gummy

If the Christian message you are trying to spread is the one and only 'truth' why are the missionaries needing to resort to bribery to get people to listen? I would imagine if something was so obviously 'the truth', then people would be naturally attracted to it.

I have known people for years that I have not preached to. I just showed them the love of God in accordance with the Word of God. When I had a chance, I talked to them in detail about the gospel. It isn't bribery to show kindness to people. It is an expression of the nature of God. He is a giver. It would be out of God's character to point a rifle at people and force them to decide for your religion or die, as some religions do, and have done.

If it is the the 'one real truth' why are the churches in many former Christian countries now practically empty. Why are so many turning to different religions? Is this the work of the devil?

The reason the churces in many former Christian countries are practically empty is that the religions they were pushing had almost nothing to do with God, the Bible, or Christianity. I wish that the churches were not only empty, but never existed in the first place, because they so bastardized a relationship with Jesus into penance-doing, "saint"-worshiping, sicence-oppressing, marriage-forbidding, Christian-killing, homosexual-pedophile money worship cults.

The twisting of a relationship with God through Jesus Christ into the thousands of sects, false religions, and cults is definitely the work of the devil, and doesn't invalidate knowing God through Jesus Christ.

As stupid or ineffective, or unscriptural the methods some people use while being or thinking they are being witnesses for Christ does not make all Christianity into the gutless dead religion it got processed into in the Dark Ages any more than seeing hookers means all women are prostitutes.

But, if you want to point to prostitutes, specifically, the STD-infected loud ugly ones that call out to men on the street as your excuse for being gay, you are free to do so.

I stopped believing when the 1st sermons suddenly changed to become how to fill in the direct debit mandate for the bank. The only praying by that was done for us was to hope that we had all brought a pen and our bank details. By the way do the missionaries in Thailand yet accept credit cards ? If not may be a thought to get theselves down to Suk Soi 8 or that area at night so they can get a few more mugs, sorry converts, when they are too inebriated to know what they are signing for. Best to go for the lump sum donation though. As the bigger the donation the quicker they will find the truth and most importantly, they would probably cancel the direct debit mandate when they are sober.

Hallelujah brothers and sisters and may the great God up there bless you with the Jeasus Christ premium account in HER bank in Heavon

When will all you who posticulate with your high minded morals on Christians, who clearly know best for the rest of the world for the last 2000 years, and what the spread of that that can do via the missionary process please go back to basics and stop being the most sexually prejudiced collection of folk in the entire world. God must be a woman as who else could have actioned this whole mess and division which is currently masquarading under the guise of religion.

Of course God is female.

As I suggested earlier to one of your group please adapt your hypothesis as God was/is a women. The only truly none prejudiced civilisation in the last 2500 years that I can I think of are the early Greeks and Romans whom believed there was obviously more than one God of both sexes.

Further, the latter nationality group had a great deal of fun with you guys excercising their lions.

This may be a dumb question, but if the worlds largest economy currency were to crash where would Asia find a market to sell there goods? What would happen to their currencies?

They have enough people to sell in their own market I suppose.

There are lots of markets with 300 million overspending consumers out there to take up the slack. Barely a blip on the radar

Correct me if I'm wrong but the US is Asia's biggest export market if they lose that who in Asia will take up the slack when they have no jobs because of their factories closures. Also consider that China and India have huge populations but only a small domestic market. The vast majority of their populations live in poverty. Europe would certainly go in recesion as they also depend on the US economy for trade. I'm not an economist so plz bear with my speculations I could be wrong.

Spot on!!!

If it only was that simple...

If you need real figures (2005) about Major Importers - Major Exporters and Major Trader Partners, study this:

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2006...adoc_122529.pdf

The world is no longer about the USA, Europe or Asia....it's a Global world. I wish more people start understanding that.

There is no country anymore able to survive on its own without the other -trade/business with rest of the world- and that includes the US, Europe and Asia with almost 60% of the worlds population.

A lot of people in the world are 'afraid' of the unknown (China, India etc.) but.....if you can't beat them, join them.

A lot of US/EU/Canadian/Australian companies do....

If the demand of the Western countries wasn't so high, the Asian countries wouldn't produce so much.

Remember it is not the Asian countries selling so much...it's the Western world buying/demanding so much.

Believe me, the vast majority of Asian companies -staff- do not even speak proper English or not at all; in December I visited 10-15 factories/producers in China; only 2 (!) had 1 girl speaking reasonable English....

It's the consumers/buyers creating the demand not the producers, but of course they're more than happy to fulfill the demand.

And why would we, the rich westerners, not agree with a better lifestyle of the poor in Asia...?

LaoPo

What the devil has speaking good English got to do with it - The French still can't !!!

i saw them today on kao sarn road about 5 of them a few men and 1 or 2 girls, screaming about the lord jesus christ to all the peolpe , It makes me wonder what their getting paid, and how they work their visa lol

Its commision only and visa is no problem because after 15/30 days of holering and screaming it's back to re-hab for another month before they are let out again

After taking the technical details supplied by yourself, running a computer simulation based upon downloads of the typography in your area and then factoring in the minimalisation of the risks factor that you highlighted ,it appears from the output data a vehicle best suited to your needs, having the ability to provide maximimum mobilty with minimum risk whilst having consideration of your body mass's would be JCB.

Only kidding

It hurts me to hear of all the Christian bashing on this post. We Christians, for the most part, are a loving and caring people. While there are misfits, cheats and emotionally disturbed individuals in any group, for the vast majority of Christians, it is our love that compels us to tell you about Jesus.

If you truly believed in the core of your mind AND heart that there is an everlasting destiny for you and everyone else on the planet and that the choices one makes here while alive affect what happens after you die, wouldn't you, out of love, warn those of the dangers of the wrong choice? Even the most callous and disreputable person would warn a pedestrian of an impending meet with death at the hands of a large truck barreling straight for him.

I challenge anyone who gives the story of Christ a good and honest read with even a skeptical mind will be shaken to his core. The proofs of Christ's ressurection are many. Of course you need some help with understanding and thus the missionary.

We believe that Christ created the universe and was God. We believe that because God loves everyone ever born, He was not willing to see anyone suffer through eternity in hel_l, he sent His only Son to save us from a horrible fate. We believe that he was born of a virgin having been supernaturally impregnated. That he was fully man and fully God. That he was crucified for no reason, totally innocent, never having sinned. That he was bodily resurrected. That he will reign both here on earth, soon, and in heaven forever. That his last command, while on earth, to believers was to go unto all the earth telling all who would believe and baptizing him in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It is our personal and corporate responsibility to tell everyone, not just because of the command, but also because of the love we have for everyone.

Let no one tell you that they are sinless. Every Christian is as much a sinner as the non believer. The difference is that we have discovered the truth. I consider myself to be unbelievably lucky and blessed to find out this truth. When talking to others who believe as I, many of us have shed real tears when we consider those who have rejected Christ. We know for a fact what fate awaits them.

I cannot say whether the missionaries in this village are bribing or not. I would like to hear their side of the story before I condemn their actions. I think that only fair. I am certain that each of us share the belief that we are innoncent until proved guilty. Without hearing from the accused, no one should pass judgment. Therefore, I suggest to the poster, Garro, to show this forum to them and ask them to respond. I believe they will and we will all be surprised by the answer.

Yeah right but as God is a Woman your hypothesis needs a bit of fine tuning. Anyway isn't the " we want 10% religions" a little too much to pay, shouldn't the truth be free? Anyway you can take a horse to water but you can't force it to drink comes into play. And shouldn't by now the Americans have carpet bombed Rome for ordering the crucification of Jesus in the first place? especially as they are now the upholders of the worlds morals ?

This is linked to the other thread where they have asked the FBI for help. Shouldn't be a problem as they could come up with some suggestive evidence I'm sure for the Yanks to blame it on Muslims. Just hope they don't manufacture, oops sorry, find, sufficient evidence that warrants George W sendng his troops into the the South, mind you the Bush family would have an interest in the offshore gas field so invading yet another soveriegn country could boast the old pension fund a bit.

Well now the FBI are involved that should really have an impact !!!

GWB has had at least three treasury sect'y trying to prop up the dollar. this is an indicator of his 'strong dollar' policy announced so frequently and fervently throughout his tenure. (and the backbone of free trade)

i support our president in his oft stated goals of a 'strong dollar' and 'democracy in the middle east'.

that he has been unable to achieve both is not an indicator of his failure as a man or as a president.

that he has been unable to achieve either would be an indicator of both.

I guess it was inevitable that this become a political discussion.

Bush does not have a strong dollar policy. He has a weak dollar policy:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/conte...24034_mz007.htm

Most Americans know that what comes out the current administrations mouth is the opposite of the truth. He might have said the words "strong dollar" but that has nothing to do with his actual policies. A weak dollar is the only way Bush has had to have any control of the federal deficit. How else? Stop the war, raise taxes, cut entitlements? Fat chance.

I guess 20 percent of Americans agree with you that Bush's middle east adventure was a good idea. Good luck with that, because your man has basically trashed his party for a generation (and thats the good news ).

And trashed the confidance in US foreign policy for ever, well with help of Daddy as well of course.

So I don't think it will be the weak or strong dollar that will be the driver for US folk to leave, it will be the blunt facts that they as a Nation have lost the confidance of so many nations that this will result in an "alternative to" American business dealings and hence the demise of the current strong business ties. Most probably after China becomes the strongest economic nation, predicted around 2018, it's proximity and close cultural ties to this region will further accelerate that process. Perhaps this process would have commenced even sooner had it not been for the greatest American in USA's short history, Bill Gates,who hasbeen so influential in allowing access to the worlds knowledge bank through the development of the PC and of course the Cambridge English Professor ( whose name currently escapes me ) in perceiving and developing the internet.

Well if it does close for 18 months then wouldn't it be good if they could also fast-track the transportation system so that passengers could get to/from the airport without resorting to high price taxis or clogged expressways

gummy, you may be entitled to your view of the universe,depending on whether your country permits or not, however i doubt many from this part of the world would agree with your sympathy for the japanese during that war. also, if i remember correctly, the traditional japanese folklore was shinto, not buddhism. just keep in mind that their are many "brainwashed" buddhists, vietnamese, chinese, japanese,moslem, etc., etc., living and voting in the u.s.

Did I say I symphathised with the Japanese Imperial Army ? I said innocent civilians. US seem to be a state of permanant self-denial of its crimes against civilians. Thousands killed at a stroke hardly qualifies as collateral damage to the rest of the world. The point was, that given the US's record on crimes against other innocent civilians of other religions is it any wonder that people are concerned about the integrity and purpose of those missionaries about which this thread is about.

Like you I don't know but I had assummed it was perhaps planned for the future so that some high level walkways, transportation sysytems could be integrated without effecting the flow of the highway

Australia had their reserve team out.

There are some christians in Thailand who I admire: those who do not so much proselytise, but do active social work ...eg Father Joe Maier. Peace Blondie has made the distinction between "Bible bashers" and social activists with religious affiliations very clear.

Historically, however, the churches have been in the service of imperialism and (neo American)colonialism, and it is this arrogant presumption of the superiority of the Judeo Christian tradition that I find utterly distasteful.

I was approached by some enthusiastic pimply christian american kids two weeks ago at Tha Pae market in Chiang Mai. They announced their mission cheerfully and loudly as if they were the elect of God already, and needed to remind us heathen expats of the not-so "good news". When they said "we are missionaries' I told them I was mighty sorry to hear that, since this is a Buddhist country. They reacted as if they had been slapped, but at least they stopped singing out of tune...briefly.

US is the most insular country in the world as 73% of them do not have passports and hence travel no-where. However those that do have been brought up in the most brain-washed society on earth and honestly beieve they could do good deeds elswhere, as per these pimply kids in Tha Pae market. They honestly believed they thought they were doing good.

So did Stalin, so did Hitler and so did Pol Pot and more recently George W.

the u.s. is THE most diverse nation on the planet, representing every race and ethnicity in this world. it is also a democracy, ensuring each of these entities has a chance to participate in the process. insular?

Which proves my point that it is also the most brainwashed. Lets see now, which was the first and only country on this planet to use WMD in the form of the nuclear bomb to destroy the lives of several hundred thousand buddhists in Japan ? Not content with that it also carpet bombed Vietnamese civilians with another US devised weapon, Napalm, the fact that it was justified on the grounds of communist insurgency did not hide the fact that yet again US destroyed the lives of thousands of buddhist civilians.

Now they have turned away from that and are systemmatically destroying the lives of countless 10's of thousands of Moslims in Iraq.

US must be the sickest most hypocritical nation on earth able to get away with such inhuman activities owing to their wealth and current economical leverage. Is it little wonder therefore people in Thailand are more a than a little concerned about the morality of US missionaries bribing people when historically the US has shown scant regard for the lives of those of other religions elsewhere in the world?

There are some christians in Thailand who I admire: those who do not so much proselytise, but do active social work ...eg Father Joe Maier. Peace Blondie has made the distinction between "Bible bashers" and social activists with religious affiliations very clear.

Historically, however, the churches have been in the service of imperialism and (neo American)colonialism, and it is this arrogant presumption of the superiority of the Judeo Christian tradition that I find utterly distasteful.

I was approached by some enthusiastic pimply christian american kids two weeks ago at Tha Pae market in Chiang Mai. They announced their mission cheerfully and loudly as if they were the elect of God already, and needed to remind us heathen expats of the not-so "good news". When they said "we are missionaries' I told them I was mighty sorry to hear that, since this is a Buddhist country. They reacted as if they had been slapped, but at least they stopped singing out of tune...briefly.

US is the most insular country in the world as 73% of them do not have passports and hence travel no-where. However those that do have been brought up in the most brain-washed society on earth and honestly beieve they could do good deeds elswhere, as per these pimply kids in Tha Pae market. They honestly believed they thought they were doing good.

So did Stalin, so did Hitler and so did Pol Pot and more recently George W.

I don't like their tactics in Thailand or in any country, which is often to coerce, intimidate and control people's free thought. It's their way or the highway, so to speak. These groups often do not represent "mainstream" Christianity, if there is such a thing. Fortunately, they have not made major inroads in Thai society. We don't need a Christian version of the Taliban, which would be the end result, if they were to dominate social values.

The world already has it, it is called GW Bush and American policy. If you don't agree with what I tell you you must be against us so my troops ruotinely killing so many innocent adults and children in Afganistan and Iraq is your own fault - hel_l hath no fury like a President ( or his Father ) scorned. A bunch of hypocrites the whole ###### bunch of them including those so called missionries with monetary performance targets here or anywhere else.

Good to know that this spineless, Thaksin lacky is now admitting the obvious after getting kicked out. Isn't it amaasing how maybe a few hundred million baht in a Swiss bank account can improve the morality of these characters.

Let me give you a quote from the Dalai Lama "Religion Makes Good People".

In the haste to attack Christians missionaries in Thailand, let us not forget the absolutely first rate work Christian Missions have done in Thailand with Orphanages, Street Kids, The Victims of the Sex Industry, People Suffering from HIV/AIDS and their work with Ethnic Minorities and the Stateless people of Thailand. The Christian Missions also provide some of the best schools in Thailand.

Let us also remember that Thailand has no official religion and that the Thai Constitution protects freedom of worship.

It gets me to admit it , but I often find that Guesthouse usually comes over belonging to the pompous and pious element here but this time even I have to agree with him 100%. Well apart that is from his comments on the constitution which he should know Thailand does not currently have as it was rescinded on 15th Sept last year by the military junta. The Christian missionaries deserve far more than the praise they receive. They are here to help people and if then they attract those into their own faith, all the better, but that is not their main aim. That is to help people, God bless them.

The bribery type of missionary almost always come from the US, it is the "Give us 10%" type of religion driven by materialistic ambitons and supported by materialistic people, Tom Cruise being an excellant example. In my mind they have far less love for people than money.

I have just spoken to my relatives in Bang Rakam, Phitsanulok. Obviously most are Buddhists but 2 have married Catholics and none of them have heard of the "bribing missionaries" so lets hope it was an isolated case and that they will move on, or perferably back to the hole they crawled out of, when they don't meet their recruitment targets.

One only has to consider that these types of religions only grew up in America as that is where these bigoted crowd of mis-fits sailed to when they couldn't succeed in brain washing the masses in Europe during the 17th and 18th centuries

I've been looking into this myself recently. I haven't used them yet, but I have received good customer service and a reasonable quote from 'Excess Baggage'.

I have used then from/to/from UK excellant service. Don't know your country where shipping to but if UK you will need to declare to UK customs that goods are personnal effects, more than 6 months old to avoid import duty.

sorry moderator but just realised I posted it in wrong forum, can you switch to "General" pls

For all the pompous, bigoted and pious detractors of Thai education who consider Western education is preferable please read the attached just on BBC. Only this could happen in the States or no worse or better than Thailand ?

I have to ask though - do they actually check out pupils are of school age in the USA as a nomal process by referring to birth certificates, registers or whatever the formal birth registration and schoolastic entry requirements are there or if, as the article infers , because they look right they must be right ?

I will not be responding further on this subject, just interested in what responses are received. I am looking for responses from people qualified to reply sensibly on how the educational acceptance system works in the States rather than replies from opinionated and snobbish plonkers who don't or never had lived there.

US sex offender 'posed as pupil' Mr Rodreick was reportedly "fairly quiet" at schoolA 29-year-old convicted sex offender has spent four months at a US school after successfully posing as a 12-year-old boy, officials say.

They say Neil Rodreick shaved his body hair, covered his stubble with make-up and took a new name to attend Imagine Charter School in Phoenix, Arizona.

The 173cm (5ft 6in) man was eventually expelled for poor attendance in 2006.

He was arrested after trying to enrol at another school. He has since been charged with forgery and fraud.

Mr Rodreick spent seven years in jail after being convicted of lewdly propositioning a six-year-old boy in 1996.

'Age-appropriate'

Mr Rodreick adopted the name Casey Price to attend Imagine Charter School, investigators say.

We are just shocked

Mindy Newlin, pupil's parent

They say he blended well with the other pupils, many of whom were actually taller and bigger than him.

He attended classes and always handed in his homework on time.

"He absolutely looked age-appropriate," school spokeswoman Rhonda Cagle told the New York Times newspaper.

"By all accounts from the teachers, he was fairly quiet and withdrawn," she said.

Mindy Newlin, parent of one of the pupils at the school, said: "We are just shocked."

Mr Rodreick even convinced two men who had been looking for boys on the internet to pretend to be his relatives. He was caught earlier in January, after teachers at another school in Arizona - where had gone for a day - became suspicious. In all, Mr Rodreick spent nearly two years disguised as a boy

british birth certificate is about 4000 baht .....

british birth certificate is 7913 bhat and the passport is 4475 bhat. make sure u take your own long birth certificate with u as the small 1 i took was no good and i have to go back again and do it.

7913 baht for a birth certificate! What would it cost if the baby was born in the UK?

No cost. Our Son was born in the UK and hence automatically got a British Birth certificate. We then took this to the Thai Embassy in London where they issued a Thai birth certificate free of charge. Obviously the British Embassy in BKK recognises a nice little earner when it see one.

Our daughter was raised in Thailand for the first 7 years of her life, or son for the first 5 years, we have now moved to Europe.

The reason for the move was not only what was best for our children but what was best for us as a family. However, the consideration of our children's education, welfare and development was one of the major issues and I would add, was becoming increasingly important as the grew older.

We had the advantage of my employers paying for our children to go to the best international school in our area (Choburi) but we still felt, as did many of our professional expatriate friends, that Thailand was a great place to raise children - Up to a certain age.

Certainly we are extremely happy with the education and development of our children outside of Thailand, in particular we are very happy with the way our daughter has been encouraged to think of herself far more as an individual entitled to her own opinions and own choices in life.

Both of our children have been challenged in the education system outside of Thailand in a way that was not happening within Thailand.

I think it is important to accept that this is a comparison of what is claimed to be one of the best schools in Thailand with what is recognized as an excellent school here in Europe. I shudder to think what kind of education kids receive in the Thai state system, shackling minds seems to be the main aim of the rote learning most Thai children are subjected to.

As for these doom and gloom reports of Kids in the UK. Last year I had the privilege (and it was a privilege) to visit 8 different schools in the UK promoting engineering as a career. These where all comprehensives, the children we met all between the ages of 16 and 18.

I was stunned by the abilities and commitment of these young people. All very polite and respectful, they asked questions and engaged in discussion with enquiring and I would say agile minds. It was clear, learning, getting on in life, making a contribution and being engaged in life was hugely important to these young people.

Not a yob in sight, just young people with a zest of life.

I realize a bunch of smiling, compliant Thai kids might be less of a challenge. But I know which way I want my kids to grow up.

And that to me is the biggest danger of raising a child in Thailand – Having your daughter raised as dolly for irresponsible men, having your son raised as exactly that irresponsible person you don't want for your daughter and having Son or Daughter trained (I don't say educated) to do as they are told without thinking, and certainly without asking questions.

Is good to note that you have such enthusiasm for UK schools and you attach high importance to challenging children How unfortunate therefore you felt unchallanged to find out even a tiny amount about the Thai state schools whilst you were here hence your comments.

I expect you are one of those many expats who surrounded yourselves with other expats and hence have no comprehension of the local environment even after 7 years. Now I can see why, that in another thread, you were upholding the virtues of Hippies in Thailand. You led a 7 year blinkered existance.

I have 4 children, 2 Thai/English and 2 English. Both English children were educated in the UK state system and have seemingly good careers after graduating although one has now chosen to resort to family life. The other children in Thailand, one was brought up thro the state system you so willing debase and has just been excepted into Oxford and the other is just on the ladder. So I fully support the comments of daveupson when he say it matters not but requires good guidance from parents more importantly. Therefore I would ask you not to close your mind to the pros and cons of other state's systems until you fully understand them both, only then can you judge.

To infer, as you have, that Thai girls and boys will be brought up in such a manner as you suggest is not only insulting it exhibits a degree of bias, snobbery and cultural ignorance only uplifted by the fact that fortunately for us all here you are now back in the UK.

As for you extolling the zest for life of school children in the UK perhaps you should visit some schools in Hackney and Streatham. They have a zest for life alright - but not as we know it.

racist and nationalistic t*at

Has it taken all your previous hundreds of postings to respond with an insult or does it come naturally ? or perhaps it is just a way of advertising your rentals in the wrong thread ?

Alternatively is it the name of one of those coil things I was asking about ?

There seems to be a grouping of backpackers, young people and hippies in this post.

I would not group them together by any means.

Backpackers are people traveling on a budget.....I did it for years, but always researched the country I was about to travel to.(thats half the fun, for me) I always tried to respect the culture of the place.

It is a common paragraph in all literature I have read about Thailand...to dress respectfully.

Hippies in filthy pajamas, and matted hair...or braless halter tops, offends Thai people.

I believe the term used to describe these hippies was "Farang kee nok" which translates to..."Bird Sh1t foreigner"

My Thai friends, my Thai wife, and I were surprised and disgusted with the "hippie" culture in Pai.

I have nothing against young people travelling. Nothing against backpacking.

But have some common sense and respect for the people you are the guest of.

I wholeheartedly agree and thus in line with the subject matter title I have discussed Hippies in my responses. Clearly some of those "Well educated" Hippy supporters have erroneously included back-packers in their thoughts, either that or their education is not as good as they profess and are unable to understand the differances.

Also like you, my Thai wife, our children and her family would expect them to show respect as they do when in foreign countries.