the upper levels of the police administration is going to rock the boat nor would one be allowed to.

Now if you look at the police as a "closed system" that cannot be threatened from within or without for fear of upsetting the balance of things you begin to understand why they protect their own at all costs. Very powerful people have ownership in this system and if it becomes threatened, history will show they close ranks and protect what is theirs. If the lower ranking officers are not protected from culpability or at the very least protected from jail and continue to receive a salary to feed the family, the system will breakdown. The police commanders must have the unwaivering support of the rank and file to sustain the cash flow and maintain the status quo. It is quite easy for the police to ride out the media storm by making moves we have all seen before. A quick arrest and the obligatory reassignment to an "inactive post". Additional action will be seen by the rank and file as a weakness in the command staff and the system will be in jeopardy. In their mind it is really a case of "us (police) versus them (anyone else).

I believe that you are spot-on in this analogy... unfortunately. In light of what you're saying here, I don't expect any downside for the brave Sir Uthai.

In this case, we have the astounding physical evidence of overwhelming, deadly force by an off-duty cop used on two unarmed, albeit, unruly members of the public.

We can't prove if he Uthai was drunk because he left; we only have second-hand accounts.

We can't prove if Reisig and Del Pinto hit the cop first, because this is also a second-hand account, and both first-hand accounts vary.

If they did hit or push the cop, does this warrant deadly force -- twice? This alleged offense anywhere else should have gotten them arrested and deported, but not killed. Did Reisig's story shift - yes; Did the cop's story shift - yes; Do they both have bad character references - yes;

Do cops have the right to execute unruly members of the public, at their discretion?

If they are the police, it is part of their job to know how to use acceptable force in a public nuisance situation. The public also has a right not to be attended to by "alleged" drunk, off-duty police officers with no understanding of professionalism and acceptable force. They also have a right to a fair and impartial investigation.

Neither professionalism nor impartiality are traits commonly associated with the Thai police, or as it seems, many expats.

Leaving the scene of the crime speaks volumes! Besides being extremely unprofessional, it eliminated the possibility of him being proven to be drunk. That alone is enough evidence to me to put his actions in question.

Is Uthai so weak that he couldn't defend himself against a woman without resorting to deadly force with a firearm? Why didn't he use muay Thai? Do cops carry mace? They should. Do they carry a billy club (stick)? They should. Did he have handcuffs with him? Couldn't he have yelled for help from the locals?

Why didn't he call for back-up if he wasn't sure if he could deal with a single female 'criminal'? What a pathetic excuse for a man. There is absolutely no excuse for using deadly force against a woman. Maybe she's a bodybuilder too in his eyes.

As the cops are doing the investigation and forensics, I fully expect this macho cop to get off scott free.

The victim.

Um, so where's the bodybuilder? Th e guy in this photo doesn't look like one.

"...adding that the Siam Park bought it from a company in Canada."

Expect it to be Canada's fault.

I think you are wrong on this occasion and you might be in for a surprise in the coming months. Don't expect everywhere to comply with the law, but I think the majority of venues will.

I'd love to be wrong on this one. I hope you're right.

However, I think that bribe money will keep some places smoking...

Where's a yawn smiley face thingy when you need one.

This is just another law that won't be enforced or that will be enforced from time to time in certain areas.

Totally disagree.

'Thai Culture', 'Thai Mindset' and 'Thai Way of Thinking' are merely excuses for the Thais laziness, refusal to act in an adult manner, their inability to take responsibility for their actions and many of their other failings as a society, culturally and as a country.

It is time they stopped shirking and started to grow up as a nation and act as responsible individuals.

Finally, someone with a handle on the reality of the situation.