oldcpu

IMHO if IMHO than perhaps Thailand is not the place for you - if this is mostly about money? The world is full of fabulous places - and for many of us, where we live is not all about money. For certain, my decision to retire in Thailand was not only about money. I think we can ALL think of over a dozen countries in the west where the capital gains costs will be worse than Thailand. But if money is the issue - well, as noted - the world is large. Reading this thread (and others) it appears that for many that living in Thailand, for them, is all about money. Which is fair, but as I noted, then perhaps Thailand is not the right place for those with such a view? ... Just saying.

With regard to the LTR visa, the translations I have read of the Royal Decree state that foreign assessable income is tax exempt for certain categories of LTR visa holders. From what I read the Royal Decree for the LTR visa does not state foreign income is "not assessable". Rather its tax exempt. Does that difference in terminology matter? I don't know, but I suppose it might. It also could be quality of unofficial translations of the Royal Decree that I read are inaccurate. So its not yet clear to me if a Thai tax return will be required for assessable but tax exempt income. I hope a tax return is not required. I have an LTR-WP and until this is resolved I am not remitting money to Thailand. I am fortunate that the structure of my finances allows me to do such for a while.

Classified as tax exempt income? or classified as not assessable income? Note there is a Thai tax form where one is supposed to list their assessable income that is exempt tax. The difference in terminology might be important in being a factor in determining if a Thai tax return is appropriate for one with tax exempt assessable income.

For the Phuket Immigration office the volunteers web page can be helpful: https://piv-phuket.com/

I agree nominally its not needed. In my case it has come in handy. My Thai wife pressured me to get the yellow book & pink ID. Her Thai family (brothers/sister) thought it a bit funny, as they believed the pink-ID was nominally more for migrants from Myanmar or Laos (or other bordering countries) who are filling low paying jobs that the Thai nominally don't want to do. I do NOT know if that is true. They did laugh at the pink-ID. I do recall getting both the yellow book and pink-ID was a pain to get .... and took some time sitting in various government offices in Phuket. However my wife was insistent (and a happy wife is a happy life). 🙂 While the pink-ID is not needed, I can not deny it has come in handy on rare occasion. Aside from trivial discounts at national parks, the biggest (and not insignificant) use for the Pink-ID/Yellow book was when I was asked for a Thai tax ID by the Canadian bank where I have a large (for me) trading account. The Canadian institution wanted my Thai Tax ID Number (TIN) else they advised they would freeze my account (or force me to with draw everything from that account). Also, another Canadian institution wanted my Thai TIN before they would allow me to open an account with them. I had important financial reasons to open that account. Although I reside in Thailand for >180-days, since I haven't brought foreign income into Thailand since last year, the Thai Revenue Department (RD) wouldn't give me a Thai Tax ID Number (TIN). The Thai RD noted my pink-ID/yellow-book # could be my Thai TIN only after they activated it. They saw no need to activate it yet. So I passed to the Canadian financial institutions my Thai TIN, advising the Canadian financial institutions that the TIN was not yet active. They accepted that. That was a major benefit - but I concede most likely won't encounter that need. I also needed to buy some Thai government bonds as proof of part of my investment in Thailand for an LTR visa. The Thai bank advised they would only allow me to buy the bonds if I provided a Thai tax ID. Again, my pink-ID/yellow book number was accepted as a TIN (even thou not yet activated). So the Yellow Book/ID can come in handy at times. I do concede , it was a pain to get, and I suspect the vast majority of expats will have no need for such.

For those who dislike Phuket, it does mostly read that they base their assessment on Patong. My wife and I both live in the far south of Phuket, and we have 2 cars, so that we can each share our individual interests. I recall back in 1997 to 1999 (before I was married when a few times/month I would visit Patong) that parking in Patong was difficult, but doable. In the handful of years before COVID (on the occasional about once/year when I drove there to meet friends who were staying there) the parking was ugly and far far far worse than in 1997 to 1999. In my last visit (after COVID) which was about a year ago - parking was just as ugly as before COVID. I don't know of any expat who would want to live in Patong - yet many seem to judge Phuket by their Patong experience. I concede I can be selfish, and hope that many do judge Phuket by Patong, and thus stay away from the other more pleasant (for expats) areas of Phuket.

lol !! Try taking a tuk-tuk in Patong 🤣 [ie the "Phuket taxi mafia"] ...Having typed that, I think the taxi mafia hold is gradually being weakened (which is a good thing). Its been over a year since I last visited Patong - but it does seem to be the location by which many judge Phuket overall.

I like Chiang Rai. Would you have stayed there seasonally? During the first part of the calendar year, the air quality in Chiang Rai can be much less than desired IMHO - and that alone would drive me away at that time of year.

I don't think it has to. I suspect if one applies for a TIN and does not tell the RD that one has a yellow book/pink-ID, one might be given a different TIN (assuming one meets the RD criteria for issuing a TIN). But I believe if one advises the Thai RD that one has a yellow-book/pink-ID, they will then ensure that they are the same #. .

You are right.

Great ! Where did you look ? Patong? Did you visit Laguna? Rawai ? Chalong? Panwa ? If so - how long did you look? .

Indeed. I believe the relevant pink-ID # is the exact same as the Yellow book #. And nominally (most the time ?? ) as an expat one needs the Yellow Book first in order to get the Pink ID.

I had trouble getting a Thai TIN (even thou I have a pink-ID #). The local RD official advised that since I had no local Thai income, and since at present I was not bringing money into Thailand - they would not activate my Thai TIN (even thou I reside in Thailand >180 days/calendar (tax) year). So as noted - for now, I will use my Thai pink ID # with the caveat that it is not yet activated. I will try to have it activated as soon as it meets the conditions appropriate for the Thailand RD.

I was pressured for a Thai tax ID#by my overseas bank/trading accounts. I provided them my Thai Pink ID# with a caveat that it was not yet activated as a Thai tax ID #. They accepted that (so far). .

There is an online Thai tax form, but one needs a Thai Tax ID # in order to fill in the form online. I believe one can download the form, fill it in by hand, and take it to the local Revenue Department office. However whether they will accept such, given one does not yet have a Thai Tax ID # is a question that I can not answer. I am as curious as you about this. .

I can NOT answer your specific questions. My understanding is nominally (in the past) to get a Thai tax ID one needs to earn over a certain amount of money in Thailand per calendar (taxation) year. Recently, there has been a tax interpretation by the Thai revenue department that for any foreign tax resident in Thailand (ie was in Thailand for a cumulative time >180 days in a calender year) who bring foreign income earned after 1-Jan-2024 into Thailand (presumeably if over a certain (small) amount) will in the future have to pay tax (and thus get a tax ID). However if those conditions are not met (for example one is living off of money that was earned BEFORE 1-Jan-2024) then there is no need at present to get a Tax ID. I reside in Thailand > 180 days per calendar year. I do not (yet) have a Thai tax ID . I had a case where a Canadian bank threatened to suspend my Canadian account if I did not provide a Thai tax ID. Further, I recently opened a new trading account in Canada, and again they advised they would only do so if I provided a Thai tax ID. What I did was provide them my Thai pink-ID #, with a corresponding explanation that this was likely to be my Thai tax ID number, but that it was not yet activated. That explanation and number (for a TIN) was accepted (even thou it is not yet activated). Of course to get a pink-ID one must first get a yellow book, which may not be possible for yourself. I don't know how much (if any) of that was applicable to your situation, given the various details specific to your case.

Perhaps - if one (with a pink ID card) fills in tax form and postal mails (or hand delivers them) to the local Thai RD department. I have a pink-ID. Its number does NOT work for the online tax submission. A Phuket Revenue Department official explained to my wife that the pink-ID (of a foreigner) can not be used (online) as a Thailand Tax ID number (TIN) until it has been activated. It MUST be activated as a TIN prior to use as a TIN (for online submission). Activation of the Pink ID to be a TIN may not be as simple as some may suspect.

I don't dispute that assessment. I do note thou that there could be different assessments. Of course Thailand is Thailand - and other countries are different. I note thou, that my wife, who had minimal income in Canada, went for about 5 years without filing a tax return. Revenue Canada contacted her, and demanded she file a tax return for those 5 years. .... So we spent a few evenings finding the paperwork and submitting the returns. When the dust settled, Revenue Canada owed my wife a trivial amount of money. So small - it was not worth the effort to file a tax return. The point here - is sometimes governments want one to file a tax return even when money is not owed. As to Thailand? I don't know. There are changes brooding in the tax situation with respect to expatriates - and I can not predict how it will turn out. For 100% certain I can not say whose view is right or wrong. All I can do is try to structure my finances so not to be impacted until the situation clarifies more.

I type the following 'with respect'. As for my participation in this thread (and others on taxation) - I am participating in this thread seeking clarity. To ensure I do not need to file an income tax return, I have been careful NOT to bring current year income, into Thailand. But there may be a year when I want to do such. I was going to bring income into Thailand (from abroad) THIS YEAR until I discovered even the Phuket RD official could not give an answer as to whether a tax_ID would be needed for an LTR-WP visa holder who brought income into the country. I have the luxury of waiting until the situation clarified. But to state the requirement to get a tax-ID and to file a tax return is clear right now suggests to me that this has not been considered in detail.

I note the word "assessable" ...That is the key word here (in regards to my situation). If one reads the 'Royal Decree' for the LTR visa, it states that income tax is exempt for a foreigner classed as a Wealthy Pensioner with an LTR visa under the immigration law for assessable income derived in the previous tax year (and brought into Thailand) ... So it refers to assessable income - CLEARLY. And it notes for such that it is tax exempt. CLEARLY. But it does not state the assessment of one's income can be ignored (ie it doesn't state one's foreign income is not assessable). Rather it states the tax on assessable income is exempt. This is important (IMHO) when it comes to assessing if a tax return is needed and hence if a tax-ID is needed. Yet one reads this forum, (and also watch videos of purported tax experts) and many claim the foreign income is thus not assessable for LTR visa holders (who have been in Thailand > 180 days in a tax year). Is that that same ? Is it? Is "assessable income that is tax exempt" the same as "not assessable income"? If it is the same, then why does Thailand have a tax form where one lists "assessable income that is tax exempt". You claim the tax rules are very clear. Despite the clarity you see, I think you will find even the experts disagree. Even the Phuket RD official could not answer the question. So it gives me pause to think and wonder as to how clear is this really? Best wishes.

I have lots of income from outside of Thailand. I don't bring it into Thailand at present. Perhaps in the future I might. My main area of concern is will I, at sometime on the future, need to submit a Thai tax return to prove such to Thai RD satisfaction? For example, Canada wants tax returns from people who reside in Canada if their global income exceeds certain levels, even if the person earns no money in Canada. Clearly it is very prudent to monitor what is transpiring in Thailand as I am here for >180 days a calendar year.

What tax rules are that given my tax situation? I don't bring money into Thailand. My money that I need to live is already here and has been here for a while. If in the future I bring more money into Thailand it will be for income earned and savings saved from long before 1 Jan 2024. I am also on an LTR visa which may or may not be relevant. So I ask you again, what tax rules say that someone in my case must have a tax ID?

My approach is to always tell the truth to the tax people. Lying simply to get a Thai tax ID makes zero sense to me. At present I don't bring money into Thailand, and I am on an LTR visa I am supposed to be exempt tax on foreign income brought into Thailand. Now if Thai RD makes it clear LTR visa holders must file a tax return in a case such as mine, I will go to the Phuket RD office and sit in their office until they give me a tax ID. At present thou, having been told by Phuket RD that they don't want to give me a tax ID just risks causing the government official to lose face. I prefer to avoid such unless they are blatantly wrong. So instead I plan to monitor the news re expat taxation, re LTR visa tax return submission requirements ( if any) , and check out the Thai 2024 tax year income tax return forms to see what I can learn. But I won't rush to potentially p*ss off the local RD officials. I draw the line there. I think everyone has to look at their own income and residency situation, and take the best legal approach that they can in regard to tax IDs, tax returns and taxation.

I am curious about this also. As I have posted before - my wife applied on line to get a Thai tax ID for myself. This resulted with a Phuket RD official phoning my wife. After hearing (1) I resided in Thailand for >180 days , AND, (2) my income was from OUTSIDE of Thailand (pensions), and (3) I was not at present bringing money into the country, the official stated I did NOT need a tax-ID. When asked about my "pink-ID" and could that not be used as a tax-ID, the official noted it had to be activated first, and the official saw no need to activate it given my situation. .

For those not familiar with the Thai Revenue Department order no. P.162/2023 ... Here is a google translation (from Thai to English). Obviously a google translation is NOT official. Again - disregard the format !!! as its a Goggle Translation. It is not an official translation - rather this is the presentation google gives when one drags an image document into Google to translate.