Pib

Unless your did a "domestic wire" (repeat a wire) from your U.S. bank to Bangkok Bank NY for relay to Thailand I find it hard to believe you did a standard/domestic ACH transfer since that transfer would have to be in the "International ACH Transaction (IAT)" which very few U.S. banks use except for some business accounts which transfer funds to some banks in other countries who also have ACH capability (which are few). A domestic wire also goes over the ACH network just like a domestic/standard ACH transfer, however, the domestic wire format and bank-to-bank settling process is different from a domestic/standard ACH transfer. Now if you did a domestic wire, yes, Bangkok Bank NY will accept that and relay it to your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank acct just like the pre-Oct 2019 days when the NY branch could still accept a standard/domestic ACH transfer not in IAT format and relay it to your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank acct. The standard/domestic ACH transfer format is a different format from the ACH IAT format which includes additional information/coding. All U.S. banks can "receive" a domestic or IAT format transfer....but very few will "send" in IAT format simply because they don't want to get involved in funds being transferred outside the U.S. unless the SWIFT system is used....or in some cases a domestic wire will work since its format/info contained is similar to a SWIFT transfer. Now, there are still some U.S. govt agencies who make monthly pension/benefits payments which do not use the ACH IAT format (their systems haven't been upgraded to use IAT format yet)....Bangkok Bank NY branch has a waiver from the U.S. Treasury allowing them to continue to relay those payments to a person's in-Thailand Bangkok Bank acct.

Wise does not use ACH transfers between Wise and Thai banks. A Thai bank would have to be part of the U.S. ACH system with a "routing number" to allow that. Only one Thai bank has ACH receiving capability and that's Bangkok Bank via their New York branch which has an ACH/ABA routing number. Instead, Wise uses a peer-to-peer system where Wise already has contract agreeements/accounts with key Thai banks and Wise simply directs the transfer of funds from one of those accts to your Thai bank acct. In fact, Kaiskorn is one of Wise's key partner banks along with Bangkok Bank and DeeMoney. Now, Wise does use the ACH system to obtain your funding from another U.S. bank to fund your transfer of Thai baht....but after getting your funding via the ACH system in the U.S. that is when Wise then uses their peer-to-peer transfer system to get the money from your home country (like the U.S.) to Thailand.

MicroB I'll just add that after reading Section 5, Para 5 (quoted below) of the Thailand-UK DTA "and" how you described your duties/responsibilities I do not think you working from Thailand would be considered establishing a Permanent Establishment since your duties/responsibilities do not include the authority to conclude contracts on behalf of your company.......you do not maintain a stock of goods to fill orders.....and you do not secure orders. But ultimately it's your company that must make the decision if you working from Thailand with an LTR visa somehow creates a new/additional tax burden for your company.

MicroB, The answer to your question if far beyond the knowledge within my pea brain, but the Double Tax Agreement (DTA) between Thailand and the UK may offer some info. The DTA is located at below Thailand Revenue Department webpage...Section 5 of the DTA deals with Permanent Establishment. https://www.rd.go.th/english/770.html

Correct....but your THB is used to buy whatever other currency you want to send.....like if wanting to transfer funds to a U.S. bank you would exchange THB for USD. So in a round about way you did send THB but by exchanging it for another currency. Just like when sending money to Thailand via Wise you use another currency like USD, GBP, EUR to buy & send THB.

On reddit they are talking about it....apparently like you said it's in beta testing....and apparently it's done via DeeMoney since DeeMoney is a Wise partner for sending THB money into Thailand. Looks lie Wise is indeed setting up the ability to send money out of Thailand in partnership with DeeMoney.

A few days ago I went to BoI to ask face-to-face if Tricare and similar type U.S. govt insurance policies "now" met BoI requirements for an LTR visa based on recent social media crossfeed regarding the LTR visa. And the answer was Yes. I mentioned that in mid Oct I had initially been told via LTR Contact form reply that Tricare was acceptable, but during late Oct and thru Nov when my LTR application was processing my Tricare was not accepted so I self-insured instead. And there was also social media crossfeed of some applicants who had similar U.S./U.N. sponsored health care coverage which is open-ended (i.e, no end date shown on policy statement) that most applicants were being rejected and but some accepted....but it seemed like the most recent applicants were now seeing a much higher acceptance rate....like BoI had become more flexible regarding insurance policy coverage for Tricare/U.S. govt type polices. The BoI rep said during Oct-Nov there was not total agreement within BoI and some other coordinating agencies if Tricare and similar type of U.S. govt sponsored polices were indeed acceptable and useable in Thailand, but apparently that has now been resolved and the coverage considered acceptable as such policies do indeed provide excellent worldwide coverage. BoI and other coordinating govt agencies are now aware such policies may not have a policy statement sheet that reflects a specific annual end date like a typical civilian insurance policy. For these type of polices which don't have a firm annual end date (example: 1 Jan-31 Dec 2022 coverage) but basically just show you are indeed enrolled and don't have to take any action to continue your enrollment year-to-year they prefer the policy/benefits letter has a statement somewhere that no action is required to continue annual enrollment. However, I stressed medical coverage like "Tricare Overseas/Select, Tricare for Life, etc.," don't require annual reenrollment as it's automatic, doesn't have an end date, and doesn't have any statement on the Tricare Benefits Letter saying year-to-year enrollment is automatic. And as far as I know from my personal experience of being enrolled in Tricare Overseas/Tricare for Life for many years a person does not get an enrollment card, Tricare does not come with a civilian policy type coverage statement/sheet, etc.; instead all you can get is the Tricare Benefits Letter I posted an example of above which just basically confirms you are enrolled in one of the various Tricare programs...and it will also show how long you been enrolled up to a maximum of 6 years in the past. Since this was the only Tricare letter I'm aware a person in Tricare Overseas/Tricare for Life can get from the Dept of Defense I wanted to confirm if it's adequate evidence of having Tricare. The rep said it should be but he would ask his supervisor. He then took the letter to his BoI supervisor and a few minutes later came back and confirmed the Tricare Benefits Letter provides adequate evidence. So, hopefully, Tricare and similar type U.S./U.N. sponsored polices with no end date are now indeed acceptable as first reported by Misty from that BoI and American Chamber of Commerce conference call. A good step forwarded...this should make it a lot easier for military and other govt retirees to meet the LTR medical coverage requirement based purely on their coverage versus having to resort to self-insuring (if possible). Time will tell. Hopefully we will soon have some folks post that their opened end Tricare/U.S./U.N. sponsored medical coverage satisfied the LTR requirement....and hopefully they will mention what "document(s)" provided the evidence....like maybe that Tricare Benefits Letter example I posted above.

Update: Known LTR Visa Approvals as of 18 Jan 2023 "based on posts in this thread I saw." Added in bold text "F Groenen" (a brand new AseanNow member) who received his LTR Work From Thailand visa final approval notice 22 Nov 2022....would have got the final approval several weeks earlier but additional insurance docs were requested....see his post above for details. Congrats to F Groenen!!! Poster & Date Final Approval Notice Rec'd 1. BKKNono - 15 Sep 2022 2. ashkale - 28 Sep 2022 3. ThailandRyan - 28 Sep 2022 4. pepper402 - 29 Sep 2022 5. gajah - 30 Sep 2022 6. Alotoftravel - 4 Oct 2022 7. James7 - 4 Oct 2022 8. & 9. Misty (and family member) - 4 Oct 2022 10. mudcat - 4 Oct 2022 11. & 12. stuarty (and wife) - 4 Oct 2022 13. Boomer6969 - 5 Oct 2022 14. aublumberg - 12 Oct 2022 15. JJJJJJJJ - 8 Nov 2022 16. F Groenen - 22 Nov 2022 17. smic - 28 Nov 2022 18. Paul3456 - 30 Nov 2022 19. anotherexpat4444 - 7 Dec 2022 20. User3847385 - 8 Dec 2022 21. & 22. Zuman - 16 Dec 2022 (and Mrs Zuman on 27 Dec 2022) 23. lextsy - 21 Dec 2022 24. Pib - 23 Dec 2022 25. Saraburi121 - 23 Dec 2022 26. khunjeff - 26 Dec 2022 27. TaiMaiTai - 4 Jan 2023

Have you been approved for an LTR visa or just want to know about the payment method if you do apply and get approved? If you have been approved, what day did you apply and what day did you get the "final" approval notice/email? And any additional details you might want to share about your application experience are appreciated as it's the details that sometimes provide real chunks of golden info. Like F Groenen's post was full of great details. Thanks.

I too was at BOI and Immigration today....went to ask BOI some questions about Tricare health insurance and similar type insurance which are open-ended which I will post about later....and I also swung by the Immigration Office Fee Payment counter regarding Ramilf's question. Although Immigration has a sign on the fee counter window saying along the lines of Cash Not Accepted, Only QR Payment Accepted like khunjeff said above when I asked the fee clerk if cash is accepted she said Yes, for LTR visa only. I then pointed to the sign saying Cash Not Accepted and she said it is accepted for LTR only. Don't know why they don't update the sign....guess it's their way of pushing QR payment and only having to deal with cash payment for the large LTR fee. I then asked is debit and/or credit cards accepted and she said No, only cash or QR payment for LTR visa. Now I thought I remember someone posting in this long thread or maybe it was another thread saying they were able to pay their LTR visa fee at BoI immigration with a debit/credit card (but maybe I'm not remembering it right). However, all I can say for sure is what I was told today/18 Jan by immigration face-to-face with the fee counter representative. Cash or QR payment for LTR visa is accepted although the sign on the window will say Cash Not Accepted....and once again debit/credit cards not accepted.

Congrats. So those listening in can get an idea of how long it takes to get a LTR visa, when did you apply and when did you get the approval notice/endorsement from BoI? And any other info about your application, like maybe a request for additional docs, would be good crossfeed. Again, congrats.

Kyle, In your case Thailand decided not to hit you with a lot of little con jobs over your 12 years in Thailand; instead, Thailand saved them for one BIG con job. This benefit is specifically reserved for TikTok Stars.

Thanks for that crossfeed. I just used the Bangkok Bank mobile app to request 12 months statement on two of my accts....received the statement via email 1 to 2 minutes later. Looks pretty official with Bangkok Bank letterhead, your name, unredacted acct number....but as you said no signature/stamp like you get when requesting a 12 month statement in person at your branch. Just for other listening in, the area in the app to request a 12 month statement is kinda buried in the app IMO....you first open your acct, then select the 3 dots in the upper right hand corner of the phone screen, then select Request Account Statement, then select the date range up to 12 months, then select an English or Thai statement and Confirm. Within a minute or two the password protected statement arrives via email....the email tells you what the password is---it's your birthdate (pretty standard for receiving such docs). A person can get a very similar statement using Bangkok Bank ibanking but the max time period allowed is 6 months. Unless a person's immigration office is hard core in requiring a bank signature/stamp (which some are) then the statement should indeed satisfy an immigration office like it did Tuvoc's Chiang Rai office. Some immigration offices will not accept a statement received via email and not bank signed/stamped....all depends on your immigration office.

Update: I contacted BoI via their online contact form asking about the info in Misty's post regarding Tricare and similar type U.S. govt sponsored policies. I got a quick response shown below. Now the response only mentioned Tricare vs also saying similar type U.S. govt sponsored coverage like I know a lot of U.S. govt or U.N. retirees have opened ended type medical coverage policies (i..e, no end date) sponsored by the government agency they retired from and the coverage is through a civilian insurance company. That opened ended coverage basically renews automatically....and I think in those types of polices the members receive some type of policy coverage sheet/letter that closely resembles what a standard civilian insurance policy reflects with the exception of a end date. Anyway, here is BoI's response. Sure wish Tricare had been acceptable in Oct/Nov 2022 when I applied. Now as I mentioned in a much earlier post in this thread BoI didn't flat-out reject my Tricare by saying such in an LTR online notification or email; it's just my application Status changed to "Request for Additional Docs" one day and in the area of the application/Docs Upload area there was just a comment which basically saying a Heath insurance policy with at least 10 months remaining OR Thailand social security coverage OR self insure is required. To me that was a nice way of saying "No, your submitted Tricare docs are not good enough, so please submit one of above type docs. And that is when I went the self insure route. But unfortunately, as I have Tricare as a military retiree of many years, I do not know what document they are talking about which shows the Tricare insurance will renew annually. The only document I'm aware of you can get saying you are enrolled in Tricare is a one page benefits letter you can download from the military "DEERS" system which stands for Defense Eligibility Enrollment Reporting System if you have a milConnect online acct. I guess a person could also get the letter maybe by contacting DEERS via phone or in person, but I got mine by going online. This DEERS benefits letter is very generic in nature (snapshot below), lists your name and enrollment date up to six years earlier, but no where does it talk the coverage will renew itself annually. A typical military type benefits letter that uses very generic wording. See snapshot at bottom. HOWEVER, there are variations of Tricare....such as Tricare for Life, Tricare Prime, Tricare Select/Overseas, etc., which is meant for different groups of military active and reserve duty, retirees, etc. "And there are several Tricare contractors involved in managing the worldwide Tricare program"...like a couple different contractors for people living in the U.S., a contractor for those living overseas, etc., and that is the contractor each enrollee will deal with when arranging medical care and filing a claim. There is "not" just one Tricare contractor the millions of Tricare enrollees worldwide will deal. See a list of the various contractor and partners at this Tricare weblink: https://www.tricare.mil/About/Partners The contractor that enrollees who live outside the U.S. and/or have Tricare for Life would probably deal with the WPS contractor based in Wisconsin who I think is a subcontractor to the SOS contractor. And if you log onto your WPS online acct, which is basically just for filing a claim, there is no such benefit letter available....I've been using the WPS claims portal for many years. BUT MAYBE, other Tricare contractors on their websites do offer some type of coverage/benefits coverage letter that does talk auto renewal. I plan to call WPS in the near future to ask abut such a letter, but I will be surprised to no end if there is such a letter they can provide saying I'm enrolled in Tricare for Life/Overseas and it automatically renews annually. More research to do I guess....maybe even go visa BoI in the near future see if they would show me a redacted version of the letter they are talking about....the type of letter they are satisfied with. I'm sure there are many military retirees with Tricare coverage monitoring this thread. So, if you know what Tricare coverage letter BoI is referring to that says your Tricare coverage renews annually (versus some general info Tricare website/booklet that talks such) then please share that info. It may boil down to some of the Tricare contractors might provide a coverage letter that provides the info BoI is looking for....a letter totally unrelated to the generic DEERS benefit letter. I sure hope this don't end up being a situation where only those Tricare enrollees with certain contactors can get the type of letter BoI is looking for. Example of Tricare Benefits letter available from "DEERS"

You do have a good point that if a person opts to have their LTR visa issued at a Thai Embassy/Consulate that the person does not have to go anywhere. If it's OK to do it that way then it's not absolutely essential that "only" the BOI Bangkok Chamchuri Square Immigration Office could issue the visa within Thailand with the person showing up in person. I expect it really boils down to if HQ Immigration is willing to add LTR issue authority workload to every or various Immigration offices around Thailand even if it is small workload. Like maybe at immigration offices such as Chiang Mai since there is also a BoI regional office there. The BoI has 7 regional BoI offices around Thailand not including the Bangkok BoI Office. Most organizations are reluctant to take on additional workload unless more manpowera/money comes with the responsibility.....and government organizations typically hate transferring manpower/money from their budget to another government organization unless someone high-up the totem pole orders it. And I doubt the BOI is willing/able to transfer manpower/budget unless someone way-up the totem just says, "Make It Happen!!!" Plus, I think the great majority of LTR applicants who select that they want their LTR visa issued within Thailand are applicants who live in Thailand and are able & willing to travel to Bangkok to get the LTR visa issued since it only has to be done initially and at the 5 year mid point of the 10 year visa....and actually that 5 year mid point process is still something in the works as far as I know. So, the BoI and Immigration are probably not too concerned about travel by applicants within Thailand. But who knows, as mentioned in an earlier post the BoI is going thru the process of selecting "Certified Agents" and I expect how much authority/responsibilities Certified Agents will have is maybe something not yet fully decided. Maybe, just maybe, they would be authorized to do "all of the legwork" to including the applicant having to go to Immigration in person to accomplish the final step of having the LTR visa inked into their passport. Because that final step is really nothing more than having your photo taken twice and fingerprints taken once while at Immigration, signing a few docs, and paying the Bt50K fee. And the fingerprints thingie doesn't apply if getting the LTR visa issued outside of Thailand via the evisa system. Throw-in a power of attorney and maybe, just maybe, it would be possible for BoI and Immigration to allow an applicant to never show-up at Immigration just to get the LTR inked into your passport. But my gut is also telling me that is probably a Wish Upon a Star ending vs a reality ending. Time will tell. You know (and I know) you can meet the income and medical coverage requirements....if you can handle a two day trip Chiang Mai-Bangkok (if traveling via ground transportation) for a simple final step taking only 1 to 2 hour at BoI Chamchuri Square then go-for-it. Heck, maybe even take a morning flight from Chiang Mai to Bangkok with an evening flight back to Chiang Mai. Yeap, a long day but no overnight stay in Bangkok.

I would agree with the "Probably not" for a visa that is totally managed and approved by Immigration (zero BOI involvement) who probably do not have the foreign language skills "nor desire" to review foreign insurance polices even if they required translation to Thai. But the BoI does have the language and knowledge skills to evaluate foreign medical policies. And yea, I'm sure the Thai insurance mafia lobby fiercely and monetarily to keep it hard to use a foreign insurance policy for visa approval purposes. Let's just call these types of 1 year max visas such a Non-O, Non O-A a "Standard" visa. However for a visa like the Elite visas no insurance is required....basically only a police check and a LOT of money is required to pay the visa Fee. Like Bt600K for a 5 year Elite visa, Bt1M for a 10 year Elite Visa, all the way up to Bt2M for a 20 year Elite visa. I expect the govt figures anyone willing to pay that much money for a visa fee definitely has plenty of money, probably outstanding insurance, and/or can easily self insure. And if the govt tried to require an insurance policy it would be enough to turn-off a lot of potential Elite visa applicants who would then just opt for a Standard visa or now the LTR visa.....and the govt probably much prefers to collect a high govt visa fee versus losing that big fee because they succumb to the Thai insurance mafia by requiring an insurance policy. Let's call the Elite visa a "Premium Plus" visa. And now we have the 10 year LTR visas for Bt50K but some healthy income requirements and medical insurance or Thai social security medical coverage or self insure is required. It's kinda in-between a Standard visa and a Premium Plus visa Let's call the LTR visa a "Premium" visa.

The Japanese and Chinese investment in Thailand is generally the largest in "baht-amount" but the number of entities is really not that high. Fewer entities (i.e., companies) then probably few long term visas needed. Like this 15 Dec 2022 news article said the first 11 months of 2022 saw Japanese investment of 39 billion baht by 137 entities and Chinese investment of almost 23 billion baht but only 25 entities. Although China is close to Thailand and has largest population on Earth it seems its investments in Thailand are by a relatively low number of BIG companies versus a LOT of Chinese companies investing BIG amounts. And I expect many Chinese companies prefer to manufacturer products in China....the land of huge cities and huge factories.....versus setting up a lot of companies outside China. Manufacturing in China is probably the most cost effective location for the great majority of Chinese companies. Plus, the SMART visa was totally focused towards business type visas....working in a company in Thailand; zero focus towards retirees. And I think the longest a SMART visa was good for was 4 years costing 10K baht per year....even some were offered for only 6 months....all depended on the type of business and how long certain expertise was needed. Whereas the LTR visa is focused towards pretty much anyone that wanted to invest in, work in, or retire in Thailand for 10 years. It's just opened to a wider group of people than the SMART visa.

Well that's great news about Tricare. However, they did not accept my application using Tricare in late Nov 2022. I had to self insure. But when I asked in mid Oct 2022 before submitting my application they said Tricare is accepted but as mentioned they did not accept it when I actually applied in Oct. I do hope that BOI has indeed had a change of heart about Tricare "and similar type of US govt sponsored insurance policies that provide worldwide coverage and do not have an end date/are basically open ended. That is, as long as you are still breathing and paying any required monthly premium the policy remains in force...is basically on autopilot till death due you part. This LTR insurance policy change will make it easier for more retired military/government American retirees to meet the LTR medical coverage requirement.

Such as?

According to the primary BoI spokeman for the LTR program (the lady in below post/video) you would just need to prove your "total" investments would cover a 10 year period, like at least 800K USD which would provide 80K USD per year. And those investments would need to be in under a pension or annuity type fund to qualify. But with so many different types of investment/retirement funds called different names in different different countries I expect there is flexibility in your investment fund type. See what the BoI spoken and video maker says around the 14 minute mark of the video. See below post which has a video and key snapshots from the LTR related youtube video regarding Wealthy Pensioner income requirements.

Well, the BoI LTR Visa with 745 approved over approx 4 months (around 186/month) is certainly doing better than its sister BoI SMART Visa program which shows 1060 approved over 49 months (around 22/month) https://smart-visa.boi.go.th/smart/pages/statistics.html SMART Visa Results over 49 months from 1 Feb 2018 to 28 Feb 2022

Misty, Where you say about half of apparently Returned for more information is that like when an application's status changes to "Request for Additional Docs" which doesn't seem to be uncommon for many applications? In this long thread quite a few applicants got such requests (to include me) like maybe wanting a copy of your tax return to help validate other income docs you initially provided.....or maybe more medical coverage docs. Or was the Returned application for more serious documentation issues beyond just a request for additional docs? Like maybe just flat out rejecting some docs? Just wondering if BoI might have elaborated a little more on issues causing a Rejection.

Since you are not drawing a pension/Individual Retirement Account (IRA) type income where a stable/fixed x-amount is being paid to you monthly/quarterly/annually but instead you are drawing X-amount from an investment account the BoI will need to see you have enough in that investment account(s) to cover 10 years of 80K.....that is, you would need at least 800K USD in the investment account......10 divided into 800K equals 80K/year. You will also need an insurance policy providing 50K USD coverage in Thailand with at least 10 months remaining on the policy when applying OR Thai social security medical coverage OR self-insure with 100K USD in a bank acct (foreign or Thai) for at least 12 months. Some people self-insuring have been able to use a retirement/investment acct to meet the 100K USD self-insure requirement although the LTR visa regulation calls for a bank acct.

You are talking the O-X visa; this thread is about the new LTR visa. Two completely different animals.

The 500K USD only applies to one category of LTR visa. Counting the LTR Dependent there are 5 LTR categories....all with different income requirements. Don't get hung-up thinking 500K USD applies to all categories of the LTR visa. Full info at the BOI LTR Visa website: https://ltr.boi.go.th/index.html