jonclark

I think the article makes a valid point that many of the Pro-Yingluck poster should consider.

The Japanese PM resigned after the Tsunami (clearly the PM didn't cause or was directly responsible for the actual creation of the tsunami), but his show of responsibility; in terms of the problems, the relief effort and fukoshima etc. that occurred post tsunami allowed the Japanese people to politically 'learn from the mistakes move on' Symbolic perhaps but the show of responsibility (i.e. his resignation) stopped the post tsunami Japanese politics from being mired in acrimony and finger pointing and with the 'villain' identified the politics moved on.

Without Yinglucks symbolic resignation, PTP has created a club for the Dems to repeatedly use to beat the government up with. If Yingluck is concerned about PTP she should resign - She is to blame for the post flood cock up, she should resign, and PTP will continue to govern with a new PM.

The procedure to go through to allocate much needed funtds takes bureacracy to a new level i am in ayutthaya and desperate families are trying to get the 5000bht per household so they can buy food and try restore their homes but gov offices are closed .Government officials should be out there with the cash to give but no the thai people are let down by a so called poor peoples government,its scandalous

Agreed - But worst still and the missus when nuts over this last night - On Thai news it was reported that only households which have been fully flooded for 7 days or more in districts declared as flooded will be eligible for the full 5'000.

Nice little caveat which the PM and her government failed to promote to the general public.

I have lost all faith in this government, her words are meaningless and her actions feeble. If she uses the 'be patient' comment again I'll puke. Its been her mantra since day 1 of office.

The Chinese would have been able to build a second 'great wall' in the same time it takes Thailand to sort this flood out.

Don't mean to be negative, but so frustrated with the inaction and the ineffectiveness of current actions. <deleted> Ask for international help, get this problem sorted in the shortest possible time, don't try to show the international community how resilient we are by needlessly enduring this disaster any longer than possible due to stubbornness in seeking assistance.

Actually having patience with the flood is all people can do. When the decision to avoid all risk to central BKK was made it was always going to delay the waters going down and guarantee others were hit far harder. One analyst put it: those who cant afford to pay for the damage are suffering so those that can afford to dont have to suffer. The wider political ramifications of this (beyond organised party politics as they exist right now) are going to resonate.

How the aftermath is dealt with will be critical to whether Thailand sees stability or not. Personally I dont think the masses will abandon PTP, but if they do has anyone thought where they will go? It certainly isnt back to the establishment or the democrat party

I don't think the dems needs the masses to go back to them, only a proportion of them (15%) or so

I have lost all faith in this government, her words are meaningless and her actions feeble. If she uses the 'be patient' comment again I'll puke. Its been her mantra since day 1 of office.

The Chinese would have been able to build a second 'great wall' in the same time it takes Thailand to sort this flood out.

Don't mean to be negative, but so frustrated with the inaction and the ineffectiveness of current actions. <deleted> Ask for international help, get this problem sorted in the shortest possible time, don't try to show the international community how resilient we are by needlessly enduring this disaster any longer than possible due to stubbornness in seeking assistance.

drove past 1/2 an hour ago and it wasn't especially busy - looked like a normal day. Maybe inside it was busy but from the road looked fine. Hope that helps

Phuket's occupancy rates are holding up. Bookings for the peak holiday season are still firm. The airport is still operating at over capacity.

Phuket is not Thailand, I know, but it is one of the top destinations with direct flights. I would expect that Chiang Mai is also holding up. Life is carrying in the untouched regions. Check out the major resort availabilities starting in mid December and most are nearly booked. If these high priced options are holding up, it is an indicator that the tourist business has not tanked. If anything it might offer relief to the staff shortages in Phuket as displaced workers come in search of work. I expect that the hotels and guest houses of Hua hin and Pattaya are filled with refugees from the flooded regions.

Wow a veritable encyclopedia of tourist knowledge and fact

Get out of the boat and walk through the water like the rest of us. She feels stressed -Her stress is nothing compared to that of those living under or in the water and getting sweet FA from her and her government.

...Bt25,000 compensation would be granted in the event of loss of life, and Bt50,000 if it is the breadwinner," she said.

Jeez - That is actually insulting, wouldn't even cover the costs of a funeral. So how many TV members feel that 1'000 GBP is a good approximation for the value of their or their loved ones lives. Shows that more value os placed on business than life when you compare the figures.

Lets be honest here.

If you were planning and had saved all year for your 'two weeks in the sun' would you honestly risk all that saving going to a foreign country remotely linked to any type of natural disaster.

Or

Would you say 'nope' lets go somewhere else and come here when the disaster is over - perhaps next year.

Hoteliers need to look at this form the tourists perspective.

I know that its mean to say this......but the thais deserve whats hapenning to them as they voted in this stupid govt. Also the pure thais should start some firm actions after the floods as the thai chinese are the ones that are exploiting the whle situation by marking up rices, etc.

This sounds like one of those religious statements: "Hurricane Katrina Struck New Orleans Because It Was 'Planning A Sinful' 'Homosexual Rally'".

It wouldn't have mattered who was in power. They wouldn't have been able to stop the flooding.

I believe the situation is more complicated than: "the government is responsible" or its opposite "nobody could have done anything".

This disaster seems to me as the combination of:

• exceptional rainfalls at the end of the rainy season
• bad water management since april (i.e.: under supervision of 2 different governments, water was stored in the dams much earlier than previous years, despite normal rainfall at that time)
• bad coordination in the disaster management once it was inevitable

I don't think any of us here in Thaivisa have enough elements to determine which of these 3 factors were the most critical and to what extent the crisis could have been adverted or lessened.

This can only come from an inquiry conducted later on by independent experts, which we know won't happen here.

However, the crisis is still not finished, and I'd really like the government get their s***t together, especially with the rescue operations in the flooded zones. Some of my relatives are in 1.5m of water for 2 weeks already. They are staying partly because we bought a small motor boat which allow us to bring supplies anytime to them and many of their neighbors who had nowhere else to go. It seems they haven't seen any official/rescue team yet.

I'd like to see the FROC on TV point to a map and show, per region, how much boats, trucks, personnel are deployed. How their supply chain is organized. Which area they can reach already and which they can't.... Organizing supply in adverse conditions is supposed to be one of the main focus of any respectable army in the world as you can't win anything without that. Have the thousands of Thai generals been trained for that or are their stars and medals only rewarding bureaucratic skills?

JyyBkk - Liked the last paragraph of your post, would be interesting seeing if FROC knows what's its got and where it is. It seems to me that the onus is still on flood prevention as opposed to help those stranded. Here in miniburi we've seen sweet FA and most of the people in my moo ban have basically started to work collectively. One of the local restaurants has in he moo ban is asking for help and supplies from all the residents and getting people together to cook for the entire moo ban as supplies run low so that everyone gets at least a single hot meal a day. Very mush like what you see in the temples upcountry if there is a funeral - the local women all go and cook the food for the funeral at the temple and take their turn helping out.

Also gives people a place to meet, eat and take their mind of the current situation and generally life the spirits of people a bit. Wife has already disappeared with some rice, spices and pork.

I'd also add in the Rama 9 hospital - really good and not expensive, private room with flat screen is about 3'000 baht per night plus medicines, doctors fees. Clean and modern with good doctors.

I know that its mean to say this......but the thais deserve whats hapenning to them as they voted in this stupid govt. Also the pure thais should start some firm actions after the floods as the thai chinese are the ones that are exploiting the whle situation by marking up rices, etc.

Please define 'pure Thai' - Thailand is a mix of many ethnicities and the mainstay of Thai ancestry came from China 400 years ago (or so). How can i tell if a Thai person is pure Thai and more importantly how do pure Thais know if another person is pure Thai? DNA Check?

Your post is racist based on stereotypical assumptions of appearance and skin color.

Thank you for this informations, I agree 100%, they do same than all the time, block water and flooding all around BKK.

I think it's political fight between yellow BKK and Rest-Thailand, the old rabbit hit the young chicken...

Sukumbhand have the most responsibillity for the disaster we have.

Spirit47 - Clearly you are frustrated but you frustration is clouding your judgement. If Bangkok goes under YOUR COUNTRY is broken and your house and community will still be flooded. I think you need to look at the Japanese and their fortitude in dealing with the tsunami or even the Brits during the Blitz. Unless you pull together as a people and stop looking with jealous eyes at your brothers and sisters your suffering will continue.

In other words if your house was dry and your fellow Thais were trying to flood it by tearing down barriers to flood your house, how would you feel towards your Thai brothers and sisters who were tearing down the barriers? Would you offer them help or would you fight them?

And you are wrong with your assertion of the Governor - The buck stops at Yinglucks door. She is the PM it is her responsibility to lead, co-ordinate and work with the relevant agencies to produce a clear plan of action in which all parties understand their roles. If these things do not happen it is her fault. And remember this ultimately boils down to the people who made the judgement and voted her in as the person in the whole country with the qualities best suited to lead Thailand. Remember that next time you put your cross in the box when you vote. Does this person have the qualities and experiences required to led my great country? As opposed to what will we be given for free.

P.S. i live in Minburi

..... and encourage the people to try and pull together for the good of the country.

Firstly I was pointing out that everyone needs to pull together.

Secondly, the politics bit - I was replying to the statement that the governor was responsible for this disaster (or management of) and the Bkk - yellow / rest of the country red by Spirit47.

Thirdly the co-ordination has been shit - my house has been under by about 30 - 80 cm over the last 4-5 days and we have received very little information regarding a) how long this will continue for (even an approximation would be useful) what help we can expect and c) how we can help. So excuse my annoyance at the current government. They are not to blame but they are responsible for the response to it, ignoring or not talking about their failings absolves them of their responsibilities of office, which is, judging by the shit throwing, finger pointing contest you can see each night on Thai TV news, exactly what they want.

Seeing statements about how Bangkok should be flooded makes my blood boil as I wouldn't wish my families current flooded experience on anyone (rich or poor).

And this notion that inner Bangkok is populated by the rich only is getting old.

You've obviously never been to Klong Toei, beautiful place, swimming pools, models waltzing around in bikinis, mercs and BMW in each and every drive way, impeccably manicured gardens. A very rich and salubrious district.

Ahh, you've been to Emporium then.

No the market behind it !

Thank you for this informations, I agree 100%, they do same than all the time, block water and flooding all around BKK.

I think it's political fight between yellow BKK and Rest-Thailand, the old rabbit hit the young chicken...

Sukumbhand have the most responsibillity for the disaster we have.

Spirit47 - Clearly you are frustrated but you frustration is clouding your judgement. If Bangkok goes under YOUR COUNTRY is broken and your house and community will still be flooded. I think you need to look at the Japanese and their fortitude in dealing with the tsunami or even the Brits during the Blitz. Unless you pull together as a people and stop looking with jealous eyes at your brothers and sisters your suffering will continue.

In other words if your house was dry and your fellow Thais were trying to flood it by tearing down barriers to flood your house, how would you feel towards your Thai brothers and sisters who were tearing down the barriers? Would you offer them help or would you fight them?

And you are wrong with your assertion of the Governor - The buck stops at Yinglucks door. She is the PM it is her responsibility to lead, co-ordinate and work with the relevant agencies to produce a clear plan of action in which all parties understand their roles. If these things do not happen it is her fault. And remember this ultimately boils down to the people who made the judgement and voted her in as the person in the whole country with the qualities best suited to lead Thailand. Remember that next time you put your cross in the box when you vote. Does this person have the qualities and experiences required to led my great country? As opposed to what will we be given for free.

P.S. i live in Minburi

Many Thais r not truly nice people anymore and u can all argue the fact but after nearly 20 yrs here they have changed beyond belief maybe learning the western ways then going overboard picking the bad habits but I live with it and accept it but it is truly my opinion honest and true..

Here here! It has always since I have been here about "how much Thai's can get out of the falang Bank"smack's of rip off and I see ir more and more in the villages of Thailand. Most are too lazy to go and find a real job. Easier scamming the falang than go and work.

Can see the direction this thread is going in. But alas one can only nod in agreement with many of the statements. However maybe the concept of lazy is a western one. I think being 'lazy' is all part of the wider culture / excuse (you choose) of 'sanook'

And this notion that inner Bangkok is populated by the rich only is getting old.

You've obviously never been to Klong Toei, beautiful place, swimming pools, models waltzing around in bikinis, mercs and BMW in each and every drive way, impeccably manicured gardens. A very rich and salubrious district. Too rich? Perhaps sir might like to consider Klong Tan or Din Daeng, slightly less up-scale but still an enviable address for those with money to spend.

You are spot on- It's a myth created by people who live outside of Bangkok to justify their actions and prejudices. Similar to the old Dick Whittington story and the streets of London being paved with gold.

Is Thailand a caring society - I think the fairest assessment would be to say Thailand is as caring as any other 21st Century country. Unfortunately bad news makes good headlines as we often overlook the good in our society and focus on the bad.

Sarcasm noted. But I'm talking about real investment across the entire education system, new schools, higher wages, teaching and learning standards raised. A far better use of a loan than digging a set of tunnels which will remian unused for most of the year.

Education is no good to anyone if the country is flooded for 2-3 months every year.

Also, education doesn't just need money thrown at it. It needs a complete overhaul of attitudes.

The voice of reason.

Education should be upgraded and there is no two ways about that.

How ever if the floods still continue to control the country year after year no amount of education will help.

The knowledge is already here just a question of using it.

<deleted> - floods year after year - Okay please give details of floods which controlled the country in these years.

2000??

2001??

2002?

2003?

2004?

2005?

2006?

2007?

2008?

2009?

2010?

Exactly there weren't any floods these years (i could go back further but I think i've made my point) . Just because we have a single once in a lifetime / generation flood this year it's hardly an indicator of repeat of floods of this magnitude in subsequent years (2012, 2013 etc).

It's an 800 Billion baht WHAT IF...?

What this 800 Billion baht represents is very bad value for money for the the country which could be better spent elesewhere. And lets remember it's the tax payer or natives who foot the bill either with taxable contributions or reduced public services.

Sarcasm noted. But I'm talking about real investment across the entire education system, new schools, higher wages, teaching and learning standards raised. A far better use of a loan than digging a set of tunnels which will remian unused for most of the year.

Education is no good to anyone if the country is flooded for 2-3 months every year.

Also, education doesn't just need money thrown at it. It needs a complete overhaul of attitudes.

The voice of reason.

Education should be upgraded and there is no two ways about that.

How ever if the floods still continue to control the country year after year no amount of education will help.

The knowledge is already here just a question of using it.

<deleted> - floods year after year - Okay please give details of floods which controlled the country in these years.

2000??

2001??

2002?

2003?

2004?

2005?

2006?

2007?

2008?

2009?

2010?

Exactly there weren't any floods these years (i could go back further but I think i've made my point) . Just because we have a single once in a lifetime / generation flood this year it's hardly an indicator of repeat of floods of this magnitude in subsequent years (2012, 2013 etc).

What this 800 Billion baht represents is very bad value for money for the the country which could be better spent elesewhere. And lets remember it's the tax payer or natives who foot the bill either with taxable contributions or reduced public services.

Sarcasm noted. But I'm talking about real investment across the entire education system, new schools, higher wages, teaching and learning standards raised. A far better use of a loan than digging a set of tunnels which will remian unused for most of the year.

Education is no good to anyone if the country is flooded for 2-3 months every year.

Also, education doesn't just need money thrown at it. It needs a complete overhaul of attitudes.

It's easy to have a knee jerk reaction to these floods, but they are exceptional, and unlikely to happen on this scale for another 20 - 30 years, so the country isn't flooded for 2-3 months every year is it? The point I'm trying to make is that the government understandable responds (to pacify the public and show some semblance of control or management) by throwing money at the problem. Previous governments have baulked at borrowing from foreigners. But this government has shown it hand at having no such compunction. I'm saying right lets put the money where it is really needed into education so we can bridge the gap between rich and poor, by providing education and opportunities for the younger generation, which in turn makes the country stronger both financially and socially.

The Earth is a dynamic planet and no matter how big we build our defenses eventually mother nature will tear them down. That doesn't mean we don't defend ourselves or do nothing, but in this instance better water management comes from setting aside natural flood plains, unclogging and maintaining the canels and generally taking a bit more care and consideration where we choose to build our towns and cities (The new airport being a case in point). Not spending 800 Billion Baht on defenses (tunnels, dykes etc.) and then continuing down the same path which led us to this situation in the first place thinking we are immune from the natural world. It's f**king stupid

Those bloody foreigners disrupting car production in the US

How about borrowing the 800 Billion baht and investing it in education so that in the future when the floods re occur Thailand actually has the brain power in its civil and governmental services to manage flood waters. It would also put Thailand younger generations on a better footing for taking the opportunities that ASEAN offers in 2015 when trade barriers come down and bring more cash into the country and government coffers.

The government has shown its hand here - It has no problem borrowing foreign money - So borrow it and invest it in your youth, it will repay you back far more generously than any water management project.

Those issues have already been addressed by the government with its billions committed for spending on the computer tablets for first graders "project."

Sarcasm noted. But I'm talking about real investment across the entire education system, new schools, higher wages, teaching and learning standards raised. A far better use of a loan than digging a set of tunnels which will remian unused for most of the year.

How about borrowing the 800 Billion baht and investing it in education so that in the future when the floods re occur Thailand actually has the brain power in its civil and governmental services to manage flood waters. It would also put Thailand younger generations on a better footing for taking the opportunities that ASEAN offers in 2015 when trade barriers come down and bring more cash into the country and government coffers.

The government has shown its hand here - It has no problem borrowing foreign money - So borrow it and invest it in your youth, it will repay you back far more generously than any water management project.

Nationalism prevents development and without nationalism Thailand is weak. Imagine if the tourism sector gets the nod and is included in the list of occupations, Singaporeans (or other asean members) can come and open up businesses and profit from Thai culture and history. That will be about as popular as a turd in a swimming pool amongst the locals, or any of the natives who are driven out of business as a result.

Isn't November 6th is when the schools reopen? Just trying to join the dots?