sometimewoodworker

That is on the more economical end of the scale, as I mentioned AFIK to get all the functionality of the top end models you probably need a 100v supply and to get it in Japan. There are a variety of different models most have the key features but the top ones have everything. That is not usually required in other markets. it is similar to comparing a top end Rolls Royce to a top end Cadillac the Rolls Royce is always better but you may prefer the Cadillac

The wiring maybe in perfect condition and a borrowed neutral may only ever be a problem of you try to install an RCBO on a circuit that has one. With whole house RCBO’s it is never a problem, just with individual circuit RCBO’s

Having lived in Tokyo for almost 3 decades I can assure you that those are the more economic versions, a top end Toto will be in the range of ¥600,000 so going on for 3,700€, yes you can get cheaper models and probably the top ones are not even sold in anything but 100v models. If your ever get chance to visit Narita airport there is a suite of top end toilets, supplied by Toto, on the way to the gates, these are state of the art and worth a visit even if you have no pressing need.

@atpeace I am glad that you got something out of the thread. Banging my head on a brick wall would probably be less painful and would bring better results, though BetaSméagol has an orange viewpoint that is indestructible despite proof that, that view is unrepresentative of different circumstances and the ways that objectives can be obtained. Give something foreign and computational failure is the result, calcification of the ability to see that one set of actions may not be appropriate seems evident.

If you take a look at my recent post you will see that the dehumidifier (mine is double the size you are considering) is a very conservative user of power, to reiterate mine actually uses 320W at 225v 49%RH though the stated maximum is 700W. So of course if you run it simultaneously with the AC it will use more power but not much more than a few old style light bulbs, however if you want to just drop the humidity before exercising then it is much more energy efficient than just running the AC. My suggestion is check how long the AC is required to drop the room to your desired temperature, then start the dehumidifier an hour or 2 before you need the AC. This will reduce the total power usage. FWIW the Xiaomi I found on HomePro. The brand is reputable as is the shop, you may find a better price elsewhere.

You should test it in each circuit before buying too many. It is quite possible that you may have a borrowed neutral or 2. That can be very difficult to locate and will either instantly trip an RCBO or trip it when an appliance/light is turned on. For my house it took a competent electriction almost 5 hours of testing to find and eliminate the problem.

Your test is totally flawed and based on erroneous assumptions. Yes rooms have air leaks. No the humidity doesn’t rise at any significant rate. Yes I have data to support those points. Your assumption that an AC can’t achieve 30% humidity with an outside humidity is laughable wrong. That I wouldn’t want that low a humidity is irrelevant. A datum point apropos of nothing in particular is that our house has a humidity level that is virtually always at least 10% lower than the outside even when there has been no AC running for hours.

The cost of 1 part of a system is not reflective of the cost of the total ceiling. For that you have to include, among others, the cost of a skilled workforce. So it’s back to actual calculations based on real numbers. My math skills and knowledge seems quite adequate to the task, whilst you seem to need a great knowledge base than you are displaying.

You have postulated an invalid test. The RH of the room will rapidly drop to as low as the AC will allow, probably within 15 minutes, the volume of water collected will have to relation to the maximum it can extract as the room humidity will likely have dropped to 30% or under long before the test completion. If you are going to design a test that can actually produce valid results then you must go back to the drawing board and get the factors correct. It is certainly possible to achieve accurate information but not if you half a*r*s*e the test

Again a ridiculous assumption, based on incomplete incorrect information and totally invalid. Do you think that options were not considered, you seem to have an idea that there is only one way to condition spaces To address your point. The cost of 2 machines, while not quite, is almost double that of my single speed bigger unit. That doesn’t address the wiring requirement as when building I installed 2 AC connection points. before you drone on about SEER ratings they are not relevant to my installation (they are for your continuous ice box) as the AC is virtually never cycling. you don’t seem to have any understanding of the relevance of the volume of my workshop to the AC and dehumidifier. The empty volume is about 450 cubic metres that is close to the total volume in many houses. The floor is about 7.5 metres X 11.5 metres with an approximate ceiling hight of 5.5 metres (none of these are exact as I am in Mazda Khon Kaen at the moment and I don’t have the exact measurements with me. The room could probably house around 8 pickups if the floor area were clear. That meets that the sizes of both the dehumidifier and the AC are much lower than would be required to have them run at the usual 30% duty cycle. The AC was deliberately bought as a non Inverter-based unit as it almost never cycles due to the size of the room, this means that when it is running it dehumidifies as a side effect. The dehumidifier is far more efficient at its job and again it never cycles.

Again you are making ridiculous assumptions based on guesses. The room volume is around 420 cubic meters (assuming I have 20 cubic meters of items in the room. I think that it is actually drastically undersized at about 32,000BTU. The penguins must appreciate visiting you i seldom use the AC in the daytime unless the temperatures are over 29C and the night time is usually set to 24C when my cats are with me and 25~26 when they are not. It doesn’t cycle in my usage and I run it overnight when I can’t hear it Another ridiculous assumption I use my workshop

There you go again making stupid assumptions. The dehumidifier is used in the rainy season where the RH can achieve 90%+ It achieved its required purpose (there was no AC required for the first 4 years of use) which was/is to keep the RH at under 70%. Running for 10 to 12 hours per night maintains the required under 70% humidity in my 450 cubic metre space. as has been said “I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you” Despite all your protestations and theoretical arguments, it works and is far more efficient than my AC unit at reducing humidity on a power/cost/water extracted basis. I have just run a test. The AC unit (installed last year) is using 2,300W at 221v 49%RH the humidifier is using 320W at 225v 49%RH NB these are real world numbers not theoretical maximums 1 hour of the AC (assuming your numbers) = 3~4 litres of water using the same power 7 hours of dehumidifier = 13 litres extraction the AC will not be running at full power for the hour as the usual duty cycle is 30% so 4 litres per hour at 30% duty cycle = 1.2 litres the dehumidifier runs continuously unless you specifically limit its RH% extraction So real world numbers the dehumidifier (surprise surprises) is better cheaper and more efficient than an AC unit at extracting water For my usage the dehumidifier runs when the humidity is high and the temperatures are lower the heat produced is minimal and a short time run of the AC knocks that out the AC runs when the temperatures are to high for comfort (over 30C) or I need to do some welding when I want a 22C temperature due to the clothing needed

I didn’t notice this post at the time. However there is a fundamental flaw in that reasoning. A grossly oversized AC unit used in cooling mode will do almost nothing to control humidity. This is because it will run for such a short time to cool the room that virtually zero (actually a little) water will be extracted. A grossly undersized AC will eztract the most water in cooling mode as it will run continuously in an attempt to cool the room. I haven’t used AC units much in dry mode, and haven’t looked at the data sheets so have no basis for an opinion on how effective they are.

You clearly haven’t seen the way that the frame can be suspended or the way that they are installed. It is significantly less work and you can’t get the kinds of patterns with plasterboard Then you probably haven’t looked. just a FWIW here the are

You are ignoring the data that has been presented. So your comments are hardly evidence-based nor logical Of the possible problems one thing that hasn’t been tried is to reduce the humidity level, logical? The use of a dehumidifier will produce evidence so if @atpeace has the funds it’s the one thing he hasn’t is a dehumidifier Refrigeration isn’t a black art, there are multiple factors that are in play and since all of the usual problems have been addressed and dehumidification hasn’t, it is worth looking into specially since it’s very apparent that the dew point is often significantly exceeded. That is your contention you however are ignoring the fact that while AC does reduce humidity it is hardly the MOST effective, the MOST effective is a dehumidifier. I have both AC and a dehumidifier, the dehumidifier is significantly better at its job than the AC is in doing the same function. Since my dehumidifier is not built into the room it has the downside of having one desired product, water and the other not so much in Thailand, hot air.

While the Xiaomi can theoretically extract 1 litre per hour that is in ideal conditions, I would not expect the performance to be that good. I also doubt that your current AC will be pulling that much water out of the room. the good point of the Xiaomi is that if you see an improvement you can always get a second unit and while 1+1 is not equal to 2 it will be better than 1 Certainly it will be better than without it. I would suggest a simple test of a bucket under the AC drain for an hour of exercise and check how much water is actually produced.

If you have actually made 2 transfers at close to the same time (it is not clear that that is what you have done) you can know exactly the advantage of one over the other. it is usual that the actual costs are not apparent until receipt of the money. Usually Wise comes out as better due to the exchange rates and lack of hidden costs. i would be interested if you do 2 actual transactions of something like ฿100,000

I think you are confusing the problem. While a hygrometer is useful (I have many scattered round and outside the house) there is zero need for a humidifier in Thailand, in most places, (I needed them in the Tokyo winter with a RH of 10% it was painful without them). That the windows are running with condensation shows a greater than 80% RH That many AC units have not cured the problem are many data points. the hypothesis has been tested. The only factor that has not heretofore been tested is reducing the proven humidity with a good dehumidifier. All the point you raise have already been checked. The one that hasn’t is the dehumidifier. With all of that I have never experienced an AC icing up but having watched many videos of commercial coolers and freezers they all ice up but have defrost cycles and heaters to solve that problem. They will defrost several times a day. This proves that an AC icing up is an expected situation and steps are taken to reduce the effect. If the RH is low enough the ice formation will be slowed, QED a dehumidifier will help as long as it is powerful enough. an interesting channel is

That is probably incorrect thinking. You can probably estimate the amount of water you need to drink for your personal exercise for an hour. The unit I have can at best remove 1.8 litres in an hour that is if conditions are perfect for it. Take your requirement, at least double it multiple by 24 and look for a unit that has at least that if not more. Make sure you can use a drain pipe, if you can’t you will regret it DAKHIKT. The cheaper units don’t have a facility to add a pipe. if you are determined on a lower output unit then I would suggest the XIAOMI XMI-BHR8121TH, that is less than 1 litre per hour but the brand is good Make sure that before you start you have the humidity as low as it can go, I seldom see less than 50% but then I’m not trying. A report back after you have experimented would be good. NB pay no attention to the room size recommendations, it’s the litres per 24 hours/24 that is relevant, and your requirements are extreme.

The 40cm square (often patterned) tiles are quite easily available. It’s unlikely that they will be discontinued anytime soon. I still see them being used on local village builds as the skills required are small and they are cheap

Even for large movements of money Wise is likely best. I priced wise when I brought in £17,000 in cash, I exchanged it at the HQ of green superrich, the cost to get there, transport on the water bus etc, made the advantage about ฿1,000 in favour of superrich. The disadvantages were numerous, appointment at the bank (they don’t carry that much cash in virtually new notes), currency interview outbound mandatory, currency declaration in the transit airport mandatory, nothing at Thai customs as it was under the limit, having to carry 350 bank notes on the flight and 750 notes from superrich So if you live near Pratunam, frequently fly to your home country, live near the bank overseas, then it is possible you may choose the difficult option, Vs Wise: go online initiate the transfer, get swapped to my bank to authenticate the transaction, wait and get the transfer time to complete between a minute or to for moderate transfers (£5,000) to a couple of days for larger ones cost savings enough to justify the ฿2,000 difference ten times over between them and cash

@atpeace They certainly will though they are not at all cheap if you get a good one. You will need a floor drain or very long outlet pipe to another room that has a floor drain. My dehumidifier can drop the humidity in my workshop by 10% to 20%! Now before you get your panties in a bunch the workshop has a floor area of 90sqm and a volume of 450cm before deducting for tools and fixtures. this was more expensive than an big AC but is mobile so probably if you drop the humidity to 30% before you start, have it and a good A/C running at the same time it will be OK though the 45 litres a day may be too little NB you need the AC because the humidifier is blowing hot air, it must to dehumidify.

They are simple to install. The minus point is that there are no toilets that hit effective, reliable, inexpensive. A good one is almost as expensive as a small car In my Japanese apartment I installed a Thai bum gun.

My Lazada picture search skill must be better than yours then, I cropped the indoor picture with the yellow pipe and got this https://s.lazada.co.th/s.Fn7u the term for the series of items is unistrut what they are called in Thai I don’t know but they are available in good electrical shops, they may even be available in the big box stores (global etc) our electriction ordered them for us so they are a standard item in professional work. a Google search for ”unistrut pipe support brackets” will find them. this is a lower quality item but maybe good enough. unistrut is used in many places, not just electrical work but also HVAC and other industries, a good steel stockiest may well be a source.

That is not the only option. Specially for the OP clipped to the wall in steel conduit is a significantly better option. these are the clips and in the steel conduit, the paint is optional 😉 You can of course use the HDPR pipe instead of the steel.