erobando

I don't understand. You're the one that brought up Costa Rica and then dismissed a certain type of violence as "non-terrorist."

"The Thai police were waiting for the suspect at the airport after receiving alerts from US and Israeli counter-terrorist agencies, which had advance information about the coming attack. According to debkafile's intelligence sources, the tip-off originated with Lebanese nationals living in Bangkok who had been approached for assistance. Those informants, who did not trust the local authorities to act, went straight to Western and Israeli contacts, who then published terror alerts to US and Israeli travelers."

It seems the US & Israel didn't tell the Thais until the last moment.

Fearful the Thai Police would tip off the suspects?

I think more likely is that the Thai government was already working on this and had already tracked and/or arrested the guy but once the alert went public felt the need for what they felt was the face-saving and tourism-calming PR statements and theater actions.

But I think one thing we can all agree on is... if terrorists are this easy to obtain confessions from and spill their plans of attack, then we have nothing to worry about.

Have you any idea of what Thai police interrogation methods are? If so, you'd have a laundry problem before they started in. Perhaps they offered him a pork chop? Or 78 virgins, supplied from Soi Cowboy, Patpong and Nana Plaza of course.

OK, so then we can all agree. There was never any potential threat in Thailand and the materials were only being stroed until the go into transit ot other locations at a later time.

Rest what case? That the warning was OK... yeah, I already agreed with you. I probably shouldn't have replied to your post since I thought your term "anti-American" related to views on foreign policy... but for you "anit-American" meant grievances toward the US Embassy, which I don't have.

However, you're wrong to think that the Thais did nothing until the US warning. They just didn't do anything publicly. Not sure why you think that nothing occurs unless you know about it.

I still don't get the complaining to the embassy part LOL... why would anyone complain to the US Embassy for a terrorist action in another country by a group from another country. I guess you and I think differently... I don't look for scapegoats whenever something goes wrong.

there was a bomb

http://www.thaivisa....__fromsearch__1

Chemicals that might be used to make a bomb is not the same as a bomb. Nothing happened.

I live pretty close to Mahachai yet I haven't heard any explosions...

You don't look for toilet paper AFTER you take a crap. Similarly, if you wait till the terrorist makes the bomb before going after him, it's a little late don't you think? Only someone with a limited intellect waits for the explosions to happen.

I don't understand your point. The Thai authorities found the chemicals and there was no explosion. Everything is fine, no harm, no foul.

There was no need for the Thai government to go public about this... The only thing it changes for us is that there would be less posts on this forum.

Yeah, if that's not "terrorism," then you can't call the southern insurgency "terrorism" either.

Or is one terrorism because it involves Muslims and the other isn't because it involves Catholics?

Please stop with the misleading information. The southern Thai Muslim insurgents have indeed committed a number of acts of terrorism -- bombs at shopping malls, shooting up Buddhist schools, etc. Not saying a car bomb targeting a specific enemy, such as in a Mafia hit is something to be condoned, but it doesn't meet the standard definition of terrorism. Also, don't even get started with the if it involves Catholics BS. Totally not relevant, it's just a cheap flame and you aren't fooling anyone, you know it.

No, most of the violence in the South is very targeted... people and things that represent the Thai culture or government (police, military, schools) or people that they accuse of collaborating with the Thais.

It's been targeted. I thnk it still can be called "terrorism" but it's not qualitatively different from what you are dismissing in Costa Rica.

Rest what case? That the warning was OK... yeah, I already agreed with you. I probably shouldn't have replied to your post since I thought your term "anti-American" related to views on foreign policy... but for you "anit-American" meant grievances toward the US Embassy, which I don't have.

However, you're wrong to think that the Thais did nothing until the US warning. They just didn't do anything publicly. Not sure why you think that nothing occurs unless you know about it.

I still don't get the complaining to the embassy part LOL... why would anyone complain to the US Embassy for a terrorist action in another country by a group from another country. I guess you and I think differently... I don't look for scapegoats whenever something goes wrong.

there was a bomb

http://www.thaivisa....__fromsearch__1

Chemicals that might be used to make a bomb is not the same as a bomb. Nothing happened.

I live pretty close to Mahachai yet I haven't heard any explosions...

JT.

I lived in Costa Rica for many years. car bombings, assinations you name it. I suppose it depends on you definition of what constitutes a terroist action. I can tell you many many people live in terror there. I can think of no country that is exempt.

What you mentioned, targeted assassinations for specific cause directed at specific individuals, obviously aren't terrorism.

Still scares the crap out of you when one of those car bombs goes off, terrifying!!

Yeah, if that's not "terrorism," then you can't call the southern insurgency "terrorism" either.

Or is one terrorism because it involves Muslims and the other isn't because it involves Catholics?

I don't understand the criticism of the Thai government in this situation.

Israeli and the US have been trying to catch this guy for years... No dice.

He enters Thailand 3 weeks ago and the Thai government and not only arrested him but completely disemboweled his dastardly terror plot.

You need to look at the actions, not the PR... no deaths, no injuries, no damage. Thailand got it right.

Don't be so hard on the Thais, they haven't really had to deal with this type of terror situation before. The events are overwhelming to those with no experience. It is easy for some westerners to criticize, but the UK has had 2 generations raised in the midst of terror,1st with the IRA and then with events like the Pan Am bombing and the the subway bombs. Most Englishmen/women know what to do. Same for France, Spain etc. The US has lived with this since 9/11. In Thailand, terror attacks have been nicely isolated in the deep south and have not touched anyone outside the region. Now that the realpolitik of foreign terrorists is here, they just don't know what to do. Think back to 9/11 in the USA, the Americans, while not has flustered, spent alot of time thrashing about and in that case they had a real terror attack on their hands. Up until then it was just nutters like Tim McVeigh or the Branch Davidians. The same situation holds for the Thais. Yes they had the Bangkok protests, but they were dealing with local problems and no one was threatening foreigners. Not making excuses, but this is going to be a learning curve and the authorities are basically special ed kids being asked to do university level homework.

They never had to deal with this type of terror situation?

How about dealing with it on a daily base for the past 5 years or so in the south?

That doesn't effect tourism and it doesn't effect business in Bangkok.

I don't think the central government is bothered by the insurgency in the South very much.

My riposte is as follows:

#1... I don't see an issue. The Embassy can issue a warning. Why do keep re-stating it? It's not a point of contention.

You obviously have not been reading the posts on this thread. Many. many posters have been complaining that the US Embassy was wrong to issue its threat warning. My point was in response to these posters.

#2.... Wait? So you think that the Thai government acted only after the US Embassy issued the warning? Just because the Thai government publicly responded to the issue doesn't mean that they weren't doing anything before the warning. They produced info about the guy within a couple hours of the US warning... the Thai government obviously had been working on this for a long time but felt the need to be more public about it because of image issues.

Yeah, nothing happened. No deaths, no bombing. An arrest was made... plenty of arrests are made for all sorts of things without our knowledge. I'm sure not every single "terror"-related arrest in the US is made public, either. No harm, no foul... the only thing different is that you/we know about the event. Events in the world don't only start to happen once you are aware of them.

And saving lives/saving face is the same issue... the Thai government doesn't want an event here. There hasn't been any major international terrorist event in Thailand in almost 40 years. I doubt that this was the first attempt or operation that the Thai government has been involved with.

Have I ever said that the Thai government was not taking any action? No, I have not. However, the fact that the Thai government only complained about the US Embassy alert and not providing an alert itself, does indicate that it was only concerned about the issuance of the alert by the embassy. It is patently obvious to the US Embassy that the Thais were not going to issue an alert so that did it themselves. That us why they tool the action they did. I do not know how long you have been here so I am unsure of how much you know of the Thai propensity to hide the facts and not admit there is a problem.

#3... I don't understand. Why would I or anyone have complained to the US embassy if there was a terrorist event in Thailand?

I was only using the US Embassy as an illustration. If you have another nationality, then I would expect that you would complain to that embassy had no warning been issued and you had been caught in the blast - assuming that you survived. If not, then your surviving relatives would certainly have.

#4... You asked why no answers to you post, so I answered.

Are you not aware that rhetorical answers do not require an answer? The question speaks for itself.

#1 We can skip this one... I'm only going to answer for what I think.

#2 Yes, the Thai government won't always be open. But in this case, there is no problem. No bombs, no deaths, nothing. Nothing to talk about. I'm sure there have been other arrests and supposed plots broken up in Thailand and elsewhere that never get reported.

#3 I'm American. But I still wouldn't complain to the US Embassy about an attack in Thailand. Are they planting the bombs?

#4 I took your question about "mobs" to be some sort of statement or commentary about the Thai government but not sure exactly who.

Well, I am not an American but I can see why the US Embassy did what it did. The fact that there was no bomb could well have been due to the fact that the Thais were forced to get off their rear ends and be seen to do something about it. Furthermore, had you been caught in the blast and not survived, your American relatives in the US, if you have any, would be complaining to the US Government about the lack or warning.

I rest my case.

Rest what case? That the warning was OK... yeah, I already agreed with you. I probably shouldn't have replied to your post since I thought your term "anti-American" related to views on foreign policy... but for you "anit-American" meant grievances toward the US Embassy, which I don't have.

However, you're wrong to think that the Thais did nothing until the US warning. They just didn't do anything publicly. Not sure why you think that nothing occurs unless you know about it.

I still don't get the complaining to the embassy part LOL... why would anyone complain to the US Embassy for a terrorist action in another country by a group from another country. I guess you and I think differently... I don't look for scapegoats whenever something goes wrong.

My riposte is as follows:

#1... I don't see an issue. The Embassy can issue a warning. Why do keep re-stating it? It's not a point of contention.

You obviously have not been reading the posts on this thread. Many. many posters have been complaining that the US Embassy was wrong to issue its threat warning. My point was in response to these posters.

#2.... Wait? So you think that the Thai government acted only after the US Embassy issued the warning? Just because the Thai government publicly responded to the issue doesn't mean that they weren't doing anything before the warning. They produced info about the guy within a couple hours of the US warning... the Thai government obviously had been working on this for a long time but felt the need to be more public about it because of image issues.

Yeah, nothing happened. No deaths, no bombing. An arrest was made... plenty of arrests are made for all sorts of things without our knowledge. I'm sure not every single "terror"-related arrest in the US is made public, either. No harm, no foul... the only thing different is that you/we know about the event. Events in the world don't only start to happen once you are aware of them.

And saving lives/saving face is the same issue... the Thai government doesn't want an event here. There hasn't been any major international terrorist event in Thailand in almost 40 years. I doubt that this was the first attempt or operation that the Thai government has been involved with.

Have I ever said that the Thai government was not taking any action? No, I have not. However, the fact that the Thai government only complained about the US Embassy alert and not providing an alert itself, does indicate that it was only concerned about the issuance of the alert by the embassy. It is patently obvious to the US Embassy that the Thais were not going to issue an alert so that did it themselves. That us why they tool the action they did. I do not know how long you have been here so I am unsure of how much you know of the Thai propensity to hide the facts and not admit there is a problem.

#3... I don't understand. Why would I or anyone have complained to the US embassy if there was a terrorist event in Thailand?

I was only using the US Embassy as an illustration. If you have another nationality, then I would expect that you would complain to that embassy had no warning been issued and you had been caught in the blast - assuming that you survived. If not, then your surviving relatives would certainly have.

#4... You asked why no answers to you post, so I answered.

Are you not aware that rhetorical answers do not require an answer? The question speaks for itself.

#1 We can skip this one... I'm only going to answer for what I think.

#2 Yes, the Thai government won't always be open. But in this case, there is no problem. No bombs, no deaths, nothing. Nothing to talk about. I'm sure there have been other arrests and supposed plots broken up in Thailand and elsewhere that never get reported.

#3 I'm American. But I still wouldn't complain to the US Embassy about an attack in Thailand. Are they planting the bombs?

#4 I took your question about "mobs" to be some sort of statement or commentary about the Thai government but not sure exactly who.

But I think one thing we can all agree on is... if terrorists are this easy to obtain confessions from and spill their plans of attack, then we have nothing to worry about.

The guy in custody supposedly confessed to having bomb making materials and having plans to ship them abroad...

He didn't confess to a plan to bomb and take hostages at the Chabad House in BKK and attack Israeli oriented restaurants in the KSR area...

It may be a case of mis-direction.... confessing to something that would make Thai authorities believe they have nothing to fear at home...when in fact.... they may have something very big still to fear.

Yeah, I don't know what he confessed... But I doubt what he confessed, if anything, is what the Thai authorities say he confessed. They're just saying that so that they can give the impression that Bangkok/Thailand is safe.

Thank you for your reply.

1.1. Do you not believe that every embassy in Thailand has the right and responsibly to notify its citizens of any threat to their safety? If not, why not? SURE, THEY CAN. WHY NOT?

Then you agree with the fact that the American Embassy should, irrespective of what the Thai government think, to warn its citizens of an possible impending terrorist threat.

2. Do you not think that, had the US embassy not issued its warning, that the Thai authorities would have informed the Thai public of this threat? NO, THERE WOULD BE NO REASON TO INFORM... NOTHING MUCH HAPPENED.

You say that despite nearly 400 lbs of explosive making material being found in Sakhon Nakhon (on the information provided by the alleged terrorist). Nothing much happened because the US Embassy blew the whistle on the Thai intelligence agencies. Had they not done so, it is highly likely that the Thai government would be scrambling to explain why a terrorist attack had occurred and they had not warned their citizens. As I have stated before, the Thai government, such as it is, prefers to save face rather than lives,

3. Do you trust that Thai Government will act for the benefit of its citizens, or for that matter, any foreigner living here. NO, THEY ACT FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT, JUST LIKE THE GOVERNMENTS OF MOST COUNTRIES.

You live here. I would therefore expect you to be among the loudest complainers to your embassy and on this forum, had the terrorists been successful in achieving their objective.

4. Would any of you buy a used car from this mob? NOT SURE WHO YOU ARE REFERRING TO AS "THIS MOB", BUT I DON'T NEED A USED CAR ANYWAY.

That was a rhetorical question. I am surprised that you answered it. Obviously you miss that.

Follow-ups...

#1... I don't see an issue. The Embassy can issue a warning. Why do keep re-stating it? It's not a point of contention.

#2.... Wait? So you think that the Thai government acted only after the US Embassy issued the warning? Just because the Thai government publicly responded to the issue doesn't mean that they weren't doing anything before the warning. They produced info about the guy within a couple hours of the US warning... the Thai government obviously had been working on this for a long time but felt the need to be more public about it because of image issues.

Yeah, nothing happened. No deaths, no bombing. An arrest was made... plenty of arrests are made for all sorts of things without our knowledge. I'm sure not every single "terror"-related arrest in the US is made public, either. No harm, no foul... the only thing different is that you/we know about the event. Events in the world don't only start to happen once you are aware of them.

And saving lives/saving face is the same issue... the Thai government doesn't want an event here. There hasn't been any major international terrorist event in Thailand in almost 40 years. I doubt that this was the first attempt or operation that the Thai government has been involved with.

#3... I don't understand. Why would I or anyone have complained to the US embassy if there was a terrorist event in Thailand?

#4... You asked why no answers to you post, so I answered.

"The Thai police were waiting for the suspect at the airport after receiving alerts from US and Israeli counter-terrorist agencies, which had advance information about the coming attack. According to debkafile's intelligence sources, the tip-off originated with Lebanese nationals living in Bangkok who had been approached for assistance. Those informants, who did not trust the local authorities to act, went straight to Western and Israeli contacts, who then published terror alerts to US and Israeli travelers."

It seems the US & Israel didn't tell the Thais until the last moment.

Fearful the Thai Police would tip off the suspects?

I think more likely is that the Thai government was already working on this and had already tracked and/or arrested the guy but once the alert went public felt the need for what they felt was the face-saving and tourism-calming PR statements and theater actions.

But I think one thing we can all agree on is... if terrorists are this easy to obtain confessions from and spill their plans of attack, then we have nothing to worry about.

I note that not one of the anti-American posters have even bothered to answer any of my questions posed in my post #148. Why not? Are they too difficult for any of you to answer?

Hmmm... probably no answers due to the loaded term "anti-American."

Most people probably don't identify themselves as such just because they disagree with some of its foreign policy.

But your questions are easy and I don't see what they have to do with the US or its foreign policy. My answers in CAPS...

1. Do you not believe that every embassy in Thailand has the right and responsibly to notify its citizens of any threat to their safety? If not, why not? SURE, THEY CAN. WHY NOT?

2. Do you not think that, had the US embassy not issued its warning, that the Thai authorities would have informed the Thai public of this threat? NO, THERE WOULD BE NO REASON TO INFORM... NOTHING MUCH HAPPENED.

3. Do you trust that Thai Government will act for the benefit of its citizens, or for that matter, any foreigner living here. NO, THEY ACT FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT, JUST LIKE THE GOVERNMENTS OF MOST COUNTRIES.

4. Would any of you buy a used car from this mob? NOT SURE WHO YOU ARE REFERRING TO AS "THIS MOB", BUT I DON'T NEED A USED CAR ANYWAY.

Ah, more "evidence" for the US to drum up support for its war against Iran.

Easy question.

I came to Thailand, i like it here. Thats the answer.

I don't need the US government.

So have you considered renouncing your citizenship?

Well, it looks like the fascist comments have started. You can't criticize the government or you are anti-American and need to renounce citizenship?

Erobando next you will tell us their is no trouble in the South. Jingthing is right you should grow up and stop being anti Fact.

Dude, what are you writing about? That has nothing to do with my posts.

Please tell me where in the article it states that Hezbollah is infiltrating the southern insurgency! That's what Jingthing claimed... but the article doesn't claim that or even mention the insurgency at all.

No, I don't "favor Iran over America and Israel." I don't view international conflicts like some sporting event in which one roots for one side or another. I just don't like wars. And claiming that the other side is irrational, in "revenge mode," or act differently that "civilized" nations is method used by govermments to gain popular support for their wars.

In the end, the ultimate motive for all wars is the same... to help some elite group enhance their economic position. Most citizins of a country won't benefit and, in fact, will end up paying for it. The US has been involved in quite a few offensive wars lately so, yes, I'm skeptical of it's reasonings. IMO this upcoming war with Iran will escalate due to business interests, particularly with the Saudis.

Not all wars are wars of choice. Iraq was. Iran may not be.

Really. How is the choice level different?

Certainly, NATO's actions in Libya were by choice. The UK and France were initially more gung-ho about it but the US certainly played their part.

The US wants a war here but the difference with the Libya is that it will harder to get UN approval and general international support.

China and Russia didn't really care about Libya; they were happy to abstain from voting and then condemn the action later. One or both are more likely to veto any action against Iran.

No, you claimed that article states that Hezbollah is getting inolved in the "Thailand specific conflict." But the article does not state that at all.

It claims that Hezbollah is providing services and/or trying to recruit from among Muslims in Thailand... My statement is that there are Muslims in Thailand outside the area and not involved with the conflict yet you jump to the conclusion that the Hezbollah is infiltrating itself in the insurgency. The article does not state that.

If they are teaching Thai children to hate Jews and Israelis, they are actively radicalizing every Thai they touch. Such brainwashed Thais are perfect terror recruits. Grow up.

Grow up? Dude, you're reading things into the article that aren't there. ... "infiltrating in their charming way into the Thailand specific conflict" would mean that they're getting involved in the insurgency in the far south.

The article states nothing of the sort... there's no mention of the insurgency, nor is there mention that they are focusing on 3-4 provinces in which it exists.

It claims they are recruiting "agents" but it doesn't state the purpose.

What exactly is "revenge mode?" How do sovereign nations switch from "normal mode" to this "revenge mode?" Do they use a switch or a button? Are there additional modes as well?

"Revenge mode" sounds like empty rhetoric used by spin machines to stir people up, get them ready for war (aka "fightin' mode").

It's a manner of speaking. I get the feeling from direct, clear statements coming out of Iran that they fully intend to take revenge. I call that revenge mode. You can call it potato salad for all I care. Same difference. It's just semantics games with you anyway. Look, it's OK to favor Iran over America and Israel. Plenty of people do. That's what makes ... wars. Yes there is still hope this won't escalate but I wouldn't bet too much on it.

No, I don't "favor Iran over America and Israel." I don't view international conflicts like some sporting event in which one roots for one side or another. I just don't like wars. And claiming that the other side is irrational, in "revenge mode," or act differently that "civilized" nations is method used by govermments to gain popular support for their wars.

In the end, the ultimate motive for all wars is the same... to help some elite group enhance their economic position. Most citizins of a country won't benefit and, in fact, will end up paying for it. The US has been involved in quite a few offensive wars lately so, yes, I'm skeptical of it's reasonings. IMO this upcoming war with Iran will escalate due to business interests, particularly with the Saudis.

Wow! I naively hadn't considered that Iranian funded Hezbollah may be infiltrating in their charming way into the Thailand specific conflict. Its not really surprising as this is a pattern coming from Iran. Locals in Afghanistan have described the Iranian influence as like a cancer. I guess it is worth considering now that thanks to Iran, the southern conflict in Thailand and the external conflict in the middle east may be considered related and linked.

The article says nothing about the insurgency within the southern provinces that made up the former sultanate. There are Muslims in many other parts of Thailand that have nothing to do with that conflict. Some are also ethnic Malay but don't speak yawi, some ethnic Thai, some other ethnicities... and no connection to the idea of Patani Liberation/Independence.

You're jumping to conclusions.

I never said all Thai Muslims were in the south or all Thai Muslims were involved in political insurgency. Geez!

No, you claimed that article states that Hezbollah is getting inolved in the "Thailand specific conflict." But the article does not state that at all.

It claims that Hezbollah is providing services and/or trying to recruit from among Muslims in Thailand... My statement is that there are Muslims in Thailand outside the area and not involved with the conflict yet you jump to the conclusion that the Hezbollah is infiltrating itself in the insurgency. The article does not state that.

Wow! I naively hadn't considered that Iranian funded Hezbollah may be infiltrating in their charming way into the Thailand specific conflict. Its not really surprising as this is a pattern coming from Iran. Locals in Afghanistan have described the Iranian influence as like a cancer. I guess it is worth considering now that thanks to Iran, the southern conflict in Thailand and the external conflict in the middle east may be considered related and linked.

The article says nothing about the insurgency within the southern provinces that made up the former sultanate. There are Muslims in many other parts of Thailand that have nothing to do with that conflict. Some are also ethnic Malay but don't speak yawi, some ethnic Thai, some other ethnicities... and no connection to the idea of Patani Liberation/Independence.

You're jumping to conclusions.

Iran funds Hezbollah. Iran is in revenge mode. Get the picture? I think you do but for some reason won't acknowledge it.

What exactly is "revenge mode?" How do sovereign nations switch from "normal mode" to this "revenge mode?" Do they use a switch or a button? Are there additional modes as well?

"Revenge mode" sounds like empty rhetoric used by spin machines to stir people up, get them ready for war (aka "fightin' mode").

Oh please, I am not talking about the USA. I'm talking about Iran's heavy involvement in a number of middle eastern countries.

You mean like Israel and Saudi Arabia? Iran just does the same as any other regional power in any other part of the world... support groups with similar causes and/or support enemies of their enemies.

It's a bit of a stretch to conclude that Iran is therefore planning terrorist activities in Thailand or sending Hezbollah (whose interest is in their home of Lebanon, not SE Asia LOL) half way around the world to do their dirty work.

And, please, tell me, what would be the benefit to either Iran or Hezbollah of such actions?

I don't care whether these guys were Hezbollah, Lebanese, Swedes, Eskimos, dwarfs or transvestites... I don't care what country they came from or what nationality they claim. The fact that they were plotting a bombing attack aimed at killing innocent civilians is enough... that's all that matters.

How is it a fact that these people were plotting a bomb attack aimed at innocent civilians? The only fact is that Thai government said that there was a plot and then it was abondoned.

Anyone who has been here in Thailand long enough should know to take official Thai government statements with a grain of salt. PR and actual actions are two different things.