Galong

If the PAD does - indeed - hold a demonstration - protest - in the ensuing months - expect this vicious - Thaksin - led - proxy government to come down hard on it - and anyone attending.

Before the police had a hands-off approach to the demonstrations. Now it's a totally different ball game!

Dark times lay ahead. Unfortunately.

Oh, but you're forgetting that Samak claims to have never been involved in instigating violence against protesters. He certainly wouldn't cause violence in Thailand (again). Don't you believe him?

I don't see what/how/why the government wants to block access to this website. Monks are ordained by their own choice. If they want to break their precepts, then that is a matter for each to be dealt with on an individual basis. What's the point of voluntary ordaining if you're going to break your precepts??

Monks are the same as everyone else in society some good, some bad. Wearing saffron robes does not suddenly make you a good person.

Simon

Well-said Simon... I was on a mountain bike ride last week and my buddies and I went over to a small shop after the ride to have a beer. Three monks walked in while we were sitting there and they all bought cigarettes. I found that to be rather odd for monks, but like you say, they are in the monkhood of their own choise and there are worse things to do than smoking cigarettes. Banning websites seems a step in the wrong direction.

If the gov is so interested in the actions of monks, they should start working on instilling a sense of right and wrong in Thai society from birth. Banning is a knee-jerk reaction and ineffective in reality. This is something I would expect in Burma... same, same

Anyone, absolutely anyone can contribute to Wikipedia. I've tried several times to tell the facts about the Tiger Temple and my additions seem to disappear shortly after I put them up. I'm not rude in my additions, just want to question the motives and treatment of the tigers. Someone obviously feels otherwise about the place.

I don't doubt for one moment that Samak was responsible for the killing of many student protestors... in fact, I consider him to be very evil and potentially very dangerous, but the fact remains, Wikipedia is a weak source of objective information.

Lonely Planet and the Lonely Planet Zombies who consider this silly book to be the Bible of travel are responsible for ruining many a formerly fine place. If it's in the Lonely Planet, it's on the way to being ruined by mass tourism, backpackers and people who don't have the talent to search for interesting places on their own. It's a lazy way to travel.

The prove are there, during Thaksin period, drugs were almost gone from Thailand, everyone knows about it.

Despite the damage that was caused, Thailand were almost drug free!

"Thailand was almost drug free" :D Yep, and Britany Spears is almost a good parent.

My guess is that you didn't lose any relative or friends. Drugs were available then and they'll be available after the next killing spree.

I think he should have been allowed to serve out his last term of office. as it were, the coup and PAD have yet to prove any guilt on the part of thaksin.

NONE! only heresay. and a lot of jealousy.

GO THAKSIN!

:D

Dang, don't you read the news? He concealed money, used his position in order for his family to buy land at under market value, sold a Thai telecommunication company to a foreign country, etc, etc, etc. I guess some folks just ain't gonna accept the facts.

By the way, hasn't Thaksin got a doctorate?

Well, have you heard him speak in English? So, he bought a doctorate, big deal.

I have had taxi drivers in Singapore who had better English skills than this filthy rich criminal. He is about as useless as rubber lips on a woodpecker. He will likely cause more trouble for Thailand than any of us can imagine.

Hmm, let's see... Samak is probably lying about his involvement in the murder of students in Thailand's dark past and now he's apparently willing to go out on another killing spree. I'm certainly impressed. Ah, democracy is wonderful innit.

'Kind' elephant becomes victim of firepower

A village elder, who asked not to be named, said that despite the veterinarian's plea for them to stop, many people on motorcycles chased the beast, making it even angrier. He said he had then heard 10 gunshots as if the villagers were "trying out their fire power."

The Nation

Stupid Third World barbarians!!! I'm not surprised by this. A gang of Thais assaulting an elephant is in keeping with their macho image of multiple attackers on a single victim.

I guess elephants are supposed to change their very nature to get along with villagers who don't have the sense to stay out of the jungle when the breeding season begins.

Ah, the streets of Pattaya are now safer now that these hardened criminals are in the klink :D

Pot is NOT a dangerous drug and there is an ever-growing number of places where 'personal use' amounts are either completely overlooked or considered a misdemeanor. heck, even in my redneck state, Virginia, it's not a big deal...well, unless your employer is a fan of beer and myopic to the realities of this fairly harmless substance. I hope my attitude here won't put me on Samak's upcoming war on drugs...

Well done Galong. I grassed up a bloke hunting birds with a large rifle in Huay Nam Dang National Park in Chiang Mai. Dunno if the rangers took any notice though. National Parks are clearly non-hunting areas by law and not by mood or any other lame excuse.

Nice to hear mine is not a solo operation, brother.

There are elephants (since this is an elephant thread) that certainly don't look too happy either. Ah, dreams of letting them go dance in my head.

i guess they need to respect your authori-thai

:D I love it when folks get my avatar!

I love these animals and find them amazing and beautiful, but I treat them with the utmost respect and prefer to see them from a very safe distance--and that means I am looking through binoculars!

You're right Scott. These are amazing animals, but they are 'potentially' dangerous... unusually though that's only when it's breeding time. Under normal circumstances the elephants avoid humans as we have such a bad reputation for hurting them.

And, thanks geriatrickid for your kind words of encouragement. I'll continue to help where I can. I forgot to point out that there is a huge pile of empty Sang Som bottles under the mahout sala, so I don't think they're hurting for money. Sorry to sort of hijack this thread with my birdies stuff.

Well, the way elephants are generally treated in Thailand (see this National Geographic article) I hardly blame them for getting a little revenge from time to time... If these monks were really innocent, then it's sad though.

BTW, I turned in a couple of mahouts at Ton Pariwat Wildlife Sanctuary (Phang Nga Province) a couple days ago for killing birds in the sanctuary with slingshots. They looked rather pissed off at me when I showed up with a couple of rangers. I've seen mahouts with slingshots the past three time I went there. I scolded them previously, but I'm going to let the rangers take care of it from now on. I reckon I need to be careful the next time I go there.

Onward Christian soldiers! Mahouts are treated about as well as the elephants, well maybe not that well. They might be lucky to male 2,000 baat per month. Armed with the mighty, and highly accurate slingshot, I am sure they will have the chance to make a significant dent in the bird population as they strive to add an additional morsel of protein into their diet.

But yes, you would possibly need to be very careful the next time you visit. In fact, may I suggest that you not visit, for your own good of course.

So you see nothing wrong with killing protected wildlife in one of the last remaining parks that have the species available in this small area just because these guys want to kill them for food? Furthermore, how do you know they are killing them for food? Are you sure they're not killing them just for fun? What are you doing to help mahouts get out of this poor impoverished state? I suppose it's OK in your eyes for them to beat these noble beast too, eh?

I'm about as UN-Christian as they come, so you're really off base there.

I'll go back there as often as I wish thank you. I speak up for what's right and the park officials thanked me for informing them. I'll tell the rangers again if I see the mahouts breaking the Thai laws in this park.

But I'm sure you don't agree and these 'poor' mahouts should be able to kill animals in a wildlife sanctuary... because they're too poor to afford food... what a load. There aren't any starving mahouts in this country. There are plenty of poor people, but they don't need to kill birds for food.

Well, the way elephants are generally treated in Thailand (see this National Geographic article) I hardly blame them for getting a little revenge from time to time... If these monks were really innocent, then it's sad though.

BTW, I turned in a couple of mahouts at Ton Pariwat Wildlife Sanctuary (Phang Nga Province) a couple days ago for killing birds in the sanctuary with slingshots. They looked rather pissed off at me when I showed up with a couple of rangers. I've seen mahouts with slingshots the past three time I went there. I scolded them previously, but I'm going to let the rangers take care of it from now on. I reckon I need to be careful the next time I go there.

I wonder if anyone ever did a survey of how many criminals live in Wash DC... doh!

Yup, was gonna get a nice bottle of Aussie red wine for this evening, but I reckon it's off to mom and pop's for some cheap beer...

well said it saddens me to read people slagging off Thailand all the time. If you dont like the country and its ways sod off as at the end of the day we are guests in the country

There's one of these every time!

Yep, and I'll bet most of them haven't been discriminated against strictly because of his/her race/nationality. It's easy to live in Thailand if your wallet is open. It truly is the land of smiles then.

BTW, this silly "we're guests in their country" bit has two sides. Blatant racism, legal injustices, government policies based on nationality... Is this how you would treat guests?

"a threat to the national security"...well, then rich Thais should stop bringing Burmese laborers across the border to do the hard work that Thais apparently don't want to do. Or, perhaps the Thai bosses don't want to pay a respectable salary and they can get away with insultingly low salaries for Burmese workers. This is just one small step away from slavery in my eyes. It's pathetic and should be exposed for the world to see.

The oddest aspect of this to me is that the most basic tenet of Buddhism is that there is no personal identity. There is no 'self'. This is the foundation of the Doctrine of the Anatman and it was the crucial element in Sidhartha's complete awakening.

If there is no personal identity, then there is no 'face' to be saved.

It should be against the law to threaten to do such a thing. Throw anyone who threatens to do this in jail right away.

BTW, I want compensation from all of the modified motorbikes that race down my street and disrupt the peace and quiet... or I'll start throwing nails on the street!

Someone just cut two more cables in the east its not totaly therir fault latey. If this keeps up they will be cutting faster then they can fix them. Some think its terroest but I bet it greenpeace. The cables upset the whales or something like that. totlal 7 cuts in the med.

Dude, you get my vote for the absolute silliest post on this thread... Greenpeace cutting cables?

Furthermore, we don't need to give terrorists more ideas on how they can adversely affect the world economy and commerce...

I love it, ALL THE TIME.....

farangland is no better....if I thought it is, I would be there........

Absolute nonsense! In "farangland" (a racist comment which I don't appreciate), there are courts and justice is the ultimate goal of these courts. Ever hear the phrase "innocent until proven guilty?" It actually works. A Thai who is in an accident with an American (for example) in America, has the same rights as the American. It is BLATANTLY obvious that the locals have more rights than tourists or expats in this country. They don't even try to hide it.

I think that one of the most important points is that they are killing endangered species, not that eating them has medicinal value. Are we (and the Chinese in particular) so greedy that we want to eat every last tiger on the planet? Taking top predators out of the food chain causes problems. How many times have humans interfered with Nature and things turned out better? Almost never.

Compare interfering with the natural balance of things with a rubic’s cube. You get one side looking good and think you’re on your way (or you’ve done a good job), but the others are all messed up.

Yeah, if only they could breed and slaughter (the automatic hydrolic hammers to the skull are especially impressive and no doubt humane if you tell yourself that enough times) them as efficiently as cows, pigs, or poultry. Then it'd be all hunky dory.

Hmm, let's see... cutting a cow's throat vs a 'hydraulic' hammer that is meant to kill immediately... let me think which is more humane.

FYI, this method is the result of complaints by animal welfare organizations about previous methods.

From the US Humane Slaughter Act:

7 U.S.C.A. § 1902. Humane methods

No method of slaughtering or handling in connection with slaughtering shall be deemed to comply with the public policy of the United States unless it is humane. Either of the following two methods of slaughtering and handling are hereby found to be humane:

(a) in the case of cattle, calves, horses, mules, sheep, swine, and other livestock, all animals are rendered insensible to pain by a single blow or gunshot or an electrical, chemical or other means that is rapid and effective, before being shackled, hoisted, thrown, cast, or cut; or

( by slaughtering in accordance with the ritual requirements of the Jewish faith or any other religious faith that prescribes a method of slaughter whereby the animal suffers loss of consciousness by anemia of the brain caused by the simultaneous and instantaneous severance of the carotid arteries with a sharp instrument and handling in connection with such slaughtering.

BTW, I don't eat red meat nor much chicken, so I don't support any of this.