jdinasia

confessions came through the pancake man they are not legit

confessions came after they were beaten threatened with drowniir and had plastic bags put over their head

even alqueda confesses when that happens

when they have a lawyer all they do is confirm to the lawyer that they confessed but as soon as the pancake theater was out of the room they immediately said they were tortured

confessions are as bogus as seeing those boys are involved in the murders

The confessions to the police will probably not be admissible in court.

The first lawyer and the HRC commissioner can be called to testify about the confessions made to them. (not the roti vendor- the lawyer and the HRC commissioner didn't use the roti vendor for translation)

Yet there were 2 other confessions. To the lawyer (public statements) and to the HRC commissioner.

The mobile phone ties everything together.

Not admitted evidence. Rumour and speculation. Hearsay.

Nope - direct statements made to the press is admissible in Thailand. The HRC commissioner 's statement regarding the 2 Burmese defendants confessions also admissible.

What is not admissible are claims like blunt force trauma can never cause lacerations.

The case could be thrown out. Then again, the case has enough to work with to go forward in all likelihood.

DNA

The defendants' lawyer statement.

The HRC commissioner

The Burmese who had the phone.

DNA................ No independent testing done.

The defendants' lawyer statement........... Obtained under duress and after torture

The HRC commissioner.................... Obtained under duress and after torture.

The Burmese who had the phone.................. Who have been paid to lie.

So their lawyer and the HRC tortured them into confession?

By the way, the torture allegations are that one of them claims to have been hit four times, which apparently didn't leave any marks, the other one didn't mention any such "torture".

As for paying to lie, it is the defense team and the men on trial that have admitted to having the phone since the day of the murders.

There was never a confession in a language understood by the RTP. It is a 3rd party, hearsay confession

The cell phone caper is a farce

Yet there were 2 other confessions. To the lawyer (public statements) and to the HRC commissioner.

The mobile phone ties everything together.

The case could be thrown out. Then again, the case has enough to work with to go forward in all likelihood.

DNA

The defendants' lawyer statement.

The HRC commissioner

The Burmese who had the phone.

DNA................ No independent testing done.

The defendants' lawyer statement........... Obtained under duress and after torture

The HRC commissioner.................... Obtained under duress and after torture.

The Burmese who had the phone.................. Who have been paid to lie.

So their lawyer and the HRC tortured them into confession?

By the way, the torture allegations are that one of them claims to have been hit four times, which apparently didn't leave any marks, the other one didn't mention any such "torture".

As for paying to lie, it is the defense team and the men on trial that have admitted to having the phone since the day of the murders.

OK, you conveniently decline to comment on the independent testing of the DNA.

Let's rephrase items 2 and 3:- The statements obtained under duress and torture that the defendant's lawyer, and HRC commissioner have/have seen/have access to.

Anyway, the statements should be disregarded by the court anyway, regardless of whether they were under duress or torture, as the defendants didn't have legal representation present when the statements were taken. (another b@#$%^p by the RTP)

Re the phone, I believe there is still quite a bit of controversy over the phone - was it in "their" possession (a jointly owned phone?) or was the one that was "found" in the garden area next to their house?

Nope -

The first lawyer and the HRC commissioner both stated that the 2 Burmese defendants told them (not told the police)

There's only controversy in your mind regarding the phone.

DNA issue will be decided in court

(as will all the rest)

Does Work Permit work the same as DL?

Yes, in fact logic dictates it should only be WP holders who get Thai rates as these are the only foreigner's paying income tax in Thailand, and thus contributing to the upkeep of the parks via their tax, a DL means nothing, as a tourist can get one, so this shouldn't be used as a measure of getting the Thai rate or not and its most certainly not a measure of " residency "

I've worked and paid taxes here for almost 20 years. Now I'm retired, but spend money everyday and therefore pay VAT.

The driver's licence rule makes perfect sense.

Not to mention the tax drivers pay on fuel etc!

Excise tax is paid by even people who ride in taxis, it is not income tax.

This doesn't change one little thing on the ground in Jerusalem. It does better define presidential powers.

Of course Israel demonizers will spin this as a great victory. Somehow I don't see how this brings their goal of ending Israel any closer.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Every thing that restricts Israeli claims to more and more land affects life on the ground.

The Vatican recognizing Israel affects life on the ground. US decisions regarding passports issued to US citizens born in Jerusalem affects life on the ground.

The continued condemnation of settlements in occupied territory affects life on the ground.

Israel is continuing to isolate itself.

I fail to see discussing whether or not the 2 accused are innocent or not has any real relevance to the problem

the problem as I see it is that the whole issue from beginning to end has been handled so ineptly by the police, that it breaches almost all the norms for presentation of evidence and handling of a serious crime....the only conclusion one can reasonably come to is that ANY court case is so flawed that it has to be thrown out.

in other words guilty or not the trial should never take place for these guys and probably anyone else.

Thanks to the handling of this case.

And the Judge assigned to the case might answer the above objection as follows: These horrible crimes took place on a remote island accessible only by boat or helicopter with a limited police force on site. They and those who followed shortly thereafter did the best job that they could under difficult circumstances.

Objection overruled.

In which case, guilty - signed, sealed and delivered! "a remote island accessible only by boat or helicopter" - Irrelevant where the crime took place. "A limited Police Force" - They are (should be) trained to do the most basic of preliminary investigative tasks, like securing the crime scene, and was the senior officer on the case not transferred/promoted after the PM said the police had done a wonderful job? "Under difficult circumstances" - mainly of their own making by having to repudiate previous statements, and having to represent their "perfect" case to the prosecution time and time again, not checking certain CTTV footage because it was "private property" (It's a dual murder and rape case, so private property my a**e!!!!) The list goes on and on, so basically, yes :- "the whole issue from beginning to end has been handled so ineptly by the police, that it breaches almost all the norms for presentation of evidence and handling of a serious crime....the only conclusion one can reasonably come to is that ANY court case is so flawed that it has to be thrown out."

The case could be thrown out. Then again, the case has enough to work with to go forward in all likelihood.

DNA

The defendants' lawyer statement.

The HRC commissioner

The Burmese who had the phone.

So you believe an unfair trial is going to place even before the trial takes place.

Yes ... by Western, first world standards, I would say it is almost certain.

Didn't you say that the 2 Burmese defendants would be dead already, in the thread about the first hearing being moved to December 26th?

Sub-judice - apparently doesn't apply here. It is not universal in the West. Apparently not even the UK government thinks Sub-judice applies in Thailand

CIFS -- http://www.cifs.moj.go.th/eng/index.php/2013-07-03-08-06-04/vision-mission

Many posters have commented on the fact that the beach (supposed) crime scene was accessed by people not directly responsible for investigating these horrific murders. rape and mutilation.

What intrigues me is the collection of forensic evidence and it's likely significance in the prosecution's case against the B2. My understanding , as a layman is that if DNA is used as a 'cornerstone' in this trial, there has to be a strictly controlled/recorded chain of responsibility from the point of gathering the evidence right through to the submission of evidence in court.

I think the prosecution might have a considerable problem with DNA evidence, not only from the fact that the (supposed) crime scene was corrupted by outsiders, but also by the published statement by Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunand (Head of Thai Forensic Institute) who lambasted the RTP for the inept way they handled the collection of forensic evidence. IMHO her comments should be used by the defence lawyers in support of their case.

For those of you who feel the impulse to mock K. Pornthip, don't forget that this thread is about the Koh Tao murders and not GT200 'bomb detectors'.

Furthermore, K. Pornthip was appointed to her present position at the Thai Forensic Institute by the current government.

Pornthip has severely damaged her reputation supporting the Army's purchase of the dowsing rods.

If she confirms that the 2 Burmese defendants are the killers, the conspiracy theorists will be crying foul

Crazy. Like a goal keeper being dropped because he missed a penalty in a shootout. Sorry you bought some dowsing rods so have no idea about DNA.

Lets hope the prosecution use this reason as their reasoning to keep her away from the case.

mind you there is British DNA expert on the case now, so dousing rods may not have to be shown in court to prove someone knows nothing about DNA.

Try again. Sorry, you claim to be a scientist, but claimed to be able to make dowsing rods work ( scientifically)..... You did so in support of the cost spent by the military. The same people who appointed you.

Now why would the conspiracy theorists object if she found that the 2 Burmese defendants are guilty based on DNA?

Does Work Permit work the same as DL?

Yes, in fact logic dictates it should only be WP holders who get Thai rates as these are the only foreigner's paying income tax in Thailand, and thus contributing to the upkeep of the parks via their tax, a DL means nothing, as a tourist can get one, so this shouldn't be used as a measure of getting the Thai rate or not and its most certainly not a measure of " residency "

Your logic is not verry logical.

I have no work permit, but I pay tax on everything I buy plus tax on the intrest of my bankaccount (that's income tax).

Yermanee

"income tax "

Nope - you don't qualify just for being in Thailand. That includes people married to Thais

If you are covered by social security, you are paying for it.

Strangely people are still ignoring that in the center of the selfie universe, on a tourist island nobody can put the people Boomerangutang is accusing on the island that night.


Not one of the inhabitants, not one of the tourists, absolutely nobody has come forward.

.... in your opinion.

Not opinion.

Not one has come forward.

Again, no facts to substantiate this. Mere speculation.

Cannot prove a negative other than the fact that there are no reports of anyone placing him on the island. No pictures. No press statements that were not later refuted.


No foreigners have come forward from the safety of their own country....

Nada zilch nothing

But you stated it as a fact. Unless you know what evidence both the police have and the defence have then it is not a fact but merely your decidedly one sided opinion.

Something you have accused others of ad nauseum.

Many posters have commented on the fact that the beach (supposed) crime scene was accessed by people not directly responsible for investigating these horrific murders. rape and mutilation.

What intrigues me is the collection of forensic evidence and it's likely significance in the prosecution's case against the B2. My understanding , as a layman is that if DNA is used as a 'cornerstone' in this trial, there has to be a strictly controlled/recorded chain of responsibility from the point of gathering the evidence right through to the submission of evidence in court.

I think the prosecution might have a considerable problem with DNA evidence, not only from the fact that the (supposed) crime scene was corrupted by outsiders, but also by the published statement by Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunand (Head of Thai Forensic Institute) who lambasted the RTP for the inept way they handled the collection of forensic evidence. IMHO her comments should be used by the defence lawyers in support of their case.

For those of you who feel the impulse to mock K. Pornthip, don't forget that this thread is about the Koh Tao murders and not GT200 'bomb detectors'.

Furthermore, K. Pornthip was appointed to her present position at the Thai Forensic Institute by the current government.

Pornthip has severely damaged her reputation supporting the Army's purchase of the dowsing rods.

If she confirms that the 2 Burmese defendants are the killers, the conspiracy theorists will be crying foul

Predictably, you chose to ignore the penultimate sentence of my post! Obviously she wasn't discredited enough since she was appointed to her present position by the current government. K. Pornthip has already stated her opinion as to the validity of the crime scene forensic evidence, so your last comment is strange to say the least. It's always possible, of course that she might make a gigantic 'U-turn', similar to that which the RTP took when they dismissed the strong evidence they had against the KT VIPs in the early days of their investigation.

BTW - she stated that trained crime scene investigators should have collected the evidence. She didn't remark about the evidence itself.

Strangely people are still ignoring that in the center of the selfie universe, on a tourist island nobody can put the people Boomerangutang is accusing on the island that night.

Not one of the inhabitants, not one of the tourists, absolutely nobody has come forward.

.... in your opinion.

Not opinion.

Not one has come forward.

Again, no facts to substantiate this. Mere speculation.

Cannot prove a negative other than the fact that there are no reports of anyone placing him on the island. No pictures. No press statements that were not later refuted.

No foreigners have come forward from the safety of their own country....

Nada zilch nothing

Many posters have commented on the fact that the beach (supposed) crime scene was accessed by people not directly responsible for investigating these horrific murders. rape and mutilation.

What intrigues me is the collection of forensic evidence and it's likely significance in the prosecution's case against the B2. My understanding , as a layman is that if DNA is used as a 'cornerstone' in this trial, there has to be a strictly controlled/recorded chain of responsibility from the point of gathering the evidence right through to the submission of evidence in court.

I think the prosecution might have a considerable problem with DNA evidence, not only from the fact that the (supposed) crime scene was corrupted by outsiders, but also by the published statement by Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunand (Head of Thai Forensic Institute) who lambasted the RTP for the inept way they handled the collection of forensic evidence. IMHO her comments should be used by the defence lawyers in support of their case.

For those of you who feel the impulse to mock K. Pornthip, don't forget that this thread is about the Koh Tao murders and not GT200 'bomb detectors'.

Furthermore, K. Pornthip was appointed to her present position at the Thai Forensic Institute by the current government.

Pornthip has severely damaged her reputation supporting the Army's purchase of the dowsing rods.

If she confirms that the 2 Burmese defendants are the killers, the conspiracy theorists will be crying foul

Strangely people are still ignoring that in the center of the selfie universe, on a tourist island nobody can put the people Boomerangutang is accusing on the island that night.

Not one of the inhabitants, not one of the tourists, absolutely nobody has come forward.

.... in your opinion.

Not opinion.

Not one has come forward.

Strangely people are still ignoring that in the center of the selfie universe, on a tourist island nobody can put the people Boomerangutang is accusing on the island that night.

Not one of the inhabitants, not one of the tourists, absolutely nobody has come forward.

Strangely, when I attended tests, and when I have taken tests here no books, bags etc were allowed. Just as strangely, my books etc are usually in my car, or under the seat of my bike.

But it's easier to believe that a nefarious conspiracy of all the police on the island (7)

And all the police and investigators who later went to the island...

And all of the people who live on the island....

And all of the foreigners who were on the island....

And all of the top brass in Thailand....

Are colluding....

If the video shows Nomsod leaving the premises (looking debonair, with no books or pack or papers, btw - going to class? ha, that's funny.)

......the same camera should also show when he entered the premises. Is that footage available? ....or perhaps there's a slight gap in the footage, ....shades of Nixon and his clumsy editing of the White House tapes. A week is a long time, if some computer whiz wanted to alter CCTV footage. Have cops interviewed the person who cuts Nomsod's hair in Bangkok? Have they spoken with the person(s) Nomsod or his lawyer would go to - if they needed some digital things fixed? Others that cops should have interviewed: Nomsod's mother, his girlfriend, his mates in the apartment, his teacher, the apartment manager, his schoolmates, and, any security guards in the vicinity. Yet more of the 1,000 basic things Thai investigators either didn't do, or screwed up. That '1,000 Things....' list may have to be upgraded to: '2,000 Things Which Thai Cops Didn't Do Regarding The Crime'

Now I'm expecting JD to shout again about 'defamation of character' lawsuits. ....and endless conspiracty theories. It's a good thing AleG and the rest of RTP echoers aren't working as detectives. On the plus side: Their jobs would be easy: they'd just accept at face value whatever the top brass declare, and not do any investigative work. On the down side: such ineptitude shortchanges the victims' families and the general public - because an inept or purposefully flawed investigation ensure dangerous criminals walk freely all over town - without a care of getting caught.

"Others that cops should have interviewed: Nomsod's mother, his girlfriend, his mates in the apartment, his teacher, the apartment manager, his schoolmates, and, any security guards in the vicinity."

And you know they didn't interview any of those people because...?

"It's a good thing AleG and the rest of RTP echoers aren't working as detectives. On the plus side: Their jobs would be easy: they'd just accept at face value whatever the top brass declare,"

If there is evidence for it, yes; now, how about you provide any evidence for what you claim? The altering of the footage, the police cover-up, any evidence that Nomsod was implicated on the murders, or do you expect people to take your theories at face value?

Anyone can come up with inane why-didn't-they and what-ifs ( "Have cops interviewed the person who cuts Nomsod's hair in Bangkok?" ), it doesn't make any of if true or relevant.

What is not known is the extent of the investigation. What is known is that prior to his promotion ; Panya announced that 2 people briefly looked at had been cleared.

The court case will be soon. (note - some of the people crying about how much time it took to begin the court case were screaming about the December 26th date when they thought it was beginning then - December 26th was only the first pre-trial hearing)

More conspiracy theories, and more defamation above

Oh you are a self appointed judge now to simply state something is defamation.

This thread would be a lot more interesting and informative if some of those that blindly believe the RTP didnt comment.

If we want to giggle at incompetence it is easier to just get it directly from the source, the investigation team.

Nope, Thai law is quite clear on what defamation is.

In fact, I dislike the use of criminal defamation laws but they exist here. (note - I am actually in Thailand and that's where I am referring to)

More conspiracy theories, and more defamation above

Have you ever heard the expression "preaching to the choir"?

LOL

I just can't be bothered to continue beating down the conspiracy theories.

It's worth remembering that defamation is both a civil and criminal crime in Thailand.

Everyone here has the right to post on here as they see fit subject to the powers that be. But sometimes I wish some poster would take his personal moral code which supersedes the laws of any country including, obviously, this one, and dwell in the realm of the upper stratosphere to which most of us are not party.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/773084-dna-results-from-ko-tao-village-heads-son-dont-match-traces-on-slain-british-tourists/page-92#entry8739063

And yet he got the facts wrong about Saudi Arabia... A "moral code" based on fallacies.