JimGant

That 1% doesn't actually seem to be advertised anywhere, or at least not to the consumer.

Googling on "foreign transaction fees" gives several examples -- and the 1% fee stands out. Example:

Visa and MasterCard each charge 1 percent of purchases as a foreign transaction fee. Most banks add an additional 1 percent or 2 percent, leaving your total fee at 2 percent or 3 percent. For example, Bank of America charges a 2 percent foreign transaction fee, and Visa and MasterCard charge 1 percent. Therefore, if you use your Bank of America-issued Visa abroad, you would be charged a total fee of 3 percent of your purchases (comprised of a 2 percent Bank of America fee and a 1 percent Visa fee).

Yes, most emphasize the credit/debit aspect of riding the Visa/Cirrus networks -- but selling cash via ATM machines also rides the Visa/Cirrus networks -- and thereby subject to the 1% fee.

How does that 1% off the Interbank rate for ATM withdrawals compare to what you'd get from a Thai Bank on an electronic transfer of funds from the US? Would the Thai bank give you a rate greater than 99.0% of the Interbank Rate?

Depends on the fee structure -- and amounts obtained. SWIFT wire transfers -- and EFT/ACH transfers -- use the Telex (TT) rate, which is usually 10-15 satang less favorable than the Interbank Rate. Example: the 9 April BOT website shows TT rates for US$ at 35.285, while the Interbank Rate is 35.42. All methods of transfer normally have fees. And this is where you need to set up a spreadsheet to compare. Wire fees are the biggest cost -- $35 with my USAA account -- but the more sent, the less cost per unit. And on the Thai end, there is a 200-500 baht charge for wire (and EFT/ACH) transactions, where, until April 17, there were no fees on the Thai side for ATM transactions (for most Thai banks). Anyway, when you crank in all the fees, I found that SWIFTing over $7000 would get me over the break even point with going ATM; and somewhat less than that for EFT/ACHing would reach the cost break even point. The latter method, however, is the slowest (several days) -- while ATM is, of course, instantaneous (but restricted on amount). All things to consider.

Overall, I had a fun spreadsheet excercise, but with the only conclusion being: use SWIFT when a large purchase looms. But for day to day, I still use my US savings account for ATMs -- which allows me to get 25000bt per trip to the BB ATM machine. Whether I'd be better off using the BB ATM card -- and preloading via wire my BB account -- maybe. But not really worth the thought process -- unless it looks like the dollar will tank. Just too lazy to add in factors such as forgone interest (USAA pays much better than the anemic BB account). Penny *and* pound foolish, maybe.

The odd thing is that in Singapore the banks seems to give you only about 99.5% of the Interbank rate on electronic transfers from the States while you get essentially 100% on ATM transactions, making ATM transactions more economical despite whatever % Cirrus or Plus keep for themselves.

Again, TT vs. Interbank Rate. Why you're getting nearly the full IER for ATM transactions in Singapore (and not in Thailand) is really curious, assuming you've got a good lock on the exchange rates involved. Maybe Singapore bank laws restrict what ATM owners can collect in fees..........(?).

In the case of the Thailand ATM withdrawals, there also are no additional fees going to my Credit Union, but that 1.0% off the Interbank rate must be going to somewhere.

Either to Cirrus or Visa Plus, depending on the network your ATM card is tied to. This is the "advertised" foreign transaction fee charged to your issuing financial institution, and for most, is usually passed on to the cardholder. The way fees are heading, 1% is beginning to sound ok.

Why the difference for Singapore, I don't know. As far as I can tell, Cirrus/Visa don't adjust their foreign transaction percentage country to country...... I do know, however, it's difficult to determine exactly what exchange rate is actually used (and without that, fees are impossible to determine). It usually approximates the IER; but not exactly.

The following explains how Visa determines exchange rates; at least this is for credit/signature debit transactions. For ATM and pin debit transactions, where cash flow is near instantaneous, I'm not so sure they don't use near real-time exchange rates...........But I don't know for sure.

Technically, Visa doesn’t use the interbank rate. For the world’s 25 major trading currencies it uses the average of wholesale market spot rates fixed at 2 p.m. EDT each working day. “The average market spot rate used in the conversion system is always compared with spot rates quoted by the banks, based upon the real-time Reuters money and foreign exchange date transmission service,” he [Visa official] says. “This check is carried out by Visa International to ensure that the rates used in the system are fair to both cardholders and Visa’s members.”

And you can find that figure, for US dollars, HERE I haven't found anything similar for the Cirrus network.

And which IER table to use? For example, OANDA has 35.73 for March 31st, while Bank of Thailand has 35.52. Hmmm.

I have used Wells Fargo Bank since 1990. They charge no monthly fee because all my pensions are deposited directly, electronically. They charge me US$5 at a very favorable exchange rate, for ATM withdrawals

How favorable? Could be Wells Fargo may be waiving all percentage fees, including the Visa Plus 1% foreign transaction fee (they call it the "international service assessement"). See the note next to Wells Fargo in this article: Click Here

Also, note in this article the financial organizations that reimburse the "ATM owner's fee," at least to some extent. My bank (USAA) will reimburse up to $15/mo -- so I should be good for at least 3 reimbursable ATM hits. But, it will be interesting to see how the new 150bt fee shows up -- as a separate line item, converted to dollars? Or just as a further discount to the prevailing exchange rate - in which case, USAA won't be able to figure out how much to reimburse me.....

Unfortunately, you need to be more careful with your math. I underlined your misstake above. The correct equation is: 34.99/35.52 = 0.985 so the fee is really only 1%, not 1.5% as you suggest above.

Not sure I follow...... Your "correct" equation is the same as mine and reflects that you only got 98.5% of the IER. To me, that reflects a 1.5% fee (100% minus 98.5%), not a 1% fee.

...The exchange rate is good IMHO. For example, they withdrew 10,000 baht on March 31 and the amount withdrawn in the US (excluding the fee which usually shows up a day later) was $285.79 which is an exchange rate of 34.99 baht/$. Using the baht exchange rate information from Thai Visa, you will see an exchange rate for that day of 35.185.

Yes, but look at the Thai Visa exchange rates for the days before and after -- it's 35.52 both days, which just happens to also be the BOT interbank exchange rate (IER) for 31 March. So, methinks the TV rate for 31 March is an aberration/mistake.

And it's the IER that comes the closest to the wholesale rate your exchange network (most likely Cirrus or Visa) gets for your transactions. It's not your issuing bank, nor the dispensing bank, that establishes exchange rates, at least when the major exchange networks are involved.

And, yes, Cirrus and Visa charge a (at least) 1% foreign transaction fee, which most issuing banks pass on (one notable exception:Capital One). Many issuing banks add further percentages, plus a fixed per transaction fee for withdrawals at "foreign" ATM machines.

Looking at your numbers, 34.99/35.52 = 98.5, it appears you paid the network foreign transaction fee of 1% -- plus another .5% fee of some form or shape. Not surprising, as my bank (USAA Fed Savings), when I pushed them hard enough for definitive ATM costs, advised that Cirrus had recently added another .8% to their already 1% fee. USAA claimed none of this went to them (sniff), but went to help cover payment to the dispensing (ATM) bank. Well, ok. ATM dispensers have to get paid somehow -- and getting part of the "spread" in percentage form from Visa or Cirrus networks is how it's currently been done. Now, I guess, a fixed fee will further enhance coffers. (Credit charges are a whole different ballgame. Selling marked-up merchandise, and paying 2-3% to the networks -- by the merchant, not consumer -- is a lot different than 'selling' fungible cash at instant exchange rates at ATM machines.)

I only get charge a fixed 1US$ ATM network transaction fee.

Plus, it appears, an additional 1.5% of the prevailing wholesale exchange rate of your network.

But, that's better than many are doing. Yeah, if you wire a substantial amount, you can amortize the stiff wire fee to reflect an insignificant cost. And at some number, the slightly less Telex rate for wires, plus fees, trumps ATM transactions, with their slightly better IER rates, but (sometimes) higher fees.

But, except for when real rip off fees exist -- oftentimes hidden -- it's all kind of a toss up as to which way to go. Wiring money now, if the baht further declines, is not good, and supports using your farang bank account's ATM feature (again, assuming their fee structure is competitive). Strengthening baht? Wire now.

Not really worth worrying about, however, unless you're really counting your nickels. In which case, you're cutting it too close to live comfortably.

The best promotional TG deals used to found at the following website:

TG Promotional Fares

However, the deals found at this particular site ended March 31st. And I haven't seen anything on the Internet that shows they've been continued......

Anybody know if something same or similar is currently available?

Since his Non-Immigrant "O-A" visa was issued by the Thai Embassy in Washington, D.C. it will be a single-entry

DC will issue multi entry O-As, per their website -- and the OP's experience. The LA Consulate's website says single entry, however -- and this seems to be their practice. Don't know about the other MFA consulates in the US (New York and Chicago). The honorary consulates are a mixed bag, with most issuing multi entry O-As -- but at least one (Denver) no longer issuing O-A visas, period (at least per the last report I saw, which, admittedly, is a few years old).

I just received from the Thai embassy in Washington DC a double entry tourist visa.

Were you required to show the following, per their website? Thanx.

- A copy of round-trip ticket or itinerary paid in full

- A copy of recent bank statement or evidence of adequate finance

($500 per person and $1,000 per family)

I don't know of any Embassy that will issue a non immigrant O visa for such reasons. Only when married is the normal policy.

Probably not, at least for 'official' Thai consulates. But some honorary consulates can be accomodating, as the following from a recent thread indicates:

Perth will grant a visa if your are visiting your Thai g/f and you have a photocopy of her ID card or her passport. The following is from Perth consulate info letter.

In cases of visits to “partners” the application must be accompanied by a copy of the partner’s passport or identity card.

The operative word would seem to be "partner," not "g/f." But the end result is very helpful for couples of all persuasions.

then turn left on the iron bridge heading down towards Charoen Prathet Road

Can you do this? I thought the Iron Bridge was one-way, heading east(?). But, then again, maybe I thought this 'cause I've only crossed it in my car heading west......

In Pattaya, there was a press release last year stating they strongly welcome and encourage retirement extensions as early as THREE MONTHS early.

Maybe someone in Pattaya actually stumbled over the economic maxim about "time value of money" : collect it early, earn a few extra satang.......

But, no, probably not -- that satang wouldn't reflect favorably anywhere on current accounts -- or in anyone's pocket. Maybe they just realized it would be an added service to their operation -- without absolutely *no* downside for doing so (and completely unaware of the upside, albeit slight).

Do I detect a trend within the Immigration community? Yeah, right. Community? More like individual empires. Same with MFA Consulates.

I attempted to obtain retirement extension downstairs but my application was rejected again. The reason was lack of original embassy letter. Copy was not acceptable even if original is currently in possession of the Immigration Department as part of the application for non-o filed 7 days ago....The lady was nice and professional but made it very clear her decision is not subject to discussion or any kind of reasoning......

Glad to report that I received retirement extension today with expiration of 1 year and 2 and 1/2 months. Before going to immigration, I obtained second embassy letter.

Well, at least you're over that hurdle -- annual renewals shouldn't be as involved.

But what a **** job. Why the "seven day hiatus" when there's no reason for not getting the conversion and extension the same day, as others have done......And by keeeping your income letter, forcing the time and expense of getting another income letter.

If Immigration really understood what riduculous hoops they were putting you through, I really believe they would have tried to be more efficient. But, a 'systems approach' when inidividual rice bowls are involved can get a little dicey.

Perth will grant a visa if your are visiting your Thai g/f and you have a photocopy of her ID card or her passport. The following is from Perth consulate info letter.

In cases of visits to “partners” the application must be accompanied by a copy of the partner’s passport or identity card.

Talk about 'user friendly,' and creative as well. You gotta love those honorary consulates, manned by your fellow countrymen -- and not Thai bureaucrats.

Having a 'two speed' ACH feature is kinda nice. I only have one ACH option -- and sometimes that can be too slow, warranting using the considerably more expensive (but fast) SWIFT wire option.

But, unlike BofA, my bank is content with one-way ACH service to Thailand. Slow, but sure.

But since I selected the 3 business day vs 1 business day transfer option

Is that '1 business day' option really a wire transfer (with its higher fee)? Almost by definition, the considerably cheaper ACH transfers have a slower transit time than wire transfers.

Thank you for the info. Anyone know where Nok Field is?

You can enter on a tourist visa but you need a round trip ticket for that kind of visa.

Sadly, this is now true. Thai Embassy in DC requires this for everyone (US citizen and other). Consulate in LA says on their website that only non-US citizens need the roundtrip ticket, but in at least one case, they applied this to a US citizen as well.

Now, my favorite honorary consulate (Houston) recently published this instruction:

TOURIST VISA

Purpose of Visit:-

This type of visa is issued to applicants who wish to enter the Kingdom for tourism purposes.

Documents Required:

- Passport or travel document valid for not less than 6 months

- One visa application form completely filled out and signed (signature must match that in

passport).

- Two passport-size photographs (2"x2") (photocopy or photo taken from Photostat will not be

accepted). Photographs must have a light color background with a full- face view of the

person without hat or dark glasses. Photos must be taken within 6 months of application.

- A copy of round-trip tlcket/eticket or itinerary paid in full

- A copy of recent bank statement or evidence of adequate finance

($500 per person and $1,000 per family)

Non -U.S. citizens must also provide the following:

- Copy of permanent resident alien card with employment verification or a copy of valid US

visa with employment verification letter

- If self-employed, copy of business license or business registration indicating the

applicant's name

Knowing Houston, they may just be publishing the requirement as presented to them -- but ignoring it, particularly with mitigating circumstances, like getting a 2 or 3 entry Tourist visa, where travel plans (and related tickets) aren't hard and fast. But, I haven't heard anything one way or the other on this.

I live fairly close to the usual flight routes of the ultralights near Doi Saket. However, for the last month or so, I haven't seen or heard any flights. Yes, the visibility has been crummy for photo shoots -- but certainly not near minimums for visual flight operations.

Are they still in business?

If you use money in the bank, the 60-day permission to stay will not be enough

I thought if you met all the requirements for an extension -- except for the time the money has been in the bank -- Immigration would issue a Non Imm O visa, and you would then need to come back 60 days later to apply for the extension. By then, of course, your money would have been in the bank the required 60 days.

I had thought (never ever assume <slap!>) that if you did use the visa after you (prematurely) got a re-entry permit, that you'd simply need to get a new re-entry permit to keep the new permission date alive...

As Lopburi points out, you can now forget the slap. But you do bring up an interesting question -- would the re-entry permit be invalidated if you re-enter on a valid visa? I would imagine so, since normally its expiration date is the same as the permitted period it's issued to protect. With a new permitted period, the dates don't line up.....

In any event, if the two dates didn't align (but both had not expired), Immigration would definitely be forced into their creative mode.

I guess a good rule of thumb would be, don't get your re-entry permit until before your last travel period before visa expiration -- and you'll be out of Thailand when it expires.

A re-entry permit does not cancel a visa. You should not have any problem using a valid visa to enter the country with or without a re-entry permit stamp in your passport.

Ok, I've never seen a definitive ruling one way or the other on this. I guess the example I remember was just another case of an Immigration officer not knowing the rules -- and upon seeing a valid re-entry stamp and a valid permitted to stay stamp, stamped the person in as he always had done, with the same permitted to stay period.

The example was on this forum, but my searching can't find it. Apparently, had the poster pushed the issue high enough, he could have had the correct stamp issued, as having to correct the wrong stamp, for various reasons, seems to occur not infrequently.

He said, don't worry, he wouldn't prescribe any of the NSAID drugs that have been recalled (that's the key word here) in the U.S.

In this case, he's right. Celebrex is still being prescribed in the US; it was the similar product Vioxx that was taken off the market.

If they need new wedding photos every year, one day I will run out of new wedding photos and then what?

Adobe Photoshop

Moot, indeed, for the OP.

But just pointing out the hazard of getting a re-entry permit too early in the lifetime of one's multi entry Non Imm O-A visa -- as I remember a few years back one poster's amazement at not getting another 12-month stamp on his still-valid O-A visa. He had read this forum and took to heart the advice about re-entry permits -- he just hadn't read the fine print about its first use being 'after your visa expires.'

You actually have to do a border run before Aug 12th to get another 12 months. Then you can leave and use the Re Entry Permit.

I may have missed this in all the dialogue....but by already getting a re-entry permit, he has effectively cancelled his visa. So, the option to leave and enter Thailand before Aug 12th -- and get a new one-year permitted to stay stamp -- is, I believe, dead.

As pointed out, where it calls for 'visa number' on your arrival card, you instead write your re-entry permit number, which has effectively replaced your visa. Yes, you could write your visa number -- and hope Immigration doesn't see the glaring re-entry permit. But this is questionable.

My understanding is, now your re-entry permit has cemented in place your last valid permitted to stay stamp -- and cancelled your multiple entry Non Imm O-A visa. This discussion came up a year or so ago when discussing multiple entry Non Imm O-A visas.

This is moot, of course, if he hadn't planned to leave and return to Thailand before Aug 12th.....