JimGant

Why do you say you can not get an O-A (Retiree) visa in Thailand? I, and many of my friends, applied for and received one while on a 90 day visa.

As said, you can effectively get an O-A visa in Thailand by getting a one-year extension of your Non Imm visa. But this is not strictly getting an "O-A" visa -- strictly, you *can't* get an O-A visa stamp from within Thailand.

The confusion is underwritten by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs' website, where they discuss the O-A visa and provide the following partial misinformation:

Applicant may submit their [O-A] application at the Royal Thai embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General in their home/residence country or at the Office of the Immigration Bureau in Thailand located on Soi Suan Plu, South Sathorn Road, Sathorn District, Bangkok 10120. Tel 0-2287-4948 (direct) or 0-2287-3101 - 10 ext. 2236.

(MFA website:Here)

Hopefully, MFA knows more about its own affairs than it does about those of the Thai Immigration Police.....

Hull's website also mimics the MFA misinformation.

No wonder this confusion keeps cropping up.

If your spouse is under 50, he or she will be considered for a temporary stay under what is known as a Category O visa. This means that your spouse can only stay in Thailand for a three-month period, rather than the one-year period that you will have. This rule is recently imposed and some under-50 spouses are currently in Thailand on longer visas.

Hmmm. I kinda remember a discussion about this, but my search skills can't seem to locate it -- or maybe there wasn't a discussion.....(?). Anyway, is this correct? And if so, where's the definitive guidance? The latest Police Order that would apply, I believe, is 777/2551, para 2.20. But this says nothing about a spouse dependent needing to be over 50 for a long stay -- only a parent dependent of someone here on extension.... If this is true, kinda unfair for retirees with younger non-Thai wives.

If you are living in Thailand on a Non-Imm O-A and wish to travel outside of Thailand, you must have a multiple entry version, or the Non-Imm O-A will be cancelled when you return.

Yeah, but don't try and get a multiple entry O-A from the Los Angeles consulate. They will only allow a single entry O-A visa, as they apparently got miffed about the nearly 2-year possibility of the multiple entry version. Here's a quote from their website:

Purpose of visit: To stay in Thailand for a retirement purpose.(Category “O-A”)

Validity of visa: The validity of visa is 3 months.

Period of stay: Travelers with this type of visa will be permitted to stay in Thailand for a period up to 1 year.

Fee: $ 65 for a single-entry ONLY, no multiple-entry.

But, on the good side, no stated requirement about 'notarization.' The closest they come to that is requiring a 'letter of guarantee' from the bank if going the 800k route.

The year-long extension was then done and was based on the "good until" date of my new arrival stamp, so my new "good until" date is 15 months from the date that all of this was actually conducted on. Can't beat that with a stick.

Now, that's how things should work. If you've got all the i's dotted, and t's crossed, why should you have to come back to Immigration in 60 days to get the final step -- 1-year extension -- processed. Fortunately, some, but not all, Immigration offices seem to be going this route lately.

I recently did so and the result was 27 individually counted rubber stamps that were entered in my passport to document the event.I figured the 3,900 baht total went for ink pads.

For 3900 baht, sounds like you got both a conversion *and* your 12-month extension the same day? If so, nice work. What Immigration office -- and was the 12-month extension dated from the day you got it -- or 3-months down the road, when the Non Imm O and related permitted period would expire? Thanx.

Interestingly, the Thai Consulate LA's website has a subsection under 'tourist visa' for holders of US passports. The only difference is, US passport holders *don't* need to show transportation tickets in and out of Thailand, nor evidence of money in the bank -- as do non-US applicants. I'd confront the LA Consulate as to why they're differentiating from their website. But, you'd probably get some arrogant answer. So, as others have said, just use the mail services of an honorary consulate. Houston, for one, accepts mail ins from anywhere in the US, and usually turns them around in one business day.

(Interestingly, the Thai Embassy in DC *does* require tickets and bankbook for all tourist visa applicants, whether US citizen or not. This is as advertised on their website -- and recently confirmed by a US citizen friend. So, steer clear of LA, DC -- and NY and Chicago. These are the "nonhonorable" ones.)

Letter of Residence

Is that a requirement? Since Immigration issues those letters, wouldn't this be a circle jerk?

The LA Consulate is not the ideal place to get your Non Imm O-A. Unless they've recently changed, they'll only issue you a single entry Non Imm O-A -- thereby preventing you the nearly two years of Immigration-free stay in Thailand that a multiple entry O-A would provide. (This subject has been beaten to death on this forum, so if you're confused, do a simple search for clarification.)

Houston issues multiple entry O-As -- and doesn't insist on notarization (or at least they didn't used to). Give them a ring or email for details. Their mail service is usually within 5 business days.

I have been led to believe that by my making my wife my dependent we only needed one 800,000 Baht deposit for the two of us, is this in fact not true?.

Some Immigration offices used to allow joint accounts for married folks, without doubling the required amount for getting an extension. This was, of course, quite logical in the understood context that 800k sufficed for either one retiree -- or one retiree and his spouse. Lately, however, it appears they're being less lenient in this regard -- although, as always with Immigration, there are probably still exceptions.

I guess the Western concept that a joint account has 'right of survivorship' connotations, thus cutting through the legal crap upon death of one spouse, doesn't quite resonate over here. Maybe because, if the spouse to go first was Thai, all the brothers and sisters would be cut off from sharing in the pile......

However, per the above, the dots don't quite connect if both spouses have four round eyes. But, not many dots connect when it comes to Immigration, logic, and consistency. That's part of the fun of living here.....sometimes.

On december the 18th, I had my visa extended for a further 3 months (ending on March the 27th as shown on the immigration stamp) No problem whatsoever there

Out of curiosity, and presuming you have some kind of Non Imm visa (?), what is a 3-month extension -- and under what criteria? I've heard of 1-year, 30-day,-7-day, and 60-day extensions -- but not '90-day extensions.' (Which, of course, just because I haven't heard of it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.......so please pardon my ignorance) Thanx.

Maybe he wants to buy the Detroit Lions? Fellow losers that they are........

Which Immigration office did you use?

Moderator(s) for this subforum:

The above gem by WPCOE ("The Express Lane to a Retirement Extension") should be pinned. It's up-to-date -- and with his attention, promises to remain so.

If folks read that first, carpal tunnel syndrome by the regulars here might diminish.

Well done, WPCOE.

I also quickly examine the bills at the counter to make sure they have a watermark and are real.

I doubt you'd get phony bills at a bank counter -- or at an ATM attached to a bank -- as these bills are screened somewhere between receipt and reissue within the banking system. But, I guess, a dishonest clerk could swap out good for bad bills.......

Are there bemused looks as you hold the bills up to the light? Or is everyone doing that these days (I havent' been inside my bank in ages, as I only use their ATM machine)?

Good thing I asked the question. I assumed that a 90 day non-O is provided, and this is followed up with a one year non-O. So that means I need to have 400k in the bank 60 days before I apply to change my tourist visa to a non-O.

No, the deposit time requirement is waived -- but not the 400k in the bank -- in order to convert a tourist visa to a Non Imm O visa for the purposes of extension based on marriage. You will then have, in addition to a Non Imm O visa, a new 90-day permitted to stay stamp, during the last 30 days of which you'll return to Immigration to apply for your one-year extension. By then, of course, your 400k will have aged the requisite amount of time to qualify for extension.

If your 400k had already sufficiently aged when you submitted your TM86 for conversion to a Non Imm O visa, you just might have gotten your one year extension the same day. This, at least, has happened at Pattaya -- I'm not sure about elsewhere.

I have deposited 400k in the bank 50 days beforehand, they will consider my one year extension request at a later date (possibly 10 days later?).

As Lite Beer says, -- maybe, depending on the agent. --

1) Submit form TM.86 (Application for Visa Status Alteration) and TM.87 (Application for Visa).

Just the TM.86. The TM.87 would be submitted *if* you were converting from a visa exempt entry stamp to a Non Imm O visa.

What kind of country is this where you don't get the marriage certificate immediately after the marriage registration?

One where they can't figure out whether it should be in English or French......

All her legal documents in Thailand such as ID card, driver's license, and Thai passport are all in her maiden name. Should we get these all changed to her married name or does it really matter?

If she plans to travel, and do the dual citizenship jig (recommended for long term stay in Thailand scenarios), whereby she enters Thailand on her Thai passport, and the US on her US passport, she'll need to have just one name on both passports and ticket -- or the discrepancy will be noted, and probably cause a problem.

Re-read Ubonjoe's input again. Staying here on a retirement extension is spades above all the other options. So, coming up with a combo amount should be top priority, as he does, you say, have a pension. Any other cash flow? Already this pension and cash flow reduce the 250k amount you say he needs to withdraw from his bank account. Can he borrow -- or just wait -- until March 2nd, the earliest he can renew his extension?

No, the hassle of trying to get a multiple entry Non Imm O, then, if successful, doing 90 day border runs doesn't sound attractive. And the Non Imm O-A is a nonstarter from a financial standpoint, as already indicated (plus, you normally need to be a citizen or legal resident of the country where you apply for a Non Imm O-A visa).

Immigration told me that the Visa is still valid for travel to Thailand until 29 Nov 2008 since the permission to stay kept the Visa alive

Bad info. Once your visa has expired, you no longer can enter Thailand on it. He got his terminology turned around -- a re-entry permit keeps the permission of stay alive, not "permission of stay keeps the Visa alive." I'm afraid, with an expired visa and no valid re-entry permit, you would have found yourself stamped in with a 30-day visa exempt stamp.

04 NOV 2008: arrival in Thailand. Permission to stay until 03 NOV 2009

Leave in May with a re-entry permit, return the end of Oct 2009, and immediately apply at Immigration for your retirement extension. Begin date -- and annual renewal date -- will then be Nov 3. Or, if returning every Oct doesn't fit, take an out and back trip tomorrow, get a re-entry permit, then Jan will now become your retirement extension begin/renewal month. (Replace "tomorrow" with your date of choice, of course.)

If the immigration office does not accept your application for retirement extension, for your next trip in November 2009 get a single-entry non-O visa or, failing that, a single entry tourist visa.

Which will be good for 30 days and require an immediate application for extension of stay, which will push me up to 90 more days (I think) ( 30 +90 = 120) or March

With a tourist visa, if you apply for a Non Imm O visa immediately after arrival, you'll get a new "admitted until" date 90 days hence, i.e. in this case (arrival in Nov), in Feb. This date will become your retirement extension begin (and renewal) date once you apply for, and receive, your retirement extension. Similarly, entering on a Non Imm O, you'll get a 90-day "admitted until" date, again sometime in Feb, which will become your retirement extension/renewal date.

It's that last "admitted until" date that's the determining factor of your retirement begin -- and subsequent renewal -- date. Under current rules, it will be at least 90 days after your last arrival date (or more, if you convert to a Non Imm O in-country.) Or as much as 365 days with a Non Imm O-A.

UNLESS you game the system with a re-entry permit.

For example, you have a multiple entry Non Imm O-A that's still valid -- and the last "admitted until" date suits your needs for a retirement extension begin/renewal date. But, you plan to travel -- and the next entry to Thailand will give you a new "admitted until" date (one year hence) that doesn't fit the bill for a subsequent retirement begin/renewal date. Solution: get a re-entry permit before you travel. This *should* keep your last 'admitted until' date alive when you next enter Thailand -- and trump the multiple entry feature of your Non Imm O-A.

The above would work for a multiple entry Non Imm O too.

You would think, with all this jockeying for a suitable annual extension date, that Immigration would let you establish an earlier date -- and gladly accept your money early. (Establishing a later date -- and getting your money later -- probably wouldn't play.)

I wonder if anyone's asked.........?

My situation is very similar but with one difference. How is this advice affected if I will travel between Issan and Laos on a regular basis, a few weeks each back and forth? In the future I hope to escape coastal Oregon for five to six months each winter. Thanks for sharing all visa info.

Another take on this....

Per the example with Michigan, where you come in on either a tourist visa or a single entry Non Imm O visa in January, you'll need to get a re-entry permit from Immigration. This will keep your "admitted until" date alive until its expiration in April (again, per the Michigan example). This will allow you to border hop while you wait until 60 days is up, whereupon you can apply for your retirement extension (and, you'll need to apply for another re-entry permit too, as the first one will expire upon receiving your retirement extension).

But January - April for sure; so 4 months.

If this will be your pattern every year, being in Thailand for retirement extension renewal shouldn't be a problem.

Assuming a tourist visa, shortly after arrival in January, go to Immigration to convert to a Non Imm O. You'll get an new "admitted until" stamp 90 days hence. When you subsequently return to Immigration 60 days later to get your retirement extension, this 'admitted unitl' date received in January when you converted will become the date your one-year retirement extension begins -- plus become the date of annual renewal. So, say this date is April 10 (meaning you converted to a Non Imm O Jan 12), every year thereafter you'll need to be in country for renewal between March 11th (30 days before expiration) and April 10th.

If you enter on a Non Imm O visa (an earlier post says you might be able to get one by "sending the kitchen sink" worth of info to the New York Thai Consulate), you'll save one trip to Immigration -- and 2000 baht conversion fee -- but your retirement extension/renewal date will still be sometime in April, depending on which day in January you enter Thailand.

I guess if two trips to Immigration sounds like a hassle, I'd want to try for a Non Imm O while I'm still in the States.

Military ID and orders.

Yep, I don't remember showing any passport as I climbed out the clamshell of the 'silver samlar' at NKP.

But later, after I went on leave, flying civilian (NWA), I remember having to send my passport from NKP to Bangkok to get 'fixed.' No doubt some kind of stamp that extended -- or cancelled -- the arrival stamp I got at Don Muang. Don't have that passport anymore -- but would be curious to see exactly what the 'fix' looked like........

13 MAY 2008: Change of visa to non-O (your application was accepted even though it was not made during the last 30 days of the period of permission to stay). Received new permission to stay for 90 days.

Maestro, believe you're confusing 'when to apply for retirement extension' to when you can convert to a Non Imm O in-country. The only restriction I've seen on the latter is the requirement for '21 days remaining' on 'admitted until' stamp. No restrictions, I believe, on how soon you can apply for a Non Imm O visa in-country.

How do you plan on staying in Thailand for "about 5 months" without doing a visa run if you only have a single entry Non-Immigrant "O" visa? Or are you speculating about a future trip.

One-year extension of stay based on meeting retirement criteria.

I recieved a Non Im O single entry out of NYC,NY with no apparent problem.

What criteria did you use -- and what proof did they require? Just curious to see how NYC's consulate stacks up against the others.

One might interpret this advise to mean sending your passport, using a passport agent or broker, to a Thai embassy outside Thailand to obtain a visa.

Huh? The context is the OP misses the renewal date *because* he's out of Thailand, presumably back in Michigan. I guess he could miss the renewal date *while* in Thailand -- but, I believe, that's quite a stretch to all the realistic possibilities we're discussing here.

I'm trying to determine if Immigrations will still do a conversion to Non-Immigrant O visa with a same-day issuance of the retirement extension (rather than issuing a 90-day visa and telling the applicant to come back) when no money-seasoning is required.

WP, apparently so, per post #9 above (and the link in post #10). Offset had his money seasoned, so he got his conversion to Non Imm O *and* one year retirement extension the same day.

The interesting difference from your experience was: You got a one-day Non Imm O visa -- and your one year extension of stay began the same day. Offset got a 90-day Non Imm O visa -- and his extension of stay will begin 90 days later. So, his 3900 baht got him 15 months vice your 12 months.

Whether it's 12 or 15, just nice to know that it is possible (but maybe not probable) to get a same-day extension if all your financial requirements are in order -- at least in Pattaya.