erobando

A question for the people living in flooded areas and complaining about the BBB.... why don't you go somewhere dry?

One can rent a nice little guest house in Khorat for about 12,000 Baht per month. I know there are homestays in Kanchanaburi offering flood victims rates of 100 Baht per night.

Or, if one doesn't want or can't spend any money, one can go to the Farang Flood Victim Center in Sukhimvit. There one can stay for FREE, get 2 FREE MEALS and get FREE DRINKING WATER. The FREE MEALS and FREE DRINKING WATER must be worth at least 200 Baht per day... Stay for 1 month, and you've made a sweet 6,000 Baht, which is a nice compliment to the 5,000 government money coming your way.

I have to drive my car from BangSue MRT to Huahin later today,about 6PM;can anyone give me accurate current information and reccomend a route to Huahin that is fairly dry?

You can take the expressway to Rama 2 Road.

Rama 2 is fine all the way through until it ends at Phet Kasem /Hwy 4. Then go south!

I'm not asking that the Governor of Bangkok talk about the other areas, but the government has that responsibility to do so, and they haven't. They've utterly failed in this. My point was people hear his pompous crowing about Bangkok being dry at their expense and nobody is being told why and for how long. Perhaps the governor doesn't have that responsibility nor care, but others do and should.

What is the purpose of the BBB? It's to stop the flow of water into Bangkok, leaving the water to build up and stagnate in the north parts. What is the plan to get rid of the water? Hell or high water, it won't go through Bangkok.

The water doesn't just sit at the BBB. Much of it is pushed to lower levels east, some is pumped into the Chao Phraya.

Anyway, the BBB protects only a small portion of Bangkok.

The water is flowing through Bangkok now. Many parts of Bangkok are flooded already and more parts will continue to be flooded.

North of Bangkok will certainly be dry before all of Bangkok is.

The government, he said, should have clearly communicate the need to protect inner Bangkok to affected residents at the edge of the capital and reach some form of agreement even before the flood barriers were installed.

This is one area where this government has continued to fail the people. The communication since this whole ordeal has started has been abysmal to say the least. The government reminds me of a giant octopus. There is a huge nerve center surrounded by eight arms and each of those arms move independent of each other. Each of these arms gives a totally different story to he people. Which one to believe? The head basically sits there and allows the arms to do as they will.

After months of this lack of communication and people asking for answers, they still refuse to give any information. How much longer will people north of the barrier have to suffer? What is the plan to get rid of the black murky water north of the barrier? What will the government do to assist those after the water is gone? Eight arms and no answer. To be fair the arms and center do work together time to time. Much like the octopus fleeing from danger or when the government needs damage control.

What people do read and hear is the Bangkok Governor spouting about his gift to Bangkok, and Bangkok only, which is a dry New Year. People won't forget that and that resentment will, and has in some cases, reach a boiling point. While Bangkok parties and enjoys their dry New Year, will those north of Bangkok still be forced to live in disease laden water? Perception goes a long way. The government has failed in providing answers.

Why would the Governor of Bangkok talk about areas outside of Bangkok.

Also, if Bangkok is dry, then that means the areas north of Bangkok are dry, too, because the water has already passed.

We want to go to Kanchanaburi later today..apparently the only way is out to Samut Sakhon, then take the 3094 to Nakhon Pathon and onwards. However are a little worried about getting back in a day or two as reports say Samut Sakhon is next for the water.........any views/advice please

The flooding is moving very slowly. The major roads in Samut Sakhon will still be OK for a few days.

I don't know the specific route to which you are referring (maybe Rama 2 to Hwy 3097 to Phet Khasem in Muang Nakhom Pathom?) and I don't know the status of roads in Nakhom Pathom.

Worst case scenario is you would need to take a detour through Samut Sangkram.

I've looked around in the forums and could not find this information so I hope this is the right place for my question.

My GF is flying into Bangkok on Dec 30 and after about 3 days there we wanted to go south for a few days on a beach before turning back north. Does anybody know if these floodwaters are expected to cause trouble further south as they recede from the Bangkok area? A friend suggested we look at Cha-am as it is not quite the scene of other beaches and is relatively quiet but as I look at the map it seems to be close enough that it could be in the path.

Anyway, any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

No, the current flooding in central Thailand will not reach Cha-Am.

TAWP's and Nisa's posts are rational... the people complaining that the flood should be "shared equally" are expressing with emotion only.

The goal of the government is too protect what it can and minimize damage as much as possible.

Once an area is flooded, it's flooded. In the grand scheme of things it makes little difference if the flood stays 40 days or 30 days; and it makes little difference if the flood height is 80 cm or 60 cm..

I don't see how anyone can argue with "inmates running the asylum" comment... people in some areas are interfering with the flood management process by removing flood barriers, FROC needs to negotiate with locals rather than implement their plan, law enforcement is unable/unwilling to protect the flood management process.

That's the very definition of "inmates running the asylum."

Unfortunately, your desire to justify your position by claiming everyone putting forth a rational argument for why those receiving the benefits of the sacrifice should be forced to pay for the privilege are just making "emotional arguments" is completely disingenuous. You can believe anything you would like, but it does not make you correct, and it smacks of you trying to relieve your guilty conscience.

People aren't being sacrificed. They're flooded because there's a whole bunch of water that's gradually drifting to the south. Blocking the flow of the flood to Inner Bangkok didn't create the flood.

I don't live in BKK. I'll be flooded soon enough.

I don't feel guilty nor do I believe in existence of a "conscience."

But allowing more floodwater into inner BKK won't undo anyone's flood.

TAWP's and Nisa's posts are rational... the people complaining that the flood should be "shared equally" are expressing with emotion only.

The goal of the government is too protect what it can and minimize damage as much as possible.

Once an area is flooded, it's flooded. In the grand scheme of things it makes little difference if the flood stays 40 days or 30 days; and it makes little difference if the flood height is 80 cm or 60 cm..

I don't see how anyone can argue with "inmates running the asylum" comment... people in some areas are interfering with the flood management process by removing flood barriers, FROC needs to negotiate with locals rather than implement their plan, law enforcement is unable/unwilling to protect the flood management process.

That's the very definition of "inmates running the asylum."

You obviously never lived in a flooded house the dept of the water makes a big difference. Up to 30cm in the house its livable. Above that the damage is a lot more. We had 70cm in the street and 20cm in the house.

so tell me where you get your wisdom from.

I am saying the people behind the big bags should be compensated (not saying flood bkk). The greater good is not a one way road.

The flood water drop will be minimal... that's the point. I thought that people with flood damage will receive compensation.

This topic clearly shows how people that are affected are no-where near objective or even rational at most times.

Also shows that people who are not affected are not objective either. Also they don't see how others are sacrificed and would not pay to stay dry.

I am already objective.. these bags wont affect me or make the water any less here. Still flooded here.

TAWP's and Nisa's posts are rational... the people complaining that the flood should be "shared equally" are expressing with emotion only.

The goal of the government is too protect what it can and minimize damage as much as possible.

Once an area is flooded, it's flooded. In the grand scheme of things it makes little difference if the flood stays 40 days or 30 days; and it makes little difference if the flood height is 80 cm or 60 cm..

I don't see how anyone can argue with "inmates running the asylum" comment... people in some areas are interfering with the flood management process by removing flood barriers, FROC needs to negotiate with locals rather than implement their plan, law enforcement is unable/unwilling to protect the flood management process.

That's the very definition of "inmates running the asylum."

Does anyone actually think Geologists are on the Pop Societal Radar except in times of crisis?

Of course he is generally unheard of, EXCEPT when large scale geological issues, are the issue of the day.

Yes, exactly.

And, most likely, this specific research was from 1995-1999 because it was commissioned/funded due to public/government interest after the floods in 1994.

The plan has a major deficiency in that it accepts that factories and other large scale developments can be built in high risk flood zones. If people want to build there, then they should assume 100% of the risk and they should be held liable for the cleanup of their pollution caused when the flood waters hit them spreading toxic waste and the like. Why collect tax for compensation for these people? The tax will never be enough to cover the losses. In effect ,he is advocating the subsidization of the greedy land developers. If the academic was academically inclined, he'd open a text book on river systems and flood plains and learn about the benefits of leaving some lands undeveloped and the benefit of leaving swamps and marshland in place. They are nature's sponges.

The textbook, would that be the one he wrote? High property taxes on flood zones for flow obstructing use would encourage those thinking of building there to alter plans and those already there to move. How you manage to distort that into a subsidy for land developers trying to sell land that has become uneconomical is beyond logic.

Yeah, I'm not sure how g-kid reached the conclusion that this is to subsidize land developers.

They're taxing the land developers because their developments in those areas are part of the problem... they are taking away from drainage and water retention areas. So the tax will... 1) Discourage people to build elsewhere (unlikely due to the lower real estate costs); or 2) Raise money to help create alternative drainage solutions.

And just because we haven't heard of him, it doesn't mean that he is some "crackpot" or "obscure" professor. How many of us here are in academia and study soil erosion? I'd guess few or none. So why would anyone expect to hear of him? Research scientists aren't able to do research in academia if they can't get their work funded; they get funding because qualified people think the research is worthwhile.

And why are people claiming this is self-serving? Do people think he's leading a public campaign for his ideas?

More likely, the media are seeking out people that study flood management, soil erosion, etc., because there is public interest in the subjects now.

If people want to know details of what researchers are studying in these areas, you need to seek out and read scientific journals.

Of course, the basic research isn't going to be covered by the general media in times that there is little public interest. So, therefore, we won't know any of these people and they will seem like they are "coming out of nowhere."

Why are people still posting about the big US boat? It's been like 3 weeks since that "story" came out. The floodwater wouldn't be deep enough for it to float in anyway.

Everyone is better off it goes back to launching missiles at Kabul or Tripoli or wherever.

You could use 'big US boat' instead of the 1000 boats considered by the thai expert to move the water down the canals.

I like that idea. It contains all of the best qualities of the 1,000 boats and the Big Bag Barrier plans.

Another option would be for the US to launch missiles at some point in the middle of the flood... anywhere outside of Inner Bangkok will do.

The Big Hole created by the missiles would act like the sink of a bathtub and suck all of the water away. If I remember my history correctly, that's how the US helped Japan end floods in Hiroshima and Nagasaki back in the 1940's.

But it's misleading to state that they refused aid. Countries offering aid normally present the country facing disaster with proposals of what aid they are able and willing to give, and the recipient nation then advises what, if any of the available offers they will accept based on their needs.

It's like when I went to the supermarket yesterday. I bought some rib steaks because I needed some beef. I didn't refuse to buy chicken or pork, I just didn't need them, so to describe it as a refusal would be misleading.

Why did you refuse chicken? What's wrong with chicken? Once 20 years ago you wee hungry and you ate some chicken and then you felt better... if it wasn't for the chicken, you'd be speaking hungry duck.

BTW, I'm going to post every day for the next month about how you foolish you were to refuse chicken.

Why are people still posting about the big US boat? It's been like 3 weeks since that "story" came out. The floodwater wouldn't be deep enough for it to float in anyway.

Everyone is better off it goes back to launching missiles at Kabul or Tripoli or wherever.

Misleading headline. It's lowest in a decade not decades. But reporters like making things up to try to scare people. In any case, consumer confidence of 62 is pretty good. If that's as bad as things get then we should all be out celebrating.

Maybe the title means that it's taken decades of mismanagement to achieve the abysmal rating. It's not that easy to do overnight.

I view the article as somewhat positive, congratulating everyone on reach the level of abysmalness after such a long effort.

I was thinking the same thing (actually, I was thinking I must be reading the map wrong...its in Thai, so who knows). But, from my read of the elevation map posted (Thanks to the poster, just the same), central Bangkok appears to be some of the lowest lying areas of greater Bangkok. Someone correct me if I'm wrong (you can even get all high and mighty about it, if you wish, I won't mind).

I won't get high and mighty, I don't think...

But the areas to the east of what they're calling Inner Bangkok are very low, so more water will flow there.

If they are able to slow down flow into Inner Bangkok, which they've been doing, even more water can be moved to the east.

Much of Western Bangkok is higher than the east, but the water is coming from directly above it (Nonthaburi).

Most of the land alongside the Chao Phraya is somewhat higher than other parts of Western Bangkok, so the water won't drift towards the river.

There is also flooding in Nontaburi so the areas that will next likely get the flooding are SW Bangkok and Samut Sakhon.

that elevation map is painful to look at. My house (west bkk) has been under a meter+ water for two weeks and it's elevation is higher that most other parts of the city.

I am no expert but pretty sure water should flow high to low. Talk to me until your blue in the face about the need to save inner Bangkok (what ever that means) but I want my home back.

The problem for those in Western Bangkok is that it's lower than Nonthaburi.

The US has over $20 Billion invested in Thailand businesses. Thailand is not just a strong trading partner of the US with US exports to Thailand rising considerably these last years but Thailand continues to work closely and be a strong ally of the US when it comes to terrorism and drug trafficking. Thailand is also situated near a number of communist countries as well as military dictatorship. Bottom line is Thailand is a strong and important alley of the United States.

Thailand has aided and fought with the US in Vietnam and Korea as well as supporting operations after 9/11 and participating in the Iraq war and rebuilding efforts in Afganastan and Iraq as well as serving as a logistics hub for operations. Not to mention Thailand provided assistance to the US during Katrina that including 60 doctors.

The bolded part hasn't been relevant for 20 years. The US engages in joint military activities with Vietnam, too. The military dictatorship (I assume Myanmar) is irrelevant.

The US is interested in a strong Thailand (and Vietnam and others in the area) because it helps provide some balance of power versus China... but the type of government isn't important.

And certainly business investments are the most important reasons for US interest.

An employee told me that there is now a small amount of water (maybe 5cm) on Rama 2 Road around Sois 5 to 11.

This location is coming from Suk Sawat before reaching the Expressway.

Water had started coming up from the drains at the market there a couple of days ago.

I lived in Vietnam for over 10 years, and while it is no secret that the Communist authorities in VN are soulless, brutal thugs, they would never have permitted a flood situation to descend into such an absurd public farce as we are seeing here.

First, they would have mobilised the entire armed forces.

Second, they would have declared martial law, so that, for example, any hobbledehoy who started messing around with flood defences could be shot on the spot for endangering national security

As to the first and second points, the Vietnamese Government has the advantage of actually being in charge of, not in competition with, their armed forces.

What 10 years did RickBradford live in Vietnam? 1978-1988?

Anyway, none of the government systems in the region are particularly open like a "western style" democracy.

Vietnam and Thailand are pretty similar in that a small group of people who control things. The difference is just in the details of how those people fight for power.

And like all developing countries, there's corruption particularly at the local level.

Most governments, democratic or not, would not allow people to destroy flood defenses.

Here, the police don't stop them because it's in their interest not to.

The central government negotiates with the perpetrators LOL because it's in their political interests to do so.

The opposition suggests potential riots because its in its interests to do so.

Airport occupation, business district occupation and destruction, flood politics/mismanagement. Thailand has its own game.

I'm fine with it but I'm not convinced that it is particularly advantageous to most of the population.

I don't know how they make these predictions. And anyways, look at all they have gotten wrong so far...sure, it might not flood, but it also might flood...they need to stop pretending that they know what is going to happen and admit that they are all incompetent.

Just by viewing an elevation map one can see any flooding to inner Bangkok will be minimal.

I don't see it as sacrificing his sister at all.

A vocal Thaksin would be seen as undermining PM Yingluck's authority.

He might have placed her there but he doesn't want her to appear powerless or as a puppet.

It's a bit rich complaining about criticism and politicing from the opposition considering Phua Thai never managed a single constructive suggestion in all their time in opposiion.

If you believe Puea Thai=Red Shirt, their specialty is in burning. For flood, they have no clue!

Then why don't they put that to good use? Water doesn't boil but oil does. Poor some oil on the floodwater, set it on fire and then boil it away. Crisis over.

I agree with the article 100%. PM Yingluck needs to come out and state that she's against the flood. No more wavering.

w11guy might be a little extreme but he's right that any flooding to the Silom area will be minimal. It's higher up than surrounding areas.

Water won't be high and won't stay for long. The major long-term floods will be to the east down to parts Samut Prakan and in Thonburi.through to Samut Sakhon.

Should a friday morning run to BKK using Rama 2 into town, then expressway to Chaengwattana / tiwanon be ok? Not sure if I should take my sedan in, or just Bus it. Need to get into town to clean the house.

BTW, water is still dropping in Pak kret area - still need a boat but things seem to be improving on the north part of bkk west of the river.

Rama 2 Road through to the expressway is likely still OK on Friday morning.