OZONE

Finally someone not complaining about the service or anything about thailand

Its rare but it happens from time to time

The following info was published for the year of 2005. It seems the US has the 15.2 rating

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Table 1

TABLE 1. Number, crude rates*, and ratios of firearm- and motor-vehicle-related

deaths, by decedents' state of residence

================================================================================

===============

Firearm-related deaths Motor-vehicle-related deaths

---------------------- ----------------------------

State No. Rate No. Rate Ratio

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alabama 928 22.7 1,225 30.0 0.76

Alaska 98 17.2 102 17.9 0.96

Arizona 696 18.6 814 21.7 0.86

Arkansas 483 20.4 639 26.9 0.76

California 5,064 16.7 5,009 16.5 1.01

Colorado 429 12.7 586 17.4 0.73

Connecticut 287 8.7 335 10.2 0.86

Delaware 53 7.8 106 15.6 0.50

District of Columbia 344 57.5 66 11.0 5.21

Florida 2,323 17.5 2,517 19.0 0.92

Georgia 1,377 20.8 1,466 22.1 0.94

Hawaii 57 5.0 140 12.3 0.41

Idaho 145 14.0 252 24.3 0.58

Illinois 1,574 13.6 1,667 14.4 0.94

Indiana 722 12.9 1,047 18.7 0.69

Iowa 241 8.6 503 18.0 0.48

Kansas 344 13.8 440 17.6 0.78

Kentucky 605 16.3 821 22.1 0.74

Louisiana 1,101 25.9 869 20.4 1.27

Maine 123 10.0 196 15.9 0.63

Maryland 708 14.6 708 14.6 1.00

Massachusetts 307 5.1 614 10.2 0.50

Michigan 1,498 16.0 1,513 16.2 0.99

Minnesota 351 7.9 598 13.5 0.59

Mississippi 614 23.7 812 31.3 0.76

Missouri 942 18.3 1,023 19.8 0.92

Montana 144 17.8 181 22.4 0.80

Nebraska 169 10.6 300 18.8 0.56

Nevada 333 25.9 272 21.2 1.22

New Hampshire 83 7.5 153 13.8 0.54

New Jersey 428 5.5 857 11.0 0.50

New Mexico 288 18.6 431 27.8 0.67

New York 2,515 13.9 2,226 12.3 1.13

North Carolina 1,265 18.8 1,407 20.9 0.90

North Dakota 45 7.1 98 15.4 0.46

Ohio 1,284 11.7 1,656 15.1 0.78

Oklahoma 503 15.8 680 21.4 0.74

Oregon 367 12.6 500 17.1 0.73

Pennsylvania 1,302 10.9 1,723 14.4 0.76

Rhode Island 55 5.5 93 9.3 0.59

South Carolina 619 17.4 897 25.2 0.69

South Dakota 75 10.7 146 20.8 0.51

Tennessee 1,003 20.3 1,161 23.4 0.86

Texas 3,727 21.5 3,229 18.6 1.15

Utah 214 12.1 269 15.2 0.80

Vermont 82 14.5 91 16.0 0.90

Virginia 984 15.7 965 15.4 1.02

Washington 550 11.0 768 15.3 0.72

West Virginia 292 16.2 431 23.9 0.68

Wisconsin 491 9.9 823 16.6 0.60

Wyoming 85 18.5 111 24.1 0.77

Total 38,317 15.2 43,536 17.3 0.88

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Crude death rates per 100,000; rates should not be compared between states because of

differing age, sex, and race distributions.

+ These data may differ from estimates of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's

Fatal Accident Reporting System because deaths occurring on both public and nonpublic

roadways are included.

Source: Mortality data tapes from CDC's National Center for Health Statistics for number of

deaths; U.S. Bureau of the Census for annual population estimates.

==========================================================================

I just had a bit of a look around in google. If i am wrong, please correct me.

I found for:

-Brazil a murder rate of 22.98 per 100 000

-Thailand a murder rate of 15.2 per 100 000

-US a murder rate of 6.8

-Scotland 13.8

-England and wales 2.6

http://www.laworderreferendum.org.nz/Data.htm

Basically, i am still waiting for any substance in the argument that Thailand as a country has less murders than a western country.

I think religion with an invisible man involed is not something i will follow. Buddism is what im trying to get into but still havent decided yet.

To me most religions have funny stories that I just can believe happend

Buddism is really not a religion, its more of a Philosophy.

Nevertheless, I think the op must be smoking something awful for he forgot this is NOT Thailand related.

BTW, religion is the worse for causing war and death (excluding greed).

Dont forget in those stats they include all of Thailand which im sure the bulk of it is done down the south near the border. Teachers and police get killed there nearly everyday by shootings etc.

It became even so bad that most drive-by's here don't even get investigated.

Upcountry many murders never get investigated, or even declared as such as police is often reluctant to destabilise the established order between the clans.

So if the police didn't investigate these crimes how do you know if they even existed? and where on earth did you get these info without it being recorded?

Like the old saying goes "If the tree fell in the forrest and NOONE was around, did it make a sound"?

H_ll not sure if that a good analogy but its the only one i have

Theres a few females I'd like to find again!

Speaking of which, has anybody seen Nok from the Big Horn in Pattaya, I can't get hold of her

Somebody else is holding her

and finding out she is a LADY BOY

Which one is better? Bigger/less crowded?

Does size really matter?

Intelligent people will always take a back seat to the beatiful ones in the land of LOS.

Oh how right you are, i mean can you just imagine where the good Dr Thaksin would be if he had not been gifted with such good looks?

Very good point. And on that note I'll retract my last posts

Generally, it is very unsafe safe in Thailand.

Only so far westerners as well as Thais are rarely the target as only small numbers move outside of the established tourist and expat zones their usual stomping grounds, which are highly may or may not be policed by uniformed and plainclothes police.

Edited rash generalisation.

I (and I know of others like me) have walked alone through the slums of Din Daeng and Klong Toey, the back streets of Samut Prakarn, the small village sois in Isaan, Trat, Songkhla... and many other provinces, Patpong 1 and 2, Walking Street, the Cambodia-Thai border markets, the Laos-Thai border markets, the Myanmar-Thai border markets, as well as the bustling city streets of Bangkok... mostly without a policeman anywhere in sight.

Last year I went to the outdoor Linkin Park concert at Impact Arena... and when I was stationed in Bangkok I regularly went to Thai nightclubs and bars in preference to the lower Sukhumvit area. I am now a regular attendee at many of the Thai nightclubs on Pattaya's 3rd road.

I have never been accosted.

What would it help the debate that as a rescue volonteer i do collect the injured and dead in some of the areas mentioned?

Not much i fear, you appear to have made up your mind already: Thailand is safe because *you* have never been accosted.

Well, the people i collect have been accosted. I guess their perception differs slightly from yours...

If you volunteered I'm sure you still have pictures of yourself in uniform, group photos, incidents happend, Can you please provided to us so we may finally believe you for a change? It seems with every topic, some how, some way youve "done it", did it or happend to you. Please provide us with something so to shut us (me) up.

In Thailand, the Maid could have a Master degree, speak perfect english and not progress more than a head maid if she was ugly. This is one of the major negativity about Thailand. In other word, it could have zero to do with class but everything focused on apperance. Intelligent people will always take a back seat to the beatiful ones in the land of LOS.

Generally it is quite safe in Thailand, that is why we are still here.

I tend to agree with you I've been living in a small village for years and the crime in the area is very high.There have been a couple of murders between the rural folk and the police tend to do nothing about it. I asked my wife why and she says the police will only put effort into investigating if the victim was influential or the family has tea money available to donate. The majority of crime I have seen and heard of has been drunken violence especially with knives and theft. I don't feel threatened because I stay clear of Thais drinking and keep a low profile not flaunting perceived wealth in their faces. Though we have new vehicles and a house my wife tells everyone that they are financed and we have several years of payments to make. Also Thais know that any violent crime against a foreigner brings media hence government attention and they are more likely to get caught.

This is one of the most bogus statement made here!

What you're saying is you allowed your family to stayed in violent village and know its unsafe?..Oh pleasee.....any person with common sense would have moved their family out of there and into a safer area. And, give me a break about the police force will only investigate and protect influential family. That is such an old fairry tales. PLease provide some truth for us all to see than I'll buy into it or did you just heard that from another angry thai hating expat? "

BTW, if a violent crime were committed against a foreigner in a small muu baan, I highly doubt the media would make it a feature story. There are thousands of expat curently residing all around these so called Muu baan and the thais are so used to seeing us daily that we (foreigners) are beginning not to be that special anymore eh'.

Like anywhere else in the world, If you stay away from the troubled areas than trouble would most likely stay away from you. Common sense folks!

yes , double pricing is for those who are happy to be taken advantage of on grounds of race.

this second doubling to 400b should be music to the ears and pleasure to the pockets of those who believe that all foriegners are rich , and all thais are poor , (even the ones turning up at the parks in 2 million baht suv's with 21st century camping equipment and tv's and dvd's ) and its our duty to patronisingly and sheepishly pay them what they unfairly demand of us.

I spent over one million baht in Khao Sok National Park last year. I go there every week and all I'm seeing is more cheap charlie mass tourism operators coming in to party. I've seen nothing done to help make this wonderful place a true natural/national treasure.

If you save your receipt you wouldn't have to keep paying entry fee

Say what? I do that already. Each time a new westerner arrives, I must purchase a new park ticket. I don't get where you're coming from... sorry, please explain.

huh?

so ... you are taking 1000 new foriegners a week to the park?

and thats not counting his/her immediate family, friends and long distance relatives

Galong - 1000 foreigner to the park every week? you're a busy man for sure

OP, are you looking for a driver and mini-bus for the duration of 3 days /2 nights?

The problem there is that Insurance is a choice, the same people that dont have insurance will spend 45 bucks on Cable TV, by their kids a couple 50 dollar video games a month, smoke ciggs that cost 5 bucks a pack, alcohol, half their paycheck on lottery tickets.

If a person wants insurance in the states its available, its good, and it will keep you from going bankrupt.

Thats the thing about the USA, you have the choice to improve your life or ###### it up, the choice is yours.

More importantly if you're dying from a car wreck you wont be thrown in a pick up truck or stuck in the back of a mini van ambulance in traffic that wont yield.

“The problem there is that Insurance is a choice, the same people that dont have insurance will spend 45 bucks on Cable TV, by their kids a couple 50 dollar video games a month, smoke ciggs that cost 5 bucks a pack, alcohol, half their paycheck on lottery tickets.”

Come on now. That describes people who don’t have insurance? That’s a bit all-inclusive and stereotyping, don’t you think? I don’t doubt there are plenty of people who come close to matching that description, but certainly not all.

Of course it’s a choice. But it’s a choice that depends on your income

“If a person wants insurance in the states its available, its good, and it will keep you from going bankrupt.”

Medical insurance plans are also available in Thailand, and priced much less than similar plans in the USA.

“More importantly if you're dying from a car wreck you wont be thrown in a pick up truck or stuck in the back of a mini van ambulance in traffic that wont yield.”

No question about it. Bouncing around in an ambulance in the US would be more comfortable than bouncing around in the back of a compact pickup in Thailand. On the other hand, “if you’re dying from a car wreck” there’s no guarantee of getting to hospital alive in the USA either.

So then do you live in the USA but visit Thailand? If that’s the case and if such a dreadful accident scenario were to happen to you while you’re in Thailand, you might still end up stuck in a traffic jam or tossed in the back of a pickup on your way to a hospital, unless somehow rubbing your Blue Cross card will instantly teleport you to an ER in the USA. I would hope such an accident would never befall you or anyone, but it can and does happen. Does that mean such a prospect would deter you from ever living in Thailand even visiting at all?

You still haven’t said how much your monthly insurance rates are. Just a rough hint is fine. $300 per month? $400? More? Less? Inquiring minds want to know.

If you had to purchased insuranace on your own without any compensation from any company, it could be anywhere from $500-900 and more. It would all depends on the type of coverage. Ofcourse this would not include deductibles and may not include dental.

The best I have ever seen Bangkok streets,

In the coming future there will be no street vendors allowed. That is if Thailand wants to catch up with just the rest of Asia.

It really is nice to be able to not only walk down the streets but not to have cars stopping and slowing down traffic while they either shop, or drop off or pick up products. Great streets great traffic flow.

Has anyone noticed also how quite it is now?

The future, I hope is near. less noise, less traffic and ability to walk on the streets.

IMO, that would be absolutely dreadful. I enjoyed the street vendor food more so than the restaurants. Thailand wouldn't be Thailand without them.

yes , double pricing is for those who are happy to be taken advantage of on grounds of race.

this second doubling to 400b should be music to the ears and pleasure to the pockets of those who believe that all foriegners are rich , and all thais are poor , (even the ones turning up at the parks in 2 million baht suv's with 21st century camping equipment and tv's and dvd's ) and its our duty to patronisingly and sheepishly pay them what they unfairly demand of us.

I spent over one million baht in Khao Sok National Park last year. I go there every week and all I'm seeing is more cheap charlie mass tourism operators coming in to party. I've seen nothing done to help make this wonderful place a true natural/national treasure.

If you save your receipt you wouldn't have to keep paying entry fee

You can transfer money instantly with "Western Union".

Depending on how fast you need it!

IMO, Western Union is ridiculously expensive, so wouldn't bother.

Have your GF open a saving account with one of the Thai International Banks, preferably one which has a branch in near your hometown.

When she needs money, wire transfer from your bank to the Thai Bank branch in your area. They will in turn trasfer the money to her bank in Thailand.

The charges are reasonable and it takes about 1 week to complete the transfer.

LOL Misplaced ....

the guy's timelines don't add up ... he wasn't married in Sept last year ... but in May this year had been married over a year ....

But certainly a GF expects to probably get married ... particularly if she is in her hometown/province. A Mia Noi does not have this to look forward to ...so yes money IS an object there ... Since the OP started a thread about Mia Noi he should know the difference between a GF and a Mia Noi ... So the girl in question here is in a No win situation and loses face considerably! Not to mention if the age difference is radical and people know he is married ....

If this guy is indeed in thailand?? and married? ... well she doesn't have ANY social status at all and he's just looking for a REALLY cheap bedpartner ... less than 6k a month all-in ... now THAT is a sad reflection

Please explain to me the difference between a girlfriend and a Mia Noi and if you think 6000bht + apartment & motorcycle is not enough, what is your reccomended amount??

I thought you said it's 5000 bht per month?

You better get your facts straight. May be you gave her 5000 bht and it suppose to be 6000 bht? Could be a reason why she left

Barry - Can't you just politle ask him to come over your house than Bit_h slap him? If the police come just tell him your neighbor was tresspassing . I bet that'll end your problem (or create new ones)

Foreigners trying so hard to fit in with the locals here are, on the whole, viewed by Thais -- not with the respect and admiration that earlier posters are convinced they felt washing over them -- but as a bit pathetic, a bit of a joke. All those middle-aged white guys I saw today on Sukhumvit, bellies bulging in their yellow t-shirts, reminded me of the tourists who wai bar girls in Nana: out of sync and having no clue about it.

It's their country, friends. When we try to act like we are part of it, we mostly make fools of ourselves. If you don't understand that, you really don't understand much about Thais.

Pathetic is the right word, when describing foreigners adopting a cause they hardly understand in all its implications, in order to appear that they are so in tune with the land.

Pathetic because you want to show respect for the great king of siam? I certainly disagree with that notion. Actualy, I think you're showing Thai people that you respect their belief and their king. Respect goes both ways you know.

Oldasiadork - you really need to get out of the sukhumvit environment. There's more to this country than Bargirls.

You're not telling us that this happens only in Thailand are you? That would be just stupid!

Whats with the sudden negative thread(s) about the Thai thing anyway.

Blame Blame Blame

You come across as aloof, superior, serious and also a crashing bore most of the time.

I have heard many folks say the same about you behind your back.

Maybe it's time I stopped posting on here becuase uptight dorks like you are getting right up my nose.

Excuse me, will you please leave me out of this topic. TP, I thought I could confide in U

oh yes! & another thing ive never heard a thai person fart really loudly in public.

theres got to something wrong there!

again, wrong thread.

Reading / speaking Thai may be (or not) be a pre-requisite to criticise "the why Thailand is so backward" , but reading & understanding English is definitely "IS" a requirement in this forum

I somehow doubt if most of our illustrious Thai-visa posters who aren't Thai can speak and understand Thai on this level, although they seem to be indicating that they can!

a word of wisdom.......FINALLY!

I thought we'd finally passed this stage of so-called debate . . . . and were focussing on economic criteria, which was what the topic was all about in the first place.

No one mentioned it before and it is rather relevant to the thread as a whole.

So you're saying that we didn't stay on topic (as usual)? Ofcourse we diddddd

I somehow doubt if most of our illustrious Thai-visa posters who aren't Thai can speak and understand Thai on this level, although they seem to be indicating that they can!

a word of wisdom.......FINALLY!

I spoke with agentleman, That built a home on his inlaws land, wife and him raise some chickens, grow some fruits and vegetables for their own use, and claims to live on about a thousand baht a month.

Ray

1000 Baht / month?

apparently electricity and phone and water is not a necessity for these 2