IsaanAussie

I For years I owned a large worm farm in Kanchanaburi but sadly had to close it down due to lack of funding. 6 weeks after I was on National radio and since must of recieved 500 calls easily requesting worms, compost, info etc. I still breed a few worms at the rear of the house and would like to start again on a commercial scale, if any one is interested please get in touch.

I hope you get someone interested. Out of personal interest can I ask what went wrong? I have a small worm farm which I am planning on expanding and to me the issue is getting a market as it is in most farming enterprises. In my case worms are very much an add-on but have proved to be a valueable one. In fact I would like to be able to use more myself but struggle to stay ahead of demand.

Aggie,

OK if your are serious I would like to talk to you. I have the land, pigs and sty, worm farm, bio char, and compost. We grow rice. You sound like you have a lot of the stuff I need to complete the circle. PM me if you are interested.

IA

We started talking about snakes, now pitbulls. What zoo escapees? Crocodiles and now a deadly swan!!!!

Soidog2, I suppose if you are actually asking me to respond than all I can say is.

I farm pigs, others cows and buffalos, chickens and even vegetables. We all have reasons, as our animals all have different thicknesses of hide. I suppose we all react differently to real and perceived threats and taunts. "Sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me." I've had a comment or two pointed at me in the past which erked me, but now I take the approach, I've been insulted before by experts, why should this one bother me? As expats we face a more complex life than the locals and the local environment puts different stresses on each of us. Such is life!

Maybe go back to the topic and "Buy a Lucky Number."

Snakes, sharks and probably crocodiles scare me SH1T-less and I think that most of us on this topic are in the same boat. Having had personal discussions with all the players here in one form or another, I think there is a lot of similiarities, but no need to harrass each other. There is something that winds each of our clocks. Different for each of us but there never the less. So when two guys living in the firing range of the border spur each other on to continue, it is different to someone who has many other interests but is one of the best gardeners this forum has, probably the best if he could do it fulltime. Relax guys, everyones clocks are ticking just fine and there aren't any trolls here just a few oldtime sparring partners.

Despite all us heros killing snakes, check this out. Yesterday the wife and I had finished tucking in the piglets for the night and were walking home past the spirit houses at the sty when this bloody great snake slide straight over my foot and down a hole near the dead peoples shrine. Startled the Be-Jesus out of me and I was half a stride from grabbing a rake in case it came back out when the wife said, "Snake go see Di Yai, luckily you he touch you first." No discretion or valour then, just time for a beer.

Today the spirit house gets fire bombed!

I believe the Chinese word/s for crisis translates to a dangerous opportunity. Maybe the best thing that could happen is some entrepeneur will start up a business based on this dangerous opportunity.

Demographics would indicate every chance of success

Yes, that does seem to address the USCWAP problem. Those USCS paddles are big enough that purchasing a boat (apparently, sold separately, batteries not included) would be optional (image - Could be used by Red Shirts to facilitate a water-bound siege of Bangkok - or anywhere else).

Actually I thought they looked about right for the barges usually seen of the river about this time of year, but those boats wont be on the water any time soon. So out of work paddles. Actually the later articles are getting worrying. Is there any clues as to what the peaks in Bangkok will be?

The issue is the disaster guys. Can we agree on that? The reason I suggested the army is they are trained to react quickly and have the ability to dedicate resources to co-ordinate other specialist resources available to my mind better than anyone else, especially those that have a country to run. G'kids response was from a position of fact, hardly one eyed. The cause of this is that it rained, and it rained and it rained.

QED for me.

This article shows the situation here for what it is. Thaksins involvement, if any, to me is a side issue. The government at all levels here is based on Thai culture and the need for consensus and it slows reactions. Works for normal government functions but in an emergency there are just too many people involved for anyone to control or co-ordinate. I humbly suggest that the army should have a permanent charter to react in these circumstances. All the departments of all the ministries, provincial and local government departments with overlapping responsibilities are full of competent people I'm sure but there is no mechanism of delegation or co-ordination that can react quickly. I dont see this situation as anyones fault, it is the system itself that needs to be streamlined.

This government is completely useless... they turned this drama into a serious crisis through Very bad management.... not one minister is worthy of his or her job.... the poor Thai peoples are stuck with this and truth be told..... just as they deserve... you reap what you sow...!!!! Question:... How many Red Vilages were washed away.... Answer:... Not Enough...!

Sorry but there are 280 people dead and many thousands if not millions directly affected. None of them deserved this. I live in a Red Village as a matter of fact with most of the people here very local to Thaksin as his actions during his tenure improved their lives immensely. That isn't relevant either. The point being made is there is a fault in the system that needs to be fixed for times of crisis. The fact that this has happened during the first months of a new government just makes it worse. Regardless of political beliefs this should be seen as a chance to establish rapid responses for future ocassions. The knive throwers should wait until the waters have subsided now they should be helping carrying sandbags.

G'Kid,

Thanks for the clarification.

This article shows the situation here for what it is. Thaksins involvement, if any, to me is a side issue. The government at all levels here is based on Thai culture and the need for consensus and it slows reactions. Works for normal government functions but in an emergency there are just too many people involved for anyone to control or co-ordinate. I humbly suggest that the army should have a permanent charter to react in these circumstances. All the departments of all the ministries, provincial and local government departments with overlapping responsibilities are full of competent people I'm sure but there is no mechanism of delegation or co-ordination that can react quickly. I dont see this situation as anyones fault, it is the system itself that needs to be streamlined.

I believe the Chinese word/s for crisis translates to a dangerous opportunity. Maybe the best thing that could happen is some entrepeneur will start up a business based on this dangerous opportunity.

Demographics would indicate every chance of success

No problems Khun Cake. Rock up whenever

Hello All,, is there a problem with Thai fishmeal?

rice555

this is from Wiki

Main fishmeal producing countries

• • Peru (Anchovy)

• • Chile (Anchovy and Horse mackerel).

• • China (Various species).

• • Thailand (Various species).

• • U.S.A. (Menhaden, Pollock).

• • European Union, others (Various species).

• • Iceland and Norway (Capelin, Herrings, Bluewhiting).

• • Denmark (Pout, Sandeel, Sprat).

• • Japan(Sardine/Pilchard).

• • South Africa (Pilchard).

No problem but it is different, the fish species used, oil content and extraction processes used are different to other places. This yields a difference in the product and in its protein level and digestability. Menhaden meal is taken as the ideal for feed products, currently about 26,000 baht/ton

I would like to suggest to anyone who is into pig farming here that you have a look at the livestock statistics published for your province. I am forward planning my herd and to be honest I was startled by what I found. Whilst Sisaket province matches the national average of 1.6 boars per breeding farm there are more boars than sows in my Amphoe and a maximum of 24 sows held by any one breeder. What that means, without going into the details of the number of people growing out piglets, I have a potential market within a 20 km radius or less of over 5,000 piglets a year. Little wonder I cleared everything so easily last time.

Overall in the province everything is in balance and there is the capacity to maintain the numbers, but the distribution of that capacity is a different story. We have all read that from a national perspective, the Dept of Ag and Co-Ops has the task of maintaining these balances, and that interprovincial trading is monitored and "sometimes" controlled. But within the province it's more a matter of each Amphoe for itself.

If you want to breed pigs or for that matter just grow them, check your locations numbers out. You can determine your market for live pigs and get an idea of the competition's potential among the growers around your local market.

In my case some jealousy related complaints have caused problems at Tambon level where there are only small growing farms and little interest. But when those issues were brought to Amphoe level, they were met with deaf ears. Now I figure I have an idea why I got supported, I can help improve the supply from within the Amphoe rather than having all those piglets being bought from "outside". Could be wrong of course....but this is Thailand.

Try a skytrain ride to Morchit and a walk around Chatuchuk market through the week.

Great bit of info there Organics is and always will be a goal of mine where I can but I do bend the rules a little same as most people

I think I can get a few black soldier flies for you I am back to work on monday ill talk to one of our vets and let you know monday night. At this time of year I can dig about 2kg of worms in about an hour and thats all i need right now but Ive just hatched another 50 ducks so that might change in the next few weeks

Mixing feed would be great if it saved money i just need many mixs for all the protien levels I need, I am in the land that time forgot

Sorry mate what is the FAO WEB-SITE ?

Andy,

The rules? What rules? The need for certification and all the checks and balances are enough to make me say the current public perception on organics is made up of the primary component of my manure based compost. Mate, you are just doing what makes honest common sense. Let the uninvolved, do gooders go check and turdify themselves. It amazes me that in the effort to become sustainable, environmentally responsible and reduce external expenditure, the first market requirement for an organics farmer is to spend money proving he is an honest man. <deleted> is that all about?

Talking about sh1t munchers, if you can get hold of the flies it would be great. The Thai earthworms are enormous and should make excellent protein meal. Sun dry and grind? I wonder about feeding them live to day old chicks though, maybe sometimes those "rattlesnakes" may win! Chick gone in a glup.

You face the same issues as me. I use seven different feeds across my pig herd. The real hurdle is mixing has to start by combining the smallest quantities first, basically the mineral, vitaman and protein cmponents that make the different grades, different. So a seperate effort for each one. Once they are mixed the clock starts on how long it stays viable. The bottomline for me is the amount of work involved in mixing small quantities of feed regularly. I dont consider myself too lazy but I have enough "make myself some more work" stuff happening to chase a few baht per kg. If you ever find the answer let me know.

The FAO is part of the UN, Food and Agriculture Organisation. www.FAO.org Currently their website must be being updated as the linkage seems a bit screwed up. But they have a vast library of documents on farming in SEA and around the world. Good source of information and ideas.

You are near Roi Et somewhere aren't you? Not so far away from me. Like your posts, good luck.

IA

IA

The good old days when there was a hub for everything... How very well put! Of course we can remember that every hub has a focal point, and with a common spindle, they all spin in unison, so simple, so well balanced, perfection. Such a pity that the common centre in those days was exactly what they asked for and they all got shafted.

Recently there was a sharp correction in pig prices nationally. It was more than I expected and prompted me to take another look at my planning. It also has spurred a few questions from guys who have been thinking about setting up something for the wife or GF.

So to try to explain the pitfalls have a look at the chart attached. It shows the US pig prices over the last 5 years. Sorry I have some doubts on the information I have on the Thai market so I choose not to use it as an example. There are clear parallels which are the point I make.

USA seasonal Prices 5 years.pdf

Firstly looking at the shaded area of prices you will note a seasonal decline in the autumn each year which bottoms out in December. Other factors effect the maximum and minimum levels but the basic industry shows consistent trends. The same happens here as RedBullHorn pointed out. As the Thai Industry matures under corporate farming domination, the yearly highs end just prior to the Bhuddist Lent and decline quickly as overstock is cleared. Prices build again as New Year and Chinese New Year approach building to the pre Lent peak.

So given that, if you are going to invest in some pigs for the lady's family to raise, when should you do it? Take another look at the graph at the column bars. Here the gain in pig prices during the period from purchase of piglets at 4 to 6 weeks old until they are grown out and sold at 100 kgs. Basically in the US, you buy piglets at the lowest price point not at the top of the market.

Now is too late for the New Year peak to start piglets, but not too late if you buy advanced growers. If you can buy pigs that where farrowed in July, at todays prices, then you will do alright. Find someone with young pigs, a hole and his pocket and terror in the eyes.

Isaan Aussie

Andy,

I have a feed supplier in Sisaket who specialises in the ingredients for feed, selling some commercial grade pellet feeds. In the case of pigs he advised mixing feeds for animals over 50 kgs, which to me sounded smart. Anyway, they are around and sell in quantities to suit. In Sisaket the average household pig farmer only has 4 or 5 pigs, so the quantities are usually small. I believe he would sell at lower rates based on sacks rather than small plastic bags for the more expensive components.

I have for some time being trying to get my hands on black soldier flies to use as biodigesters of manure which would than be used as worm feed, and the fly larvae dried as a protein source. To date I havent been able to catch, buy, beg, borrow or even steal any flies. Worms are another source of high protein which can be feed live or dried, but slower to reproduce and expensive to buy.

There has been a lot of work done on using chicken manure as a mineral source in farm mixed feeds. Heaps of info on the FAO website about this stuff in this region.

Every time I do the numbers, the small savings over commercial feeds just dont appear to just justify the risk of spoilage of bulk purchases of ingedients, their storage and mixing to specification. Your birds are probably more tolerant than the human like digestive system of pigs. But like you, I believe there has to be an answer somewhere especially if the organic market is your goal.

<br />Hi FEF<br />Interested in "Supergreen, EM and "Beyond Organic" micro nutrient spray we formulated"<br />I have tested just supergreen on cassava and it works well so wondered what else you add to it.<br />ie what is EM and "beyond organaic" <br />I have been trying to think of ways of adding some NPK to the supergreen so as to kill 2 birds with one stone when spraying. Hoping your EM and beyond organic are the answer.<br />Steve<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Hey Somo internet and this site are acting peculiar but will try to9 answer. BO and EM are not your answer for NPK but are micronutrients in BO and microorganisms in the EM. Y9ou will see info on EM in the pinned subjects above and hopefully at the end of this will be some info for you on the BO. Krauti had said he didn't get much results with cassava in field tests so hopefully you are proving him wrong but I was very satisfied with the results I got though it wasn't a very good test this year do to a multitude of factors. Hopefully next year will be much more scientific but Ifeel it was rather helpful to get the rice thru drought stress. Choke Dee. Sorry no luck downloaDING info but can send to you if you wish or will try again later at another internet cafe. Fumbling on Fords Forever

A wise man once said, if you can get the sh1t in the right spot and it still won't help th crop.

You got take it out of the bags!

IA this couldnt come at a worse time as the pigs i got of you are about ready to sell!! so will we also see a drop in the price of food for them or will the mills keep the prices up?Also would you willing to share any prices that you are paying for your rations. We had got prices for rations from Krung Thai but they are a bit more expensive than Betagro Balance

One thing is for sure Sam, pigs definitely leave their calling card, SH1T!

I have held the believe that a significant drop in price was overdue for some time, but I figured it would be down to between low to mid 70 range. I didnt see a correction as large as this coming, still it has and to be honest, I think the price is about where it should be. The next 100 kg pigs I will have ready will be around New Year and I may have to hold them a bit longer to see higher prices. You were apparently a couple of months too late to see the peak. There should still be a profit at 67 baht though so I would do one of two things. Hold the gilts until their second or third season then breed them, or sell at 100 kgs.

On the feed costs, I posted on Pigs 101 in September and they are still at the same price. I cannot see any reduction coming in feed prices. Forward guesswork for me is a rise of 20 baht per bag each six months. That's a bit more than average from my experience with Balance. Below is the impact on my feed bill for the next two years.

Herd Plan 11-11-2011Feed Increases.pdf

The impact averages about 185 baht per pig. So at 2,000 per piglet, 3,500 feed cost and an extra say 200 on that, you should have a cost of production average of around 5,700. If the current 67 baht per kg holds, then 1,000 baht gross per beast. That a 15% gain in less than six months or over 30% per annum. Better than bank interest!

IA

Not really Bob, take a guess it has something to do with another parentless Englishman?

Bob, yes I get it. But I am no expert on fish. I was under the impression that the manure feeds the micro-organisms and pond life, which is in turn eaten by the fish. Too much manure and the pond life stops and all you can grow in the pond is catfish and algae. So I see your point and agree with everything Ozzydom said about manuring ponds. Personally I pump effluent water from the septic system on the pigsite, but not solids. QED

I hope someone can confirm this information, hopefully as wrong:

The average price source information.

Ratchaburi 67.00 (-3)

Nakhon Pathom 67.00 (-3)

Chachoengsao 67.00 (-3)

Chonburi 67.00 (-3)

Northeast 65.00 (-5)

Chiang Mai 68.00 (-4)

Sriracha 67.00 (-3)

Surat Thani 75.00 (0)

Songkhla 75.00 (0)

Piglet 2,000.00 +-66.00

Ok Guys,

Who has been affected by the announced price reduction for pigs and pork? Supposed 79 baht per kg live and 145/kg pork around here.

Isaan Aussie