Paagai

I have been reading this thread, and feel sickened.

Does Thailand really have this sort of percentage of sick, inconsiderate, narrow minded, bigoted, childish Ex-Pat morons such as are posting on this thread?

So many inappropriate comments here. Too many to pick on any particular one. But I would state this:-

If you were sat in a bar discussing this horrific murder, and there were a number of people present who know the victim present, would you really say these things in their presence?

You can answer one of two ways I guess:-

(1) Yes you would - In which case I regard you with contempt, because you are a sad excuse for a human being, with no compassion.

or

(2) No you wouldn't - In which case I regard you as a gutless coward that hides behind the anonymity of the internet.

Please people. I used to really like Thai Visa, and I have had a lot of useful information from people who are on the whole (Or on the surface?), nice people. However, reading threads like this where everybody is throwing in their 2cents worth, with no foundation, basis, or thought for those that knew this guy, really makes me begin to dislike this forum.

I didn't know the guy, but I will offer what so many other of you should be doing, instead of your mindless drivel . A simple message, RIP.

Phil

Well said, Phil. You've saved me a lot of writing because you expressed my thoughts so clearly.

All I would add is that I spent most of yesterday with the Police at David's house and can say that 90% of what I read in the press so far is pure fantasy.

I can't divulge details, but I can say the police have quite capably been able to discern motive, opportunity, means and identity. Some of the identity work they did was really quite astounding considering the time frame. My hats off to them. The hunt is on.

(As an example of the drivel in the articles, one mentions David was a restauranteur. Those of us who knew him would tell you that he's as likely a restauranteur as General Chavalit is a ski instructor.)

Since retiring to Chiang Mai, David was a tireless fundraiser and humanitarian, complementing his gift for music teaching, performance and composition. He used his choral group to regularly raise funds for a number of charities, including the Fund for Education of Rural Children which supports rural schools (yes, Tai Yai and Shan) near the Burmese border.

David will be sorely missed, both by those who knew him, and by those who didn't know him but who benefited from his generosity and hard work.

Goodbye, David. We loved you.

The two most sensible posts on this thread so far. As Peekint has stated above, the reality is always far different from the rumour mill, let alone the crap spouted by the tabloid press. It is clear that both the BIB and the Tai Yai community in Chiang Mai have good knowledge of what happened and already have a name for the main purpertrator. Please everyone else shut up and let justice take its course.

There are better places on the internet for people who new David to post tributes. Personally, I am embarrased to have started this thread given the number of bigoted hompophobes from Chinag Mai's ex-pat communit who've crawled out of the woodwork to denigrate David's lifestyle and post their poison and speculation.

Moderators: CLOSE IT PLEASE!

P.S. As one final comment to refute allegations made here: AFAIK David was not a chaser of underage boys. The term "Boy" is often used by the ex-pat Gay community to mean hadnsome young men over 18 years of age and in no way implies involvement of anyone who is a minor.

The tribal ritual story, I think should be taken with a pinch of salt and didn't see it mentioned in the Thai article.

Has anyone honestly heard of Shan smashing lights after robberies to avoid capture.

I suppose simple robbery would be too boring for reporters.

The Sun is famous for following the journalists motto: "never let the truth stand in the way of a good story". What is sad is that's the tag line that's now been picked up in all the other reports.

The ritualistic killing bit is pure tabloid hype. Was just talking to some Shan friends and they were saying its not just a Shan thing but several other hill tribes, such as Musa (Spelling?) who believe in this and most don't take it too seriously.

The comments about the Shan (AKA Tai Yai) are also wrong, they are not a Hill tribe but the indigenous population from the Shan State in Myanmar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shan. Of course, many of the villages there still don't have electricity, despite what the Sun says!

Bruce and Tom were there, and host David, and guys named Max and Fred, maybe 15 Thai names I forgot how to pronounce. Lots of folks could not follow the excellent map through the long klongs of Chiang Mai Lakeland, and assumed all those pretty balloons must be leading them to a gay party. No. But David's massive house held everybody, all the food and drinks, several cats, and a duck. Some guy with a long blond pony-tail drove his CBR150 all the 250 meters to David's house. Thanks to all. Excellent food.

I don't see the latest pictures posted yet, but the public website is http://lyccnx.110mb.com/

Shockingly, and very sadly, David's body was found today in his house; apparently he'd been murdered. It appears he was killed by an intruder or someone he knew not long after the party. David was a friend, a gentlemen and genuine nice guy who will be sadly missed by many. RIP

Take care everyone, incidents like this should serve to remind us of our own mortality, and that Thailand is not the safe paradise some like to believe.

roughly translating the article from thai rath ,

police and investigators found the body of david crisp , an english music teacher and songwriter , in his house. he had been dead for at least 4 days.

he had been beaten with a vase and his throat had been cut , there was evidence of a struggle and the house had been ransacked.

further investigation revealed that he had opened a restaurant in a quiet part of town and that he was a homosexual who regularly brought young men back to his room.

the police suspect/guess that the killer was a jealous lover or that he was killed as part of a robbery.

Confirms what I'd heard, thanks. RIP David; many people will remember you as a real gentleman.

I am keen to know the name of the person, once verified.

Others have confirmed it's who I first heard, and that's exceedingly sad news as iots someopne who was talented, respected and known to many here in Chinag Mai. But I'm reluctant to name names without some official confirmation.

Blinky Bill's more dangerous scenario also seems to apply.

Heard reports that Thai TV news is reporting a Farang having been murdered in his house somewhere out on the Canal Road. Apparently by someone he'd taken home with him.

Anyone hear anything about this and can confirm it? Would be very shocking if the identity of the guy is who I've heard.

Going into Geek mode I investigated...............

The Modem was set up with the TOT defaults (though its not a TOT modem, already discarded that peice of Xavi junk long ago) and G.dmt modulation. Changing to multimode, the modem recognises 512K uplink, has much better line margins and everything is noticably faster. TV Speedtest now:

Last Result:

Download Speed: 1721 kbps (215.1 KB/sec transfer rate)

Upload Speed: 395 kbps (49.4 KB/sec transfer rate)

Latency: 265 ms

22 January 2009 13:35:24

Maybe TOT have been changing DSLAMs or reconfiguring them?

Agree with others, TOT has been attrocious last few days, and a couple of evenings virtually unusable to some sites.

Using TV speed test on a 2048/160 TOT line just now (N.B. I thought it was a 2048/512 line - TOT Goldcyber - but 160 upload is what the Modem is reporting):

Last Result:

Download Speed: 1033 kbps (129.1 KB/sec transfer rate)

Upload Speed: 124 kbps (15.5 KB/sec transfer rate)

Latency: 325 ms

22 January 2009 13:09:17

Dunno where the test server to say how much is an international problem, but my practical usegae refelcts Priceless' comments that the pipe outta Thailand is the problem.

Good on you Jackr. We've gotta keep ahead of that idiotic bread bag thread.

A thread on how often we all remove other people's underwear would be more fun

Personally I have no use for underwear, you can just punch two holes in the used bread bag and it'll do for a couple of days

Ummm, highly suspicious to me this guy has been on TV two days, and clocked up nearly forty posts half of which seem to be promoting his business, or talking pure crap, like this one. Mods???

To the OP: suggest you have a conversation with ICO law firm in Chiang Mai. Apart from being good and highly respected lawyers, they seem very adept at resolving related problems in creative ways and am sure they can help you with PI services.

I think my posts have been genuine and helpful... I really fail to understand why people like you continue to badger others. Do you have a self confidence problem? I am not promoting my business... I posted a genuine question about finding suitable programmers for my websites... half of which are not operational yet... so what's to promote?

My comment was not crap.. In my opinion...asking a legal firm to do private investigative services is like trying to mix oil with water.... DUH! Besides they fact that they are not legally permitted to do such work and often fail to provide required services in this area. If a Lawyer offers to engage in such activity.... FIND A NEW LAW FIRM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PaaGai... in the future... just offer sound advice to others and don't waste your time writing crap :-) The idea of these forums are to help people in need... and build relationships. If you red my posts in detail... you will see I am helping... not promoting. Please... at least get your facts straight should you wish to attach someone.

Kind regards

How long have you been in Chiang Mai? For all your BS you really didn't understand what I was actually saying in my post at all did you?

Forty posts in two days and you claim to have a life, wow nuff said!

Who knows of any good school/course where I can let my girlfiend learn how to speak English?

I can recommend EFL - the forum sponsor under the teaching section. Ask for James, he's a good teacher.

AUA have also been running classes for many years.

AUA has had the best run program for English learners for years

AUA is Ok if you want to learn American English....... But for the real thing try British Council

I am a business man.... with operations in 3 countries... I travel a lot... about 300,000 KM a year or more. You hear all kinds of horror stories and when the cat's away... the mice will play. I don't understand why people like you make posts like this... tell me to get a life? You know nothing about me and my life.... and the sad but true fact is... you cant trust all Thai Women... it is far better to be a live dog then a dead lion... so many men get taken for lots of money by these women. I was smart enough not to let it happen to me.

So... I have a life.. and a good one too... your comment was ill advised and poorly thought out. Not everyone is lucky enough to meet a good Thai girl the first time around. I am happy to say that I did... everything checked out... we have been together for 2 years and will marry soon.

My advice to the person who originally posted this question ( SHOCKER ) is to do what you feel is right... TRUST... YES VERIFY... you are far better to be safe than sorry.

Ummm, highly suspicious to me this guy has been on TV two days, and clocked up nearly forty posts half of which seem to be promoting his business, or talking pure crap, like this one. Mods???

To the OP: suggest you have a conversation with ICO law firm in Chiang Mai. Apart from being good and highly respected lawyers, they seem very adept at resolving related problems in creative ways and am sure they can help you with PI services.

I have just read on a thai webboard (TMM Society) that Free Guy would have closed.

I hope I misunderstood the statement as I liked the boys there a lot ...

News to me......... two nights ago I had a drink with a couple of guys from there, before they went to work, so believe it was business as usual Went to a party there about ten days ago and the place was in full swing; many new handsome "waiters". I think there is a misunderstanding somewhere but will report back if I hear different.

Update: Had some friends visting this weekend so did the obligatory venue tour (my liver is still recovering from the two bottles of JW Black in Mandagay ) Pleased to report Free Guy is very much alive and well, with a good show and lots of big...........[cut!!!!] Their proud boast is no Ladyboys in the show! Well rumours of their demise are definitely untrue.

New My Way has lots of guys but few real cute ones. The chicks with dicks in dirty frocks lip sync routines leave me cold, and as for the two freaks trying to do a real dance number, that was just bizzare. Nearly peed myself laughing they were so bad, and couldn't keep in step if their lives depended on it.

Club Grooves (ex Doi Boys) is off the list these days and didn't have time to sample Circle (Too packed with Thais on a weekend anyway). Soho was busy as ever, Radchada Cafe had quite a few too, mainly Thai (and some cute guys ) with a few ex-pats holding court at the bar. Garden Bar had a few farangs though very few of the usual Shan boys were around. Maybe its too cold (N.B. there's been a cold snap in Northern Thailand last week or so)?

Popped into the Peak for a quick one at MTVee bar. Oh what a mess; they seem to have started ripping some of the bars apart around the couple that are still open, place looks like a bomb site. MTVee had a few customers, Friendship had two and Paradise had some tourist boy/girls playing pool. Didn't try the other bars (behind D2) but heard its gone very underage recently, indeed, you only have to look at what's out in the street. Avoid, or better still Help do something about it!

Oh well, on to better things, Mandalay sure lived up to its Mandagay nickname

If I understand you correctly, you simply did the next 90 day address reporting from Chiangmai - ie skipped the address change form/process - and told them you'd moved the day before. Also you showed them nothing as evidence of your new, Chiangmai address??? (If I can avoid showing them my rental agreement, which shows the rental start date etc, I'd be much more relaxed - although I could tell them I didn't fully move in until later...etc)

If you live in rented accomodation (i.e. with a rental agreement), is it not the owner's responsibility to report this? Or is that just for the police?

Nearest one is in Santitham Plaza

There's a closer public pool in the Soi behind (North) of Chang Phuek Soi 2. Dunno opening times or other details. The Santitham Plaza pool is more modern but opens late and erractically.

Where can I see regional weather maps of the CM area? Sites like Weather Underground may have satellite and radar maps for all of SE Asia, but I can't find any that are very detailed for Thailand. Maybe a university has weather maps online? Thanks!

Thai Meteorological Department

Weather radar:

http://www2.tmd.go.th/radar/cmi240.php

Or the home page for this site has links to various maps and resources for the whole country

http://www.tmd.go.th/en/

ahhhhh ... is that what those two old buildings in tops car park are or were ?

Yep, that's the old Simon Cabaret - in fact, originally, the large carpark area was more the Simon Cabaret car park than anything to do with Tops (or Rimping back then...) - full of tour busses in it heydey! There's also a bar restaurant place at the back of the car park now.

i went all round the lofts area mornings , afternoons and evenings many times ( admitedly early 9 ish ) listening for music , bells , chickens , tanoy systems , temple clocks / drums etc and only noticed one of those places open one night and there were only families with young kids going in to what i thought , eat ?

maybe it turns into a raving disco later ? and why they were almost begging me to move in .

Differ doesn't start getting busy until about 1.00 a.m. The parking areas is the space between the Loft Condo and the Disco - gets packed and plenty of noise from the motorbikes. The entrance to Differ is round the back so you can't see it from the road.

Stament:

A couple more suggestions are D&D Mansion on Thanin Road and Gold Place on Viangbua Road, though you probably know these already and frankly, I'd think Emporium is better and these would be a downgrade!

Paagai can elaborate, but Soho is a restaurant on Huay Kaew, next to Amazing Sandwich. Not a gogo

Thanks, is this the place where waiters can be offed and the waiters do a dancing show after kitchen closes???

Is that why they call it Amazing Sandwich ? They sure kept that sideline quiet

Sorry, I shouldn't have assumed everyone new Soho (see: sohochiangmai dot com)! It is a slightly sophisticated bar more than a restaurant, but certainly not a Go-Go bar. Its more of a socialising place for gay people and definitely not a money boy hang out nor off bar or pickup joint, but never say never . You can order food from the nearby Lemon Tree restaurant and I believe they will soon do there own snacks too.

It was quite popular with all the Farang queens from the nearby condos when it first opened, but a change of ownership a couple of years back killed the place. It was recently purchased by a genial American called Scott, who's a great host and has won back the customers. New friendly and attentive staff and re-envigorated decor have completed the transformation.

Clientele is mainly ex-pats with some tourists and several older/proffesional Thai patrons too. Bar tenders are higher class than many places (students and guys with real day jobs) and the atmosphere is conversational and friendly, rather than loud music.

The only place I can think of with offable waiters was the old Golden Ball which has now morphed into Radchada Cafe (Radchada dot com). Radchada is more of a local bar with food rather than pure restaurant; I don't think it does offs. Quieter than Golden Ball it seems to have a few ex pat regulars together with a mix of gay students drinking before Mandalay, and a few Tai Yais from the other go-go bars hanging around. The owner Khun Note, is a veteran of the Chiang Mai scene probably know to many here. Speaks good English and provides some entertainment with his razor sharp tounge. Website also has a good up to date gay guide to Chiang Mai.

For a google map of gay places in Chiang Mai this is also good:

Link to maps.google.com

Is that enough elaboration?

P.S. to avoid confusion "Amazing Sandwich" is not a gay venue but a day time sandwhich shop!

This reminds me, there was a plan a couple of years ago to move the Consulate out on the Hang Dong road as the current building has to be returned to the government or something in a few years. Anyone know if that's still alive?

You might try to do a deal with my lovely friend Nolan who owns Santitham Guest House.

It is full of character and way better than your normal guest house. It's actually several buildings and every room's different with nice shared areas......kitchen.....sitting rooms etc.

Do a google.

John

Whilst Santitham Guest House is definitely a beautiful place, AFAIK most of the current rooms don't have ensuite bathrooms. They are building more rooms and the place has been a construction site for a couple of years with no sign they'll finish anytime soon. With construction and a street level location on Santitham it's going to be noisey!

Similarly, the Loft place by Tops. I'm not suprised they are desparate for customers - its right next to Differ (Back of the old Simon Cabaret). A very popular lo-so Discotec open until about 6:00 a.m. Unless you're entirely nocturnal be careful!

going to an expat club does not mean you live in a farang ghetto. most people who go join in both farang and thai activities, and integrate well.

however, i am glad you find it amusing; so you are now well amused but sadly not well informed

Well as it happens I've met quite a few people who are involved in the expat club, computer, club, photo club, chiang mai friends, monk chat, arrai godai etc. And I'm well enough imformed to see most of their lives revolve around these activities and they couldn't survive here without them and a Farang support network. They are also those who moan incessantly about EVERYTHING that is wrong with Thailand, rather than accepting the country for what it is and enjoying it. Sorry, just not my thing.

As to "Thai activities" I don't think parading from hillside four to Kad Suan Kaew with the latest bar girl/boy trophy they picked up really qualifies!

As to your comments about ICO, knowing the people behind that business it may be ill advised to make any further derogatory remarks about them on public forums if you are planning a long and happy life in Thailand. From what I've seen they are people who can get things done and solve problems creatively - just what you need in a Thai lawyer IMHO.

There was another fire Sunday night 8.30 in Charoen krung. Top floors were the gay sauna GSM, one person died, see also topic in General topics, with pictures of patrons in towels being rescued by fire men's ladders, probably also no emergency exits.

Near naked men being rescued by macho Thai fireman sounds like a homoerotic plot for a porn movie.......or maybe it was arson: some gay queen seeking attention from the fire service

So back on topic: I suggest Thanh takes off the rose tinted glasses and stops bragging about his superman abilities. Very macho to make all these claims about how you could escape from this, kick down doors, blah, blah, blah.

The reality: just suppose the wooden stage and curtain in DJ did catch fire, in seconds the place would be filled with smoke and the heat and flames would rise rapidly. The stampede of people off the stage would completely swamp the groundfloor area, and the stampede down the stairs (which are dangerous at the best of time when the place is packed) would kill many tens of people before they even though about finding a fire exit. There is NO WAY DJ would pass any western fire codes and you are really naieve if you somehow think this place is safe.

That said, I wouldn't not go to DJ because of this danger. One has to be realistic about life and you are still more likely to die crossing Silom Road to get there, than in the club! The main reason to not go to Silom is too many Farangs! Sake, Radchada Soi 8 and Saphan Kwai are all better places to go when in BKK.

If you really want a death trap, think of the old Adams Apple in Chiang Mai with the wax candles or fire eating shows....... Two floors up and only a rickety metal spiral staircase to get out!

I am most probably going to be moving to Chiang Rai to take up my new position for a couple of years. Does anyone know of any decent GAY venues/massage etc places there to visit? I heard of Lobos and Regency but they both seem to be ripping customers off !

Cheers.

Lobos and Reganecy are both cheap by the standards of anywhere else in the country so I don't know about ripping anyone off, though you do have to watch the freaky captain and the bill in Lobos Also, heard it has now moved to a smaller venue round the corner, not much going on. Anyway, I've always had a good time in these places

Other than that the night bazzar is quite cruisy, especially some of the waiters There is a disco along the street from the clock tower (About 2 blocks west) which has a large gay contingent on a Saturday night. There are two places in one building its the downstairs one and the gay area used to be at the back on the right though haven't been for about 18 months.

I find all these threads about ex pat clubs or whatever quite amusing, partly because I really don't get it. If I wanted to be hanging around with a load of farangs all the time I'd still be living in the west. What is the attraction of moving to live half way round the world and then hanging out with the same type of boring, moaning people you knew back home?

Thailand is a fantastic place to live, and apart from really only a couple of good Farang friends, all my friends, and all the people I spend time with on a daily basis are Thai (or Burmese). A couple of times a week I might go to a Farang restaurant/bar (only because my Farang friends want to go there - and only at times I know they'll be empty); other wise, my definition of a good place to go out is somewhere where there are no Farangs.

The thought of going to a meeting with a whole pile of ex-pats would have me climibing the walls. Whilst Thai Visa is a useful place for exchanging views and information I really don't want to meet any of you guys face to face. And trust me, you wouldn't like me either

So what is it with these ex-pats clubs? Why do people feel compelled to wall themselves into Farang ghettos and only associate with Farangs here? Is this not the behaviour that we would critisie as "not integrating into society" when an ethenic minority does it in the west, be it Mexicans in LA or Pakistanis in Bradford?

I stayed at the Emporium residence last time and liked the place and am keen to stay in the area. I saw a couple of new condo's being built nearby that looked nice (just past the roundabout as you go towards Chiang Mai) and wondered what the names of these places were. Does anyone know please?

Alternatively, if anyone knows of something a bit better than Emporium Residence in the area then perhaps you could advise.

You should try Noppakao Place, brand new condotel just off Santitham Road about 500M North of Emporium on Thongkwao Road. Rooms have a high quality finish and, I understand, reasonable rates. They have a website: noppakaoplace.com This place is easily the most upmarket in the area now; better and cheaper than the somewhat overpriced Viangbua Mansion.

I'm not sure which the other places you refer to are, but there are a couple of new developments on Moracot Road just off Santitham (First left after Emporium heading towards the circle). One is called View Doi or something similar, from the outside it looks similar to Emporium, maybe a little more downmarket. I think the other place is called Ban Kong Rao but it looks more upmarket, boutique type thing, has signs in English and have seen a few Farang wandering in and out. The ITM massage school on Santitham has a long list of nearby accomodation on its website too: itmthaimassage.com