ukrules

I just got a text message from someone at Aranyaprathet-Poipet border: from today more than 3 visa exempt stamps and they will only give 7 days there.

Note: 7 days as opposed to refused entry. However, this is with a border/visa run company. To try a run independently might result in a refusal same as other borders... or not... who knows?

7 days is a 'nice' version of the refusal of entry from what I understand, I believe it's meant to allow you to make plans and leave the country either permentnenly or plans to go to a different country and get a visa like a tourist visa.

This can easily be done by flying to Phnom Pehn (onernight serivce there from agent) or other places.

Or just go to Europe and get a 6 months triple entry tourist visa and wait for that to unfold / unravel over the coming months. Nothing is very clear right now.

Yes, I went to the office at the time.

This was a few years ago and the office I went to was burned out during the red shirt riots so I'm not sure where the new office is located as I've moved to Hua Hin now.

I'm sure someone will be along who knows where the new offices are located.

I have overpaid in the past and there was no problem. Assuming you only leave a fridge/freezer turned on at a low setting the bill will be very low so it doesn't hurt to pay a few thousand Baht in just in case.

Many countries scan fingerprints on entry but Thailand's Immigration is much more old fashioned and slow than most. They seem to love stamping and signing things. I wonder if this will hold up the process any futher. China is even more paranoid than Thailand and much less dependent on tourism income but they are able to get people through Immigration in about 40 seconds - with a smile too which is all too rare in the Land of Smiles itself.

I note that the commissioner didn't disclose his reasons for not being worried about disease transmission by the finger print scanners. Prehaps he is not worried because he will not have to have his prints scanned as a pu yai.

China make you go through immigration for a connection which is ridiculous.

So does LA

That's ridiculous too

...and what about the policy of only 2 tourist visas in your passport? We retired, under 50 pensioners go back West?

Get a new passport.....

IMO getting new passports is just too desperate. Surely there's a good chance your previous visas will be recorded on the immigration data base?

I had to get a new one for my wife once, which proved very useful, but I only did it because I accidentally put it in the washing machine, and it didn't come out all that clean.

A new Australian passport is easy to get - it just costs more each time you lose it, until they start asking lots of questions when it starts to look suspicious - maybe your 3rd time. They have a price list up on the wall at the consulate. I certainly wouldn't want to go through all the trouble of getting new Philippine passport though - that's a real hassle and takes at least a month.

Getting a new Philippine passport is a pain in the backside plus gets your Philippina Princes a trip to immigration office on the way out of RPI (which is getting harder & harder to do, even with me accompanying her on a visit to stay with me in Singapore).

Getting a new UK one isn't much easier, needs to be done in Hong Kong & IIRC it's approx s$500 (roughly £250).

Back to the subject of visas for under 50s, I'm also one of the lucky ones that are under 50 (just, I'm 48 & 1/4), fortunate enough to have enough savings/passive income to retire (approx twice the monthly 65,000 thb requirement, inflation catered for as much as I can) but I just have to accept that I can't do so (retire) in Thailand until I'm 50.

I can in Philippines (it's 35) &would need to wait an extra 5 years in Indonesia (It's 55).

Oh well, can't have everything

I don't know how true this is but someone told me the following a couple of months ago, maybe he got it completely wrong but here goes anyway :

He said that it's possible to get a retirement visa when you're only 49. Something to do with your 49th Birthday actually being the 50th time you've been alive on your birthday, so you are in your 50th year so to speak.

I'm only 41 so I didn't give it much thought but it could be worth looking into in your case.

Maybe it's a case of how the rules are interpreted by the officer in question at the time and who knows, perhaps a 'fee' was paid.

It would be interesting to see if anyone else has ever heard of a retirement visa being issued to a 49 year old before though.

It will probably cost you less than 1000 Baht per month, that's my guess.

I run 2 A/C's on around 25 degrees C for about 16 hours a day and one on about 20 degrees C for about 9 or 10 hours per day.

So the above plus the TV, several computers, fridge, fridge freezer and a different upright freezer and my totel electric bill comes to between 4500-7500 depending on which month it is - this month it will be more than 7000 as it's pretty hot out there.

For anyone that's interested, he went back to the UK, and through this forum, he had a temporary address, he is now under the care of the social security, his credit card fraud was wiped off after 7 years and the unsecured bank loans are wiped off too, he is now in a hostel type accommodation and is trying to find ways to get back to Thailand, I hope he don't end up in Jail.

Thanks for all those guys that tried to help, and the one guy that did.

Topic Closed.

The Credit Card debts will be null and void but not the fraud that aquired them.............

Seriously, these debts are long forgotten about and don't think for one minute that there will be a criminal case - there won't.

Unless he stole hundreds of thousands of pounds (which he didn't) then he will be lumped in the category of 'default' along with the tens of thousands of other defaulters and be forgotten about. Even if he was made bankrupt due to this default in his absence that would have expired by now.

Proving intent of fraud would be almost impossible, especially if he made a few repayments on the cards.

For all those holier than thou here, don't believe it can't happen to you as anything is possible in this world.

I once knew a guy who spent decades in Zimbabwe, then through no fault of his own this ignorant guy named Robert Mugabe came along and took everything he owned and threw him out of the country with nothing.

What happened in Burma before the Junta came along ? None of this could ever happen in Thailand right ?

God knows what the real tourism figures will be after they finish their crackdown. Every single tourist?

Damn that will take a while to process. Standing behind a queue of Chinese arrivals is going to be even more joyous.

Frustratin I know,but they've had in KL for a while,not departueres alas (MH7310 !)

Howvere once you've been through once your dabs are on the database,not sure if expires when your passport does.They ve been around years in hi tech companys we had in offices Finland years ago

Biometric scanners have been around for a very long time, longer than most people realise.

Some 25 years ago one of my Computer Science teachers who was probably in her mid 50's at the time told us about her father who used to have his palm scanned every day to gain entry to his workplace. Based on their ages this would have been as long ago as the 60/70's in the UK so it really is quite an old technology.

I have no idea what the old guy did for a living but he was some sort of scientist.

As many have already said, the rules here are out of date for the modern connected world, but I'm not holding my breath for the Thai Immigration to start allowing Digital Nomads to live here and work online.

It would be superb if they had an annual quota for these digital nomads. Allow say 10,000 solo entrepreneurs that work online to get a work permit and a valid visa each year. The application process could require that the applicant show x number of years of website / traffic / revenue or something..... The fee could be a flat fee. 60,000 baht per year wouldn't be too bad and that would add 600 million baht a year to the Immigration coffers.

60k a year ?? You want to pay 5k a month TOTAL ??? Income tax, social security, visa prep, everything ?? Ohh the LOLs.

What you say is easy, its not hard to get a b visa and work permit.. I know a company that will do it all for you, the whole works, process your accounts, tax, visa and work permit you will be fully legal. No fear, no visa runs, long stay perfect.

They charge 25% of your net. Pretty damn cheap to be legal IMO.

PM me for their contact info.

60K for a visa to allow someone who wants to live a year in Thailand, seems reasonable. Its certainly a hell of a lot more than they are getting now.

Visa sure.. But then income tax, social security, etc on top no ??

I mean you cant expect to be resident somewhere and not pay income tax on money earnt while your incountry... One goes hand in hand with the other..

There's two questions that spring to mind :

1 - How much does the 'average' Thai worker earn

2 - How much tax, social security contributions do they make and what benefits do they receive for this

The answers to both questions are pretty low.

Paying 5000 Baht per month for a visa would actually put you in a position where you're contributing more to society than a lot of Thai's are.

Note - this obviously excludes the well educated, wealthy business owners and professional Thai's who work in the various professions. I'm talking about the average run of the mill job like working in a manufacturing facility. Think of a salary range between the minimum wage and double to triple the minimum wage for Thais. Who would contribute more even on a mere 5000 Baht a month visa fee ?

What country operated the Embassy in this case ?

This is one of the scenarios I expect later in the year. It's a logical progression when you think about it.

First they stop people doing visa exempt exits/entries, that will of course make no difference to anything, to believe otherwise would be idiocy. Then they will look at the tourist visa exit entries and conclude that those who were previously doing visa exempt runs every 15 or 30 days have now moved over to using tourist visas...

They started looking at people with back-to-back tourist visas many years ago. Some examples:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/9VURQaX0U83Ape5w_5J3Am5XDJvNawOxbinS9SeY53E?feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/uKGsCwqzFz8tqaHoh1fHLm5XDJvNawOxbinS9SeY53E?feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/gCvAyJf4w84u5VQDPYlKVG5XDJvNawOxbinS9SeY53E?feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/pOZN6LL58Jzw-nVQ_Kw03W5XDJvNawOxbinS9SeY53E?feat=directlink

It looks like they mean business this time. Limited tourist visas are being issued to people in various consulates and embassies in the Asian region for some time now. When this spreads to Europe and the US things will become difficult for people who travel the world picking up visas in far away places where there are less restrictions.

First they're coming for the 'low hanging fruit', those using multiple visa exempt entries to live here. Next up will be the people who use tourist visas to continuously live here.

The reason given for these actions are that they're looking for criminals and illegal workers - I suspect this is merely a diversionary tactic, an excuse if you will. I read somewhere that 90% of back to back visa exempt 'long stayers' are supposedly working illegally - I don't believe that figure for one minute. It's an outright lie.

After they come for the 'tourist visa' permatourists who knows what's next but I have a feeling it won't stop there.....The intent is clearly to reduce the number of foreigners residing in the country.

I'm thinking the ED visa system will be targeted, then maybe the retirement system would be up for a review.

I'm sure this process will take some time but they appear to have been collecting figures over time and have a clear objective as far as I'm concerned.

Interesting.

I guess I will take a long a photocopy of a bank statement and highlight my funds coming from a UK account just in case and maybe even see some sort of travel itinerary that shows me leaving the country within those 7 days in case it's going to be a problem.

Thanks for the information.

There's no need to take any additional information with you, it won't be a problem.

Their only option is to give you the 7 day notice to leave the country, this is a refusal of your request for an extension of stay, you can put down any number of days on the application form you want it will always come back as a refusal unless you have a good reason. They are actually saying 'NO you can't have the extension - here's an official notice that you have 7 days to leave the country'.

If you do this on the last day of your current entrance it effectively gives you 7 more days even though they are rejecting your request and saying no. It's kind of ironic but they do get to keep the 1900 Baht from the application and sometimes it can be more convenient to do this depending on your travel plans. For example I like flying out of Bangkok on a Sunday or Monday for various reasons and I sometimes go a week before my current stamp runs out, sometimes I go and get another 7 days and fly out the week after the current stamp runs out. If it's only 1 day I'll just overstay as they don't charge or penalise you for it.

When I first came to Thailand there was no visa on arrival. Burma was closed. Laos was just transitioning from communist rule and the Khmer Rouge were running Cambodia. Your only option was to get a business visa and go to Penang to do that and present a tax receipt on exit, but we got by. Then Penang stopped issuing one year visas and we had to go to other Embassies or Consulates, but we still got by.

Just go to a Visa Consultant and get sorted out instead of whining. Pay the money and get a one year visa or spend days going back an fore to Immigration trying to save 15k or whatever. Anyone who's been here for some time will tell you who can be relied on. Please don't PM me.

I'm from Sweden. When I started to come here I didn't need any visa. The first 8-10 years I got 90 days every time I came to Thailand. Could cross the border legaly and get 90 more days if I liked that. Then we joined EU and all the visa rules changed

Bilateral agreement ? Finland had the same between -94 and -95, Thais could enter for 90 days and vise versa without a visa. Then came the EU.

Seems the Koreans have this now, but are targeted for back to back entries. If I were the Korean foreign minister, I'd immediately make sure it's the same for Thais trying to get into Korea. Or simply cancel the agreement.

It's quite possible the Koreans have been booting Thai's out of Korea for some time which could have prompted this whole thing.

The key word is In-Out.

Like I said in another thread. People are realy kidding themselves if they think that they will not be affected on a multiple entry non imm or tourist visa. Visa runs on multi-entry visas are not in the spirit of immigration policy. The authorities didn't create multiple entries so people could walk over the bridge and turn back around.

People on multi-entry visas will likely be the next hit.

This is one of the scenarios I expect later in the year. It's a logical progression when you think about it.

First they stop people doing visa exempt exits/entries, that will of course make no difference to anything, to believe otherwise would be idiocy. Then they will look at the tourist visa exit entries and conclude that those who were previously doing visa exempt runs every 15 or 30 days have now moved over to using tourist visas.

If they ban people from doing back to back tourist visa entries that's when the shit will really hit the fan as it will affect a lot of people who are living here whether they're working or not this will be a huge number of people. Unlike the people who do border runs every month the group of people who use tourist visas and regular foreign travel back to Europe/US, etc includes the unmarried non working independently wealthy under 50's of which there are a lot.

The immigration department down in Cambodia are probably hiring and training people to issue those 1 year business visas right now in anticipation of the influx of new residents.

link to the other thread please?

This is the discussion with the young American fellow, who has been abusing the 30 day entry, is not a tourist, is running an online business whilst his arse (ass if you're American) is parked here in the Kingdom,.. and not paying any tax. The topic was closed before I had a chance to tell him that I hope he get's caught and screwed,

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/725758-so-can-i-stay-in-thailand/?utm_source=newsletter-20140514-0758&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=featured

Thanks, haven't gotten round to reading it yet so don't know the specifics. I will say though that Thailand certainly doesn't make it easy for online entrepreneurs to work here. Even Thai startups now often register abroad. http://www.techinasia.com/successful-startup-settle-thailand-register-company/

People should follow the law, but the law should not put insurmountable barriers up. Anyway, thanks again for the link!

Hilarious, it looks like the laws in Thailand are designed to descourage innovation. Singapores gain I guess.

Maybe this is why the list of technologican advances / innovations from Thailand isn't so long.

I've been using Lazada for some time now. Their delivery guys were pretty crappy when I first used it until they switched over to a delivery company called Kerry Logistics - now the service is excellent. Note - this is for delivery to Hua Hin, not Bangkok.

Also I find it much easier to use these days now there's an English language option.

I mainly use it to buy a boxload of 'coffee pods' for my cappucino machine which I can't seem to find on sale anywhere in Hua Hin.

does earning money via the internet count as illegal working? I see many who are too young to get a retirement visa but earn good overseas income as programers etc. I have no worries with my retirement visa. The only thing that sucks about it is you have to be old to get one!

Technically I believe the legal answer to your question is yes. If you are physically in Thailand working (even if its code to be used in another country or on servers located in another country), then you need a work permit. Not that you are ever likely to get caught, but again this tightening of the rules is also aimed at this situation, where Non-Thais locate themselves in Thailand using out-in Visas, get paid overseas for online work, and pay no local taxes. Again the logic being that if people live in the country long-term, they should be contributing to the cost of running it....

You just made that up, everything in that post is pure speculation on your part.

If this was the case they would not want any oil / gas offshore workers staying in Thailand, same principle. Another example is investment income, it's quite legitimate to live in Thailand on whatever visa you have including retirement and pay zero tax on investment income earned overseas in previous years. Many people do this and pay zero tax on it, all within the rules.

I suspect the real problems will surface in August and a clearer picture of what's really going on won't emerge until around September.

I predict there will be lots of problems and this will affect way more people than it's originally intended. I don't trust the tourist visa option at all now and will be actively looking into moving elsewhere in Asia.

I suspect the real problems will surface when entry to Thailand by air becomes an issue on 13 August. I can't picture that a check-in agent to BA in Birmingham is going to be all that happy trying to foresee what some Thai immigrations official halfway around the world is going to make of some passenger's passport that contains a number of Thai entry stamps. Or how about a new passport, a situation in which the passenger's "Thailand history" is all on the Thai immigrations computer and cannot be sussed out in advance.

At that point it becomes a nightmare, since the airline can theoretically be made to return the passenger to place of origin at their cost. Then the debate can begin as to whether the check-in agent should have denied the passenger. This has absolutely no hope of working.

A good point, if a passenger is refused entry due to them having an incorrect visa there's often a hefty fine which is the equivalent of several thousand US Dollars for the airline to pay from what I've read in the past.

This will infuriate all of the airlines which still operate flights into BKK.

I have noticed that the number of flights to / from Europe have been dropping steadily over the past few years to such levels that it's now not really possible to get overnight flights in both directions regardless of which airline you fly with. I'm sure this will only get worse.

I hope they have more luck with the finger scanners than the had here in Cambodia.

They started scanning a couple of years ago. All 10 fingers of tourists that hardly speak any English, by guys that hardly speak a word of English. Huge frustration, much shouting, enormous queues.

Result: the scanners are still there but haven't been used for a year

then Thailand can get a good deal on those...

They scanned both mine and my girlfriends fingerprints in Phnom Penh when I was there last month. We had both been previously so only had to do one hand.

Dear Soutpeel,

Thanks for the info. As I mentioned I am not looking for cover for the basic stuff, just for the events that could be financially crippling without having adequate cover in place.

Dear UKrules,

Your policy looks interesting, how much roughly is the annual premium please?

About 300 pounds per quarter so 1200 a year approx, maybe a little more.

It's worth noting that this is for full health care that covers you for everything - not just medevac / disaster evacuation. With this you're covered for Cancer treatments, Car / Motorcycle accidents, the lot.

It's also good for every country apart from the USA. This policy effectively replaces the need for regular travel insurance apart from luggage / small item insurance.

You must be a YOUNG man as the cheapest I could get them to quote based on the criteria you suggest was £700 a quarter !

Well I'm 41 now but I originally took the policy out when I was about 37 years old.

For example: on May 9, I returned (via Moscow, via Warsaw) to Bangkok, after being away from Thailand for SEVEN MONTHS. That's 7 months out, to make it clear again To my surprise, the official at border control grilled me in an extremely rude manner, as if I were surely up to no good, and apparently almost didn't let me in. I could have easily explained to her what my work is (well outside of Thailand), that I never (ever) try to work in Thailand, that I have a long history of paying rent and bills in a community that loves me. I don't even drink, for heavens sake. But she had no interest in hearing about that. Only kept asking 'what are you doing in Thailand!'. I could have explained easily about my work outside of Thailand, and if she had looked carefully could see that I'd been gone for a good while. An explanation and actual time outside of Thailand (and each year, for that matter), she had no interest in hearing about. It was as if suddenly I'd been purposely trying to do something wrong, simply because the political mood has changed, and that simply isn't the case.

When you entered on May 9th were you using a visa of any kind or the regular 30 day visa exemption ?

It was the 30 day exemption. I don't believe one would have a problem with a tr visa. However, what is never mentioned by officials when saying 'simply get the proper visa' is that such visas are flatly refused now, if one has several before. Even IF those visas are years apart. If an un-studious official simply sees them, they generally don't look closely at the dates, but just say 'you've had before'. I went to Warsaw to get a new tourist visa, at the advice of a Thai immigration official earlier, and was there for 7 months. But what was never explained, was that only a Polish resident could obtain a visa at the consulate in Warsaw - at least, that's what was explained to me after I'd traveled all the way there.

Interesting, I'm going back to the UK for a week at the end of June and I'm going to pick up a triple entry tourist visa from the Birmingham consulate whilst I'm there.

I've been living in Thailand for several years. During this time I've had various visas (passport more than half full in just a few years), I also did a one year Thai course which came with a visa. I found it required too much of my time so I didn't renew it. Since then I've done a couple of back to back overland entries after driving to the new Kanchanaburi Burma crossing and I'm currently on a tourist visa which I got from Phnom Penh.

It will be interesting to see how this develops. I'll return to Thailand in the first week of July and will be stamped in for 3 months with my 30 day extension which will take me up until about the beginning of October.

I suspect the real problems will surface in August and a clearer picture of what's really going on won't emerge until around September.

I predict there will be lots of problems and this will affect way more people than it's originally intended. I don't trust the tourist visa option at all now and will be actively looking into moving elsewhere in Asia.

Wonder if we'll see an exodus from Thailand. If so would they do an about face?

It will be too late by then. Once bitten twice shy springs to mind.

If he wants to do the right thing then start punishing the businesses that hire foreignets w/o work permits

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That's what they do in the UK and the fines are big, tens of thousands of pounds.

They even made a tv program about it of which I watched a few episodes. I was disgusted to see the way they hunt down foreigners in the UK. They may be working illegally in Chinese restaurants, etc but lets face it - who else would work there.

Every week this tv program showed this 'border force' raiding Indian, Chinese and probably Thai (can't remember for sure) restaurants and arresting the waiters and chefs.

Coming to Thailand soon...

For example: on May 9, I returned (via Moscow, via Warsaw) to Bangkok, after being away from Thailand for SEVEN MONTHS. That's 7 months out, to make it clear again To my surprise, the official at border control grilled me in an extremely rude manner, as if I were surely up to no good, and apparently almost didn't let me in. I could have easily explained to her what my work is (well outside of Thailand), that I never (ever) try to work in Thailand, that I have a long history of paying rent and bills in a community that loves me. I don't even drink, for heavens sake. But she had no interest in hearing about that. Only kept asking 'what are you doing in Thailand!'. I could have explained easily about my work outside of Thailand, and if she had looked carefully could see that I'd been gone for a good while. An explanation and actual time outside of Thailand (and each year, for that matter), she had no interest in hearing about. It was as if suddenly I'd been purposely trying to do something wrong, simply because the political mood has changed, and that simply isn't the case.

When you entered on May 9th were you using a visa of any kind or the regular 30 day visa exemption ?