IsaanAussie

I dry cure bacon from my own pigs (Durocs) using no chemicals to effect the texture or colour. The dry cure process involves coating the meat and storing in the refrigerator at 4C in a plastic bag for the curing period. The bags and turned each day. My cure uses molasses, fresh ground black pepper, brown sugar and sea salt. No nitrates or nitrates. We use Loin and Belly Pork to make most of our bacon.

Regardless of being dry or wet cured in brine many "factory" made bacons exude white scum in the pan and reduce in size. It is because the meat has been pumped full of cure or brine to accelerate the process (10 hour bacon as a friend dubbed it)

Does it taste the same as English pub breakfast bacon? No, but that is only a matter of taste. If you want to taste some of our farm made bacon send me a PM. We send vacuum packs packed in ice filled styrene boxes to order by bus. We also send lean ground pork, and other cuts to those who want to make their own sausages, BBQ ribs, roast pork etc...

The salt and sugar are all that is needed for curing, saltpetre is added to stabilise the colour while cooking.

While there are people prepared to sell pigs at the low prices there will be no increases. Even CP prices have dropped. Obviously it is those with market pigs raised post August last year that now have the issue of sell or continue feeding. Remember prices were at 80 baht back then. I think things will normal over the next month or so, but right now the CP prices are still going down.

Time for some tough decisions guys.

Hi guys, back online,

These are the latest regional prices I got (23 Jan)

Price:

http://www.swinethailand.or.th/index.php

Ratchaburi 51.00 (-6)

Nakhon Pathom 54.00 (-3)

Chachoengsao 54.00 (-3)

Chonburi 54.00 (-3)

Northeast 52.50 (-4.5)

Mai 61.00 (-3)

Sriracha 54.00 (-3)

Surat Thani 56.00 (-2)

Songkhla 56.00 (-2)

piglets 1,700.00 +-56.00

Scully,

Sorry to hear of your problem. Not that I can draw any direct comparisons to your situation but I do have a lazy set of relatives here and could imagine the condition of my sty operation without me here would be much the same as you encountered upon return. Unfortunately it is all too common here especially in labour intensive, repeditive situations. When the cat is away as they say. You are the only one who can decide which way to go if the situation is not reconcillable and I wish you well. Personally, I would be concentrating on the relationship with your wife first. Many of my plans have been delayed or stymied by those around us and luckily my wife and I have managed to maintain our relationship. That doesnt mean I don't get angry or sit under a tree and say Mai Pen Rai in true Thai style. Put whatever means most to you as your priority.

IA

Hi Bergen,

Yes, wire is reconnected and I'm back online. If you have an ensuite room for the wife and I please mark us down as coming. I'll bring more bacon this time for anyone who wants some. If anyone is looking for pork loin chops let me know by PM.

Looking forward to meeting the new attendees and catching up with everyone.

IA

Hi guys,

Still off the air, no new wire yet. So finally got a seat at the local cafe. Sorry to hear about the problems with PRRS a few of you are having. Prices are comng back and 60 plus is about what I expected and 70 odd what I had hoped for. Muck or money guys as always.

IA

Three crops per year on the same parcel?!?!? Even two crops per year is dicey. Soil need to be replenished, rejuvenated. Thais know nothing about composting and very little about mulching. Each year, many rice farmers burn most parts of the rice plant left over after harvesting. . Just as important, there are a slew of crops that are as well, or better suited to Thailand's climate/soil conditions. I've listed them before, so I'll just make a web page, rather than list them all again.

Maidu,

Bring these opinions over to the Farming Forum. It will cause a long discussion. I compost manures and I grow rice but the two do not necessary work together. The issue is the health of the soil but inundation with water kills most of the microbes and fills the air pockets that compost creates. IMHO it is not quite that easy. Having lived in the central provinces and seen 3 crops consistently produced I believe it is better planned than you give credit. Rice depletes the soil, obviously. Silica being one of the trace elements that is lost. Burning the stubble does put some of that back. The fertiliser used in the central is carefully applied based on both experience and analysis.

No it is not ideal to plant 3 times a year, and there are alternatives such as the Kings 30-30-30-10 plans for land usage. But if you can ever get rural Thai people to move away from rice as the staple for every meal I will be the first to congratulate you.

On the Ag Minister admission, I add my congratualtions as well, accepting responsible is part of his job which on balance I think he is doing well. I have known of others who have made public admissions of guilt on behalf of others, often falling on a golden sword, but this is Thailand!

Isaan Aussie.

13.3 million livestock dead in Thai floods

[8 November 2011] Thailand's Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives has reported an estimated losses of 13.3 million of livestock in the ongoing floods that have swept through central Thailand. As of end October, a total of 162,180 livestock farmers were affected and 13.3 million livestock were damaged. Of the total, 12.82 million were poultry, 254,706 were cattle and cows, and 189,904 were pigs. Estimated 194,012 fish farms were affected and about 11 million rai of plantation area were damaged. The government has approved an initial budget of THB 3.645 billion (USD 119.27 million) to three key departments including the Department of Agricultural Extension, Livestock Department and Fisheries Department.

Doc,

The BBQ looks great and as we have discussed I have the piglets to go with it. Anyone in Sisaket looking for piglets to salivate over on one of Doc's BBQ's send me a PM. Now is a good time with pig prices at their lowest in three years. We deliver pigs ready to cook locally, and will pack in ice for a bus ride.

Isaan Aussie.

Do they look like you or their mother?

No mate, we are enjoying the arrival of a litter of piglets, not sick puppies...

Shaggy,

If all the witches brews have failed. Citronellia or equivalent, here try boiling up some lemon grass. Get that wife of yours to go buy some Ivomec. Most livestock meds shops sell if for cows but it works for pigs as well, 1ml per 50 kg body weight.

IA

AA1,

Well done me ol' son.

I will be there with knobs on. If you need help with the bacon and burgers just let me know. Bringing a box of beer was the best thing everyone did. I thought that keeping tabs would be a nightmare but it wasn't, we didn't make money out of it but it didnt cost us anything either. I will bring the 200 litre ice box id you want it? Mind you supply the ice!

To everyone else,

Think about what you want out of meeting 2, seriously, how can you contribute, what would be of benefit to you? The intent here is for everyone to gain something. Even our latex expert Jimbo! I have a telephone number that will deliver blinking lights and winking ladies to the hotel if you want. The guy lives in PhuSing and speaks English. Will I book something that goes BOOM at night for you? no! But will supply the number for those that PM me.

To Bergen explicitly,

OK, this time I will make bacon on spec. How many Kilograms do you want? Remember pork prices are down.

From my perspective as the first host.

Last time an idea I and others have had to make new friends became a reality. I had fun and I hope others did too. If you have questions then this forum is a great place to find all sorts of answers. But it up to you as the Thais constantly remind us. To keep me happy do three things, firstly, lets make the second meeting better than the first, secondly, do your homework and ask your questions before hand, and thirdly, it ain't a contest, come along, expand the group and your horizons, come to AA1's place and have a great day.

Isaan Aussie

Hey folks,looks like there is some new faces to the forum. Revar and Brabo a hearty welcome to you both.Brabo may i also offer my congratulations to you also with your first litter of 12.

I do have a question/problem.Have any of you encountered problems from mosquito/insect bites? I have one sow that is being continuously bitten and i can not figure out why. Our other sows are not getting targeted and it really has me puzzled why that sow is being singled out? Any ideas folks.

Shaggy

Shagster,

Pigs are like people. I smoke and drink beer and mosquitoes don't bother me at all. So you got a choice, get some nasty habits for your sow or, get your missus to ask the local vet supplies for a bottle of insect repellent. I buy a small bottle of the very petrochem smelling stuff that you put a capful in a spray bottle full of water and problem gone. Spray the pigs every two days. Bottle costs 30 baht and lasts ages.

Longer term fix for parasites get some injectable ivomectin and dose the sows every three months, internal/external parasities, mange mites the lot. 4 ml per sow 2 weeks before farrowing and your piglets will benefit as well. The real nature of the organic regime is revealed by this 100% synthetic drug, it is recommended. <deleted>?

IA

Revar,

You are in a perfect position to generate what you have in mind. Yes, we do think very much alike, but if 4 years is the date when there must be a profit, then start to look very closely at what others are doing not just me. RedBullHorn is a smart guy. His strategy is to grow pigs out and he has established the contacts that enable him to do that when a profit is almost gauranteed. RBH sold 200 pigs from memory when they were sold at 80 baht per KG. Now you said you got 47 baht. Now he has no pigs. There is a clear difference in strategy between the two of us which you need to look at from your own perspective. RBH has a grow finish operation and I am farrow to finish.

You live in an area that has a lot of small pig farms. I do not and the people have a mindset that pig farms must smell. My advise is to look at the positioning of your farm amid the rest. If you maintain status quo, you will lose. Go above what the neighbours are doing. With 60 or 70 pigs you will not make a difference so look at what you offer as a total package. Will the neighbours help you? No! So why should you be Father "Bloody" Christmas? Generate the profit first, get generous later at their expense not your own.

You are building your new sty now and the pigs move in soon. There is no time to stuff around. If you have the time, come to my place and have a look. It is a four hour drive from your place. If I can offer any advice, do that now!

Isaan Aussie

Brabo,

Well I had hoped I would match you today but this time the sow has disappointed with numbers, only 8 piglets in the litter this morning. But as departed friend Fruity used to say, they are corkers.

As this is your first litter, watch them very carefully for the first week. If you are going to loose some, the first three days are when most will drop. Iron injections at day 3 to day 7, do not forget. Tails docked at the same time. I get a basket and go put all the piglet inside and take them out of the pen to do the deeds, as far from Mum as possible. If you have a set of scales weigh them then. I do not clip the teeth. Castration, if you are going to do it at all, wait until they are 2 or 3 weeks old. Yes, a bit of a fight but the piglet will benefit from being stronger and their immune system is more developed. Boars grow the fastest, barrows eat more and get fatter, gilts in the middle. Boar taint has not happened to me yet, even with a 300 kg boar, it is not a reason to castrate. But, at 4 months intact boars will cause a problem with the gilts that just gets worse. If you leave them whole, separately house them.

Anyway, enjoy the piglets, it will just get better and better. I spend time in the pen with the sow and litter every time so they get to know me. At three weeks old you will not find anything more satisfying than playing with the piglets. The key, say hi to Mum first. The key to Mum, a pig is the one farm yard animal most restricted in its ability to scratch itself.

Welcome to the wonderful world of breeding pigs. Remember if you wean these piglets in 4 weeks, get ready for her next pregnancy first. Wean and remate within 5 days.

IA

Congratulations, keep them warm

Isaanaussie,

I am halfway between Dan Khun Tod and Si Kiu, abou 80km from Khorat.

Most piglets between 4-8 kg are sold for around 900-1300 bath around here. I also see people buying even smaller ones for 500 bath, but they often die. Not sure where they get tese, not from my friends regular supplier.

Thanks for the offer of piglets, I'd like some in the future, but for now my 66 are enough.

Revar

Each to his own Revar, there is no single correct answer. But honestly it sounds to me like these piglets are the "rejects" from a commercial farm. Better to get a few baht for them and get rid of them than grow them out. There are some large farms around Korat and obviously they have developed a steady market for these piglets.

For me, the answer is simple maths. Each one of my sows costs me nearly 20,000baht per year to maintain. If she weans 18 piglets per year then each piglet owes me over 1,000 baht before anything else. Still births, mortalities increase that overhead as does a reasonable amount allowed for labour and depreciation. I am at a small scale so at a disadvantage to volume producers. So I supply piglets that are viable and not going to die. Instead of 7 to 8 kg weaned I sell piglets at 6 weeks old that are 10Kg.

Currently the industry price quoted for a weaned piglet is 1,700 baht +/- 65 baht.

As I said there is single answer. But you can be sure that the people around here don't buy piglets as small as you do, nor do they spend the effort and time that you and your wife do.

Revar,

I read you post again and now the latest one about the mixing of the feeds. I think what is happening here is minimise the change of feed by mixing the two together. Start with the first grade and a little bit of the second and gradually change the proportions until its 100% grade 2. Very small piglets have under developed guts and can scour easily. The milk powder is used mainly for calves that have to be bottle feed. It is about 90 baht for a 1 kg bag. I admire your wifes dedication, she is running an intensive care unit for piglets.

If you want bigger piglets come see me. As I said I dont like to sell them under 10 kg. How much is a 4 or 5 kg piglet is being sold for? By the way where abouts are you?

My power washer will run to 170bar, we use it set at about 130. The pigs are in the pens when we clean. They get used to it and if you are careful there is no problems. The biggest issue is damage to people not the pigs.

If you decide to use a septic tank inline to the pond then the maths are simple. I have six tanks, each 1,500 litres. I want 5 days hydraulic retention time and allow 15 litres waste water per pig per day. That means 20 adult pigs per tank. In your case with 6 pens, I would assume you would need 3 septic tanks of the same size. I have posted a schematic here a few months ago.

I dont filter the water for the pigs.

Slapout,

Well summarised, that is where a lot of money is made. People here are only concerned with getting a handful of cash, the maths is irrelevant. What you dont understand avoid at all costs to save embarrassment..

Now on the other hand things they can see will be agrued about. Yesterday there were two DC60's working the rice here in our village. There were the usual arguments about positions in the queue, which meant a late start for both the machines. But being true Thais, those that may have jumped the queue a bit because they yelled loudest, had not lost any volume when it came to blaming the machine operators for half the rice being still green after it was cut. Imagine the cheek? Why did he cut it when it wasn't ready yet? But it was dark already, how could he see the colour? Why doesnt he have brighter lights on the harvester? No, definitely the machine operators fault.....

Gotta love this people, faultless to a tee...

A year from now, all of these grand plans will be shelved, the country's government will again be too busy money and power grabbing to do anything of substantial good as HM has suggested. It takes very little time for Thai people to 'forgive and forget', even if it is a massive flood. And then 5, 10, 20 years down the line when there is another massive flood, the whole cycle will repeat itself.

Tom,

Well said.

The difference of opinion I have is Thais here in Isaan are like elephants, they never forget. Forgiveness can be purchased, temporarily. Hopefully Bangkokians and those in the central are a little closer to what you say. I suppose any populist government can only try to please all the people some of the time. Unfortunate but true that Thai governments usually end up only having to please such a select few. If history does repeat itself, then well and good, at least we will all know what to expect, TIT.

Go figure, the heads of the world having emergency meeting to save the global economy from melt down and the rubber price climbs 3 Baht a kilo. Jim

I can remember watching a old western movie where the local newspaper editor would comment "If we are ever to have law and order in the wild west, first thing we need to do is take out all the (insert problem makers) and shoot them down like dogs!" Sounds like commodity traders and futures players should be inserted in that statement.

Argh, rubber, a truely elastic commodity Yippee Yai Yo.

Revar,

If you are making money growing out the runts from CP, you have my congratulations. I bought about ten small piglets that were offered cheaply to see for myself and after two months sold them all. What I found was that because there was such a large difference in the starting weights I had to separately pen them. That meant three pens for ten pigs, crazy, too much cleaning.

If they are not runts but very early weaned piglets, then you have done well to have so many survive. I wean my piglets at 28 days normally, sometimes I will give them another week if the sow still has a lot of milk and they are slow in taking to creep feed. At 28 days they are at about 7.5 kg and I like to keep them for another 2 weeks to get them established on solids. I feed them creep feed and powdered milk for the first two weeks and target 10kg weight by then. Now at 6 weeks I change to Betagro 951 then 952, 853,954 and 955. Normally the pigs get to 100kgs at 22 weeks.

Yes we do get the occasional small piglets. Just because they are small doesnt make them runts but you will tell by how fast they grow. Mostly they dont catch up. I will keep them up to 60kg but no longer. Ham pig is a nicer name than runt.

It will be interesting to see what your new batch does. How much feed and how long.

Sorry I cant help with the 300 series feed mixes as I use the pellet series from Betagro, HiGro Starter and occasionally a few pellet feed brands . Unfortunately Fruity is no longer with us, but I know he was using good quality rice bran mixed with pellet feed for his sows.

Wastes and Water. I have written a lot on my septic tanks and composting in different parts of the farming and organics forum. Have a dig around. Basically shovel out the manure, mix it in the compost box. Power wash the pen, the water going into a collection pit to trap solids and then into the septic tank. Treated water is then released into a soak away system. I dont like manure lagoons nor the taste of the fish that can live in them. The only water I pump into our pond is exit water from the septic system which has been treated for 5 to 10 days to lower the COD and BOD levels and has very little suspended solid. Basically dirty water.

I pump ground water into elevated tanks, the water is then gravity fed to things like the power washer as well as drinking water. I would suggest that you have enough tank water for one day of power outage at least. I have 4 x 1000 litre tanks based on 120 pigs drinking water and 15 litres per day per pig washing, or at full accommodation capacity enough water for 2 days.

So if your town water can be fed up to a tank then that is one way to do it. Depends on the cost per megalitre being charged and the cleanliness of the water. I am fortunate that we have a good water supply in sand at about 6 metres, so I pump from that. I have a 2" supply pipe from out water reservior but the pumps have never been turned on, the charge is supposed to be 7 baht/ML and there is no filteration from the reservior which is heavily polluted with fertiliser and runoff. Not in a big hurry to connect.

Power. If you have an existing house supply then you should be able to get another meter fitted to use for the pigsty without a new house book. I did exactly that. We get two bills. The rate for the pigsty is higher but the consumption is low. To connect you will need to run cabling and install the posts. When I looked into that a proper pole was about 1,500 baht each so you may need 4 or 5, plus the cabling and fittings. I would go talk to PEA.

I can just imagine the media release now. "Come paddle around Ayutthaya in a boat made from drinking bottles. Their see-through nature allows you to see all the dead animals and rubbish under your boat as well as the Richard the Thirds floating all around you. Paddle right up to the stairs to you room, where you will find a full compliment of medications for dysentry and other things you may catch, the pills are included in the package deal. The sensory opportunity of a lifetime, sounds, sights and smells...

Hi Revar, welcome to Pigs 101.

If you made a profit you have done well. I am interested in your operation and would like to know why you buy the piglets at 3 to 8 Kg? 7 to 8 kg OK that sounds like 28 day weaned but 3Kg? Still if they are on solids and doubled their weight in two weeks, then I can learn a thing off you. Can you tell us more about your first group of pigs, how long did it take to raise them, what you fed them, anything you wish to share.

My pens are 3x5 metres giving 15 square metres or 1.5 per pig with 10 100kg pigs per pen. Your new pens are 16 sq metres so with 67 piglets that is about the same area allowed with your six new pens. What are you doing with the wastes?

I looked into solar power, it is available here but when you add battery storage etc.. I doubt it is competitive against standard electricity supply. I also looked at biodigesting the wastes to produce methane to power a genset but decided that was a bit too risky given the amount of care taken by Thais. Honestly, if you have power available, use the PEA supply.

I use a power washer to clean every day and believe it is the way to go. I paid a lot for a good quality Italian unit which has served well, but the cheap ones from Big C do as good a job. The best thing is how little water they use. I have a 1" piston pump supplying water to the sty which means to hose out the pens I use about 80 litres a minute of low pressure water which doesnt clean completely. The pressure washer uses 8 litres a minute for a better result. you can also siphon EM into the wash water to help control smell.

Again welcome to the forum.

Isaan Aussie

I admire your planning skills RBH, but some things are beyond the crystal ball.

Tuesday, October 25, 2011

Floods Claim More Than 300,000 Pigs

THAILAND - Following the loss of at least 300,000 pigs in the floods, producers are asking the government to extend the current import tariff waiver on feed ingredients, a move introduced to control food costs.

The Swine Raisers Association of Thailand is asking for the import-tariff waiver on animal feed ingredients to be extended for another two years after the floodwaters recede, reports Bangkok Post.

President Surachai Sutthitham said 300,000 swine had been killed in the disastrous floods, and the figure was rising.

The crisis has severely affected large and small farmers alike but the latter are looking at more damage because they have been unable to move their animals in time to save them.

Large farms are better able to take preventive measures but their costs are still rising from transport problems and investment in water prevention systems.

One of the government's populist measures has been a temporary waiver of the two per cent import tariff on soybeans, which are a major ingredient in feed production, in order to help the livestock industry keep costs under control. The Internal Trade Department's suggested pork price is being maintained at 125-135 baht (THB) a kilogramme, depending on location.

The farm-gate price of live swine is THB52 to 58 a kilogramme, down by THB4 to THB5 from two months ago.

Mr Surachai said the price of live swine is actually less than what the government suggests, as raisers are finding they must sell their animals before full maturity to make any profit.

There are no plans for a price increase anytime soon.

Bangkok Post reports that the association predicts the number of pig breeders will decline as many of those in affected areas quit the industry in frustration.