oldcpu

IF so - then why as part of the Thai tax forms is there one where exempt income is to be listed?

Financial savings/bond interest of some number well over 100,000 but not yet over 200,000 THB. Currently Thai withholding tax deductions are 15%. Again - it all boiled down to the Canadian financial institutions wanting a Thai Tax-ID and my being happy I can prove I did 'due diligence' to follow regulations in Thailand to that regard (and also give them a possible Thai Tax-ID # that they were happy to put in their computer forms).

The main 'driver' for me asking for a Thai Tax-ID was one of the Canadian financial institutions (where I have a SUBSTANTIAL amount of money), when they discovered from Revenue Canada that I was now in Thailand, froze my account. One of the things I had to do to unfreeze the account was provide them a Thai tax-ID. So obtaining an official from the Thai RD state a Thai tax-ID for me could be my pink-ID if and when it was activated (and it was not yet active) was important to me. I could then pass that information to that one Canadian financial institution. Further, I was also opening an account with a second Canadian financial institution, and they also REQUIRED my Thai tax-ID - so again, I passed them my pink-ID # with the caveat that the tax ID was not yet activated. I could also truthfully state in that application that I applied for such ID to be activated. I am happy to be on the LTR visa - but I note that the wording (translations) in the Royal Decree documents on the LTR visa note foreign income for 'Wealthy Pensioners' is "EXEMPT". The wording "NOT ACCESSIBLE INCOME" is NOT used in the Royal Decree on the LTR. Further, the Thai tax returns require accessible income is to be reported, and that income can then subsequently be deducted as being tax exempt (and there is a form for exempt income - which I note at present has no mention of income exempt by the LTR). That is why I believe the questions in regards to "is an income tax return required" was important, and it was a reason for the questions being asked to the Thai RD official (which they could not answer). And if the Thai tax officials can not answer the questions, how confident can we be of our answers?

I've been puzzling over the legal tax wording between 'assessable' income and 'exempt income'. While I am not a US citizen, I do get pension from Canada, Germany, and a European Government organisation. I also have an LTR visa. Both Canada and Germany have DTA with Thailand. My understanding from reading the DTA is that the pension income is still assessible income but it is tax exempt in some cases under the DTA with Thailand. That wording (assessible income or exempt income) makes a difference not interms of tax not being paid but rather could be in terms of "is an income tax return required" ? I have tried (unsuccessfully thus far - and I am in NO hurry) to obtain a Thai tax ID. My wife applied online for a Thai tax ID for me. That goes to the Bangkok Tax office, and they in turn passed it to the Phuket tax office. My wife then received a phone call from a Phuket Revenue Department (RD) branch official asking why did I want a Thai tax ID? The specifically asked: (1) what was my source of income? and (2) was I bringing my income into Thailand? My wife noted I have a Thai Pink-ID, and if I were to be given a Thai tax-ID, would it be the same # as my Pink ID? The Phuket RD official noted it might be, but it would need to be activated first and it was NOT activated. (My wife asked this question as a couple of Canadian financial institutions (who discovered I live in Thailand) have asked for my Thai tax ID # ). My wife advised the RD official that my income was from pensions abroad, and that I was not (at this time) bringing my pension income into Thailand. The Phuket RD official told my wife if I was not bringing my pension income into Thailand I did not need a tax ID as I would have no taxation in Thailand. My wife then noted I receive interest income from Thai banks and from Thai savings bonds (where there is a withholding tax already deducted by Thailand). At what amount of money would I have to submit a Thai tax return on that ? The official advised they would have to check the regulations and they would call my wife back. My wife then noted I am on an LTR visa and asked if my being on that LTR visa (and given BoI notes foreign income brought into Thailand is tax exempt) would I need to file a tax return to report that exempt income when I bring the income into Thailand? The Phuket RD official noted they NEVER HEARD of an LTR visa. They advised my wife that they would have to check the regulations and also call my wife back on that. That, I believe, was over a month ago. I wonder if the Thai RD still has not come to a conclusion here? My wife still has yet to receive a phone call back. Frankly I am in no hurry to get an answer. I simply gave the Canadian financial institutions my Thai Pink-ID # with a note that the Tax ID number is not yet activated. I can not help but think that the information on any changes to tax interpretations are slow in being thought through, and slow in getting to the various Thai regions. Further I can't help but think that the Thai RD is in no hurry to assign foreigners tax IDs.

My experience is normally, if there is a check for an onward ticket, it is done before boarding at one's place of origin, and not upon arrival at the airport in Thailand (although that is no guarantee). I do know of Thai Airways warning on their web site that there may be checks being done in Frankfurt (by Thai Airways), before flying to Thailand from Germany. I don't know about the UK. For 'peace of mind' for an onward ticket, they can be obtained for an inexpensive amount of money. As noted to you already, web sites such as "onward ticket.co" offer throw away tickets. If that approach makes you uneasy, and if you wanted to spend a bit more buy a real ticket (with the intention never to use) you can find some pretty cheap ones. I just looked, and I picked an mostly arbitrary date (20-Nov-2024) (being careful to avoid holidays) ... and here are some example cheap one way flights out of Thailand (which I believe include all taxes): - DMK (Bangkok) to KUL (Kuala Lumpur) : 1,333 THB (Air Asia) - Krabi to KUL (Kuala Lumpur) : 1,259 THB (Batik Air) Of course, since the ticket is intended not to be used, the departure times may be rather ugly, and likely no check-in luggage in those prices. Possibly if one researched more, they could find even cheaper prices.

I don't know if you will be asked to show Health Insurance upon entry, but i would think not. I believe typically for a Type-OA visa, the check to prove one has Health Insurance is done when one applies for the Visa. I am VERY surprised you obtained a Type-OA and was not asked to show your foreign health Insurance. IMHO that was a major omission not to check, by the Embassy office where you applied (I am assuming the reason for the visa is for "retirement' and not for 'marriage to a Thai' ). Note thou, my experience is that while foreign health insurance may be accepted by Thai embassies around the world in getting a Type-OA visa, ... once one is in Thailand, and one is trying to obtain a one-year extension (on permission to stay in Thailand on the Type-OA visa) it is a TOTALLY different story, and typically foreign health insurance is NOT accepted. Instead one has to obtain health insurance from the Thailand branch of a health insurance company to obtain an extension on a Type-OA visa. It was that (being forced to go for health insurance from the Thailand branch of a Health Insurance company (and not able to use our superior and in some cases (such as mine) subsidized foreign Health Insurance)) resulted in many of us (foreigners) deliberately leaving Thailand in a way to invalidate our Type-OA visas, and re-entering Visa exempt, and applying then for a Type-O Visa. From my perspective, the main advantages of a Type-OA visa is to get it once (which if managed carefully can give up to almost 2 years), but never extend it. Rather get the Type-OA visa from outside of Thailand (using one's foreign Health Insurance) and then if one plans to stay in Thailand permanently, once in Thailand obtain a Thai bank account (obviously not applicable to OP as the OP likely already has a Thai bank account). That way one can later easily apply for a Type-O visa and have a bank account. Currently, those entering Thailand visa exempt, who don't have Thai bank accounts, find it very difficult to open a Thai bank account (an agent is almost essential now to open a bank account for those who are in Thailand visa exempt). Without a Thai bank account one can not obtain a Type-O visa while in Thailand. But if one has a long stay visa (such a Type-OA), it is much easier to open a Thai bank account. EDIT: Note the above assumes the visa's are being obtained for reason of "retirement". If one has a Thai spouse (and the visa justification is for reason of 'marriage to a Thai'), then there is no Health Insurance requirement for a Type-OA visa, and that could explain why you were not asked for such. Do you have a Thai spouse?

I have had two Canadian organisations (Bank of Montreal and also Questrade) ask for my Thai tax-ID number. I simply replied that I had not yet been given a Thai tax ID # and passed to them my Thai Pink-ID card number, noting it could eventually be my Thai tax ID # once activated (but that it was not yet activated). I previously was on a Type-OA, and then a Type-O, and finally I am now on an LTR visa. As I posted in another thread, my wife filled in the online form for me to obtain a Thai tax-ID number. That online application goes to Bangkok. My wife learned the Bangkok tax office passed the application to the Phuket tax office. The Phuket tax office called my wife and inquired why was I applying for a Thai tax ID and what was my source of income? My wife noted I am retired, that some years back I initially brought a lot of money into Thailand, and that my current income is my pensions and investment accounts from outside of Thailand. And she noted that I stay in Thailand for greater than 180-days every year. The taxation office told her that as long as I do not bring the money I have outside of Thailand, into Thailand, that I do not need to file a Thai tax return, and hence do not need a Thai tax ID #. My wife then asked how about if I am on an LTR visa and I brought money into Thailand? Would I then have to file a Thai tax return? The Phuket tax official had never heard of an LTR Visa. My wife also asked, given I obtain interest in Thailand from bonds and bank accounts, at what amount would I need to file a Thai tax return for that income (and hence need a Thai tax ID #). The Phuket tax official stated they would look for the answer for those 2 questions and call my wife back. That was weeks ago - and we still have no answer back from the taxation official. I can't help but get the impression that Thai taxation officials are in no hurry to give foreigners Thai tax ID numbers. Perhaps in the future that could change, but at present time, that is the sense/feeling that I get.

I am on an LTR visa. My Thai wife always submits one for me. As to whether it is needed? I don't know. I suspect the policy implementation varies according to the immigration office and maybe even according to an IO one might have cause to deal with.

New Zealand $2,000 NZD? That is close to $1200 USD equivalent. Could that NZ price be a typo? It reads to be totally out of proportion compared to the other prices.

Yes - and if you had read my very 1st post you would have read: " I have not encountered the situation you are in, but I do note in some immigration offices (such as Phuket) when applying for an extension on a Type-OA visa (for reason of marriage to a Thai) require proof one is still married. " I made it clear I was in a different situation, so I fail to see your point in your posts in repeating what I already noted (that my situation was different).

The point is they may want proof marriage is still valid.

Good luck in your efforts. I have not encountered the situation you are in, but I do note in some immigration offices (such as Phuket) when applying for an extension on a Type-OA visa (for reason of marriage to a Thai) require proof one is still married. For example some time back I had to prove my Thai wife and I were still married. In our case, since our marriage (which was originally in Canada) had been subsequently been re-registered in Thailand, we had a "Kor-22" document. The Phuket requirement (at that time - a few years back) was that I had to go to city hall with my Thai wife and have the Kor-22 document renewed - so to prove we were still married. I subsequently switched to a Type-O (for reason of retirement) and then to an LTR visa, so I don't know if this is still the case at Phuket immigration. Granted - this is different than what you are encountering, but it could be for the same sort of reason - they want some organization to give 'official proof' that you are still married. .

As noted already in this thread, in the case of applying for an LTR visa, if on a non-immigrant type-O (and OA) visa, it is possible to apply for an LTR visa when on either of those two visas. I recall one of the 'fields' I had to fill in on the application form was what Visa was I current on ? (if any). In my case, speculating it would take me a long time to get the LTR visa approved, I went and applied for a 1-year extension on my Type-O visa (for reason of retirement), and then within a week of obtaining that extension, I then started the application process for my Thai LTR visa. In the case of the DTV visa, ... I don't know if that is possible. Its a good question ! .

Phuket asked for such (hand drawn map, and phone number to arrange visit to my condo) from me once when I was going for an extension on a Type-OA for reason of retirement. Other years they (Phuket immigration) did not ask me for such. Frankly, I was very surprised they asked for such as I thought it was only required for extensions for reason of marriage. Then late, when I changed the reason for my 1-year extension (under the Type-OA) from 'retirement' to 'marriage', they asked me to add them as a "Line" contact (on the "Line social media app"), and instead of doing a home visit, they asked me to phone them a couple of days later on "Line" (initiating a video chat) and they had me walk through my condo, showing them the interior, the number on my door, and at the street sign at the entrance to the condo.

My hope is no tax return will be needed. Thus far, after the initial phone call from the Revenue Department, questioning my wife as to why I applied for a Tax ID (where RD initially stated a tax return not needed if I did not bring foreign income into Thailand - but they did not know my particulars with me being on an LTR visa), they have not phoned my wife back. After their initial statement (no tax return needed if money is not brought into Thailand), recall my wife asked them a couple of further questions on the phone: (1) do I need to file a tax return in Thailand if on an LTR visa when bringing foreign income into Thailand while I also have no Thai income, and (2) at what point would I need to file a Thai tax return if my interest income (from Thai bonds/banks) reached a certain point. My wife also asked for a written statement if no tax return required. The RD person stated they would check and call my wife back. Thus far, the RD have not called my wife back - and given we are trying to be tactful about this, my wife has not (yet) called the RD back again.

Unlikely IMHO - or if there are some its a VERY SMALL number. Most of us are hoping it does get easier to stay in Thailand for those who don't meet the marriage or retirement or elite visa status. That IMHO is one of the good things about Thailand, in that there are many different types of Visas, where some Visas are more suitable than other visas for the different personal and financial status of various individuals who wish to spend time (and money) in Thailand. It makes little sence IMHO to rain on someone else's parade. So while I have an LTR visa, I am happy to see these new Visa implementations make it easier for many to come to Thailand. .

As noted in this thread (where IMHO you are obtaining good advice) one can 'rent' a ticket in the sites mentioned in this thread. If that causes one concern, then there are some amazing cheap prices if one wants to buy a 'real' oneway ticket. I just looked at Kayak for flights and some example cheap one way flights are: Krabi to KL : 1273 THB (Air Asia) 14:25 to 16:55 (~$35 US$) Bangkok to KL : 1318 THB (Air Asia) (~$36.25 US$) Bangkok to Phnom Penh : 1434 THB (Air Asia) (~ $39.50 US$) One does have to try different dates to get the cheapest flight. Given one does not plan to use the flight, it doesn't really matter what city one is flying out of in Thailand (as long as the ticket is to depart from a Thailand international airport) and it doesn't really matter what city airport outside of Thailand one is flying into (as long as the ticket price is 'dirt cheap').

Thai Airways from Frankfurt (when flying to Suvarnabhumi) noted the same in a 'popup' on their website (a few times when I checked in online to fly that route from Frankfurt to Bangkok). Still - despite that warning when doing the online checkin, given how busy they can be at the airport at the airline boarding counter, that doesn't guarantee they will take the time to call one up to the counter to check one has such a return/onward ticket. I've been called up a couple of times (by Thai airways) in Frankfurt to the boarding counter when flying to Thailand. On one occasion I had a type-OA visa, and after seeing the visa in my passport, they thanked me and asked I simply wait for boarding. On another occasion (when my Type-OA was invalid as I previously deliberately departed Thailand with no re-entry ticket (so to invalidate my Type-OA as I was planning to enter Thailand visa exempt and obtain a Type-O once in Thailand)), the airline staff spent a long time looking at my (invalid) Type-OA, .... and then let me return to wait for boarding. They did not ask for an onward ticket (although I had such ready if asked) I think they could not tell that the Type-OA was no longer valid ?? ... Still I do agree its best if possible to have a contingency plan ready in case one is required to produce such a return/onward ticket at the last minute. I don't think the current 60day visa exemptions being limited or unlimited, will affect any of the current policies for possible onward or return airline ticket checks.

One thing I like about Thailand is it has multiple different types of visas, that can suit the financial and personal situation for people from different backgrounds, where no one visa is good for everyone , .... but some visas are well suited to some in a certain financial or personal situation. I'm an old fogy in his 70s (who is happy with his LTR visa), but when I look at this DTV, it seems its timing is very good and well suited to the young who have some money, who are trying to escape from regional conflicts for the next five years. The young from Myanmar, Ukraine and Russia, who may be trying to avoid to fight in wars that they don't believe in, comes to my mind. I suspect the most difficult part for such young might be the "proof of purpose" of visit, but perhaps taking 5-years of Mua Thai lessons (or cooking or other sports training) is preferable to fighting in a war. They may need to worry a bit about the tax situation (if staying 180-days or greater) but that is true for almost all Visas to Thailand that let one stay 180-days or greater. Good on 'Thailand', for offering this, is my view on this. My view probably is controversial to many who don't want to see 'combat age youth' showing up in Thailand , but I hold no ill will to those trying to avoid regional conflicts. These are interesting times.

An educational thread - illustrating how different various Immigration offices can be. When I used to be on a Type-O/OA visas, I often would go to Phuket immigration for my 90-day report (as the on-line reporting rarely worked for me). It is less than a 15-minute car drive from where I live. I think the most I ever had to wait at the immigration for a 90-day report was close to 45-minutes (it was a zoo that day at the office, and it was very over-crowded), and most times for a 90-day report I was in/out in less than 15-minutes, ... sometimes less than 5 minutes when using the Phuket central immigration office automobile drive through. No appointments needed. Reading of over 2 hours being required in one case at CW, and 45-minutes being a relatively quick time, was, for me as noted, educational. It definitely "drives home" how different various Immigration offices can be in terms of what one does. I assume the conclusion for CW is to always try and make an appointment?

Good point. I was thinking of LTR-WP. .... Still, I ask myself, how about those on an LTR WFTP category with families? Should they be forced to drag their families out of the country every year? or leave their family every year for their own visa run - when they could instead obtain a Visa where such was not needed (assuming they have the finances)? My own view is we are fortunate that Thailand has many different visa categories, and dependent on each of our circumstances (age, working? retired? families? finances), different visas are suitable for each of us.

Let me give you one reason: Some of us in our 70s and 80s do not want to have to travel to leave the country every year.

I agree with all that you state EXCEPT for the "asking for trouble" wording. I am going about this very indirectly and tactfully. Very tactfully. Would you prefer to find out (say in year 2027)that you have to pay tax on year 2024 and 2025 and 2026 assessable foreign income, that you should have been tax exempt, but you now have to pay tax on it, only because you failed to file a tax return? As you infer, TIT (this is Thailand). I can't predict the future despite many years living here. What I can predict is that somethings are not predictable. As for doing nothing and having faith, ... that's your choice. I respect that. It is thou what I call the 'head in the sand approach' and I will repeat it may very well be the best approach. And it may not. But its not my approach.

I agree with that - except 5 years may be too late, ... and further the only addition I might have is a caution in the Royal Decree No.743 on the LTR visa, in Section-7 that states (unofficial English translation): "Section 7 - In the case that a foreigner has applied tax reduction or exemption under this Royal Decree, and does not comply with the rules prescribed in Section 3, Section 4, Section 5 and Section 6, in any tax year, benefits will be suspended in that tax year." That is rather punitive. Note that 'section-6' (which is referred to in section-7 above) then states (again unofficial English translation): "Section 6 - A foreigner who is entitled to the benefits under Section 3, Section 4, and Section 5 must meet qualifications and comply with rules, procedures, and conditions as prescribed by the Director-General of the Revenue Department." Again, Section-3 and 4 refers to the "LTR High-Skilled Professional" and section-5 refers to "Wealthy Global Citzen, Wealthy Pensioner, and Work From Thailand Professional". So very clearly Section-3 and Section-4 and Section-5 LTR-visa holders can run into problems if they do not comply with rules, procedures, and conditions as prescribed by the Director-General of the Revenue Department. I ask again, what are those rules, procedures, and conditions? And again, Thailand Revenue Department has tuned its tax intepretation defining anyone in Thailand for 180 days and greater is considered a tax resident, which means they need to file a tax return on assesable income. Thailand Revenue Department did NOT state LTR visa holders are exempt from following their rules. There is nothing that states clearly that Section-5 (from Royal Decree) visa holders do not have to follow Thai Revenue Department rules, procedures nor conditions. Just the opposite is stated. So if a Section-5 LTR Visa holder (ie LTR-WP, LTR-GC, or LTR-HSP) should not follow Thai Revenue Department rules, procedures nor conditions their tax benefits will be suspended in that tax year. .... ie one could interpret that as saying they will then have to pay tax on their foreign income if they don't follow some rule (where I fear such could be something as basic as not filing an income tax return). This is the thrust of my trying to figure this out and why I think it useful to try have this made very very clear. And that is why I am adopting the indirect approach I noted ... Yes, I could turn a blind eye, stick my head in the sand, and indeed, it may work out fine just like I think we all hope it works out fine (as that was what we were lead to believe by BoI when we applied for the LTR Visa). ie No tax return !! No tax on foreign sourced income. I do hope that. I want to blindly hope that. But I don't like that "hope only" approach. So I am trying to very tactfully prod the Thai Revenue department, by applying for a Tax ID, and obtain something definitive from them. I don't criticize those who put their faith 100% that there will be no tax return requirements for Section-5 LTR visa holders, as that is ALSO what I want. I just want to ensure we don't get impacted by Section-7's punitive clause because we had too much faith and believed in good faith we did not have to file a tax return. I will try to explore this as tactful as possible - and as noted - I may not succeed to get any clarity.

That definitely is a good approach. Another thought I had on the approach my Thai wife and I are adopting, is by 'shaking the tree' very very VERY tactfully in an indirect way now, that we may contribute to the RD thinking in terms of the 2024 IT, such that it will have the correct entries for the LTR visa ... or result in further Revenue Department clarifications.