oldcpu

According to the Thai Revenue Department order no. P.162/2023 this only applies to income earned from 1-Jan-2024 onward. Money earned prior can be brought into the country after 1-Jan-2024 with no tax by Thailand. I suspect one will though need to keep good financial records to credibly show the money (brought into Thailand after 1-Jan-2024) was earned prior to 1-Jan-2024. Of course this could all change, but that is my understanding from the Thai Revenue Department order no. P.162/2023.

Anyway, if, like me, you'll never have any income -- remitted or worldwide -- that would be subject to Thai taxes - A minor point (please correct me if I am wrong), this was clarified to be as of 1-Jan-2024, and that any income earned prior to that date treated separately. Hence (independent of any LTR tax exemption) for those without LTR visa tax exemption, who have large savings OUTSIDE of Thailand prior to 1-Jan-2024, for the time being it may be simply a basic book keeping and financial record keeping effort, to show that any funds we bring into Thailand after 1-Jan-2024 were credibly (and proven to be by our financial records) earned outside of Thailand before 1-Jan-2024. Hence such money brought into Thailand is not taxable per the the Thai Revenue Department order no. P.162/2023. Of course this could all change in the future, but that is my understanding of the current active status.

IMHO it is similar with regard to Pattaya .... where many think it is only about Walking street (and a couple of other smaller areas) which are in essence RLD spots ... Where there is a lot more to Pattaya and Jomtien than such spots. I have a number of friends who live in Jomtien - and its very good ... for most of the same reasons as Phuket ... Good shopping, not too far from an International Airport (in this case @ Bangkok), lots of banking facilities ... many international schools .... and more isolated spots for those looking for such away from the main madness. Obviously I prefer the relatively 'out of the way' spot I found in Phuket, but I do note Pattaya/Jomtien have some pretty good spots - with many condos with fabulous views ... close to a beach where one can go to exercise. As noted, Pattaya is the location of choice of a number of my friends who never visit the night life areas.

Re: the 60 days - its also easier said than done to get a Thai tax ID#. As I have posted before, my Thai wife tried to get such earlier for me this year, and did not succeed. My case is I have an LTR visa, I have only brought money into Thailand BEFORE 1-Jan-2024 (and not since), and my income source is outside of Thailand. A local Revenue Department official was quite clear that if I did not bring income into Thailand (from outside of the country) I did not have to file a tax return at present time, so he would NOT activate a Thai tax ID# for me. My wife noted I am on an LTR visa and she suggested I may wish to bring foreign income (pensions) into the country in the future. So would I thus need a Thai tax ID? The Thai official noted he saw no need for me to have a Thai tax ID (since I had not brought money into Thailand) and further he noted that he never heard of an LTR visa, and that he would call back - which he never did (this was months ago). From this I deduce there appears to be some 'fuzziness' around the enforcement of the '60-day' requirements, and even the local tax offices don't know yet all the details. I suspect it may be even sometime after November this year - before there is a more clear guidance on this tax return submission (and hence Thai tax ID) situation.

With respect ...and I do mean that ... with respect ... you are expecting too much from BoI, ... and given that, you are correct. LTR visa likely is NOT the Visa for you, as I suspect you don't see the need for the patience to follow up (or restructure finances to meet the form BoI want). Which is ok. Thailand has many Visa options. There is no need to go for an LTR visa. Reference the points I quoted above on tax notices ... I ended up giving 3 years of tax records, (an extra year at BoI request) when nominally only 2 required. But so what? I could upload such from the comfort of my condo balcony with a great view of the sea, sipping a drink, and watching the sunset. That is no hardship for me. As for a written document from your broker - I am surprised BoI even entertain such. Nominally they prefer NOT to handle paper work about regular money from a brokerage (although I think they will reluctantly do such). They MUCH prefer for pensions to be regular pensions from a government. One needs to make SPECIAL EFFORT to try to expect BoI to handle brokerage pension? withdrawal? amounts? for the WP-wealthy pensioner. The BoI point of view is likely your case an exception and they are very leery of giving an LTR in such a case. Reference summing the pension amounts? I obtain old age security from Canada (paperwork in English). A pension from Germany (paper work in German language). A pension from an EU organisation (paperwork in English). The sum of just my Candian Old Age Security and EU pension exceeded the $40K US equivalent per year. I did not provide the German pension paperwork. BoI asked for the German pension paper work. I replied by paper (politely) AND also phoned and politely explained that both my Canadian OAS and European organisation pension exceeded the $40K US$ , and hence I did not want to bother translating the German pension paperwork into English language, since I already exceeded that $40k amount. They did NOT need to consider my German pension. Then the BoI asked for proof of my Canadian Pension (which I do not get yet, but I am entitled to as I am over age 65). I figure this was a quality control check to confirm I was not some sort of scam. I pointed out to BoI (by both upload PDF and by a very polite phone call) that I had deferred my Canadian pension to age-70, and so I was not in receipt of such yet, so I could not give them such proof. But that once again both my Canadian OAS and European organisation pension exceeded the $40K US$ requirement. They accepted that. Note that when you deal with BoI, you are not dealing with the BoI decision maker. You are dealing with a 'screener' who is at a lower level and presents your material to upper management, who do the approval. So dependent on the interaction between the screener and the upper level management, you could have extra requirements thrown your way by the screener (who was pressured by their manager). Honestly, even IF you point out precise para number of a large insurance document, I would be VERY surprised, if BoI accept that. Again, others have addressed this by (1) an appropriately written letter from the health insurance company or (2) showing $100K in cash in any bank account anywhere in the world (being in the account for >2 years). This is after all, a "WEALTHY pensioner" visa, .... For BoI,the wealth has to match their requirements, and if the funds of VERY wealthy people don't match the form of the BoI requirements, BoI expect one to restructure one's finances to meet BoI's requirements. Thats just the way it is IMHO. I suspect MANY who are wealthy, have their finances structured in a manner not suitable to BoI, ... and those individuals if they won't restructure some funds to precisely meet BoI requirements , likely are best to apply for a different visa. I am thinking you may be in that latter category. Best wishes to you in the Visa approach (and/or retirement location) you chose instead.

I tend to agree. Others who posted about such a letter specifically noted the letter stated over $50k US dollar equivalent coverage.

As I noted - you can call BoI on the phone, and (if you have an English language speaker or a Thai language speaker with you) then you can obtain clarification. The BoI screeners all speak Thai and English. My experience, having lived in Canada and Germany, is that German authorities are pretty efficient. Canadian, on the other hand, are NOT as efficient. So I would be very surprised to see BoI matching Germany efficiency. This is a very long thread ... so likely you did not see my post where I posted on the effort I went through to get my LTR visa (but I succeeded in the end). I posted about it here (below). Good luck. Good luck

I believe a few (who have posted on this Asean Now forum) have explained their experiences in obtaining BoI approval of their foreign (non-Thai branch) insurance company health insurance. My understanding from their posts is that they all noted they obtained a letter from their foreign health insurance company, that stated certain things in the letter. I believe it would be helpful if a sanitized copy of the letter of these successful LTR applicant individuals (with personal info from the letters removed) were posted on AseanNow, such that we could see the exact content that was acceptable to BoI. In my case, not knowing a letter approach would work, and knowing the documentation of my superb European coverage was massive - I did not try to ask BoI to wade through the MANY DOZENS of pages explaining my health insurance coverage. It was simply too much documentation provided by the insurance company and frankly, I can not see ANYONE wanting to wade through such Insurance company documentation. I don't blame BoI for one second for NOT wanting to wade through a foreign language document. The BoI approach of wanting a letter from the Health Insurance company, stating exactly what BoI want, makes sense. The problem is (from my view) is it is not clear exactly what should be in the letter, which is why it would be helpful to read of some example Health Insurance company letters that were acceptable to BoI. In my case, I did not know of such a letter approach, so I went the $100K US$ equivalent in a bank route for self health insurance. As for asking your insurance company for another letter. Why not? The worst that will happen is that they will say no. What are you afraid of there? Do you think the insurance company will deny your health insurance because you ask for a different letter? You are not making up the requirements. BoI is asking for such and you can explain to the insurance company this request does not originate from you. One suggestion I have, is when you communicate via writing to BoI (as a cover page to a document you submit), DO NOT PUT IT ALL IN ONE LARGE PARA (like you did in the quoted post). Its unpleasant to have to wade through one long paragraph - especially in a foreign language. Instead, split up the content to multiple relevant subparagraphs which is MUCH easier to read and review. Note - if you are unsure of the status of your BoI application, and if it has been a long time since you have heard from them, you can always phone BoI and very politely ask for a status and very politely ask if there is any other documentation you can provide. As noted - it took me about 5 months, ... but I was VERY polite with BoI through the entire process. Good luck in your efforts.

I spent about 6 weeks in Hua Hin (on 3 different visits combined) looking around. In the end I decided against and went for Phuket. Why? Phuket has more quality hospitals (albeit Hua Hin has some quality hospitals too ..., just a lessor number) Too many local tourists from Bangkok flood Hua Hin on holidays - with massive numbers at times approaching Phuket ill informed tourist area madness The main highway that runs through Hua Hin is horrific and makes the entire area unsuitable for me Less sea tours / expeditions from Hua Hin than Phuket Hua Hin has less international schools compared to Phuket Hua Hin is Much MUCH MUCH further from an International Airport such as Phuket has In Hua Hin, after viewing over 3 dozen different condos on the massive long beach , I could not find one in decent shape, for a decent price, that I liked ... [ also one only gets a sunrise view over the water - and not a sunset view]. Not as wide a restaurant selection as Phuket (although Hua Hin does have many) Don't get me wrong. I do like Hua Hin. I think it a great place. I believe it will be ideal for some. I have friends who live in that area - so it would be nice to be living in that area close to friends. Overall Hua Hin is SIGNIFICANTLY less expensive than Phuket also. The massively less expensive price can be important to many. I urge many to look at Hua Hin. But Phuket edged out Hua Hin for me.

A dump and that was before the hordes descended from the Soviet steppes and China. Traffic awful, everywhere trying to rip you off. Much nicer and more authentic places in Thailand. IMHO. I'm sort of glad you think that (and others too) as it should mean you will find other places, and if enough people have your view, the increasing trend of Phuket's population will hopefully stabilize with time. As to research and why - ANYONE who objectively did research would see the obvious - but some only want the fabulous sand and empty beaches of 1/2 century ago - something that has not been in Phuket for decades. I debated about posting the below, as I prefer not to have more flooding the island. I would be happy for this post to be deleted and during the brief time I have - I may do myself? What Phuket offers those expats who stay? I thought it obvious, but I guess not so let me note some of the points: International airport relatively close to the entire island MANY (relatively) quality hospitals near by most locations in Phuket Immigration office relatively close to most locations in Phuket Banking in many spots in Phuket Many quality stores / shopping malls English language cinema for those who want such Massive selection of good restaurants of many cuisines (especially relevant to expats in the know) A number of international schools Condos/villas with fabulous views Quiet scenic locations away from the crazy western tourist beaches (for those who take the time and effort to find such ) Many tours (diving and boating expeditions to near by islands ) originate from Phuket Easy to get by with English language For those (not me) tourists/expats who want night life? Phuket's scene is 3rd to only Bangkok and Pattaya Downsides? Its not the isolated serene beach that many dream of Its expensive relative to most of the rest of Thailand (but still cheaper than most of the western world) Main tourist beaches that the ill informed flock to are crazy and IMHO ugly due to the masses Traffic in main arteries is ugly in high season, and also ugly during rush hour in low season. My experience is many are ILL INFORMED and think before coming to Phuket it will be an isolated serene beach with all the modern conveniences. They are invariably disappointed. My hope ? That everyone seizes on the negatives, and go elsewhere than going to Phuket. I am not keen on seeing the traffic get any worse. I am not too worried about the quiet areas being discovered and properly assessed as most don't take the time and effort to properly do such. For me? That is good. Thailand has MANY great areas - so I urge others to find places OTHER than Phuket. Many ( not all thou) of the good points I mention can be found for a cheaper price in any single given other (than Phuket) location in Thailand. So go there instead !

I concede it can seem like you are going around in circles ... but I think if you stick with it you will succeed. My experience in different countries around the world when dealing with bureaucracy is that there can be 'hidden reasons for the delays'. If I had to guess I would say the individual who is handling/screening your case at BoI ran into issues in the past with another applicant, that has irritated that BoI individual screener's boss ... where the boss is pushing his employee to get more info than normal ... and you being the 'low man on the totem pole' here means it all ends on your lap. I went the $100K US equivalent in the Bank route for self health insurance instead of using my European Cigna (as their paperwork about coverage are simply too massive for BoI to find the very precise information they want to see) and this took me some time to prove (as some of my accounts were not accepted as it was possible to trade equities with them). What some have done is asked their Health Insurance company to write a letter saying one has a health insurance contract with $50K US coverage that expires on such and such a date (or maybe it is open ended with no expiry date). I did not go that route so I do not know the exact wording in the letter (from insurance company) that was acceptable to BoI. But when I go for my 5-year re-proof, I think I will try the 'letter' from the Insurance company approach. I took me ~5 months to have my LTR approved, but I succeeded in the end. Perhaps part of that long duration was my fault, as I only fed BoI the bare minimum for financial proof (as I didn't want to share the entire scope of my finances with them) and maybe that complicated things. Good luck !

Interesting link. Under the DTA section I immediately spotted this: That could be advantageous in some cases.

On the topic of Phuket - as has been pointed out to which I fully agree ... Phuket is SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive than most all other places in Thailand. For example consider Chiang Mai : Cost of Living in Phuket is 30.1% higher than in Chiang Mai (without rent) Cost of Living Including Rent in Phuket is 48.8% higher than in Chiang Mai Rent Prices in Phuket are 126.7% higher than in Chiang Mai Restaurant Prices in Phuket are 48.6% higher than in Chiang Mai Groceries Prices in Phuket are 19.5% higher than in Chiang Mai Local Purchasing Power in Phuket is 29.9% lower than in Chiang Mai From that I think one can see the places like Chiang Mai are much cheaper than most places in western Europe. Of course Chiang Mai also has its downsides. Air quality, for example, can be unhealthy at certain times of the year - FAR FAR worse than that of Phuket. I prefer Phuket, but I do know of some who have left Phuket for other less expensive places in Thailand. I think everyone needs to make their own decision as to what they wish and what is important to themselves. My having served on ship for years ... and having lived in sea side cities for years - I have a strong desire to be close to the sea. Most people don't have that as a requirement for a place where they wish to live.

Another image from my Phuket condo balcony, image taken just over an hour ago ... giving an idea as to how great it is to sit on the balcony and enjoy the ambience at night. I looked at condo prices in Spain, Portugal, Malta and elsewhere in western Europe, and I would be hard pressed to find anything as nice as I have now in Phuket, for the price I paid. ... As I noted earlier, I still "pinch" myself all the time that I am lucky to be living here. .... And as a retiree, I note Thailand has some VERY good private hospitals, which my European health insurance mostly fully covers.

For certain, the price of alcohol in most ( all ? ) European countries is massively cheaper in Europe than such in Thailand.

My experience is Spain in places can be more expensive than Thailand in places, and visa versa. For example surfing ( https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/ ) on a price comparison site on the internet, I note: In General: Cost of Living Comparison Between Spain and Thailand Cost of Living in Thailand is 22.9% lower than in Spain (without rent) Cost of Living Including Rent in Thailand is 29.4% lower than in Spain Rent Prices in Thailand are 45.9% lower than in Spain Restaurant Prices in Thailand are 53.3% lower than in Spain Groceries Prices in Thailand are 5.5% lower than in Spain Local Purchasing Power in Thailand is 55.2% lower than in Spain I think it clear - grocery prices are similar, and most else is MORE expensive in Spain. Lets look at some Spanish Islands (tourist areas) to compare with Phuket, a Thailand tourist area.. = = = = = = Consider the Canary Islands: Cost of Living Comparison Between Canary Islands and Phuket Cost of Living in Phuket is 1.2% lower than in Canary Islands (without rent) Cost of Living Including Rent in Phuket is 2.5% lower than in Canary Islands Rent Prices in Phuket are 5.5% lower than in Canary Islands Restaurant Prices in Phuket are 34.8% lower than in Canary Islands Groceries Prices in Phuket are 12.5% higher than in Canary Islands Local Purchasing Power in Phuket is 59.7% lower than in Canary Islands = = = = Consider Palma de Mallorca Cost of Living Comparison Between Palma de Mallorca and Phuket Cost of Living in Phuket is 23.2% lower than in Palma de Mallorca (without rent) Cost of Living Including Rent in Phuket is 22.8% lower than in Palma de Mallorca Rent Prices in Phuket are 21.7% lower than in Palma de Mallorca Restaurant Prices in Phuket are 48.0% lower than in Palma de Mallorca Groceries Prices in Phuket are 0.8% higher than in Palma de Mallorca Local Purchasing Power in Phuket is 44.5% lower than in Palma de Mallorca Yes - those are tourist spots in Spain. But so is Phuket a tourist spot. One REALLY needs to be more specific if one wishes to compare prices between the two countires, but statistics "in general" say otherwise (than claims that Spain is cheaper, which it is not). Overall the statistics say that Thailand is cheaper than Spain. Of course when deciding where to live there is a LOT more to this than just costs - but its important to set the record straight here. and selected spots in each country can be VERY inexpensive relative to other spots in the other country.

These are Thailand specific reasons ... not Phuket specific. Every part of the world has its upsides and its downsides. Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia in Asia...but even Malta in Europe or other islands of Spain also have their downsides. .... They all have their downsides. In fact Malta was one of the places I went to and spent a couple of weeks looking around (in addition to spending a LOT of research) when trying to decide where to retire. I did like Malta a lot. But despite typing that, I choose Phuket over Malta (as I like Phuket more), and I don't regret it for one second. I type that noting my criteria for living in Phuket may be very very different from those of others. I also note aspects that seem to irritate you - don't annoy me. I don't know what TM forms you refer to. I rarely have long lines at the Thai international airports (being 70, having a Thai wife, and an LTR visa), I've seen snakes in Vietnam, Malaysia and Indonesia (more in fact). Cost of living (compared to Thailand) is not so cheap in Malta (for example). Cost of Living in Thailand is 30.0% lower than in Malta (without rent) Cost of Living Including Rent in Thailand is 35.5% lower than in Malta Rent Prices in Thailand are 49.6% lower than in Malta Restaurant Prices in Thailand are 61.9% lower than in Malta Groceries Prices in Thailand are 13.8% lower than in Malta Local Purchasing Power in Thailand is 42.3% lower than in Malta We are fortunate to have many opportunities in Thailand , and also elsewhere in the world. If you find so much you dislike about Thailand, why do you waste your time posting on AseanNow in the Thailand (and Phuket in particular) area? Are you second guessing your own view?

My experience is also if one makes a typographic error in the branch #/account#, there is a reasonable chance there is no such account. And if there is no such branch or account, the transaction will be reversed (as part of the failure), one will end up with their money again in their account (albeit there will be a small fee for transferring the money back). Still I agree that if you are uncertain, contact your bank and advise them of your error.

Further I find the section on 'dividends' in the Canada/Thailand DTA a bit murky. I extracted some of the Canadian/Thai DTA article 10 on dividends below. Again, where there are brackets and italics, that is where I entered "Thailand" and "Canada". If "Thailand" and "Canada" are seen below without brackets and italics, then that is part of the DTA 'as is'. With myself a tax resident of Thailand, my interpretation is Thailand may tax dividends I obtain from a Canadian company. But Canada may also tax me up to 15% of the Canadian dividends amount. Again, my experience is a pay more than 15% tax to Canada on the dividends I earn in Canada, ... but I need to double check that. Once again, this (from my view) is very murky (to say the least).

The use of the wording "may be taxed" appears in many places in the Canada-Thailand DTA, so its interpretation is important. I note in regards to interest from the Canada/Thailand DTA (where I substituted "in brackets and in italics" both the words "Canada" and "Thailand". Where there are no brackets/italics (and "Canada" and "Thailand" appear) then that is exact wording (with those countries mentioned) in that DTA: Honestly, I would be surprised if I can "get away" with only paying 15% tax of the gross amount of the interest from investments in Canada. My global income (from outside of Canada and outside of Thailand), that I am required to report to Canada as part of my Canadian tax returns (and also report my global income on my wife's Canadian tax return), is sufficiently high such that my experience is that I pay more than 15% to Canada on Canadian interest from investments (but I will need to check that to be certain). I also note that for the interest on Thai government savings bond (that I purchased to help qualify me for a Thai LTR visa) that my Thailand withholding tax is 15% ... which is greater than 10% but less than 25% noted in the DTA. For me ? This is all as clear as mud at present.

I don't think there ever was much of an exodus - if any. For every expat that left, I suspect one or more quality expats took their place.

And as I posted a few times already - a Thai tax ID is NOT so easy to get. My wife tried (for me) and failed. Some months back she applied on line for the Tax ID. That goes to a Bangkok office, and they forwarded my application to Phuket. She received a phone call from an official working in the Phuket RD who asked for (1) confirmation I resided > 180 days in Phuket per calendar year, and (2) where was my income source, and (3) was I bringing this income into Thailand. My wife replied (1) yes I resided > 180 days in Thailand per calendar year, and (2) my income source was foreign pensions from OUTSIDE of Thailand, and (3) I was not bringing money into Thailand at present, as I previously brought a lot in long before 1-Jan-2024. The official told her I did not need a tax ID as long as I was not bringing money into Thailand. Now my view is that does not mean the situation won't change in the future, but that was what she was told by a Thai RD official. The story actually doesn't 100% end there. My wife asked some questions of the Phuket RD official, one question being she noted my Thai pink ID number was rejected as a tax-ID by the online tax forms. Why was that? The Phuket RD official noted the Thai pink ID could only be used as a tax-ID in an on-line form AFTER it was activated. Mine was not activated. (and again he noted he saw no reason to activate mine). Another question my wife asked was, given I am on an LTR visa, if I were to have brought for a tax year (ie tax reporting year) income into Thailand, would I on an LTR visa have to pay Thai tax on such income (if not covered by a DTA?). The Phuket RD official noted they never heard of an LTR visa, and they would have to check on this and phone back. .... That was many months ago. They never phoned back. Clearly the Phuket RD are in no hurry to assign Thai tax IDs to foreigners (at least not in my case).

As for sunset views - here are a couple of views I took from my condo balcony. One is sunset. The other is moon set. Pretty amazing I think. (My camera is a 'cheap' Nikon CoolPix P900 bridge camera).

Agree there is something for everyone in Phuket - although one does need to take the time and effort to look. Compared to most other (non-Bangkok) places, Phuket is expensive. And for those on tighter budgets, that is IMHO a good reason not for staying in Phuket. Thailand has much more inexpensive places to live. As for the East Coast of Phuket - yes there are great places on the East Coast. I drove up and down it a lot , exploring it. One gets the morning sun there, and over 30 years ago, when working for six months (supporting a rocket launch campaign), I lived in Cape Canaveral, Florida (USA) in a East Coast beach front condo, with direct beach access. It was great, and possibly part of the motivation for me purchasing a beach front condo in Phuket. BUT I don't live in such areas in Phuket. I previously, in this thread, posted on the area where I live. For one who know Phuket (and many expats who live here for over a decade don't as they typically do not explore the entire island) ... but for those who do know Phuket, they will note from that post of mine where I noted the location where I live, that I don't get a sunrise view. I have a sunset view in Phuket, with the sun setting over Chalong and Rawai, and at times setting behind the Big Buddha. I have some fabulous images from my Balcony. As for 'great beaches' ... do you mean ONLY the quality of the sand. Because despite the fabulous quality of the sand of Kata, Karon, Patong (on the west coast) I don't consider those over crowded beaches great beaches. Just the contrary. I see them as horrible. Maybe during COVID times (when they were empty) they were great for solitude, but definitely NOT before COVID and definitely NOT after COVID - unless of course, one loves the shoulder to shoulder mingling with the crowds on those beaches as being enjoyable. In that case - yes, they are great beaches. When I go for a walk in the morning on the beach (and adjacent beach) where I live in Phuket (typically from 06:30am to 07:30am), I might see two dozen people in the space of an hour - and they are either walking on the beach too, or are enjoying a morning dip in the water. Thailand has many amazing places. I think thou many on this thread who claim they visited Phuket for a few days and decided Phuket was not for them, ... in fact they saw only 5% of Phuket (probably they saw the horrendous traffic on the North-South roads and they experienced the madness of Patong Beach crowds and hawkish trinket sellers on that beach). They never took the time to rent a car and drive to explore every nook and cranny in Phuket - because that exploration can NOT be done in a few days. From my selfish perspective. Good. Hopefully they find a great place outside of Phuket (and they should find a great place, as there are many such great places in Thailand outside of Phuket ) ... and its a win-win situation, as by their not moving to Phuket, its one less person who may stumble on the area where I live and start making it more crowded. Already real estate prices are climbing to be more and more expensive in Phuket (for both buying and renting). I feel fortunate I bought in 2016 before the current pricing madness took place. Its also becoming very difficult for people to find long term places (at a non crazy price) to live in the area I live - and I suspect that true for most Phuket coastal areas (especially those with sunset views like mine, or better). As an example of the view from my condo balcony - here is an image from last night (dusk) and this morning (at breakfast). As noted - I still 'pinch' myself in the morning.

Phuket is a big province. There are great areas in Phuket that are not over run with tourists that many simply aren't aware of. I lived in Phuket from 1997 to 1999, and returned, purchasing a luxury condo unit in 2016 with direct beach access and a fabulous unobstructed (and close) sea view. 15 minutes drive from Phuket town. My condo is over an hour drive from Kata/Karon/Patong/Kamala, but I never go there, unless I have friends from overseas visiting Phuket, and in that case, and ONLY in that case, I make an exception (to go to that part of the over run west coast beaches) just to see friends who are visitors (who elected to stay there in those areas). Let the masses of tourists hang out there - I much prefer the more quiet spot in Phuket where I live. Frankly - the average tourist AND the average expat never explore Phuket enough to find the quiet spots. Instead they delve into the over run tourist areas, they generalize, they note how over run such is, and then blindly believe all of Phuket is like that and leave Phuket. Please excuse my being selfish, but I am happy Phuket is not explored more by those who criticize. It keeps some less known areas in Phuket quiet, and that's good. It keeps the quiet areas for those of us who took the time and made the effort to explore it more, and kept such areas for those of us who prefer the more quiet spots. And those who criticize typically find good areas elsewhere in Thailand that they like - so it becomes a win-win. We each find what we like. I do grant, ... Phuket traffic, if driving north south is horrible. I also note one can also say that about some other areas of Thailand - so in that ugly aspect Phuket is not unique. I feel fortunate in my day-to-day life (because of the location I choose) I rarely have to put up with the worst of the Phuket traffic. Each to their own. Enjoy the part of Thailand where you settle. I sincerely hope you do enjoy where you stay , ... and I will continue to enjoy where I stay (I practically pinch myself every morning for my good fortune), as I sip my coffee and have breakfast on a quiet condo balcony, over looking the sea. And I enjoy the quiet sunsets many nights, and enjoy watch many a red dusk over the water, all of which can be fabulous, Honestly - the worst part of where I live is it demotivates me to want to travel anywhere else. Despite that, I do thou try (and manage) to travel for about 2 to 3 months outside of Thailand every year. Since retiring in Phuket, I am a lot more fussy now as to where I visit outside of Phuket, ... which IMHO can be blamed on me liking Phuket too much.