JimGant

Never dipping below 100k in a bank account used for health self-insuring -- might be interesting to 100% prove. Probably asking only for end-of-year statements would be the solution.

But if you don't qualify, rationalizing that other visa options are better -- should make you feel better about your lack of assets.

Just have good records of all your financial balances on 31 Dec 2023. This is the amount of non assessable income you can bring into Thailand going forward, to be joined with any subsequent non assessable income, like govt pensions exempted by DTA. The fungibility of money is your friend.

Just like govt pensions, VA disability payments are exclusively taxable by the US. Meaning, even tho' the US chooses not to tax such payments, Thailand doesn't have secondary taxation rights on such payments. Thus, not assessable income for Thai tax purposes, per the DTA.

Yes, but Thai tax receipts would be net (via credit) of any tax paid to the country where the property is located. The following from the US technical explanation; but it's pretty much standard language in all the treaties that follow the OECD Model: So, Thailand has secondary taxation rights. Just how you'd treat this on a Thai tax return is an interesting question, since there currently are no lines for tax credits... Of course if your situs country doesn't tax you, Thailand gets to keep the whole enchilada, since there are no tax credits to net out. That's why having secondary taxation rights might pay off in some situations.

You'll always pay tax to the US, or at least have to file a tax return -- because of the so-called "saving clause" in the DTA, which allows the US to tax all your worldwide income irrespective of what the DTA says. This is not as onerous as it sounds, because the DTA does prevent double taxation. But it does mean, if Thailand can't tax it because of the DTA, or won't tax it, because it is not remitted -- then the US taxes it -- and keeps the whole kit and caboodle, since there's no Thai offsetting tax credit. Conversely, if per DTA, Thailand has exclusive, or at least primary taxation rights -- and they implement their taxation authority -- then they keep the whole kit and caboodle -- and your US taxes are reduced by the Thai tax credit on that remitted income. Thus, for Yanks, your total tax bill between both countries probably won't change a bit -- unless Thai effective tax rates on subject income exceed that of the US. In that case, you pay full fare to the US Treasury, and pay Thailand whatever net taxes remain after subtracting out the US tax credit. I can't see that happening to me, because even if I cashed out a huge chunk of my IRA, all that money was pre-2024 income -- and thus not assessable for Thai tax purposes. All my other income is govt pensions, and thus exempt. But, I've got an LTR visa, so I'm protected from this goat rope. However, my wife isn't -- so need to keep an eye open on her situation, when I kick.

Sub-para b in the actual treaty is short on explanation, as are most of the Articles in the treaty. That's why they wrote the "technical explanation," to better explain matters, like taxation of dual nationals, which they explain quite clearly -- and clearly refute your understanding of the situation. In case you're not familiar with this technical explanation, here's the link: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/thaitech.pdf With many Yanks married to dual citizens, it's important that their wives clearly understand that the US has exclusive taxation rights on both survivor Social Security payments and survivor gov't pension payments going to these widows. One more briefing item on your death instructions.

Only if they were not dual citizens. Yes, if my wife weren't a dual citizen, her survivor pension off my Air Force pension would be primarily taxed in Thailand. But her US citizenship retains primary taxation rights by the US of her survivor pension. "Should you be reading the convention differently I suggest that you do a close reading of the relevant sections I posted earlier in this thread." Is that close enough?

Is she a dual US/Thai citizen? Then, taking a little liberty with the Thai/US technical explanation, which explains that a private pension paid to a US survivor is treated the same as if paid to the primary: Nothing similar in the govt pension section -- but believe this to be an obvious oversight. Thus, my survivor Air Force pension to my dual citizen wife should be treated the same as for me, i.e., taxable only by the US. Anyway, that's the guidance I've given her. Unlikely that would ever be an item the RD would discuss with her. On a related note -- the wife has two pension checks paid by the US Govt, namely, the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC). These are for the 35 years she flew with PanAm and United, both of whom declared bankruptcy and dumped their pensions on the PBGC. It would be easy for her to wave these pensions checks as "US Govt paid pensions." Well, yeah -- but the fine print in the DTA says, "Pensions paid for service with the govt." So, guidance here is: These pensions are subject to Thai taxation.

Yeah, after subtracting out the 350k baht exemption, then the 150k freebie up front -- and there is no taxable income left -- why file a tax return? Sure, there's some nonsense about having over 120k baht in assessable income, you need to file a return. Forget it. No fine or foul, as no tax owed. I will assume the accountant's "taxable threshold" meant assessable income minus allowances -- and not the arbitrary, and ridiculous, 120k marker.

No. You don't file a tax return that includes non assessable income. This might be income excluded via a DTA, like US govt pensions. Or income excluded by a Royal Decree, like that under a LTR visa. Thai tax returns have no lines on which to put income not subject to taxation. And, as Mike said: "And currently there is no facility to declare exempt income." And, if you figure the cost/reward for ever requesting such information -- doubtful it will ever occur.

Nope. Only assessable income remitted may have to be declared -- and only then if you're required to file a tax return. And, yes, my US Social Security is exempt from Thai taxation, per DTA. And, of course, there would be no tax credit for Social Security, since the Thais aren't taxing it.

Just a reminder, in the unlikely event you're not aware -- Tricare, and other similar gov't health policies, *are* acceptable for an LTR visa. I had to get one of those throwaway polices from LMG for my OA visa, as Tricare wasn't, of course, one of the 12 acceptable Thai health policies. Thus, one more nice feature of an LTR visa.

How much to home country for income generated there?

Ah, no tax credit with your home country? How much would you have paid on this same income to your home country? Nothing? Well, congrats. However, welcome to the interconnected world, where you now pay taxes to someone, for services of some kind rendered. This is why the OECD is re-writing its model tax treaties, no longer just to prevent double taxation -- but to prevent "no double no taxation." (Google it) Hey, tax havens are disappearing is this interconnected world. But as a citizen of a country (US) where I still have to pay taxes (but no double taxation with Thailand, per DTA), I have no sorrow for those tax skates. And a lot of other countries still tax home country incomes. That Thailand, at the beginning of this fire drill on what's what on taxes said: "Show a home country tax return, and then don't worry about filing a tax return with Thailand," maybe that is what it will take. Sadly, no further word on this -- but it sure would put many worries to rest. And I bet we see this as the final word, for matters of simplicity. But, if you currently pay no country any taxes (and have no tax form to wave at RD) -- and may now pay taxes to Thailand: Welcome aboard. Hopefully, a pot hole will be fixed with your money -- and save a tax complaining farang from a Harley headache.

No, just leave. With your sense of disproportion, I can understand why Thais speak badly about you behind your back. Cheers.

Actually, many of us take out loans to preserve our liquid cash position. Bill was especially astute, since this was a case of bringing a loan into Thailand -- or bringing assessable (taxable) income into Thailand. In the former, there's no tax liability up front -- and realistically, no tax liability years down the road when the loan is paid back, by either assessable (but not remitted) or by non assessable income. Thus, a loan bypasses a taxable event. So, once again I say -- FDI, or "foreign investment", if you desire -- is free from Thai taxes. And this is how they want it, as FDI is a powerful economic stimulus. And the poor cousin of FDI, i.e., credit card purchases, is also not going to be taxed. At least not under any realistic scenario. That the Brits -- and apparently they're the only ones -- have a taxation situation with remittances and credit card purchases -- is a curious situation. That certainly doesn't mean Thailand is emulating this scenario, as they've the whole rest of the OECD community to emulate. But, if you're worried your visa will be cancelled, if you don't report your credit card purchases as assessable income -- well, go for it.

I was admonished not to debate on this thread; but going back to page one, here's what the OP says: So, here goes. It would be impractical/ludicrous for RD to consider money remitted to Thailand as income, if it was obtained as a loan. How it was paid off in the future couldn't be known for current taxation purposes; so it wouldn't be known if that payment met assessable income criteria, or not; plus, this money would never be remitted, so, again, super not assessable. AND to say, this payback money of the loan is actually a marker for the loan remittance to Thailand -- is a bit too much. Nope. Credit card payments are nowhere in the first world considered taxable income. And logic dictates they wouldn't either be in Thailand. But, hey, if you're really a super straight shooter -- declare your credit card payments on your Thai tax return (you'll need to invent a line item). But, to be pure, make sure you subtract from those credit card payments any payments to your credit card bank that were non assessable type income, either from pre 2024 accounts, or from govt pensions, etc. Thai RD will really be impressed. And you'll be ready for the funny farm. Oh, yeah -- per the starting quote. Alan's remittance to Thailand is, first and foremost, not attached to its purpose to buy a condo, in RD's eyes. Thus, it's treated as assessable income, if it fits the DTA criteria, and is post Dec 2023 income. Purpose of remitted income is irrelevant. Bill's loan, remitted to Thailand, is, by definition, a loan and not income. That it buys a condo is incidental. And that, in later years, it is paid back by assessable income, a gift from Granny, or never paid back due to bankruptcy -- is a bridge-too-far for Thai RD to possibly consider. Anyway, logic would dictate that credit card charges will not be considered as assessable income. But, hey, if you're worried you'll be suspected of income tax evasion, by all means declare your credit card payments on your Thai tax return. NOT!

Sure it's borrowed money. Paid off with a separate stream of money never remitted to Thailand. I like the condo example better, because it would seem ludicrous to treat borrowed money to buy a condo as assessable income, because eventually it will be paid back with monies that, should they be remitted to Thailand, which they won't, would then be treated as assessable income. I believe we're on what's called a 'circle jerk.'

Ok, call it "foreign investment." Same argument. Borrowed money, of any flavor, ain't gonna be taxed by Thailand. Just ask the condo developers association.

This is akin to Foreign Direct Investment, critical to the health of the Thai economy. Say I borrow $300k from my US bank, and send the money to Thailand to buy a condo. This is FDI, and the Thais certainly aren't going to shoot themselves in the foot by treating it as taxable income. On a smaller scale, I borrow money from my US bank -- via my credit card -- to buy a new cell phone. FDI, on a smaller scale. Same as if I took a cash advance off of my credit card. So, no, I don't think the Thais will treat borrowed money as assessable income. Debit cards, of course, are a different animal. No borrowing here -- just a direct dip into your financial account. But if this account was established and largely funded pre 2024 -- or funded with DTA exempt monies -- no assessable income here.

Thai tax form is only for assessable income. Your UK govt pension is not assessable, per DTA, thus need not be included on a Thai tax form. If this is your only income, no Thai tax form need be filed, i.e., there is no place, nor need, on a Thai form to show income that is not assessable. They don't care to see any income they can't milk taxes from.

Relax. Thailand won't know, or have the resources to uncover, the exact nature of your cash flow into Thailand -- not that you're pulling a fast one. Presumably your IRA is all pre 2024 contributions and reinvested income, thus no assessable income subject to Thai taxation. In the less than 1% chance that you'll get audited, your IRA paperwork will sufffice. And, even if your IRA were taxable by Thailand, you'd get a one for one tax credit against your US tax return's taxes on your IRA. Thus, no added tax hit for Yanks. But, as regards IRA remittances to Thailand, which you can show as pre 2024, no Thai tax return need be filed. Relax. Again, they don't have the resources nor any real need to dig that deep. And if they did, certainly you've got a Wise or other data trail showing this transfer activity. And if that savings account was fully funded pre 2024, you can, on your own accord, opt for FIFO as to how those fungible assets are transferred out, meaning post Dec 2023 deposits and reinvested interest would be last to go, thus probably not even on the radar screen as remitted transfers.

No, the distributions are treated by the US as TAXABLE income at time of distribution; but it was earned years ago, and banked in an IRA account as tax deferred income. So, per Thai guidance: "Offshore-sourced income received before 1 January 2024 can be brought into Thailand in 2024 or later without being subject to Thai personal income tax." The tricky word here might be "received." But I would certainly argue that "received" is equivalent to "earned" -- and not that it wasn't really earned until taxes are paid. This could prove an interesting semantics discussion with a Thai RD person. But that it would ever get to that point, is highly doubtful. Your self assessment on this point, about when the IRA proceeds were earned, should have no head scratching. Yes, if they hadn't interjected the "pre 2024 income" guidance, then your IRA distro to Thailand *would* then be assessable income, per DTA, as it would have been income distributed post Jan 2024 -- and the exclusive taxation right of Thailand, per DTA (with the US saving clause trumping the Thai "exclusivity" clause, so you'll be paying at least someone). Anyway, take your IRA RMD, pay Uncle Sam taxes as if it were ordinary income, and don't worry about Thailand.

Good point. Unlike the US-Thai treaty, the UK-Thai treaty is short on declaring what income is exclusive to Thailand (e.g., private pensions). Thus, a lot more wiggle room to declare home country taxation rules the day.