JimGant

Contacted Star Visa, an LTR certified agent here in Chiang Mai, and asked about how they handled TM95 reporting. Their answer was, they can do the TM95 reporting at CM Immigration, i.e., no need for them to go to Bangkok. So, CM Imm has at least one Imm officer familiar with TM95s. But, I could probably spend the whole day wandering around looking for this individual. So, if nothing's resolved about mail in reporting come this July, guess I'll hire Star Visa, for 1000 baht. At least they know what door to knock on at Imm, plus they're a shorter drive than is Imm (tho' the post office is only a stones throw from my house). Oh well.

Capital improvements raise the basis of your investment (thus lowering the capital gains realized upon sale). And, in the US, your basis for capital assets will be upped to the value on your date of death, for purposes of determining estate taxes. So, where Mike seems to be coming from, is the value of all your assets, for the purpose of this new ruling, will be established as of 31 Dec 2023. Thus, all remittances from that pile of money existing pre 2024 is non assessable (exempt) income. Remittances from cap gains of assets sold post Dec 31 2023 -- will use the basis as of Dec 31 2023 to determine cap gains. Hey, this is all new territory we're crossing. But, this does give you a lot of wiggle room to use, should you need to be creative in determining what's, and what's not, assessable income. For my money, using a Dec 31 2023 value as basis is the way to go. And with all the smoke and fog surrounding this whole new adventure into Thai taxation -- I certainly could make a satisfying argument for what is my basis (not that anyone, realistically, is ever going to question you on this). Self-assessment -- which it certainly will be -- should give you the opportunity to pick the grey area that works in your favor.

So, the Thai fat cat can no longer send overseas income back to Thailand in the following year to avoid taxes. Whadaya gonna do? Well, send 10 million each to your cook, your six maids, your three chauffeurs, your two pool boys, your five gardeners, your ten mia nois -- which, of course, means the wife gets double that of each mia noi, which she legally can do at 20 million baht. Of course, you wink wink, nod nod, and have your fingers crossed when you "gift" these transfers, with the understanding on how it's going to be paid back. Two mia nois skip town with your money? Hey, hit men are cheap in Thailand. Farfetched? Maybe. Maybe not....

I guess stranger things have happened. Shielding $600,000 from all taxation by sending it to your wife as a gift doesn't quite resonate with me; nor does paying only 2.5% vice nearly 35% on $1,200,000. But, maybe I'm applying OECD logic to a non-OECD world.

Uh, that loophole certainly doesn't pass the sniff test.

Wrong. That you characterize the remittance as a "gift" doesn't affect the Thai taxation assessability of that remittance. A remittance to buy a condo, to buy fish sauce, or to be a gift to your lover -- no affect on the assessability of that remittance for income tax purposes.

Your US gift to your wife has no US gift tax obligation. And, it is understood that such monies are after-tax monies (or soon will be, once you pay any taxes in arrears). And, with the prevailing understanding that Thailand holds any income taxed by the home country as tax exempt by Thailand -- then, whether or not this money is sent by you direct to Thailand, or by your wife from her account where you deposited her gift -- there's no assessable income involved. But, as stated ad nauseum, this is all part of the self-assessment of the monies you remit to Thailand, plus the requirement to keep good, defensible records. So, having said all that, there's no need to filter money through a wife's account in the guise of a gift. Yes, if you do, she can easily transfer some of that from her Thai acct. to your Social Security bank account. Or, you could just send that money direct to your Social Security bank account in Thailand, secure in the knowledge that this is not assessable income for Thai tax purposes.

Actually, "taxed at source" is literal, and means taxes withheld by the payer to the payee. Perhaps a better descriptor would be "taxed at entry point." But whatever it's called, there certainly will not be any income taxation on a fungible lump of monies arriving in Thailand. Common sense prevails here.

Let's not confuse income tax with gift tax. A gift tax is a 5% tax on gift amounts exceeding 20M/10M, depending on recipient. But, gifts are all from "after tax" monies, so there's no escaping income tax by calling a remitted amount of money a "gift." If a remitted amount qualifies as assessable income, this assessable amount is not affected by whether or not it is characterized as a "gift." Nice try, however.

But if it is assessable, then taxes, if due, must be paid before the concept of even being a gift takes place. I've kind of skirted over much of this subject, but it sounds like what I'm hearing is that by remitting money to Thailand, and wired directly to someone's account as a gift -- then income taxation can be avoided. No way. Pay whatever income taxes are due, then gift it -- and pay the 5% gift tax on amounts over 20/10k, depending on relationship. No free lunch here, folks, by categorizing a remittance to Thailand as a "gift." Nice try, 'tho.

Actually, starting three years or so ago, banks started withholding on all interest paid to accounts with a foreigner's name attached. Thus, I started having withholding on my 800k retirement account, plus on the joint account with my wife ('cause the account had a foreigner's name included). But, no such tax wthheld from my wife's bank accounts, which only had her Thai ID attached, as she hadn't been required to mention her dual citizen US ID. This is blatant discrimination according to the DTA between US and Thailand -- but who's to complain? FBAR reporting is completely divorced from taxable interest on foreign accounts. If you send $10001 to Thailand, then you had over $10000 in the Thai banking system for at least one day -- and you're required to file a FBAR. But if you took that $10001 out of the bank the next day, to buy a car, then you earned no interest on that -- thus no FBAR related earned interest for the year. That you had to report your foreign interest on Schedule B, which also asks about any FBAR filing requirement -- is incidental, as this is just a way for them to have you acknowledge your FBAR filing requirement. Only if you had $400,000 in Thai banks on Dec 31 would you have to file an income related form on your 1040 filing (filing jointly), under FATCA (not FBAR) filing instructions. A situation most of us aren't in... You indicated in an earlier report that you had between 20k and 60k baht of interest from Thai bank accounts. My recommendation would be to let the Thai 15% withholding at source remain, then when you file your US tax return, take this as a tax credit against your US taxes. If above $600 filing jointly, which it sounds like you are, you'll need to file a Form 1116, which is no big deal -- and allows for a carryover, for any disallowed interest. Yes, the rules say, "If you can get the foreign taxes refunded, then you're required to do that." However, if you can't get a Thai TIN, because you don't have a work permit (or whatever) -- and which you need to get a tax refund -- you can just quote denials for TINs from expat forums like this. That some have gotten TINs is nice -- but in the unlikely situation where you get an IRS letter audit -- just quote an expat who had negative results with getting a TIN; you're not required to wear out shoe leather looking for the exception. This sounds a "little over the top." It's not, because you're not evading or avoiding taxes -- you're just paying the taxes to the country who has "first dibs" on them, and avoiding double taxation to a country who demands taxation on all worldwide income. Just wish I had had such ethically pure situations doing taxes for flight crews, and arguing with the IRS that shoes with metal inserts are "uniform only" items, and thus deductible.

Yeah, but then they go on to say that if you do use the mail, just use the SMART guidance, but change the TM91 to TM95 (they're identical, except one says "SMART," the other "Ltr Visa.") Doesn't exactly fill me with confidence that Immigration would accept my mail in... But, I've got a few months to see is someone is successful with this option....

Here's one to puzzle over. The following is what I sent today to the LTR folks: Their answer: I dunno. I did my 90 day reports for years via EMS mail, which to me is the same as registered mail, without problem. I even had the return self addressed envelope as EMS. Their answer that the mail route could "take several months," because it's regular mail, not EMS is nonsensical. Believe they're trying to maintain agent business for the certified agents they've signed up. Just my guess, but otherwise it makes no sense, as SMART visa holders have had no problem with mail annual address notifications, as far as I know. Nevertheless, I sure don't have a warm fuzzy about doing my annual report by mail, at least until I hear some reports of success, which I havent' as of yet, at least on this thread.

Thai tax returns don't even have line items for foreign tax credits. So, even if you paid home country taxes on your benefits, and not on your contributions, how you'd finagle a tax credit into your Thai tax return is still an unknown... But, in the spirit of "no double taxation," I'd just come up with the amount of taxes you paid for 24 years on your contributions. Then, pro rate that amount over all and any future Thai tax obligations. If they never come up with a tax return with line items for credits, well then, just do an excel worksheet of what your Thai taxes would look like, then amortize enough of your 24 year payments to Oz to cover that Thai tax bill, and keep the paperwork in your upper left hand drawer, should the tax police come knocking (neve' hapin). But, no need to file a tax return, since you've eliminated any taxes owed. If they come up with a tax return with credit line items -- well, again amortize that 24 year chunk of change, covering a little more than your Thai tax bill (exact amount would look suspicious). Again, don't file -- no taxes owed, no fines assessed, no jail time. Easy. Anyway, nothing nefarious about this. You paid one country the taxes, the other country gives you a credit for that. No tax cheating (but maybe slightly in disaccord with the DTA, where Thailand, not Australia, issues the credit. Nevermind.) You're 100% OK in the integrity block; but maybe a little wobbly in the execution mechanics. Just keep good notes on all this math. Now, if Immigration asks for a tax return for future retirement extensions - come back to this forum and we'll kick the can down the soi a little further.....

Yeah, but the monies remitted are pre 2024, so they are not assessable/taxable as income. That you have to pay a purchase tax to the land office is a completely different matter.

What of it? I wire funds from a savings account originally funded 11 years ago, and containing more than enough for any future wires to Thailand. My Wise wires to Thailand go from this fund, thus it's all from pre 2024 income, and thus exempt from Thai taxation. But, if I put my Air Force retirement checks and Social Security checks into a new checking account -- and Wise transfer from that? Again, it's all tax exempt per the DTA. But if that account also had private pension deposits (taxable by Thailand, via the DTA) -- then I'd just say that all remittances from this checking account first came from Air Force pensions and Social Security. Any overage, then, would then tap into that private pension, and thus I would be in the accounting situation of saying that this overage is, yes, assessable (taxable) income for Thai tax purposes. As of right now, I'm in the driver's seat for accounting what monies are from what tranches in the financial accounts from which I wire money to Thailand from. The Thai tax folks are in no position to question the complexion of your remitted income -- that's necessarily up to you, if and when any such income becomes subject to a Thai tax return.

Golly, I hadn't thought of that.

Lemme see..... Yeah, I had to pay 50,000 baht for my LTR visa -- but I saved 10 trips to the Imm office for annual extensions, thus saving 57,000 in fees (1900+3800) x 10, for a profit of 7000 baht, plus savings in time, effort, and gasoline. And saved myself 10 trips to the bank for those required statements. Plus, no more opportunity cost for that mandatory 800k parked in a low interest bank account. Saved 35,000 per year by no longer needing a worthless health insurance policy required for O-A extensions (BoI gladly accepted my Tricare policy, which the O-A folks wouldn't). No more 90 day reports (no big deal, except when the online system crashes). And no investment required -- just needed to flash last year's 1099s to show I earned the required amount of income. And, of course, no worries about Thai taxation, courtesy of a Royal Decree. Thus, I can sit back, have a beer, and chuckle at all the hand wringing on these tax threads. So, I don't believe the LTR visa I got was a "poor value for money scheme."

Not sure where on all these threads to jump in on -- but maybe here's ok. Early in this drill we saw where Thai RD said, "have a DTA and show a tax return from home country -- and you're home free from Thai taxation." I think their original thinking is still in place. Why? Because of the simplicity, and thus no new hires and expenses to deal with tax credits against Thai taxation, whatever. So, if you can show a tax return from your home country -- which has a DTA with Thailand (or maybe even not, as it really doesn't factor in) -- that's it. Show it to Immigration for your annual extension. They don't need to go through the numbers -- that would be nonsensical -- they just need to see a home country tax return, even it it doesn't indicate any taxes being paid (because standard deduction exceeds gross income, etc). Not that they would even notice, nor need to. But, what if you have no home country tax return, because you're one of those lucky ones who haven't had to pay any taxes, to anyone, since retiring here in Thailand? Well, now, without a home country tax return to show, you now have to show a Thai tax return. And this tax return, if you've been honest, may just show taxes owed and paid. Or maybe not -- Immigration won't care -- they're just interested in the fact that you can produce a Thai tax return, in the absence of a home country tax return. Just another requirement, on top of a bank statement, TM30, whatever. No real additional cost to Immigration's overhead -- just the need to produce either a home country tax return, or a Thai tax return -- one more block for Immigration to check. Anyway, seems logical to me. For those of us paying home country taxes, I guess (as a Yank), I'll just need to flash my 1040 return to Immigration. No home country tax return? -- well, best learn how to file a Thai tax return -- and welcome to the world of having to pay someone taxes. Fair is fair.

Uh, this doesn't track with most DTAs. Take the US-Thai DTA. Private pensions are exclusively taxable by Thailand, the country of residence. That the US also taxes these pensions, as secondary taxation authority, means that, in the interest of avoiding double taxation, the US has to absorb a Thai taxation credit. As such, the US may realize no taxes, should the Thai credits exceed the US tax bill. And Thailand, as exclusive taxation authority, gets to keep the whole tax collection, without any offset from US tax credits. Thus, to say that all Thai taxation will be offset by taxes paid to the home country on this income -- in all situations -- is pure baloney. Thailand, if they have any gumption, will apply the DTA to their benefit, and apply full taxation to those monies indicated by the DTA -- and provide a tax credit for this full taxation to the home country. How this will work out in practice, I don't know. Amended tax returns, maybe, to slip that Thai tax credit into home country taxation? I just know Thailand probably will not give up taxes by absorbing tax credits that the DTA says should go the other way. Whatever. For most of us, this just means our total tax bill will be the same, only, if Thailand is smart, they'll monitor what's due them via the DTAs. And tax appropriately.

My wife's bank accounts don't have any withholding, since they're well short of the 20000 baht in interest that the Code then requires withholding of everyone -- plus her accounts are only registered with her Thai ID -- no US dual citizen connection. Now mine, of course, are registered with a US connection, thus a 15% withholding. Here's what the US-Thai DTA says about non-discrimination: Hmmmm. Already a foot in the door in thwarting treaty language.

Actually, Required Minimum Distributions (RMD) now begin at age 73. And, the money in your 401k account is not "deferred income," -- it's earned income in the year paid, with deferred taxation. Thus, all that money paid into your 401k account pre 2024 is exempt from Thai taxation. But, of course, like all worldwide income, it is taxable by the US. If you take an RMD in 2024, and then remit it to Thailand -- per the DTA, Thailand has exclusive taxation rights on that RMD. But the US also gets to tax it, due to the treaty's saving clause that trumps all DTA language. But here, as Thailand has primary/exclusionary taxation rights -- they get to keep all the taxation, and the US only keeps what's left after applying the Thai taxation credits. Sounds fair to me -- country where I live gets to use my taxes to their and my benefit.

Cost of property, plus subsequent capital improvements, certainly aren't income. Profit on the sale (cap gains) would be subject to taxation -- but not double taxation.

No!!!!

That's the biggest load of malarkey ever presented on these threads. Sadly, it will be gobbled up by the non critical thinkers -- kinda a MAGA moment in a foreign country. Jeez.