JimGant

If you use money in the bank, the 60-day permission to stay will not be enough

I thought if you met all the requirements for an extension -- except for the time the money has been in the bank -- Immigration would issue a Non Imm O visa, and you would then need to come back 60 days later to apply for the extension. By then, of course, your money would have been in the bank the required 60 days.

I had thought (never ever assume <slap!>) that if you did use the visa after you (prematurely) got a re-entry permit, that you'd simply need to get a new re-entry permit to keep the new permission date alive...

As Lopburi points out, you can now forget the slap. But you do bring up an interesting question -- would the re-entry permit be invalidated if you re-enter on a valid visa? I would imagine so, since normally its expiration date is the same as the permitted period it's issued to protect. With a new permitted period, the dates don't line up.....

In any event, if the two dates didn't align (but both had not expired), Immigration would definitely be forced into their creative mode.

I guess a good rule of thumb would be, don't get your re-entry permit until before your last travel period before visa expiration -- and you'll be out of Thailand when it expires.

A re-entry permit does not cancel a visa. You should not have any problem using a valid visa to enter the country with or without a re-entry permit stamp in your passport.

Ok, I've never seen a definitive ruling one way or the other on this. I guess the example I remember was just another case of an Immigration officer not knowing the rules -- and upon seeing a valid re-entry stamp and a valid permitted to stay stamp, stamped the person in as he always had done, with the same permitted to stay period.

The example was on this forum, but my searching can't find it. Apparently, had the poster pushed the issue high enough, he could have had the correct stamp issued, as having to correct the wrong stamp, for various reasons, seems to occur not infrequently.

He said, don't worry, he wouldn't prescribe any of the NSAID drugs that have been recalled (that's the key word here) in the U.S.

In this case, he's right. Celebrex is still being prescribed in the US; it was the similar product Vioxx that was taken off the market.

If they need new wedding photos every year, one day I will run out of new wedding photos and then what?

Adobe Photoshop

Moot, indeed, for the OP.

But just pointing out the hazard of getting a re-entry permit too early in the lifetime of one's multi entry Non Imm O-A visa -- as I remember a few years back one poster's amazement at not getting another 12-month stamp on his still-valid O-A visa. He had read this forum and took to heart the advice about re-entry permits -- he just hadn't read the fine print about its first use being 'after your visa expires.'

You actually have to do a border run before Aug 12th to get another 12 months. Then you can leave and use the Re Entry Permit.

I may have missed this in all the dialogue....but by already getting a re-entry permit, he has effectively cancelled his visa. So, the option to leave and enter Thailand before Aug 12th -- and get a new one-year permitted to stay stamp -- is, I believe, dead.

As pointed out, where it calls for 'visa number' on your arrival card, you instead write your re-entry permit number, which has effectively replaced your visa. Yes, you could write your visa number -- and hope Immigration doesn't see the glaring re-entry permit. But this is questionable.

My understanding is, now your re-entry permit has cemented in place your last valid permitted to stay stamp -- and cancelled your multiple entry Non Imm O-A visa. This discussion came up a year or so ago when discussing multiple entry Non Imm O-A visas.

This is moot, of course, if he hadn't planned to leave and return to Thailand before Aug 12th.....

One thing I am not sure about is whether they will require another embassy letter for retirement extension application.

Wouldn't that be the height of bureaucratic incompetence -- so be prepared. The 7-day turnaround is already a new twist.....

But, I have a feeling you'll get it all when you return next week. Anyway, good luck.

Out of curiosity, did you have 21 days remaining on your 30-day entry permit?

As you met the requirements for retirement extension, it will be interesting to see whether or not you get both the Non Imm O and the extension when you return in a week.....

Bangkok Bank's internet banking would allow you link all your accounts together, to include your single account, your joint account (assuming that still exists), and/or a single account in your wife's name. Then, when you die, just have her log onto your Bangkok Bank internet banking account and, with a few key strokes, transfer the money out of your account to one with her name on it. Simpler -- and safer -- than draining with an ATM card.

And, I don't think this would be illegal. The internet account -- at least in our experience -- is in both our names, although some accounts within it are in our individual names. Nevertheless, only one of us is required to authorize a transfer between any and all of these accounts.

I had the following exp with a non Im -o retirement extension

I'm actually surprised more folks here on extensions haven't been denied boarding, as the agent looking for a visa only finds one that has expired -- and is probably underwhelmed by your explanation of why that is, and what your latest extension and re-entry stamps mean.

Do you think everything will be fine if we just pay for a Tourist visa? If so, is it silly to book it 3 months in advance? Should we wait til a little bit sooner?

As discussed, the problem can be trying to enter Thailand on a 30-day visa waiver without an onward ticket. This is not your situation, as you're getting a Tourist Visa.

The only booking implication related to Thai bureaucracy is the requirement by some consulates to see your travel ticket(s) before issuing a Tourist Visa. And, a single entry Tourist Visa has to be used within 3-months of issue date (which you can't request to be post-dated). So, plan accordingly.

Did you travel without a visa and with a one-way ticket without confirmed onward flight out of Thailand?

Strictly a one-way ticket. And no other onward tickets.

I had a valid visa, but the point is, they had no way of knowing this, as they didn't ask for any visa info when I checked in on-line; nor did they ever inspect my passport. As they told me, if they needed to see a visa -- or an onward ticket -- I would have been flagged to see an agent before receiving my boarding pass.

Kinda doubtful United's procedure is only for electronic check-ins...and something different would materialize with a face-to-face check-in. But, who knows. They *did* ask to see a visa a few years back -- in the days before electronic check-in (you can check-in at the airport too, using one of their kiosks vice an agent).

I am here on a MULTIPLE ENTRY NON-IMMIGRANT O-A VISA "Admitted Until" 08 May 2009.

For this situation, the relevant date is: which date comes first, the May 8th "admitted until" date; or the visa expiration date? The earlier of the two is the date before which you'll have to do your 'out and in.'

After your visa expires (one year, less a day, from its issue date), you'll no longer be able to enter Thailand and receive a "one year stamp." So, say the visa expiration date is in June, you may be looking at two trips: one before May 8th -- and one in June to get your last "one year" stamp, thus maximizing the multi entry value of the O-A visa.

I arrived yesterday on the 30 day exemption, with a one way ticket. No problem, wasn't even questioned at immigration.

I think this may be becoming the norm.... maybe for economic reasons (see below).

I flew from the States to Thailand 3 weeks ago on United. For the first time, I ckecked in on-line and got my boarding pass. I had to type in my passport and reservation data, of course -- but no where was there anything asked about visa information. But the boarding pass came back with "documents checked" on it. So, United's check-in software only cared that "valid passport" and "going to Thailand" closed the loop.

Out of curiosity, when I went to the airport the next day, I asked an agent what would have happened if the country I was flying to required a visa? Oh, my boarding pass (and computerized passenger record) would be flagged with a "see agent," where they would then check for a visa.

Ok, so Thailand doesn't require a visa for US passport holders; requiring an onward ticket is kind of a nebulous requirement, probably one that wouldn't get an airline in trouble if ignored, which Immigration apparently does routinely; and airlines save money the fewer times a customer service rep has to interact with passengers. So, scotch the human interface requirement to check for either a visa, or an onward ticket -- it will make no difference, and the check-in procedure will be streamlined and cost effective. At least with United Airlines.....

Ironically, it is now the Thai consulates that want to see an onward ticket -- and proof of money in the bank --before they'll issue a Tourist Visa (even the Houston honorary consulate now posts this requirement). So, things may have reversed about the ease of getting a Non Imm O visa in Thailand: it may now be more of a hassle to get a Tourist Visa, and converting to a Non Imm O with a Form TM86 -- than just entering on a visa exempt stamp -- and getting your Non Imm O with a Form TM87.

They both said that I must extend 30 days before the EXPIRY date and not the current 'permitted to stay until' date........Has anyone actually applied for/have first hand knowledge of an extension long before the visa expires?

EXPIRY date of what? Visa expiration dates are irrelevant. Only relevant is the expiration date of your 'extension of/permitted to stay stamp.

Most here have visas that expired mucho years ago. So, the only expiration date you worry about is the expiration date of your last 'extension of stay' stamp. Officially, annual renewal of this stamp is to take place 30 days before expiration. However, if this would be problematic, many reports have shown Immigration will allow earlier renewal if you can show a reasonable excuse (like, an airline ticket showing you'll be out of the country). I've never seen *any* report saying renewals have been denied because 'you're too close to expiration date.'

If you're hearing that "two of Thailand's top law firms" are saying you must renew at least 30 days before expiration of your 'extension of stay,' you're hearing wrong -- or this new rule would have hit the news big time.

And, the same criteria applies even if this is your initial application for an extension of stay. In this case, it is based on the expiration of your 'permitted to stay' stamp -- but not the expiration of your visa (which, again, is irrelevant).

I forgot to mention that I would only mail the return without any payment since I pay the taxes I owe electronically via EFTPS.

Did you annotate somehow the Form 1040 to show payment was via EFTPS? Or did you just assume that, when they didn't find a check included, their data base would automatically search for an EFTPS payment?

What about if you buy with plastic (credit or debit card)? I've never tried it over here, but I thought Visa and MC stood behind you on defective purchases with their cards. Yeah, they want you to first try and settle it with the merchant. But, if no joy, they'll withhold payment, using their 'extra' guarantee in your favor -- part of the contract for using their card.

I'm pretty sure my US bank-issued MC would support payment withholding if I had a conflict with a merchant over here. Now, with a Thai bank credit/debit card -- I don't know... But it would seem Visa and MC, being international, would have similar worldwide policies. And I would hope so -- as I would really enjoy seeing the expression on Khun Dickweed's face when, after a brief discourse, I say: 'Ok, I'll have Visa withhold payment.'

can i just apply for a non-immigrant multi entry visa,and re apply for retirement status once i return and have the funds in the thai bank for at least 2 months.

Sure. My only concern would be some Immigrant officer saying the '2 month' rule only applies to newbies -- and since you've been here before on a 12-month retirement gig (either O-A or extension off a Non Imm visa), then you'll need to have 3 months in the bank. Yeah, it's a brand new Non Imm O you're extending off of -- but still, he might question your newbie virginity....

Just a guess -- and a heads-up.

And, if for sure you're going for the extension (and qualify) during your first 90-day return to Thailand, no need to waste the extra money for a multi entry Non Imm O visa -- single will do. (Unless you're uncertain of your return date, as a single entry is only valid for 3-months, vice the one year for the multi entry variant.)

I only do about 3 transfers a year so I don't mind paying for the speed and convenience.

I hear ya. I too usually use Swift transfers, as they are, as you say, considerably faster than the ACH variety. Plus, I send fairly larger amounts, so the fixed fee is nicely amortized. But having the ACH option is a nice fallback.

Yes, the suffix of one's Non Imm visa shouldn't matter (although I'm sure in some Immigration officers' reasoning, retirement extensions are only born from Non Imm O visas, as that's all they see). But this is a curious case. The OP is in a situation where he doesn't meet the requirement for a retirement extension (i.e., money not in the bank for 60 days) -- plus his Non Imm B visa and/or permission to stay will run out in 15 days. And if it's 15 days remaining on his permission of stay, then, he's probably up &lt;deleted&gt; creek.

But say he had 21 days (or Immigration bent the rules by 6 days). Why couldn't he go to Immigration with his brand new passbook of deposited 800k and a Form TM86 to change his visa to a Non Imm O. There's nothing on the TM86 that precludes this, at least from how I read it. Now, he wouldn't have to leave Thailand, but instead would get a Non Imm O visa, an associated new 90 day permission of stay stamp, and the requisite time to season his required money. Again, the only buggaboo in this scenario, as I see it, is the lack of 21 days. In fact, it's so simple -- again assuming there were 21 days remaining -- that no way it could work. Sigh.

The only wrinkle I see with the 'two step' procedure is this from the OP:

Present: Non-Immigrant B -expires in 15 days

If he actually means his "permission to stay" stamp runs out in 15 days, then, yes, this could be problematic, as '21 days remaining' seems to be enforced for in-country 'change of visa' (Form TM86) or in-country 'application for visa' (Form TM87).

Otherwise, it would seem fairly straightforward for someone going from 'working' to 'retirement' to be able to go the 'two step' procedure, first changing from Non Imm 'B' to Non Imm 'O' via the TM86 route (the TM86 is usually used for a change from Tourist to Non Imm O visa, but there is nothing on the form, which is entitled "Application for Change of Visa," that might preclude changing from a Non Imm B to a Non Imm O).

But, even with only 15 days left on permission of stay, it's 'always worth a try,' as Mario points out.

The transfer is a swift transfer direct from my Chase account to my SCB account.

Nice that this can all be initiated via the internet. But those $40 wire fees get onerous, particularly for fairly small amounts of transfer. Bangkok Bank allows EFTs, using its New York branch, charging no more than $10 for a transfer of $50,000 or less.

If you had a Bangkok Bank account, I would imagine your Chase account could set this up on-line -- as it would be the same as setting up a transfer agreement between Chase and another US financial institution. At least this is how it worked for me with my USAA Federal Savings Bank account. However, folks with accounts at Bank of America have reported problems, so I don't know which camp Chase is in.

Here's a line to the Bangkok Bank website that explains this: Here

Bullshit.

As long as you are legit, you can do it both ways. Any way, including Thai banks. I do that.

You do this within the Automated Clearing House (ACH) system? This is a US-only system, and thus why it's not open to two-way international transfers -- as explained by the quote from the Bangkok Bank website.

I'm aware that EFT transfers are easier between European and Thai banks.... But we're talking ACH transfers here. Please provide the US and Thai banks -- and the network -- that you "do that" with. I seriously doubt it's using the ACH system -- but I've been wrong before.

Just go online and transfer from USAA to your BangKoK account number at Bangkok Bank of New York. The swift code or r/t number is available on their website. It's a local transfer - no fees, no problems. It's just as if you deposited cash in Bangkok, Chiang Mai, etc. Funds available in about 2-3 days, onshore exchange rate. All good.

Easy to set up with USAA -- just as easy as setting up electronic funds transfer (EFT) between USAA and another US financial institution. The only difference is, since you can only send one way (States to Thailand), the EFT with Bangkok Bank is set up one-way only. (This is all done with no extra jinking required from you.)

Note: Bank of America customers have had problems using similar EFT set-ups, probably because of running afoul of the following warning from Bangkok Bank: "Important Note: You cannot transfer funds from Bangkok Bank’s account in Thailand to your account with banks or online payment service providers in the US via Bangkok Bank's New York branch and the ACH system. If you initiate direct debit or ACH debit transactions to Bangkok Bank's New York branch, banks in the US and online payment service providers may suspend your account."

EFT transfers are slower than wire (SWIFT) transfers, but are certainly cheaper than the flat $35 rate USAA charges for wire transfers. For amounts less than $50, it's free; $51-100, $3 fee; $100-2000, $5 fee; $2000-50,000, $10 fee; and above $50,000, $20 fee. Both methods have a .25% fee at the receiving end, at least 200 baht, but no more than 500 baht.

If your wire transfers are usually to the same account, USAA has a neat system where you setup a "template" with all the pertinent data -- except amount to be sent. Then, when you want to wire money (again, maybe because it's faster than ACH transfers), you call the toll free number from Thailand, answer the authentication questions, and give the template name and amount to send. That's it.

USAA's MasterCard credit card is also a good deal to use in Thailand, as they only charge the 1% foreign transaction fee (while most today add another 2% or more to this fee), plus there's a 1% rebate on all purchases, effectively cancelling the foreign transaction fee. This is all off the interbank exchange rate, which is normally a few satang better than the TT rate (the rate you get when you EFT or wire).

Their ATM cards also charge the 1% foreign transaction fee (but no flat fee, plus any flat fee at receiving end is reimbursed). However, there is another .8% fee charged, which USAA says is related to the Cirrus Network. Since ATM fees are nearly impossible to completely get your arms around, comparing ATM card fees often requires using different cards in the same machine at about the same time. When I did this with SunTrust's ATM card, USAA did considerably better. But compared to others, I don't know.