jdinasia

LOL -

Still pushing conspiracy theories.

The case isn't in the hands of the RTP. It's in the hands of the prosecution. The coroner's report is strong enough. The alibi of the 2 Burmese killers isn't worth anything. The witnesses against the 2 Burmese defendants is strong. It places the phone in the hands of the killers. The "we drank 3 beers over several hours and were too drunk to remember. There are 60 prosecution witnesses from the police, the DNA labs, the Burmese that were given the phone by the defendants...

Your fixation on people who have been cleared from involvement just isn't going to be an issue.

The conspiracy theories just aren't going to be an issue in the trial.

You seem to know an awful lot about the prosecution's case, JD. For example, how do you know the Burmese that were (allegedly) given the phone by the defendants are to be witnesses for the prosecution? Are you in fact working for the prosecution?

Because it was part of the first pre-trial hearing.

I already have a full time job.

Re post 891 from JDinasia -

Blimey. This man IS desperate for the B2 to go down for these crimes. And so many many posts from him. I'm beginning to get suspicious now. Doesn't feel good.

Get as suspicious as you want. I am far from desperate for the 2 Burmese defendants to go down for the rape and murders. I do think that they are guilty but that's for the court to decide.

Some posters here continuously drag out conspiracy theories that have been debunked, and "seem desperate for" people who have been cleared" to go down for these crimes.

They ignore the request from the victim's families that speculation cease until after the trial, and just pump out theory after theory.

Then there's the others who think that the 2 Burmese defendants are involved in the crime, but are just playing games with it. They are as bad as the one's so desperately fixated with individuals who have been cleared, simply due to their intellectual dishonesty.

Just because you can come up with some imaginary scenario it doesn't mean it has anything to do with reality, you just skipped the if, the who, the why and went straight into the (theoretical) how.

So, you don't like the scenarios I paint? Awww, I'm crushed. Or maybe you don't like me sharing personal recollections of conversations I've had with Thai friends? BTW, what about your scenario, with Mon and his cop friend pursuing Sean, in order to shore up the bastions of justice. Was that a joke?

Here's a clue: When crime investigators are on a case, they'd do well to use their brain cells. Part of that process is to think up possible scenarios, and then go looking for leads and/or evidence. The other side of that, is to look for clues and evidence and pertinent things certain 'people of interest' say - and then pursue those leads. I know it's a lot easier to be a Thai-style investigator who just hears what his superior officier wants to find, and then put on the blinders and looks only for clues which point to what the boss wants.

It's good that RTP investigators don't work under me, because I'd have them crying for mercy after a half day. They'd be pleading with me not to make them work or think so hard. They'd be banding together - trying to find ways to bring their prior superior officer back. The one who allowed them to lounge around all day, doing practically nothing. Who allowed them to put their brains on standby, without a creative thought. Some types of people much prefer to have a boss who just tells them what to do: connect Dot A with Dots B & C, and don't think about any other dots.

The problem with the scenarios you paint is that they are based on nothing but speculation, prejudice and demonstrably false "facts" and when proven to be wrong you just pretend nothing happened and peddle the same debunked claptrap all over again.

Yes, what about what I said about Mon and Sean? I asked you to try and show me to be wrong or on anything that I wrote (post #825) and your did the usual Brave Sir Robin impersonation. So yes, what about it?

While you are at it you may try to face posts #134 and #749.

Finally, do everyone a favour and keep your egotistical fantasies to yourself.

As usual, you have nothing to add to the discussion, so are left with what you're best at: trying to find dirt on how other posters are presenting their ideas. And suprise! JD agrees with you. I know enough about human nature to stongly suspect that Mon and his cop friend, when chasing and cornering Sean, weren't trying to pursue truth and justice. If Sean hadn't taken that photo, while he was cowering on the floor, scared shitless (after being threatened with death, as he believably asserted), then RTP echoers would be saying, "cnspiracy theory. No one ever chased Sean. Complete fabrication." Similarly, if the bloody hoe hadn't been found at the beach, RTP echoers would probably be saying, "how do we know there were murders. It could have been David killing Hannah after rough sex, and then he ran and bashed his head against a rock in remorse."

RTP are trying so hard to cover up so many things, that they must be sorely annoyed that there are annoying issues like Running Man video, a bloody hoe, a soggy alibi CCTV from Bkk, a prime suspect who evaded police for a week, and other such stickery issues they wish would just dry up and blow away.

LOL -

Still pushing conspiracy theories.

The case isn't in the hands of the RTP. It's in the hands of the prosecution. The coroner's report is strong enough. The alibi of the 2 Burmese killers isn't worth anything. The witnesses against the 2 Burmese defendants is strong. It places the phone in the hands of the killers. The "we drank 3 beers over several hours and were too drunk to remember. There are 60 prosecution witnesses from the police, the DNA labs, the Burmese that were given the phone by the defendants...

Your fixation on people who have been cleared from involvement just isn't going to be an issue.

The conspiracy theories just aren't going to be an issue in the trial.

So, bank records don't matter?

With that reasoning would phone records matter?

I like watching people tear down their own earlier arguments

Are you in the real world?......... Phone records would go a long way to solving this case by competent investigators!

Why would a person the conspiracy theorists think is smart enough to hide money, use a phone associated with themselves?

So, bank records don't matter?

With that reasoning would phone records matter?

I like watching people tear down their own earlier arguments

So baseless accusations then, just assume there's something fishy going on and work your way from there.

So much for innocent until proven guilty...

Baseless accusations?

Has money changed hands to alter the course of the investigation? Nobody has proof of that but there is enough concern documented in the investigation that it may have and so of course those sorts of questions can legitimately be asked and talked about. Unless of course you believe the RTP hook line and sinker. Fortunately most people do not and thats only one of the reasons the FCO cited the concerns on corruption in this case.

Yes, baseless accusations, you said so yourself "Nobody has proof of that".

The FCO cited concerns over allegations of corruption:

"we are very concerned by the allegations of corruption"

You forgot the "allegations" part, and I don't think it was an oversight.

The FCO echoed the allegations of corruption some people have made, so you are using circular logic here; some people make allegations of corruption, the FCO mentions those allegations and then, possibly the same people that made the allegations in the first place, use that as validation to lend support to their allegations.

Circular logic, simple, comforting, wrong.

Get a life AleG

Answer me one question AleG, if it were your kid who got their head bashed in, would you be happy with the way the case has been handled..?...Now be honest.......

The families have made a public statement via the FCO.

They indicated that there's more to the investigation than you know. They indicated that the trial should proceed. They asked directly that public speculation stop.

That's what we know.

Well in fairness they were told what the RTP has told them. Its what they haven't been told that concerns me.

It also seems to concern the RTP and the Judge as they are making it ectremely difficult to actually ontain the evidence.

Funny how the victims parents have been told certain things but defence have not.

No.

In fairness they were told what the UK police told them, plus whatever else that they learned from the people who were traveling with their kids.

We don't know that they were told anything different than the defense.

The discovery process in Thailand is a no-way street.

So baseless accusations then, just assume there's something fishy going on and work your way from there.

So much for innocent until proven guilty...

Baseless accusations?

Has money changed hands to alter the course of the investigation? Nobody has proof of that but there is enough concern documented in the investigation that it may have and so of course those sorts of questions can legitimately be asked and talked about. Unless of course you believe the RTP hook line and sinker. Fortunately most people do not and thats only one of the reasons the FCO cited the concerns on corruption in this case.

Yes, baseless accusations, you said so yourself "Nobody has proof of that".

The FCO cited concerns over allegations of corruption:

"we are very concerned by the allegations of corruption"

You forgot the "allegations" part, and I don't think it was an oversight.

The FCO echoed the allegations of corruption some people have made, so you are using circular logic here; some people make allegations of corruption, the FCO mentions those allegations and then, possibly the same people that made the allegations in the first place, use that as validation to lend support to their allegations.

Circular logic, simple, comforting, wrong.

Get a life AleG

Answer me one question AleG, if it were your kid who got their head bashed in, would you be happy with the way the case has been handled..?...Now be honest.......

The families have made a public statement via the FCO.

They indicated that there's more to the investigation than you know. They indicated that the trial should proceed. They asked directly that public speculation stop.

That's what we know.

From the list in the OP that's just about every single service from Kasikorn.

So basically all Kasikorn customers are with out any banking services for a whole weekend. Even ATM withdrawals and in store card payments.

Amazing!

It must be a pretty critical update to take all their banking services offline for such a period of time.

I used to work for RBS in the UK and any major updates to the system that affected multiple departments were usually staggered and never offline for that length time.

Updates by RBS were normally made from 11pm on Sunday evening to 5am on a Monday morning, traditionally the quietest times for customers using banking services.

Still, this is Thailand so I know better than to try and even contemplate understanding what might be going on here.

What's going on, maybe I can help. The powers that be, in Thailand, are doing the best they can. What are you doing to help? Bank is closed for two days. Not life threatening or apocalyptic. just brings out the malcontents and their comments. ...lets the bigots speak. Thank you, TV.

You think you can help? Amazing.

Bring your latest version of banking software to K-Bank HQ on Friday afternoon and be prepared to spend the weekend installing and validating. K-Bank will give you a medal.

Much of the work will be done by contractors.

Groan.

More pages and pages of some earnest people wasting time and energy trying to do the impossible: convince these 2 guys that their theories about this case are no better supported than anyone else's, or less so (as I think most of us believe, with very good cause), or even engage them in an honest debate. Neither is interested in finding the truth, that should be obvious after months of this. They're merely interested in pushing their agenda and sidestepping or otherwise not responding directly to any statements that poke holes in their own stories.

It's like arguing with your fundamentalist Christian cousin; they're true believers, and nothing's going to change that. I lean towards the B2 being innocent, but am smart and candid enough to admit that I don't KNOW anything about this with certainty. These two guys have no better info than any of us, but they're willing to spend thousands of hours acting like they alone know the truth about this case.

So I've said it before and I'll say it again:

They should present their case in one go, if it's so rock solid (I'm not holding my breath for that).

The vast majority of people populating these threads who disagree with them should use their time and energy more productively: put all the info out there elsewhere on the internet (there is a website for that, can anyone share the URL?), and more importantly IMO engage with people in and outside Thailand who can have some influence: try get in touch with some of these friends of David and Hannah's; send information to the Thai media (MUCH more useful than arguing with these two guys); try track down Sean in Italy and see if he'll start talking, or anything but waste time here.

The fact that these two guys have posted tons of opinions here but I have not seen either express the slightest bit of sympathy for the victims in any of their thousands of posts about this murder should by itself speak volumes (granted, I've got both on ignore so only skim over what others quote, but I challenge anyone to quote me some such sympathy from either). Let them yell into the wind, or better yet into a vacuum!

The lack of self awareness in this post is astounding.

In case PaPiPuPePo someday musters enough, shall we say, moral fiber to stop hiding here goes the answer.

"More pages and pages of some earnest people wasting time and energy trying to do the impossible: convince these 2 guys that their theories about this case are no better supported than anyone else's, or less so (as I think most of us believe, with very good cause), or even engage them in an honest debate. Neither is interested in finding the truth, that should be obvious after months of this. They're merely interested in pushing their agenda and sidestepping or otherwise not responding directly to any statements that poke holes in their own stories."

No better supported than anyone else's... yes, just say it, don't bother to support the assertion (ironic), then again that's why placing people in ignore is all about."

I have done nothing but contest and disprove the "theories" of those people you say have an equal standing; case in point, post #749 were I disproved, with citations one more of Boomerangutang completel unsupported assertions. I could count dozens and dozens of similar posts but PaPiPuPePo wouldn't know, because he rather hide them from view, decide they are full of unsupported assertions and call that having a honest debate.

You see, I said something and I supported it... no, you don't see, I forgot the part about hiding.

As for the last point from that paragraph, Boomerangutang, once again, completely fails to even try to defend his claims, funny you don't see that but can tell from not reading my posts that is me the one that don't bother to support an assertion, now that is ironic.

"It's like arguing with your fundamentalist Christian cousin; they're true believers, and nothing's going to change that. I lean towards the B2 being innocent, but am smart and candid enough to admit that I don't KNOW anything about this with certainty. These two guys have no better info than any of us, but they're willing to spend thousands of hours acting like they alone know the truth about this case."

Again, making unsupported claims (irony reaching critical levels), as for your last point, again every time I challenge one of your fellow "theorists" they either pretend not to notice, divert into some other point or just outright resort to repeating the same demonstrably wrong arguments over and over again.

"So I've said it before and I'll say it again:

They should present their case in one go, if it's so rock solid (I'm not holding my breath for that)."

I don't have case to present, the case is going to be presented in court in a few weeks. It may seem unimaginable to you but I don't feel the need to engage in speculative games as others do here because... hang on to that thought for a moment.

"The vast majority of people populating these threads who disagree with them should use their time and energy more productively: put all the info out there elsewhere on the internet (there is a website for that, can anyone share the URL?), and more importantly IMO engage with people in and outside Thailand who can have some influence: try get in touch with some of these friends of David and Hannah's; send information to the Thai media (MUCH more useful than arguing with these two guys); try track down Sean in Italy and see if he'll start talking, or anything but waste time here."

Again, your main point is to avoid your views to be challenged, in the name of honest debating I suppose.

"The fact that these two guys have posted tons of opinions here but I have not seen either express the slightest bit of sympathy for the victims in any of their thousands of posts about this murder should by itself speak volumes (granted, I've got both on ignore so only skim over what others quote, but I challenge anyone to quote me some such sympathy from either). Let them yell into the wind, or better yet into a vacuum!"

How dare you? I'll answer that, you dare because you hide from having to defend your views and accusations. I, and Jdinasia have been the only people here that have consistently called to respect the wishes of the families in regards to baseless speculation in social media, here's what they said about you and the armchair detectives you are here to defend:

The family of Hannah Witheridge, who was tragically murdered alongside David Miller on a beach in Thailand last month, have "begged" for graphic pictures of her corpse to be removed from the web.

They are "traumatised" by "senseless" photos of the crime scene, they say, which show her body wrapped in blue plastic on the Koh Tao beach.

"We beg that Hannah and David are afforded privacy and dignity through the removal of these pointless and insensitive reminders," her family said.

Our thoughts are also with the Ware family and any other innocents that have been hurt by harassment and wrongful accusation.

In the meantime however, we ask that the speculative theories circulating on social media are not taken as fact. These interpretations are based on incomplete evidence and substantial conjecture.

Further speculation should be put aside until all the evidence is made public and appropriate conclusions can be drawn.

You have the unmitigated gall to not only claim that I have no sympathy for the families of the victims (and that specifically based on not reading what I have said in the matter), but directly call for their wishes to be ignored and continue not only with the damaging speculation but also to drag the victim's friends into your games.

No wonder you hide from having your views challenged, they are indefensible.

No one on here as far as I'm aware posted graphic pictures of the victims. Wasn't it one of the RTP cops that did that? If the RTP had have had any professionalism about the handling of these crimes then the press would never have been allowed down onto the beach to take the 'senseless' photos in the first place. If I were one of the parents I would be suing the scum bag that took the graphic images (which I have not seen and have no desire to) and circulated them on social media. No point in trying to hang that on TV posters who, in the majority, want justice for the wretched parents.

People here posted links (which were removed) and detailed descriptions on where to find those pictures.

The fact that these two guys have posted tons of opinions here but I have not seen either express the slightest bit of sympathy for the victims in any of their thousands of posts about this murder should by itself speak volumes (granted, I've got both on ignore so only skim over what others quote, but I challenge anyone to quote me some such sympathy from either). Let them yell into the wind, or better yet into a vacuum!

Please ignore me as well since you can not handle to see a case from both sides of the coin.

We all have sympathies for the victims , that is not a part of this discussion at all. We all have our opinions , this is not North Korea where you're not allowed to discuss freely.

I have given the Burmese guys a 50/50 chance to prove they are innocent. We will find out in court, please stop trying to make some of us look like having no sympathies with the victims.

And please but me on ignore if you like.

Thank you so much for giving me permission to ignore you. So generous.

Your accusation towards me (" you can not handle to see a case from both sides of the coin") is ad hominem and unfounded. I have never demonstrated such an inability. I haven't paid too much attention to your generally short messages because, frankly, IIRC they've mostly been low-wattage rehashing or re-stating of what the hang-the-B2 coterie tries to hammer home on every page; methinks you're projecting your own inability on to me. My general impression of your posts is you have an obvious bias towards thinking them guilty, though maybe not obvious to yourself.

The part of my post you enlarged mentions two people--I think you well know who I mean. Also, it says "I have not seen." Rather than make unfounded assertions to the contrary, why don't you bolster your contention by providing one example of such? Since they've spewed tens of thousands of words, that shouldn't be too difficult should those statements exist. Good luck though.

BTW, the repeated "please do this/that" is pretty passive-agressive you know, just FYI. And again, I've said TWO, not SOME. Try addressing what people actually write.

You give the Burmese guys a 50/50 chance to prove they're innocent isn't, I think, what you mean, which would be a 50/50 chance _of proving_ they're innocent. Subtle difference in English but it changes the meaning. I've gathered from your posts you're not a native speaker though (not that many native speakers get that distinction either).

"We'll find out in court" is exactly the kind of claptrap I consider unworthy of responding to. Your faith in the utter integrity of the Thai court system is naive, at best.

Sharpen your wit if you can and try again.

Apparently the answer is no, Balo

If the father of the dead boys wants justice perhaps he should start at the beginning and read the autopsy report to learn exactly how and when his sons died. Or could it be true that there were no autopsies carried out and the bodies were buried with indecent haste? One would have thought that fragments of Israeli munitions pulled from the bodies would be just the sort of evidence that would confirm the Palestinian version of events.

Some of our esteemed members seem very keen on Israel publishing everything that was recorded, surely they would equally ask the Hamas officials to at least publish the autopsy reports?

I think the father is well aware how they died. Numerous journalists reported them being blown to smitherines.

Numerous journalists have lied about Israel in the past and will no doubt continue to do so. Here is an article about the Mohammad Al Durrah hoax.

http://ukmediawatch.org/2012/02/16/another-blow-against-propagandists-still-clinging-to-the-al-durrah-hoax/

I believe a documentary is being considered by the man who painstakingly examined the available press footage for the Bakr children's deaths, though this thread will be no doubt be ancient history by then.

The IDF isn't denying they killed the kids.

The sole remit of the IDF investigation was to establish why or not Israeli troops had acted illegally. As for what they 'admit', let me remind you that at first they admitted responsibility for the death of Mohammad Al Durrah. Pallywood enterprises are designed to not only fool the public and their press proxies , but to also fool the Israelis. So of course the Israelis targeted the area where the boys were apparently killed and at the approximate time they died.

With the Mohammad Al Dura case there was no autopsy and no body to be found. There were to my knowledge no,autopsies carried out on the four Bakr boys. This is not a mere academic point or unwarranted pedantry it is the very corner stone of justice presuming innocence unless guilt is proven.

Really?


This is where you go with this? Israel commits a war crime. They admit to killing the boys and you try and blame someone else?

You start off with a false premise, Israel has been convicted of no war crime here, their internal investigation concludes the same, which I agree with.

I can't be sure of anything else. The children, one or all four may have been killed,by Israeli munitions. I state maybe because press conclusions are not always correct, as was the case with a whole family wiped out during operation cast lead which was originally blamed on Israel turned out to be due to a stray Hamas rocket.

When this thread was first introduced I had no reason to suspect the deaths of the boys were due to anything but Israeli fire. I posted the links which made me question this. There are several inconsistencies in press accounts and eye witness statements, so different as to be irreconcilable.

The Al Dura incident was only mentioned tangentially to demonstrate there is a precedent to the theory I put forward. This is the last I will say on the matter unless some fresh evidence emerges.

If the father of the dead boys wants justice perhaps he should start at the beginning and read the autopsy report to learn exactly how and when his sons died. Or could it be true that there were no autopsies carried out and the bodies were buried with indecent haste? One would have thought that fragments of Israeli munitions pulled from the bodies would be just the sort of evidence that would confirm the Palestinian version of events.

Some of our esteemed members seem very keen on Israel publishing everything that was recorded, surely they would equally ask the Hamas officials to at least publish the autopsy reports?

I think the father is well aware how they died. Numerous journalists reported them being blown to smitherines.

Numerous journalists have lied about Israel in the past and will no doubt continue to do so. Here is an article about the Mohammad Al Durrah hoax.

http://ukmediawatch.org/2012/02/16/another-blow-against-propagandists-still-clinging-to-the-al-durrah-hoax/

I believe a documentary is being considered by the man who painstakingly examined the available press footage for the Bakr children's deaths, though this thread will be no doubt be ancient history by then.

The IDF isn't denying they killed the kids.

The sole remit of the IDF investigation was to establish why or not Israeli troops had acted illegally. As for what they 'admit', let me remind you that at first they admitted responsibility for the death of Mohammad Al Durrah. Pallywood enterprises are designed to not only fool the public and their press proxies , but to also fool the Israelis. So of course the Israelis targeted the area where the boys were apparently killed and at the approximate time they died.

With the Mohammad Al Dura case there was no autopsy and no body to be found. There were to my knowledge no,autopsies carried out on the four Bakr boys. This is not a mere academic point or unwarranted pedantry it is the very corner stone of justice presuming innocence unless guilt is proven.

Sorry, but the Geneva Conventions clearly state that you have to know where your bombs are falling.

To attempt to claim self-defense because HAMAS used kids in the past as human shields doesn't meet the requirements. Israel has used kids as human shields too. Equally irrelevant when discussing rockets fired from Gaza.

I love these people that revert to the Geneva Convention.

What does it say about indiscriminate death by suicide vest and early detonation of VBIED's ?

See paragraph 2- covered there.

When discussing war crimes, what would you have people cite?

BTW - it wouldn't bother me in the least if HAMAS was brought up on war crime charges.

Both sides have committed atrocities. They deserve to be charged. Only one side, however, is occupied. It is a requirement that an occupying force protect civilians, not kill children on the beach.

Like I said. Not my argument.

Both sides need to stop the blame game, accept what has happened and move forward for the greater good.

Screaming war crimes is a useless waste of time, when it is abundantly clear that is a charge that could be levelled at both sides.

Nope, both sides need to be held accountable for the war crimes.

A bit rich, to say the least, coming from the representative of a country which has cynically used the so-called "war on terror" as a pretext to systematically undermine the democratic rights of its own citizens and attack other nations without just cause.

Feigned American concern over political freedom and human rights in Thailand should fool no-one.

What the White House really wants is a return to the palmy, freewheeling days when their billionaire proxy, Thaksin Shinawatra, presided over the Kingdom's affairs. The military-led caretaker administration, pledged to squeeze corruption and cronyism out of the system, is equally determined to keep the Oriental wolf of Wall Street from their door at any cost.

So, it's seconds out. . .

The longer a general election is delayed, the louder one can expect the howls of US-fostered international outrage to become. With an increasingly belligerent China actively seeking closer political and economic ties with Thailand, relations between the US and its diminutive but strategically important Asian allay could be about to enter a crucial new phase.

Not hardly it is a US law passed in 1961 that is withholding money from Thailand among other things.

Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 (as added by Public Law 110–161) [22 U.S.C. 2378d], and any provision of an Act making appropriations for the Department of State, foreign operations, and related programs that restricts assistance to the government of any country whose duly elected head of government is deposed by military coup or decree.

Now don't you feel better knowing the truth. Nothing to do with the White House or Thaksin. But you baiters really go the extra mile trying to change every thread into a Thaksin bash. You hoping we will just give up and you win again by stifling rational on topic discussion.

This thread is about a return to democracy not the return of Thaksin. If you want to talk about Thaksin - open another thread.

Yet the law in question doesn't end either military aid, or other aid. It prevents the sale of arms.

The US military is still working with the Thai military. USAID is still operating here. JUSMAG THAI is still up and running. The US Army is still sending ROTC cadets to help train Thai pre-cadets and RTA cadets. Arms are still coming to Thailand, although not directly from the US.

Does the US care about democracy in Thailand? Not particularly. Do they make the appropriate noises, and then carry on with the status quo? Yes.

There are a few reasons for the US attitudes. One is indeed that the state of "democracy" in Thailand under Thaksin and his proxies was a step back from the already very poor state of democracy here.

The others include the US enlightened self-interest in having Thailand as a stable ally in light of what will be happening here soon.

So.... Millions? Not really.

An amazing amount of cherry picking in the post above.

Probability of their updates going tits up ... 70%.

Fill up your mattresses.

I expect the change over to take about 6 hours. Then diagnostics and reconnecting to new data center servers to take 4 more. Leaving more than 36 hours to deal with the unexpected.

If the father of the dead boys wants justice perhaps he should start at the beginning and read the autopsy report to learn exactly how and when his sons died. Or could it be true that there were no autopsies carried out and the bodies were buried with indecent haste? One would have thought that fragments of Israeli munitions pulled from the bodies would be just the sort of evidence that would confirm the Palestinian version of events.

Some of our esteemed members seem very keen on Israel publishing everything that was recorded, surely they would equally ask the Hamas officials to at least publish the autopsy reports?

I think the father is well aware how they died. Numerous journalists reported them being blown to smitherines.

Numerous journalists have lied about Israel in the past and will no doubt continue to do so. Here is an article about the Mohammad Al Durrah hoax.

http://ukmediawatch.org/2012/02/16/another-blow-against-propagandists-still-clinging-to-the-al-durrah-hoax/

I believe a documentary is being considered by the man who painstakingly examined the available press footage for the Bakr children's deaths, though this thread will be no doubt be ancient history by then.

The IDF isn't denying they killed the kids.

You blame Hamas for indescriminate bombing but consider it ok for Israel to do the same murdering children.

Pott and kettle

You have not substantiated your claim that Israel murdered anyone. You keep insisting that the accused prove its innocence. The burden of proof in a criminal case is on the accuser(s). There has to be no reasonable doubt. You and your cadre have not supported your claims.

Oh forgot the Israel report was to apportion blame to someone else.

The ICC will deal with it but in the meantime you keep believing Hamas murdered them even though reports suggest otherwise.

Forever in denial are some and with that attitude it is no wonder the Palestinians cannot get Israel to agree to anything and little wonder the world has lost patience with them.

The IDF investigation says that the IDF killed the kids in a "tragic accident."

It is a war crime to not be sure of your target.

It is a requirement that an occupying nation protect the civilian population

Just another reason why the legacy banking system will not last long. Cryptocurrency like Bitcoin will soon begin to replace the commercial banking system as more people begin to realize its benefits and it becomes more mainstream. Less fees to use the system, less government oversight and interference and significantly more control over your assets. Don't think so? Read The Age of Cryptocurrency: How Bitcoin and Digital Money Are Challenging the Global Economic Order [Paul Vigna, Michael J. Casey]. Fiat currency will be gone before too long and the world will be better for it.

Where do bit coins come from? Apparently you can generate them from a computer. Another money for free scheme? Similar to derivatives? Rampant gambling is part of the problem in my humble opinion.

Not true. There are many sites that offer cryptocurrency that are legitimate. Like anything else- don't put all your cash in anything but the future of fiat currency is doomed and the status of the US dollar as the reserve currency in the world will soon be a thing of the past.

Yes, but what is Bitcoin backed up with? Did someone spend a lot of money and just change the name of the currency to Bitcoin? Apologies if I am ignorant but how do you make money from nothing?

Bit coins are traded on the open market. The price fluctuates based on many factors but it is the like a derivative. The underlying price is based on market factors. Fiat currencies allow governments to manipulate the exchange rate based on policy decisions not necessarily fiscal considerations. The book "Age of Cryptocurrency" explains this much better than I but I do think the future is not in fiat currency but a cyber currency.

In other words, yes. Bitcoins aren't backed up with anything.

The initial suspects (day 1) were migrant laborers. Then the Wares, Sean, footballers, Thai locals, and then back to migrant labor.

So the narrative that locals were identified from the beginning is false. They, in fact, were people of interest for a few days only.

Whether the initial suspects were migrant workers or farang is moot. Migrants are going to be pointed at in beach crimes - as a knee jerk reaction by RTP. It's like, whenever there's a coup d'etat in Thailand, the army brass immediately announce the Constitution will be re-written - it's the Thai way of thinking. The important issue is the initial PRIME SUSPECTS were Mon and Nomsod, in that order. Mon was taken by cops and questioned for 3 hours. It would be interesting to get a video or audio or written transcript of that, but it won't happen. Nomsod was declared THE prime suspect just days after the crime, and (surprise!) cops couldn't find him for additional days.

Interesting to see that this question was not answered by the guys who have the "facts". According to the Criminal Procedures Code, a warrant is needed for the search for evidence. The mass collection of DNA on the island is highly personal and intrusive. If this is where the DNA they obtained a "match" to the DNA at the scene, then my opinion is that it should be excluded from admissible evidence.

The whole time Burmese were being rounded up by the dozens, Nomsod was claiming he didn't have to give DNA. Ever since that time, Nomsod's DNA has been suspect. The press corps event (NS's DNA sample) didn't impress anyone. I file it in the same category as the reenactment: silliness personified. That's why I think the court decided to switch tracks and postpone the Defense's request to re-examine DNA. The RTP, the headman's people, and the prosecutors will continue to do all they can to obfuscate the DNA trail. Mark my words.

I am done with this topic as well. What we have are some people who thrive on the misery of two young men who are facing a death penalty. My OPINION is that it enhances their self importance and makes them feel that they actually have some "power".....

I don't think their main motivation is to nail the B2. I think it's to continue to shield the H's people any way possible. Plus, by keeping the discussions and focus on the B2's plight, it naturally diverts attention away from those who should be prime suspects. Please don't leave the topic. We need to continue to exert pressure toward a semblance of truth & justice. We may not have any overall effect, but then again, maybe we do affect the events in some small ways.

So, your whole thing hinges on those two men being THE initial prime suspects?

17 Sep 2014 "A British man has become the prime suspect for the murder of two British tourists and his arrest is imminent, a senior Thai police officer told The Telegraph on Wednesday."

Now, of course, you'll invent some other self serving excuse to explain that away.

Incidentally, just declaring things that invalidate your arguments to be "moot" doesn't cut it.

"I don't think their main motivation is to nail the B2. I think it's to continue to shield the H's people any way possible"

No, that's just paranoia speaking; try reality, it may not feel so comfortable, but it is what it is.

Strange. I am not shielding anyone.

I am not diverting attention from the actual evidence or trying to divert attention from the 2 Burmese defendants.

I also, not so strangely, don't think that there's a conspiracy to frame the defendants, who have confessed at least 3 times, who admit to being there, who put property from the crime in the hands of other people, who claim to have been so drunk after 3 beer spread out over hours that they don't remember..... ETC.

Sorry, but the Geneva Conventions clearly state that you have to know where your bombs are falling.

To attempt to claim self-defense because HAMAS used kids in the past as human shields doesn't meet the requirements. Israel has used kids as human shields too. Equally irrelevant when discussing rockets fired from Gaza.

I love these people that revert to the Geneva Convention.

What does it say about indiscriminate death by suicide vest and early detonation of VBIED's ?

See paragraph 2- covered there.

When discussing war crimes, what would you have people cite?

BTW - it wouldn't bother me in the least if HAMAS was brought up on war crime charges.

Both sides have committed atrocities. They deserve to be charged. Only one side, however, is occupied. It is a requirement that an occupying force protect civilians, not kill children on the beach.

Does anyone recall that police put bloody clothes in davids travel mates luggage?

Nope.

Didn't happen

This is not a reply it is more like a about experiences with the Tricity

We were travelling with our Tricity for 5 days doing a roundtrip to Nongkai – Chiang Kan – Loei – and up through the mountains through the Nam Nao National Park – Chumphae – Nong Bua Lamphu _ Udon and back home. The trip covered 1000km.

Originally we wanted to pass to Lao and travel up to Luang Prabang...but

over 2 hours we were running from border office to office, filling papers and had finally to accept that the Lao people do not let us in......It was a show of many, many office people doing nothing, knowing nothing and finally they said.....motorbikes with less than 250cc cannot go into Lao, big bikes would be no problem. Next time I will have to take the car. So we spent our time and our money in Thailand LoL.

We followed the Mekong up and had some really nice days in the mountains. It was spectacular and travelling out in the nature and stopping for sightseeing is easier than with a car...we will do it again.

We travelled with two bags and the total weight of the two of us was something around 160kg.

Positiv: The disk brakes, I had to brake because of a stupid dog from 80 kmh down to 30kmh in wiff and it was no problem at all. The handling on rough roads is classes better and safer than with one of the normal small bikes.

Because of the room in front it was easy to carry my wifes bag between my legs...with a PCX I would not know were to have the thing.

Negativ: With our weight the rear shocks are too weak and hit often through.

Passing a truck was always a little tricky...above 80kmh there is not much coming and with our weight more than 85 kmh go only downhill.

So I want to have the shocks changed and I as well want to have a tuneup done. The problem...I do not know any shop in the Isaan around Udon or Sakhon doing such a thing...if somebody could help I would appreciate it.

A tuneup can be done at Yamaha dealers.

You can ask around at bike shops that do racing mods but be careful about your warranty

Don't forget the larger agenda to push "war crimes" trials on Israel completely out of balance to what Hamas does, and many others much worse in the world today.

The agenda is quite clear. The agenda is to end Israel. The agenda of Hamas is to end Israel. It's in their charter. The agenda of the core leadership of the BDS movement is to end Israel. Yes, it is a fact, they ARE picking on the Jews. Israel not only MUST defend against rockets from Gaza (now re-arming and re-tunneling) but also must defend against a very organized propaganda movement to end its existence. That is the context of this kind of news story.

You know there is also an underlying RACISM against Arabs on the anti-Israel unbalanced obsession. The subtext is Gaza people are Arabs ... as the Israel demonizers would think ... we expect them to be terrorists and do war crimes and murder their own children. No war crimes trials for them. But Israel is Jews ... we expect them to be civilized.

Holding Israel accountable for their war crimes doesn't "end Israel" though it might see a few leaders and or senior politicians jailed or other penalties

Sorry, but the Geneva Conventions clearly state that you have to know where your bombs are falling.

To attempt to claim self-defense because HAMAS used kids in the past as human shields doesn't meet the requirements. Israel has used kids as human shields too. Equally irrelevant when discussing rockets fired from Gaza.