thaibeachlovers

Now the Thai government's attempts to replace low budget tourists with hiclass ones is backfiring, as rich people can go anywhere in the world, and the backpackers and mongers who would have kept coming are priced out of LOS.

The only question is whether the policy will be reversed before it is too late, and Cambodia and the Phillipines take the customers away.

I think you are right in the fact that tourism has a greater impact in employment than manufacturing and this has been studied. My recollection though, is that the impact is not as great as we assume. I dont remember the exact numbers but its something like for 7% of the GDP it employs some 9% of the work force. In addition, they do their best to capture the periphery employment but with all aggregate data its a little sketchy, particularly in Thailand where data collection is suspect to begin with.

One of the problems with tourism is that it is so visible to anecdotal observation, it is easily seen, takes up a huge amount of room, and advertises heavily. Manufacturing on the other hand, is hidden away and seldom if ever seen. One small manufacturing facility with 100 or so workers is able to bring in far more revenue than 50 bar beers with 500 workers. That usually raises the question of does the revenue stay in Thailand with the factory because we know it mostly does with the bar beers. Those are the kind of questions that economists love to debate at great length and which seem to me rather pointless. All the economic data is more abysmal science and I think the numbers should be taken as generalities and not facts. The trends seem more important than the status and for now the trend on the thai baht is to continue strengthening until something gives.

While I do not disagree with what you say, I would point out that a bar girl who could expect to make enough with a few customer "assignations" to support many family members is contributing more to the local economy than a factory worker who will barely make enough to survive. However none of the family members are recognised in the compilation of official tourism statistics ( and her income is "off the books" ).

If all the peripheral workers, eg hawkers, shoe shine boys etc were reconised, then I'm sure tourism would be reconised as contributing a far greater income to the Thai economy than 7%.

With the increasing baht, it is precisely those "unseen" workers that will miss out, as who will pay for a shoe shine, when the hotel cost just went up 200 baht a day, and the forex just went down by 2 baht?

It was about 1993 when I decided Thailand was where I would eventually retire At that time the exchange rate was approximately 25 baht to a dollar. That is the rate that I based my retirement needs on. I didn't watch the GBP then, but for curiosity, I looked it up. The exchange rate in 1993 was approximately 38 baht to the GBP.

What makes anyone think that the rates won't go back to those figures? I like to think that I have had a very comfortable surplus all these years. I could have easily retired much earlier during the time of the baht collapse. I didn't because I thought the baht would eventually gain its strength back. Fortunately for me, the baht has not gone back back to 25 to a dollar but it could. Who can say if it will or not?

To reiterate what I wrote before, the figures are meaningless. It's what a present pound or dollar can buy in Thailand that counts.

While I could have lived very comfortably in LOS back in '93 at 38 to 1 pound, now, with the prices of everything that I use having at least doubled, I could not afford to live long time in LOS at the same x rate.

I would point out that while the cost of everything has gone up significantly, due to British restrictions on public sector workers pay rises over the past 10 years, my income went down in purchasing power.

Here we go. You are talking about your teeth and your regimen of dental health and hygiene which is very subjective. Having said that, 12 root canals? You a big sugar fan or what?

My sum experience is 2 root canals over 30 years. One was done in the US, quite expensive but done quickly with the subsequent loss of the tooth several years later. The other was done last month by Dr Donglagorn at BPH* and because of an infection in the longest root, took 4 treatments BEFORE the crowning stage.

The need for a crown or otherwise is only debatable for those who wish to save money. You may also be lucky and get a 'temporary' filling instead of forking out for a complete one. Your teeth, your call but it's irresponsible to suggest that crowns are not required just because you chose to avoid the extra cost.

* BTW, there's several lady dentists on the books at BPH so sorry you got one that wasn't to your linking.

Wow, talk about spitting the dummy! Just where did I mention "my regimen of dental hygeine"?

And what does my liking or otherwise for sugar have to do with the OP's request for information?

However as you have brought up YOUR experience, my problems were caused by the large fillings done by dentists back in the "dark ages" of dentistry. Eventually, they kill the roots, and it's either dentures or root canals.

I mentioned the crown business because the dentist almost always push for it to be done, and, IN MY EXPERIENCE, has never been necessary. There's nothing "temporary" about the fillings they put in, all of which have lasted many years. Same white plastic fillings as used in a "normal" tooth filling. IMO, crowns are NOT necessary, unless there is an actual clinical reason, other than making the dentist money. I'd say it's irresponsible of you to suggest that they ARE necessary, when you have so little actual experience of root canals.

Just because your tooth got infected, does not mean that a routine treatment would last four appointments, which was why I was asking.

If you eventually lost the tooth anyway, does that say something about American standards of dental treatment?

Fact of life; if one person in an establishment treats you badly, you will probably regard the entire establishment with dislike. In a country with so many choices, there is no need to go back to anywhere you have had a bad experience in.

Find an endodontist(root canal specialist) either here at BPH or in Bangkok at one of the leading clinics like dentalhospitalbangkok.com......an endodontist has received alot of special training in root canals and should be able to deal with any problems that might arise. My father was an endodontist in the USA and he only did root canals.

The specialist I mentioned north of Dolphin roundabout is an endodontist.

The one I've used for the last 5 or 6 years is on the ground floor of Jomtien Complex Condo, but that's probably not much use to you if your GF's cheap room is in North Pattaya. If you told us where in town you will be located, maybe you would get some more useful replies?

P.S. commiserations on the crap pound, you're not alone in feeling Gordon Clown's nasty pinch.

Thanks for the replies.

Don't yet know where I'll be staying ( Roll on April! ). The GF says she has found a place at 5000bht a month, but don't know where it is.

Anyone had experience of using a safety box in a bank?

I'll have to stop checking the Baht rates- way too depressing!

So when I think about Thailands baht, I mostly think of exports. Since this economy is mostly made up of exports, around 60 or so percent depending on who you ask, and slightly made up of tourism, the relative strength of the baht is of fundamental importance in the long term prosperity of the country.

Your post was informative, but I have deleted a large part for simplicity .

Anyway, my 5 cents worth.

I'm presuming that most expats living in LOS, are like myself, wanting to live there because they like the place better than wherever they originated, and would have moved there while the real value of their own currencies was significantly higher than the baht, irrespective of the figures, ie, does the exchanged currency provide a liveable income? Whether the baht exchanged at 31 to the pound in 1975 or whenever is irrelevant. To simplify, how many Big Macs would 1 exchanged pound have bought in 1975 compared to today.

If, as I believe, you can buy a lot less in real terms with your exchanged currency now, it must sooner or later have an effect on tourism.

As for expats, if not one of the lucky ones earning the big bahts in Thailand, like myself, if real value of the exchanged pound continues to decrease, there will inevitably come a time when it is financially impossible to live long term in LOS.

While it is true to say that ( official statistics ) tourism is a small part of the overall economy, in real ( human ) terms it is huge. Observing life in the tourist areas, for every person working directly with tourists, whether bargirl or waiter, there are many more living on the periphery, eg laundry worker, hairdresser, beach hawkers etc etc, and any downturn in tourist numbers directly affects vast numbers of un(officially)counted Thai workers. IMO, the large increase in crime in Pattaya was caused by the decrease in tourist numbers, as many lost the means to make an "honest" living.

So, whether you believe that "tourism" is of such small size overall to be largely irrelevant, if numbers continue to decline it will, IMO, cause significant social problems.

Of course, all the present workers in tourism may just go back to the farm and do backbreaking work for a pittance, but then again they may not, and what will happen then?

^Well at the end of the day you shouldnt worry what other people think about thailand. Regardless whether its true or not these people will think the same and funny thing is if you ask them if they been to thailand and the answer is NO. Prostitution is way of life in thailand, and should be looked at as a model for the rest of the world.

BTW - you keep concentrating on Pattaya, most people in the world could not tell you where it is or have ever heard of it. Now Bangkok they have... Remember Thai people do not care what foreigners think of them - you are farang and do not understand the thai way.

Are you really serious about these two comments? Thai prostitution as a model for the rest of the world. What exactly do you mean? Do you mean that the rest of the world should have prostitution in your face on every corner of every city in the world?????????

Thai people do care what the world thinks of them. All the thais I know and that is a lot say they hate the image and feel put down. I may be farang but do understand the thai way of life as my grandfather is thai, my wife is thai and my children are thai.

Are YOU serious?

If Thais hate prostitution that would be hypocritical to say the least, given the huge Thai prostitution scene, or is it just that they don't like foreigners knowing about it?

I also doubt that they care about the Pattaya scene as so many come to Pattaya to live and play. If they were offended, they'd go elsewhere, surely?

Where in Thailand is prostitution on every street corner? Pattaya is huge, and the "scene" is in one tiny area. If you don't like it I suggest you avoid Walking St, Beach Rd, 2nd Rd, Naklua and Soi Buakow ( ? spelling ). I doubt you will feel "offended" anywhere else.

I don't think Brit was suggesting all the world should be like Walking St, just saying that it is more honest to have it out in the open, rather than hiding it away as at present in most western countries. Prostitution is rampant in London, but supressed and extremely sleasy. I'd much rather have the Thai model.

Can someone recommend a safety box place to me please? I'll be staying in my GF's cheap room, thanks to the cr-p pound exchange rate ( thanks Gordon, not ), so will be needing somewhere to keep valuables, passport etc.

Would prefer somewhere that I can access 7 days a week.

Thanks.

seems there are two different views, an upmarket family orientated resort or the cheep, sleazy, dirty, dump that it is today.

My answer would be simple, leave Pattaya as it is today, then drastically reduce building in Jomtien and only allow upmarket Shopping Malls, 5 star Hotels and high class Condo projects.

Way too simplistic. I actually feel the majority view is that Pattaya is big enough to accommodate many kinds of tourists and residents. There is probably also a consensus for improving the infrastructure and cleaning up the ugliest eyesores.

Not so. As the infrastructure is "improved" in Pattaya the pressure goes on the authorities to remove the bar scene, as it puts off potential family tourists, which is where the money is for the big resorts.

Basil is right, Jomptien should be where the upmarket stuff is built, and Pattaya should be left to us mongers.

While I dislike the eyesores and other problems in Pattaya, I'd rather have them than another Hua Hin sh-t hole.

Had mine done at the dentist near dusit thani dolphin roundabout. I can't remember the name but it is the one near the entrance to the little road that runs alongside Dusit Thani Hotel. They speak English and I have no complaints.

try happy dental clinic 038 723087 she did root canal post and porclin crown B 8500 takes 4 visits over 4 wks shes young speaks eng and great hygine

Did you have complications? I've had 12 root canals done over 30 years, and none took more than 2 visits. I did not have a crown for any of them either.

I used the clinic opposite the Bangkok Bank on 2nd Rd. Something Smile ( most of the clinics in Pattaya seem to have smile in the name! ).

There is also a specialist just north of Dolphin Roundabout, on the right, before the bars.

They usually try and get you to have a crown as well, but in my experience not normally necessary.

If Bangkok Hospital is the one north of North Rd on Sukhumvit ( please excuse my forgetfulness ), I went there and would not recommend it. The woman dentist that "treated" me was a b-t-h.

Get rid of all the "family" tourists.

More bars and girls.

Make freelancing along Beach Rd legal.

Extend Walking St to Central Rd

Convert Central Festival and Avenues to up market bar complexes.

More Russian women along Walking St.

More cheap hotels.

Direct airline ( regular, not charter ) flights to Pattaya, or a high speed railway from SB.

Something that actually could be done quite easily and would transform the town:

Make the entire length of beach road a walking street except for early in the morning to allow deliveries.

Leave #2 road one way as it is, and make #3 road one way in the opposite direction.

Surely you're kidding? It's enough of a walk between Beach and 2nd, and between 2nd and 3rd would be ridiculous, or are you proposing that if you want to go somewhere the opposite direction to travel you have to go all the way around the one way system?

I'd agree to Beach Rd being closed after 6pm, ( how nice would that be with outdoor cafe's? ), and 2nd road converted to two way all the time ( there's enough space to have two lanes each way already ).

Lets ban all those big tour buses from Beach Rd NOW!

Now it's getting way too expensive to live in Thailand if you like to have a good time ( ie bars and women ), plus staying at the beach has become overpriced, now that most of the cheap bungalows have gone upmarket.

And the legal side of staying in Thailand has got soooo complicated. Nuff said about that.

The main problem I have with the Thailand is too expensive argument is that noone seems to come up with a convincing alternative.

And to be honest, I dont see anymore inflation here than anywhere else. House prices have gone up but are the same in US$ terms as 15 years ago, yields and rents have probably fallen, a taxi costs the same, wine is still outrageous. We all spend more because we have better choices. We have added Bt2,000 to the maids salary.You can eat for as much or as little as you like. Hotels, I admit, are starting to take the piss.

With regard to hotels, I just found out the hotel I usually stay in at Pattaya increased it's rate from 600 to 800 baht. <deleted>!

Not to be personal, but why do so many people use house prices as an indicator of inflation? For most farangs coming to Thailand, house prices are completely irrelevant. All the things that I use, like hotels and entertainment have doubled, and in some cases tripled in cost since '97.

As for spending more, LOL, and my choices are limited to whatever is cheapest, and doing without.

Incidentally, over the past 10 years my income went down in real terms, as my wages increased less than inflation, and most costs went up more than inflation.

To any pensioner out here in Thailand. I don't have much sympathy as what you are doing is acting as a complete drain on UK economy. Your money is spent completely in Thailand. BUT....

CM is right, don't get caught between 2 stools. If you decide you live out here, reconcile yourself to providing for your very old age via a health policy or a good family. Most likely if you were to return to UK, it would be known you were living abroad and the chances are you would not be covered by NHS. I don't think you coud be refused treatment but bye, bye caital and savings.

What a complete load of rolex!

I pay tax in UK on my company and state pension and council tax on a house for services which I haven't used for 10 years. I paid NI contributions all my working life yet do not use the NHS. I help to support two banks how the heck am I a drain on the UK economy?

You are not typical in my view.

My argument is bound not to win friends I agree. Since becoming self employed, it's made me reallise just how unproductive most people really are. Is it too much to say that the average worker is a drain on the economy- personally I think not. And in my opinion the pension they receive is just plain lucdicrous and certainly will not happen in the future. To then take that pension and spend it another country! well that's my point.

I agree about people being unproductive, but IMO that is because most countries have become so overpopulated that they have exceeded their ability to to provide "real" jobs ( media studies anyone? ). In any western country, only a fraction of the population is involved in creating wealth, while the rest of the people just move money around, or suck off the welfare state.

I worked in the NHS till recently, and the number of people that were having free operations despite having never contributed a penny to Britain ( eg aged parents of immigrants ) is a scandal.

Till Britain gets some politicians with enough backbone to slaughter a few "sacred cows", the UK is set to continue on its downward spiral, as it continues to spend vast sums on people that shouldn't even be receiving welfare ( eg unmarried mothers and IVF treatment for starters- IMO )

However, I disagree about being able to spend your pension in another country. If you have contributed tax all your working life, and qualify for a pension, why shouldn't you receive it anywhere you like? In fact, by living in another country you are saving Britain money, by not utilizing costly health care services, for a start.

I believe Japan even encourages it's elderly to live in countries with a cheaper cost of living as it saves Japan money.

Remember B31 to the GBP and around B24.8 to the $. It's heading back to how it was 20 years ago. Exchange rates were more or less fixed then and it wasn't really until the big bubble burst in 1997 that rates went to they have been in the last 13 years.

I'd be happy with 31 bht to a pound if cost of living was same as 17 years ago! Also it was a lot easier for me to stay in Thailand ( 90 day permit to stay at the border renewed indefinitely ) back in the 90's.

Now it's getting way too expensive to live in Thailand if you like to have a good time ( ie bars and women ), plus staying at the beach has become overpriced, now that most of the cheap bungalows have gone upmarket.

And the legal side of staying in Thailand has got soooo complicated. Nuff said about that.

Ah dear! - the predictable TV defenders of institutionalized Thai police corruption.

Puts you on about the same level, I reckon.

stinky, you would have been fun to have around on TV when the police were shooting at random under Thaksin's "War on Drugs".

I can understand your call on this occassion Jack, but irregardless of what the Police may or may not have done, they will always be guilty in your eyes.

Whats your story Jack, why do you hate the cops so much....is there something you'd like to share with us?

I don't know why Jack hates the cops, but how can anyone support an institution that is totally corrupt, uses power only for themselves, denies the people that they are supposed to serve justice, and is completely useless?

OP you sound like a decent guy from previous posts here and on the TT .What the hel_l are you doing in Pattaya ?

Are you serious?

Good quality accomodation at affordable prices

70 TV channels, including local news, when I want to stay in

heaps to do when I want to go out

best show in the world every night on Walking Street

fantastic small cabaret at Malibu

amazing big cabarets at Alcazar and Tiffany's

hundreds of restaurants

great shopping

lots of new cinemas

don't have to worry about carrying passport or getting hassled by police

a bahtbus every 30 seconds for only 10 bht

convenience of a city with the dress sense of the beach

Yes there are some down sides, but it beats any other place in Thailand to just relax from the stress of working, IMO.

Wooow then we can ride bus all day and watch tv at night(70 channels) ,after getting bua at Malibu.Walking street, Alcazar and Tiffany and Bua after eating restaurantfood,aaand shopping same same....O and watch Good movies Soon Indiana Jones make a a new movie about The treasure hunting in the ancient city Pattaya heh heh.

After 10 years in London, I'd prefer Pattaya anytime. Certainly the cinemas are better than any there!

OP you sound like a decent guy from previous posts here and on the TT .What the hel_l are you doing in Pattaya ?

Are you serious?

Good quality accomodation at affordable prices

70 TV channels, including local news, when I want to stay in

heaps to do when I want to go out

best show in the world every night on Walking Street

fantastic small cabaret at Malibu

amazing big cabarets at Alcazar and Tiffany's

hundreds of restaurants

great shopping

lots of new cinemas

don't have to worry about carrying passport or getting hassled by police

a bahtbus every 30 seconds for only 10 bht

convenience of a city with the dress sense of the beach

Yes there are some down sides, but it beats any other place in Thailand to just relax from the stress of working, IMO.

Ha ,Ha ,and i thought you just came for the cheap readily advailable young ladies .

A year ago and you'd have been correct. However, I've been taken out of the monger's life by a nice young lady ( could only happen in LOS, given that no equivalent ladies in my own country would even give me time of day; not that I'd be interested in them anyway, but that's another story ), so have to think of other reasons to stay in Pattaya.

Just about fell out of the bahtbus the other day. There were some workmen on Second Rd by Soi 7 repairing the pavement.

At that rate, though, it will take about 20 years to work their way around Beach and Second!

PS. The sandbags have gone from Second Rd. Wow!

OP you sound like a decent guy from previous posts here and on the TT .What the hel_l are you doing in Pattaya ?

Are you serious?

Good quality accomodation at affordable prices

70 TV channels, including local news, when I want to stay in

heaps to do when I want to go out

best show in the world every night on Walking Street

fantastic small cabaret at Malibu

amazing big cabarets at Alcazar and Tiffany's

hundreds of restaurants

great shopping

lots of new cinemas

don't have to worry about carrying passport or getting hassled by police

a bahtbus every 30 seconds for only 10 bht

convenience of a city with the dress sense of the beach

Yes there are some down sides, but it beats any other place in Thailand to just relax from the stress of working, IMO.

Has the mayor sacked all the maintenance people in Pattaya? The beach walk hasn't seen ANY maintenance since he was elected, that I can see. It continues to disintigrate slowly. The holes get bigger, more sand covers the path. Undrained ponds whenever it rains. Even the flower beds have not seen any care, and the wooden rails have collapsed or been removed, allowing people to walk all over them. Rubbish is everywhere, light poles have fallen over, a wooden cover over a big hole sags more. Concrete manhole covers have been put back sticking up to catch the unwary. And what about those statues that used to line the path? Most have vanished. And this is what should be the center piece of "tourist Pattaya".

Beach sand washed away by the floods remains unreplaced.

Unattractive barbed wire fences along Beach and Second Rd, broken and obstructed footpaths, unsightly power poles in the middle of footpaths, dangerous cables hanging down, complete absence of footpaths in places, forcing pedestrians to risk their lives in the traffic, maniac drivers, completely unpoliced. And the traffic! Not a pedestrian crossing, anywhere. What a mess. I thought this was supposed to be a tourist resort, not a slum!

Sandbags continue to obstruct footpaths on Second road.

All those statements from City Hall after the recent flooding as to how they were cleaning the drains are just outright lies.

The mayors answer to flooding, let it run out to sea and pollute the water even more. Perhaps he doesn't want to spend any money on a proper solution, as we all know where it is really going!

Most outrageous of all though, the sidewalk from Bali Hai to the lighthouse. This facility cost Pattaya a great deal of money, and could have been a real asset. Unfortunately, it has been unrepaired for many years ( not just by the present incompetent- sorry incumbent ), and is pretty unattractive at present. Not likely to change as long as the speedboat mafia are allowed to park their boats wherever they wish. Not many tourists will wish to clamber past the illegally parked boats all over the pavement.

So the mayor is looking forward to a lot of high spending tourists to fleece! Well not if the word has got out about what a tip Pattaya has become. High class tourist resort, NOT.

Just building a few expensive malls and hotels does not make a place somewhere rich tourists want to visit. Well let them build; who cares if they go bankrupt? Not I, that's for sure.

Oh well, at least it keeps Pattaya safe for the mongers for a few more years!

Last year I posted that Loi Khratong was the quietest I had ever seen.

This year it was even more dead

Drove into town at about 20:00 and virtually no traffic!

What part of town were you in? Certainly wasn't Beach Rd. That was pretty solid traffic till midnight, when I went to bed. Walking St. was booming, the beach was full of people. Certainly wasn't "dead".

I had a couple done at "??????? ( Forget name ) Smile" opposite Bangkok Bank on Second Rd, near Soi 6. They got a specialist to come to do the procedure. No complaints.

There is also a specialist in Naklua, just up from Dolphin Roundabout, on the right hand side, before the first lot of Bar Beers. He seems competent.

However, as one with more root canals than not, doesn't sound like a root canal problem. The indication is sensitivity to temperature, or continuous pain in the event of inflammation, not pressure. I could be wrong though.

I wouldn't go to the Bangkok Hospital on Sukhumvit, near North Rd. though. They were rubbish when I went there.