jdinasia

All this talk of retesting DNA is it in fact retesting or just testing for the first time, early on there was some discussion on the speed of the original testing and as for the DNA testing of mumnuts or whatever his name is well how long did that take to prove is innocence.

The trial is a joke but will we be laughing at the end?

Retest or not doesn't really matter as the DNA they are testing has either come from a contaminated crime scene where relatives of original suspects were allowed to tamper, OR the DNA was provided by an unnamed official who keeps "guilty" Burmese worker DNA samples in a pickle jar in his ice box.

Nothing accurate in your post

Any trial... No matter what the system, has to demonstrate rational thought and deduction as well as an orderly scientific procedure

It seems that many on this thread don't grasp this and feel that by arguing about evidence and theories of what might have happened, they are somehow participating in the debate... This is incorrect and they are in fact just clouding the real issues... They are behaving just like the Thai authorities and helping them to get away with a tragic farce masquerading as justice

Rational thought and deduction hey?

I guess that could explain how people who are on pretty ordinary salaries come to be multi millionaires, of what is commonly known as "unusual wealth"

But,yeah, Its because they are stock market geniuses, right?

Do wake up old boy, or if you happened to be nestled in your farang utopia..then go back to sleep and save us!!

I'd say this is pretty indicative of the standard of posting on this thread...... The poster clearly hasn't even bothered to read my post before making a comment that has no connection it and then includes an ad hominem comment for good measure.

Whatever, . . . . what trial is a real trial without a jury? This whole legal system is obscene. The jury system in the west is under attack but we still have it, at least.

Many places have trials without juries, and even in the US defendants can choose to have no jury.

Let us ALSO not forget that a week ago the

Head Surat Thani Prosecutor was murdered in his home.

The person with the most knowledge of the evidence and it's provenance died with his throat slashed, sitting in a chair in his home.

Ostensibly a robbery gone wrong, but oh so convenient for this case, if you want to direct a verdict based on fear and intimidation on all levels... Not just scaring off of a translator....

But that (unrelated though it is) doesn't fit in with the conspiracy theorists and would only benefit the 2 Burmese defendants....

jdinasia and JTJ. Your beloved Thai police have 'lost' the DNA evidence.

How so utterly, utterly convenient.

Keep watching the case.

Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan is actually a highly respected forensic scientist and is independant. She has worked on numerous cases and has, in the past, turned police cases upside down by showing evidence that the parties were infact innocent. A good step for the case, either way.

Issue remains, where is the British police report?

She lost her credibility with her repeated endorsement of the fake bomb detectors even after they had been proven to be a total fraud.

The British police report is not and cannot be part of this Thai judiclal procedure. Stop holding your breath.

Oh, the tired argument about the bomb detectors. Bomb detectors aren't her specialty. That's what military experts are supposed to do, and Thai military experts were completely wrong, even when the rest of the world knew the detectors were useless, expensive scams. Her specialty is crime forensics.

And to try and thwart Brit experts' findings on forensics - show you to be another apologist for Thai officialdom's many mistakes. Are you also shielding the Headman's family members who were, and still should be prime suspects?

The GT200 was supposed to be a forensic tool. Something that could detect trace evidence. It certainly could not do that.

Khunying Pornthip was supposed to be the best forensic expert in Thailand. Her continued support for the GT200 most certainly damaged her credibility.

If she's got such damaged credibility (in your view) why was she recently re appointed as head of Forensics. mmmm Who made that appointment, could it have been the Juntas cabinet, oh dear yes it was.

Her unfailing support for the GT200? The conspiracy theorists suggest that this goes to the very top. You say that folks at the very top want her in the position.

Her willingness to toe the line in support of a fake bomb detector when speaking out against it would have hurt efforts in the Deep South?

For me her credibility is severely impacted when dealing with the UK. The device she endorsed was found to be a scam in a UK court and the guy selling them was jailed.

The defense is doing its job. Mounting a vigorous defense for the 2 Burmese defendants.

But nothing that they are saying to the press is actually important. I am really interested in seeing what they offer into actual evidence.

Perhaps they are keeping what they know close to their chest. It would be pointless holding a trump card and declaring what it is early in the game.

That could mean their lives are in danger - hope they have competent body guards

I agree (not to lives in danger, )but as of now the defense statements are just buzz. I don't know how much that buzz affects the case in front of the judges, but it riles up the folks that are pro 2 Burmese defendants.

Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan is actually a highly respected forensic scientist and is independant. She has worked on numerous cases and has, in the past, turned police cases upside down by showing evidence that the parties were infact innocent. A good step for the case, either way.

Issue remains, where is the British police report?

She lost her credibility with her repeated endorsement of the fake bomb detectors even after they had been proven to be a total fraud.

The British police report is not and cannot be part of this Thai judiclal procedure. Stop holding your breath.

Oh, the tired argument about the bomb detectors. Bomb detectors aren't her specialty. That's what military experts are supposed to do, and Thai military experts were completely wrong, even when the rest of the world knew the detectors were useless, expensive scams. Her specialty is crime forensics.

And to try and thwart Brit experts' findings on forensics - show you to be another apologist for Thai officialdom's many mistakes. Are you also shielding the Headman's family members who were, and still should be prime suspects?

The GT200 was supposed to be a forensic tool. Something that could detect trace evidence. It certainly could not do that.

Khunying Pornthip was supposed to be the best forensic expert in Thailand. Her continued support for the GT200 most certainly damaged her credibility.

The defense is doing its job. Mounting a vigorous defense for the 2 Burmese defendants.

But nothing that they are saying to the press is actually important. I am really interested in seeing what they offer into actual evidence.

In all my years as a journalists I have never seen a rape murder case where an assailant uses a condom ?

I guess men from Myanmar play it safe

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/08/22/nyregion/rapists-and-condoms-is-use-a-cavalier-act-or-a-way-to-avoid-disease-and-arrest.html

That being said, from the initial news reports, the condom isn't relevant to the 2 Burmese defendants.

Thistle article clears up some of the testimony from yesterday

Asian Correspondent piece - 'justice looks elusive'. Also mentions police admission that they had lost evidence

http://asiancorrespondent.com/134045/thailand-justice-looks-elusive-in-koh-tao-murders-trial/

Can't you read?

Where does it say the word lost?

If you eat all of the apples and somebody asks you if they can have one do you reply "no, I have lost them"!!!

The policeman uses the word 'lost'. See for yourself, last line, second paragraph

http://www.samuitimes.com/day-two-of-the-koh-tao-murder-trial/

The article uses the words " or may have "

It's still early in the trial

Didnt it take 5 or 6 attempts to get this to go to court and now this nonsense. Did they just think the world press would be to busy to turn up?

No matter what further evidence they produce from the shopping trolley now it can never be trusted. I wonder if they even know what they have in the trolley, who packed it, seems to me its like a lucky dip for them! For Gods sake stop the trial now.

Not letting that bias back in yet are you?

There's still a lot of evidence to go through, including the friends of the defendants testimony about the phone, finding out if there are still samples of DNA to be tested etc

Plus it's very important to hear from the defense in open court about their UK evidence!

It takes seven years, to get an conviction? No hope for this country!

This was the final appeal to the Supreme Court.

First sentence was death. Appeals court reduced it to 20 years. Supreme Court upheld the appeals court decision?

IATA keeps records of all passengers. Independent agency that even conspiracy theorists cannot be suggesting were involved. Since Nok flies to international destinations they are required to maintain records for all flights.

Not to mention the fact that the video from the time of the murders until he departed for the test has been aired on PBS with experts....

Geeze

Recall the two accused Burmese were not the first suspects arrested for the murders.

2014-09-17

Surat Thani police yesterday arrested a British tourist after he was suspected to have connection with the deaths of two fellow Britons in Koh Tao off Surat Thani coast.

Police identified the British back packer as Christopher Alanvare.

Police said they arrested him after employees of a resort on the beach told police that Mr Christopher was seen strolling near the scene where the two British tourists were killed on the night of September 14.

Besides they also found a significant evidence which is a blood stain on his clothes.

Police said Christopher urgently left the popular diving paradise on the first ferry to the mainland the next day after the murder was discovered.

So convinced that Chris was guilty, the police chief announced that the murders were about to be brought to justice. Prayut followed with a statement that no Thai would commit such a crime. Then the "evidence" failed to implicate Chris and the police had to actually begin an investigation in earnst.

Wasn't this the point where the RTP had "allegedly" planted the shirt in this guy's bags?

All adds to the credibility of the RTP huh? How will JD and Aleg and the rest of the shill "thicket" spin this?

Planted shirt? Huh?

Oh and I forgot - what was it that led the police to these two suspects in the first place, ...?

Answer: From the first minutes, Thai officials were frantically trying to nail this on Burmese migrants. The first head cop followed the evidence (what a surprising concept in Thailand!) and it led to the brother and son of the Headman being prime suspects. However, there was too much pressure from Bkk to nail Burmese, so the head cop was yanked off the case, and we know what ensued.

There were several sets of suspects. All were cleared.

They rest is just garbage to promote your agenda..

Re; the DNA trail: People talk about the possibility of 'planting' evidence, as well as destroying or creating it. While those are possibilities, methinks the most likely and easiest way to alter evidence, is by intentionally mis- or re-labeling it. Doing that would only entail one or two high-up people with access, probably top brass. Afterwards, everyone down the line would have no choice but to accept it at face value.

That's yet another reason why it would be useful to get Brit experts involved. Next best would be re-examination of evidence by objective Thai experts, but who in Thailand is really objective, particularly if they work within the sphere of government? By definition, everyone working in government has a boss, and has to go along with what the boss wants. If a high officer provides a DNA sample to a lab technician and says, "get me the DNA typing for this" the techie is obliged to follow orders. He/she is not going to say, "excuse me sir, can I get independent verification that this sample actually came from who it purportedly came from?"

One possible scenario: At some early point in the investigation, the B2 got their DNA typed. Thai officials wanted a match with the victim. They trash the original type cards of DNA taken from Hannah, then take the B2 DNA type cards, and re-label them: "DNA taken from Hannah." I'm not saying for sure that's what happened, but it's an easy-to-implement scenario which would explain what we've been hearing. And would also explain why Brit experts are kept at arm's length, and would explain why there's so much evasiveness, by Thai officials, for re-examining the DNA trail.

More baseless speculation to fit your agenda

Having sat on an American jury- Evidence samples/DNA are logged and a chain of custody established by date, time and person. If that chain is broken- that leads the jury to wonder why and what happened. The chain of custody is an important part of any evidence. Now whether the RTP use this method is unknown to me but if they don't all evidence becomes suspect as no one knows who handled it and why. I wish we could see the actual trial transcripts.

There's no jury system in Thailand.

There's chain of custody.

I have yet to hear anyone quoting the British police as saying that they had access to. Or tested any DNA.

well now you have.

Nope

I have seen something saying that the defense says......

Only reason I can think of for your posts are purely to muddy the waters and hijack the thread with irrelevant and meaningless comments

Nothing meaningless about pointing out that the defense is making a claim and that publicly the UK police haven't corroborated it.

It will be interesting if it is true. Personally, I doubt the veracity of the claim, but it is possible.

I have yet to hear anyone quoting the British police as saying that they had access to. Or tested any DNA.

well now you have.

I have seen something saying that the defense says......

I have yet to hear anyone quoting the British police as saying that they had access to. Or tested any DNA.

Great to see that the people are starting to see what some what some posters are really like and ignoring them is the best medicine for them .

Yes, I could have responded, but what's the mileage in having a meaningless debate argument. Now the Brits are helping the defence, and if independent testing of DNA is permitted, I'm hopeful the prosecution's case will founder on the rocks of truthful disclosure.

Which Brits are helping the defense?

The story from the AP

http://bigstory.ap.org/urn:publicid:ap.org:eab0f9d26be242048e4dae7a83a9334e

Sky News - with family statements

http://news.sky.com/story/1515031/backpacker-murders-thailand-trial-to-begin

Reuters http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0PI03L20150708?irpc=932

My husband and many of my friends are fluent in English.

None studied overseas.

About 15% of my seniors (=12th grade ) are strong enough to study in regular classes in the US.

Another 40% or so could be in classes in the US in less than a year IF exposed to English more. The rest frankly have little interest. They can function with basic stuff but not complex thinking in a foreign language )

Your students are far ahead of mine if the numbers are right. I'm in Chiang Rai which isn't really touristy yet.

Each year the enthusiasm for learning English from students seems to be increasing though, so I hope it's a positive trend.

Thankfully the trial begins.

The 2 Burmese defendants get their chance to present a defense.

The prosecution gets to making its case.

The judges will decide on the merits. Then likely it'll go on to an appeals court.