TaoNow

This guy ("Cal") is so good I almost believe that he is employed by Thai Immigration. He seems to have special access to key sources.

Just curious, Steve, - did you bring an original copy of your marriage certificate? You won't need it now - but you would have, had you tried the 60 day visit spouse extension.

One other consideration when choosing an account as the basis for a retirement extension (money in the bank mode). I am referring to my experience at IMMO/CW. Some banks (e.g., SCB) won't let you update a FIXED deposit account by ATM -- you have to do it over the counter. Thus, on the day you are going for your extension, you need to wait for a branch to open before updating the FIXED account bank book -- since IMMO/CW wants to see the account updated on the day you visit. Not so if a regular savings account, or other banks which allow a machine update for fixed accounts.

A while back, I went further than Liquorice and asked a senior Immo office at CW why we ex-pats on retirement extensions needed to do the 90-day address report. The answer: "In case you have a problem..." Translation: In case a warrant for your arrest has popped up?

To me, the question is why would a non-Thai citizen want to live long-term in Thailand if (1) They do not have a work permit; (2) Do not have a Thai spouse; and/or (3) Are not retired and age over 50 with the requisite retirement income/money in the bank? Anyone?

True, all this above. But, you might remind OP and others that these affidavits (etc.) were initially discontinued because (apparently) ex-pats without the financials were using this letter as a way to avoid having at least 800K baht in a liquid Thai bank account in one's name, or a steady retirement income of at least 65K baht/month -- both a stated requirement for a retirement extension. It seems that newer members of the Forum are unaware of that.

For anyone with the age and financials, I can't imagine any reason to stick with the marriage extension if retirement is an option --- except for one: Ability to engage in legal, gainful employment in Thailand. If Crossy has another reason, I'd like to hear it.

Just an FYI about 90-day address reports at Immo/CW: I did mine last week, arriving early in order to get a forward place in line. With the new system being on the 3rd floor, I took a book to mark my place in line -- there were 20 others in front of me at 6:15 a.m. Then went for coffee and breakfast on Level 1, returning at about 7:30. The officers began issuing queue tickets at about 7:45. I stood in line waiting to get my queue ticket, but when the officer reached me, she beckoned to another officer to give me a "priority" pink plastic card, with the queue number 5. I was puzzled and asked why the special card: She said I looked like a senior (I am a spry 76 years old). I thought, OK, number 5 is better than number 20. Probably get out sooner... However, the special pink line is served only at a single counter (A06). Thus, if the officer at that counter arrives late (which mine did) or there is one person ahead of you with problems that need sorting out (which there was), then you might be better off using the regular queue number which has multiple desk processing applicants. I would have saved 15 minutes by NOT using the old-age pink card. Word to the wise...

In over 50 years of doing extensions at Immo/Bangkok (work, marriage, retirement) I have never observed any of the IMMO officers deal with agents or treat any applicants different from one another. What is more, I have never seen, or been approached by, an agent at Immo/Suan Plu or Immo/CW. Because of the regular rotation of Immo staff at the Bangkok Division 1 HQ, it would be very difficult to set up a graft system that would be handed off from officer to officer and overseen by a single or multiple corrupt Immo officers. In sum, as an expat, you are likely to get the most professional and legal service at Immo/CW of all the IOs around the country.

For newbies: Prior to 2019, Thai immigration would accept letters from an ex-pat's embassy stating that the ex-pat had retirement income >= 65,000 baht per month. These letters might be in the form of an affadavit (US Embassy) or StatDec (Australian Embassy), etc. At that time, the embassy letter would suffice to meet the Thai Immo requirement for an extension on the basis of retirement using the income method. That is, no Thai bank information need to be provided. Indeed, no documentation of that retirement income was required by Immo/Thai. However, in/around 2019, the US, UK, Australian (and later Danish) Embassies stopped issuing these letters of so-called retirement income verification. Apparently, in the years prior to 2019, an increasing number (?) of ex-pats (age 50+ years) who were caught for non-Immo crimes were found to not have the required 65,000 baht/month retirement income that would validate their retirement extension. And, thus, invalidate their permission to stay. To flush out any remaining 'dacoits,' Immo/Thailand issued an order to foreign embassies (and others who were issuing income affadavits) that they had to legally guarantee the income statement to be true. That was something that none of those 4 embassies (cited above) were willing or able to do. Hence, the discontinuation of the Embassy letter as documentation for a retirement extension. Nevertheless, there have been no reports (until now) that Immo/Thailand does not accept the embassy affadavit as proof of retirement income. So, if this has become current practice, that is problemmatic for those using the embassy-letter method who do not have the ability to transfer 65K baht/month into a Thai bank, or do not want to do so. Have I missed anything?

To add to Liquorice: If you cannot afford to place at least 800K baht into a fixed (or regular) savings account in a Thai bank and forget about it for a year, then you probably cannot afford to retire in Thailand. It's that simple.

I guess one interpretation of this run-around is this: If you cannot afford to keep 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account for 12 consecutive months then you probably cannot afford to live in Thailand on a year-to-year basis. The same is true of retirees (age 50+ years) who struggle to meet the IMMO financial requirements. It's not that hard folks: If you really want to live here indefinitely -- plan ahead.

@ ronnie50 It is my undersanding that ATMs are not able to be used for transactions for a fixed deposit account with SCB. Regular savings accounts -- yes. But, fixed deposit -- no, as I was informed several years ago by SCB bank staff. If anyone knows otherwise, please share experience. It is important since, if an ATM can't be used to update a SCB fixed deposit bank book, then you have to wait until a branch opens to do an over-the-counter transaction -- which IMMO/CW requires on the day of applying for an extension. And, then proceed to IMMO to process the extension.

As noted in a previous thread, if your funds are in a fixed deposit account, you cannot use the ATM machines to update the bank book. Only over-the-counter -- at least that is for SCB.

In order to avoid the shenanigans that some IMMO offices in some provinces engage in, I have made sure to always renew my extensions with IMMO/Bangkok -- despite living in other provinces for certain months of the year. In my experience, over the past 20 years of doing these extensions at IMMO/Bangkok, they have never asked for source of the 800K baht "bond" that we retirees are asked to post. Also, I have never been "hustled" to use an agent at IMMO/Bangkok. While some posters on this thread assert that an IO can ask for the source of the funds used to justify the retirement extension, that does not mean they have the legal right to. But, I also agree that it would be futile (and perhaps dangerous) to protest that request in a rogue IMMO office. In sum, if you want the fairest treatment at your annual retirement extension, find a way to do it at IMMO/CW.

Dr. Jack has pointed out (correctly of course) that there is no need to show where funds came from (for extensions using money-in-the-bank method). Another related point is that there is no need to show how you spend the 800K baht during the year, although there have been some reports in the distant past of rogue Immo officers (Prachinburi?) who have asked applicants about this. It is nonsense. The purpose of the 800k in a Thai bank is to show (1) Financial where with all; and (2) That you have a significant sum to tap into if there are outstanding hospital or legal fees. That's the same as the 65K-baht-a-month approach. They don't (shouldn't) care how you spend it; just that you are financially in good standing, and can cover unanticipated large expenses.

As I understand it, the 800K baht and 65K baht/month amounts are somewhat arbitrary amounts to show that the applicant has significant financial resources. Apparently, in the past, some ex-pats on retirement extensions left the country (not to return) with outstanding medical or legal (or other) financial obligations to Thai entities. So, Immo wants some sort of advance guarantee that the ex-pat seeking a retirement extension has the financial security to cover unexpectedly large claims. Thus, the amount is not to check that the ex-pat is spending 65K baht a month or more. In fact, in decades of doing these extensions (at Immo/CW) they have never checked or asked how much I spend per month, or from what account I cover daily/monthly expenses. Other Immo offices may do that, but it is nonsense. My final observation on this issue is this: If you have a problem holding 20-25,000 euro or USD in a Thai bank as a form of "bond" or guarantee for living in Thailand for 12 months at a time, then you cannot afford to retire here.

Outside of Immigration, I have found that the situations when staff ask to see my passport, it ls when they will ask a Thai for their national ID card. IOW, the request if for formal identification, not to check whether your passport is valid or whether you have overstayed your permit-to-stay date. I resist showing my passport since I do not want to have to carry it outside the house, unless necessary. Thus, at the post office when mailing EMS or registered mail, I just show my driver's license when they ask for my PP. Same when checking in for a domestic flight. Also, when at the bank, they sometimes ask to see my passport when I am withdrawing funds or requesting a new passbook for my savings accounts. But, I believe that they want the passport for signature verification -- not policing immigration status. (I realize it is different when opening a new bank account.) Thus, if you have a Thai DL, I encourage you to use that, even if you've brought your PP. That way, perhaps, we can reduce the expectation that we ex-pats will always have our PP on hand.

The issue of the one-year statement: I use SCB and it costs 200 baht to produce the statement. While it may not be required, each year the Immo/CW officer scrutinizes the annual statement, and uses a yellow highlighter pen for certain lines. She only glances at the passbook to verify beginning and end totals. If the bank account is simple (i.e., only used for retirement extension, with only a couple of withdrawals and deposits to update the balance) then it is easier for the Immo officer to scan the balances over the year to ensure that they didn't go under 800K. Since I have to go to the bank anyway for the account verification letter and bankbook update, the annual statement only adds a few minutes to the process and reduces any performance anxiety.

So many posters on this and other threads seem to think that they are the only ex-pats of interest to Thai Immigration. If you paid any attention to the local news, there are millions of ex-pats from Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia, China, and other Asian nationalities here at any given moment. In the case of this thread, Immigration is much more concerned about the exploitation/collusion of gangs with Thai citizens who may open "mule" accounts to launder funds in amounts that would dwarf the bank accounts of Farang ex-pats with measly 400K and 800K baht deposits. Stop thinking that you are God's gift to Thailand for being here, and recognize that you are just one small minnow in the sea of ex-pats living, working, and scamming here.

Relying on the quarterly up-dates in the (fixed acct) bank book could be risky, at least at Immo/CW. To be safe, as Dr. Jack recommends, you should update the bank book on the day you are applying for an extension (retirement) by depositing/withdrawing a nominal amount to generate an entry in the bank book. It is no trouble to do so, since you also have to go to the bank to get the account verification letter and annual bank statement. Since my fixed account is with SCB, I go to the nearest SCB branch on the morning when I process my annual extension to do the bank book update, letter confirming the account balance, and annual statement. It costs me 400 baht and has never failed.

Just responding to Caldera and a few others: We all know that there are certain Immo offices that bend the requirements in order to bill ex-pats for services that should be free (or not beyond the published fee). I once lived in a province that required a 300 baht payment for a Certificate of Residence, even though the service is supposedly free according to the Immo national website. I always do my extensions at Immo/CW, and they seem to have policies in place to prevent graft. For example, they rotate the front-line and supervisory officers throughout the year which means that it would be very difficult to set up a kick-back network to overlook the 800K baht requirement for retirement extensions. Plus, I have never observed any suspicious activity of some type of Thai agent jumping the queue and depositing passorts to be expedited and bypassing the required documentation, But, how would I know for sure? I don't. But, all I know is that, over decades of doing extensions for work/marriage/retirement, I have never been pressured by Immo/Bangkok to seek an agent or pay graft in order to get a routine, annual extension . To me, that says that corruption is not a way of life at Division 1. YMMV

For me, the main reason to do the retirement extension (versus the marriage ext) is the ability to be totally self-reliant. Processing the retirement extension requires only you, the ex-pat, and your Thai bank account. No one else needs to be involved, and that reduces potential complications or mishaps. In general, I think successful, retired ex-pats -- wherever they settle, should be able to do all the necessary administrative procedures required by the adoptive country. If, having mastered those procedures, the ex-pat may then wish to use the services of an agent or other helper to save time in preparing the documentation, standing in line, or other nuisance. But, in sum, Rule #1 of a successful overseas retirement is this: Know the local rules, and be able to fully comply with those rules on your own, with no help or involvement of anyone else.

Nothing in OP's post indicated that the Immo officers were shaking him down for a bribe. Unless you have some objective proof of the graft racket at Thai airports, then you should stop rumor-mongering.

It still amazes me that people who post on this forum still do not understand that, no matter what visa you may have obtained outside the county, it is up to the Immo officer at the border you cross to decide whether to let you in or not. Thai Immo officers are gatekeepers -- not a welcoming committee. Entry is not a right. It is a privilege. Act accordingly.